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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 8:55:41 GMT -6
Oh I see what you mean mike . Need to chew on that a little. |
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Post by mike on Sept 11, 2017 8:57:54 GMT -6
Oh I see what you mean mike . Need to chew on that a little. Cool once you figure it out please explain it to me   |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 8:58:20 GMT -6
@stephan MissusMack08 has a detailed summary in the "Gods Roadmap to the end" thread. From the creationism.org article on the Earth/Mars wars: " As to asteroid catastrophism, asteroids typically are .0000000002 of the mass of the Earth; about one twentieth of a billionth of the mass of the Earth. Such masses can create surface craters of various sizes. But a single asteroid collision with the Earth cannot create a spin axis shift, an orbital shift, a geomagnetic field dynamo (or generator), a fragmentation (icy or rocky), or a paleomagnetic polarity reversal, much less sudden crustal tears and up thrusts, a hemispheric sized flash flood and sudden sedimentary strata." Just to further comment on this...I dont think the scripture means cutting short as to shortening the days from 24 hrs to 16 hrs. The Greek work in Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.Strongs - 2856. koloboó - to curtail - I cut short, shorten, abbreviate But rather shorten the time, as in from 7 years to 3.5. Not saying the Trib will be shortened in half, but could shortening the days support his theory of the Lord returning Mid-trib?? Havent thought that out much but figured I'd bring it up here for discussion. So what does asteroid mean? Just a random rock floating in space? Or can it be debris from another planet? And if it's debris from another planet, does it follow the same rules as that of an asteroid? As in size/mass compared to earth. |
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Post by mike on Sept 11, 2017 9:09:48 GMT -6
MissusMack08 from what i've read so far in these articles, the largest of the asteroids that crashed into Mars was roughly the size of Ceres, which is about 600 miles in daimeter. So pretty big! @stephan , again you may have better information on this. I'm scanning through the article now to see exactly what mass the earth would have to gain in order to change orbit or rotation, but i think it would be even larger than Ceres to physically move the earth to a faster rotation or orbit. EDIT - it is estimated that the rocks in the asteroid belt are less dense than earth. Earth is the most dense of the planets
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 9:12:00 GMT -6
I don't know how much I buy his theory that there will be no mortals left alive on earth after the mid point, when, according to his theory, Jesus returns, the big "asteroid" from the collision between Jupiter and whatever occurs, and the AC proclaims himself God. It does say in Revelation, the martyrs under the throne are told to wait until the number of their brethren killed as they were is complete, but how do we know there are NO mortal survivors evading capture by the AC out in the world? Who exactly makes up "the nations" of the Millenium (specifically Egypt is named) who are supposed to go up to worship the Lord and keep the feast of Tabernacles? Why are the leaves of the tree of life needed to heal "the nations" if there are not any nation of mortals other than Israel?
The point I started out trying to make, is Mr. Prinsloo is suggesting that there is only the remnant of Israel left at the mid-point, so the "no flesh would be saved" would have to be referring to them, except they are being supernaturally protected by God, possibly by Jesus himself and us. Sooo, God isn't able to supernaturally continue to protect Israel unless He shortens the days? That doesn't make sense. It must be referring to "other" flesh in the world, not Israel. If that's the case, then the enormous pyroclastic, earth destroying asteroid and judgments cannot occur. They cannot be THAT severe or the "other" flesh would not be saved. I think there are some definite discrepancies in his theory here.
