Ezekiel and the fall of Satan--Why is he allowed in Heaven?
Aug 31, 2017 12:16:06 GMT -6
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 31, 2017 12:16:06 GMT -6
High speculation coming your way. Just go with me with it.
Something I've always wondered... why does God allow Satan a place in His council (in His presence) to accuse the brethren night and day if iniquity was already found in Satan? Assuming God doesn't or can't allow iniquity in His presence. Is there any possible way that Satan has NOT technically sinned yet? Like, he deceives by telling partial truths that lead people/angels to jump to iniquitous conclusions (like in the garden), but he doesn't actually sin? Can it be possible? So on earth, there are demons which, in my opinion and experience, are not fallen angels. I suspect like many others that they are the hybrid nephilim souls that died in the flood. Satan was not part of the angels that created them or he'd be locked up in the abyss right now too. So demons are already evil and probably don't take much provoking to mess with humans and lead themalong false doctrines and into sinful lifestyles.
What if... the lamentation for the King of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is mostly prophetic?
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre,
and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 "By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings
That they might gaze at you.
18 "You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.""
What if the only thing in this passage that is historical (already happened) is that he was in the Garden of Eden (this is how we identify him as the serpent, which is later identified as Satan) but the rest of the passage hasn't happened yet, technically? He most definitely hasn't been destroyed forever and people are not currently looking at him in astonishment because he has become a horror. Rather, what if he is still beautiful? God's chosen method of destruction for Satan is linked directly to his vanity (the green and blue verses). The two concepts are so intertwined in this text that I couldn't separate out the green verses—destruction— from the blue verses—vanity—without it looking like a rainbow mess. However he also "trades" in something that is iniquitous. Deception and lies? And is filled with violence.
What if he has deceived other angels by placing doubts in their head about God's love for them and it has to do with US becoming glorified. They haven't sinned physically, but in their heads the seeds of iniquity are there. When Jesus calls us home, glorifies us and places us above the angels, what if this is the straw that breaks the camels back? When we go up, the war starts because those angels feel their place is threatened and Satan leads the charge? And the war, the violence, is the actual iniquity that causes God to cast Satan down to the earth? This would potentially explain Satan "dragging" 1/3 of the stars. Those angels have not sinned yet, but they will, because of Satan's influence.
I know there are potential holes here (I right now in my head have two or three seemingly contradictory instances that would point to Satan having already sinned). And the whole argument is really based on the assumption that God's Holiness wouldn't allow Satan to be in His presence, which could be a faulty assumption. It could be that he has sinned, but God hasn't cast him out yet. It should make for an interesting discussion though
Something I've always wondered... why does God allow Satan a place in His council (in His presence) to accuse the brethren night and day if iniquity was already found in Satan? Assuming God doesn't or can't allow iniquity in His presence. Is there any possible way that Satan has NOT technically sinned yet? Like, he deceives by telling partial truths that lead people/angels to jump to iniquitous conclusions (like in the garden), but he doesn't actually sin? Can it be possible? So on earth, there are demons which, in my opinion and experience, are not fallen angels. I suspect like many others that they are the hybrid nephilim souls that died in the flood. Satan was not part of the angels that created them or he'd be locked up in the abyss right now too. So demons are already evil and probably don't take much provoking to mess with humans and lead themalong false doctrines and into sinful lifestyles.
What if... the lamentation for the King of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is mostly prophetic?
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre,
and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 "By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings
That they might gaze at you.
18 "You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.""
What if the only thing in this passage that is historical (already happened) is that he was in the Garden of Eden (this is how we identify him as the serpent, which is later identified as Satan) but the rest of the passage hasn't happened yet, technically? He most definitely hasn't been destroyed forever and people are not currently looking at him in astonishment because he has become a horror. Rather, what if he is still beautiful? God's chosen method of destruction for Satan is linked directly to his vanity (the green and blue verses). The two concepts are so intertwined in this text that I couldn't separate out the green verses—destruction— from the blue verses—vanity—without it looking like a rainbow mess. However he also "trades" in something that is iniquitous. Deception and lies? And is filled with violence.
What if he has deceived other angels by placing doubts in their head about God's love for them and it has to do with US becoming glorified. They haven't sinned physically, but in their heads the seeds of iniquity are there. When Jesus calls us home, glorifies us and places us above the angels, what if this is the straw that breaks the camels back? When we go up, the war starts because those angels feel their place is threatened and Satan leads the charge? And the war, the violence, is the actual iniquity that causes God to cast Satan down to the earth? This would potentially explain Satan "dragging" 1/3 of the stars. Those angels have not sinned yet, but they will, because of Satan's influence.
I know there are potential holes here (I right now in my head have two or three seemingly contradictory instances that would point to Satan having already sinned). And the whole argument is really based on the assumption that God's Holiness wouldn't allow Satan to be in His presence, which could be a faulty assumption. It could be that he has sinned, but God hasn't cast him out yet. It should make for an interesting discussion though