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 11, 2017 10:18:52 GMT -6
I think it means the hours in the days are shortened, but the amount of days will remain the same according to the day counts (sundown to sundown, even though it's only 16 hours). So still 7 years worth of "days," however long the actual days are. With this kind of change, people are going to be messed up with their wake/sleep cycles. I could see them getting confused and miscounting especially if something else obscures the sun and light for multiple days. I think this is where the texts of Jesus saying, "if they say he is in the wilderness, do not go out..." etc and possibly the "no man knows the day or the hour" type verses may come into play. Especially, if the AC tries to "change laws and times." I bet there's going to be a LOT of confusion about the days. My problem with this possibility (and I'm certainly not denying the possibility of what you've said!) is that we see so many links to the appointed times in the stars and planets that move forward from 9/23/17 on through to 2024 with the return of Jesus at Armageddon then. However, I'm open to anything that would explain things satisfactorily.  |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 11, 2017 10:33:46 GMT -6
Also, MissusMack, the leaves for the healing of the nations is not in the Millennial Kingdom specifically, but in the New Jerusalem and eternal state, which comes later, after the Great White Throne Judgment. This is mentioned in Revelation 22 at the time of the very end. Timeline as I understand it: Creation Fall of man Flood of Noah Tower of Babel dispersion of the nations Calling of Abraham Consecration of Israel at the Mosaic Covenant (c. 1400bc) Establishment of the throne of David (c. 1000 bc) Destruction of Jerusalem Birth of Christ (c. 1BC) Death, burial, resurrection, ascension of Christ, conception of the church at Pentecost (c. 33AD +/-) The church age (c.33AD-2017) You are here (2017)The Lord catches us up (Rapture) (evidently) 2017 Tribulation (c.2017-2024 AD) Armageddon, return of the Lord Jesus and we the saints, establishment of the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ (evidently) 2024 AD Millennial Kingdom of Yeshua Jesus Christ c.2024-3024 AD Satan loosed for a brief time and vanquished (evidently) 3024 - ? AD Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20) Destruction of old heaven and earth, creation of new heavens and earth (Revelation 21) New Jerusalem comes down and the eternal state of bliss begins (Rev. 21-22) The eternal state with the New Jerusalem (from that point until the rest of forever). |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 10:39:07 GMT -6
I think it means the hours in the days are shortened, but the amount of days will remain the same according to the day counts (sundown to sundown, even though it's only 16 hours). So still 7 years worth of "days," however long the actual days are. With this kind of change, people are going to be messed up with their wake/sleep cycles. I could see them getting confused and miscounting especially if something else obscures the sun and light for multiple days. I think this is where the texts of Jesus saying, "if they say he is in the wilderness, do not go out..." etc and possibly the "no man knows the day or the hour" type verses may come into play. Especially, if the AC tries to "change laws and times." I bet there's going to be a LOT of confusion about the days. My problem with this possibility (and I'm certainly not denying the possibility of what you've said!) is that we see so many links to the appointed times in the stars and planets that move forward from 9/23/17 on through to 2024 with the return of Jesus at Armageddon then. However, I'm open to anything that would explain things satisfactorily. But what if people can't see the stars? Or have access to computer/internet etc to be able to see it there? |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 11:14:12 GMT -6
Also, MissusMack, the leaves for the healing of the nations is not in the Millennial Kingdom specifically, but in the New Jerusalem and eternal state, which comes later, after the Great White Throne Judgment. This is mentioned in Revelation 22 at the time of the very end. Timeline as I understand it: Creation Fall of man Flood of Noah Tower of Babel dispersion of the nations Calling of Abraham Consecration of Israel at the Mosaic Covenant (c. 1400bc) Establishment of the throne of David (c. 1000 bc) Destruction of Jerusalem Birth of Christ (c. 1BC) Death, burial, resurrection, ascension of Christ, conception of the church at Pentecost (c. 33AD +/-) The church age (c.33AD-2017) You are here (2017)The Lord catches us up (Rapture) (evidently) 2017 Tribulation (c.2017-2024 AD) Armageddon, return of the Lord Jesus and we the saints, establishment of the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ (evidently) 2024 AD Millennial Kingdom of Yeshua Jesus Christ c.2024-3024 AD Satan loosed for a brief time and vanquished (evidently) 3024 - ? AD Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20) Destruction of old heaven and earth, creation of new heavens and earth (Revelation 21) New Jerusalem comes down and the eternal state of bliss begins (Rev. 21-22) The eternal state with the New Jerusalem (from that point until the rest of forever). Are you sure? 😉 (Being "devil's" advocate... I really dislike this phrase...) Revelation has proved to not be as chronological as assumed. Why does it say that nothing defiled can enter the New Jerusalem, if there is nothing around that COULD defile it? But supposedly God has made an end of sin at this point? And then this verse: Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. I'm really wanting to discuss the possibility that the Great White Throne Judgment occurs at the beginning of the Millenium and the new heavens and new earth is created for the Millenium, not after. (This is another of Mr. Prinsloo's assertions). Problems I see for against: Rev 20:5 - But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:11-13 - Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[fn] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. So it sounds like the dead are not judged and the Great white throne judgment is AFTER the 1000 years. Also, Ezekiel describes the new temple, but the New Jerusalem doesn't have a temple. But there are issues with when does God create new heavens and new earth? Will Jesus reuse the earth after nuclear war and asteroid events and all the destruction that will occur during the Trib? Isa 24:19-20 The earth is violently broken, The earth is split open, The earth is shaken exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, And shall totter like a hut; Its transgression shall be heavy upon it, And it will fall, and not rise again. Unless the above verse happens during the final Gog and Magog war, then how do we reconcile this? the current conception is that Jesus will reign on the current earth and we will all be cleaning it up after the incredible devastation that the 70th week entails. There will still be the sea. During the Millenium we get it all cleaned up and everybody is farming. But then at the end of the 1000, God destroys it and makes it new. It seems incongruous to me. But it here's a random idea: are all the mortals glorified after Satan is thrown into the lake of fire? Could there still be mortals living during "eternity" with the new Jerusalem. But then, where is the end of sin? |
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Post by mike on Sept 11, 2017 12:16:57 GMT -6
you ask too many questions MissusMack08, just believe it LOL! totally kidding. I do agree with the questions. Perhaps Jaco's timeline has a few flaws but is onto something with the 70th week pause? With the 1000 years in between and the Lord shortening the days it would account for the earth not being completely demolished. Yet after the 1000 yrs. Satan is released to lead the final battle of Armageddon then the earth is destroyed, and the new heaven & earth come along with the white throne judgement? |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 13:33:59 GMT -6
you ask too many questions MissusMack08 , just believe it LOL! totally kidding. I do agree with the questions. Perhaps Jaco's timeline has a few flaws but is onto something with the 70th week pause? With the 1000 years in between and the Lord shortening the days it would account for the earth not being completely demolished. Yet after the 1000 yrs. Satan is released to lead the final battle of Armageddon then the earth is destroyed, and the new heaven & earth come along with the white throne judgement? I suppose if the final Gog and Magog war is even more destructive than what's about to happen... my brain is hurting. |
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Post by kjs on Sept 11, 2017 17:15:49 GMT -6
MissusMack08 said I take your points. I agree with your last position, essentially refuting the partial rapture theory. However, I do think there are a lot of people who "play" Christian. They are not truly saved.
I do not like to “Judge” whether someone is a Christian or is not. No, I do not think everyone who says they are a Christian – are all Christians. That being said, I do believe there will be MANY who are saved and will be raptured – who many point out as being on the “fringes”. There also will be many “SUPER Christians” who will not make it. It is all about what Jesus DID – not about what one may or may not do in Jesus Name. If someone depends on Jesus as being their Savior – they will be there – IF they think they have earned their way – they will be sorely disappointed.
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Post by kjs on Sept 11, 2017 17:18:40 GMT -6
Sept 9, 2017 15:20:50 GMT -4 MissusMack08 said:
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy." (Dan. 9:24)
I think you are a bit confused here.
Jesus has already completed these, possibly the last two (seal up vision and anoint the Most Holy) still has outstanding work – but all the rest has been taken care of. These prophetic words are from God’s point of View (outside time) – sin has ended and all has been reconcilable to God, there is now everlasting righteousness.
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Post by MissusMack08 on Sept 11, 2017 17:56:59 GMT -6
Sept 9, 2017 15:20:50 GMT -4 MissusMack08 said: “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy." (Dan. 9:24) I think you are a bit confused here. Jesus has already completed these, possibly the last two (seal up vision and anoint the Most Holy) still has outstanding work – but all the rest has been taken care of. These prophetic words are from God’s point of View (outside time) – sin has ended and all has been reconcilable to God, there is now everlasting righteousness. I'll go with you on it. So you're saying everything was finished during the first 69 weeks, except the sealing up of vision and prophecy? (Hmmm, interesting that Jesus' death on the cross or His resurrection didn't occur during the 70 weeks. I don't know what, if anything, that means) The 70th week is for that? But what is the vision and prophecy to be sealed up? Is it a specific prophecy (Like Jaco Prinsloo suggests it's the sign of the woman giving birth and the dragon, from Genesis 3:15 and Rev 12) or is it ALL vision and prophecy. If the latter, there is still prophecy to be completed after the 70 weeks are over, if they are over before the Millenium. |
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Post by kjs on Sept 11, 2017 18:30:41 GMT -6
Some believe the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday, whereas others believe the resurrection ended the 69th week.
I could see it argued either way, The great Pause (also know as Age of Grace) is that period of Time we are living in right now, while Israel is still the chosen people they are not the primary focus of God.
During the 70th week, which appears will also be the Tribulation week there will be prophecy through the two witnesses as well as the 144k, which will confirm to Israel they are back in God's favor. I believe Jesus will be anointed just prior to the 1k year reign - and that anointing will be for King of Kings.
There may be another Cannon set up at that point - "a new Bible" if you will that will layout the the 1k reign ( This is speculation on my part) but it fits if one assumes there is still items that to be accomplished and we do not fully understand as of yet... For example people being required to go up to Jerusalem every year!
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