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Post by tiffanybw on Aug 10, 2017 11:33:09 GMT -6
Tiffany, I think you're right and I appreciate your post. I have been resistant to the idea that these folks are acting like Pharisees because I always feel like as Christians it is a very serious charge to accuse someone of being like those who received so much scorn in the Bible, and I fear that making that connection could be seen as condemning them. The fact that many of them have said or written so much that I have personally found very valuable in my journey of faith makes it that much harder. That said, there are very good parallels (as you pointed out) to how they reacted to Jesus and how Christian leaders today are reacting to this sign today. I suppose we can point out those similarities while still allowing God to be the ultimate judge of their hearts. The seriousness of making an accusation like that, I agree. It's why I wanted to make sure that I said that I don't know and I am not sure. I still don't know and I'm still not sure. I walk by faith and by guidance of The Holy Spirit. "I" am the only fallible part in that equation, whence, I could be completely wrong. Certainly I do not wish condemnation for any of them, or for anyone; though at times I do have to be honest and admit that it gets to me, and it hurts me, the things they are saying about me and anyone who believes like I do that He is Coming So Soon, maybe even next month. Things everyone say or have said, at some point in time... couldn't even count how many times my flesh has taken over because of how upset they've made me. Justifiably hurt and upset. Me too, I am guilty of upsetting and hurting others who have had very valid reasons for being angry with me. And so, no, I do not know for sure the day or the hour. I'm pretty sure it is NOW! I could be wrong though. All I know is that just like SocialExile just posted over on the other thread Song of Solomon 3 and 5, I want to be watching, waiting, and actively out, about, and seeking Him when He comes. I don't want to be asleep, but my heart is awake... like the virgin described in SoS 5. I'm not claiming to know exactly what that verse means or whom it pertains to, but when I read it, I felt immediately touched by The Holy Spirit and like... "Yes, that is exactly how it is now!" There are so many people who truly do belong to Jesus and their hearts are His. But it is like they are asleep. They are not dead like an unbeliever, not sleeping so soundly that they don't hear it when Jesus comes knocking on the door. They hear it and they love Him. But it's like they kind of have become complacent, so many actual and real "date setters" have come and gone (keeping clear that for me anyway, and I believe for most if not all here on this forum, NO ONE is setting dates), there are so many distractions in and of this world... job, family, bills to pay, things to do, money to make to provide for both essential needs and then also for "entertainment", for "wants". For people who are of higher status, it is even more difficult because there is more distraction... fame, social status, power, control, getting a big head because other's look to you like you are somehow more than human and so before you know it you also start to view yourself that way also... view yourself as somehow "better", and as "knowing it all". Then there is pride, vainness, wealth, and being quite satisfied with all of it, TOO SATISFIED with "the world". So much so that they don't want to think of Jesus coming back because of how great things are going for them down here. That, and the pride thing. If a Christian has become somewhat famous and gained standing in predominantly Christian social circles (sometimes leads also to secular fame such as Rick Warren; not judging him either because I don't know his heart and so is just an example based upon my very human and fallible thoughts); it takes a special and very humble person to be able to deal with all that without it going to one's head. Pride is the reason Satan fell and if one of God's highest ranking angels can fall, just saying that it can happen to anyone. If we've been genuinely saved though, at any point in our lives, I do truly believe that means forever. And so maybe in SoS, it's God telling us that no matter what He will NEVER abandon not even one of His Children. Even if they get so off track and caught up in sin that they pretty much disown Him. Even for those not out and about the city looking for their One True Love, even those who are at home, even those who are in bed with all their clothes off (meaning living in sin) and completely NOT ready for Him... He will still come knocking on their door when He returns. They will take too long and quite bluntly they just won't be ready. But He still cares enough to come knocking on their door. Not only that, but He comes with all of these gifts for them, just like it says in SoS 5:1: I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.So, not only does He come knocking. But while His Bride is running about trying to get herself together (what to do with her coat, what to do with her feet, how can she answer the door in sin like this and with no "oil" in her lamp); while she is doing all this He leaves oil of myrrh, puts it through the hole in her door, so much of it that it is everywhere and her hands and fingers are dripping with it and this myrrh reminds her of her Love (Jesus), however He is gone by the time she answers the door. So she gets herself in order, she goes out looking for Him, she can't find Him because He is gone, the watchmen who were of her Love (Jesus) also gone. However, there are watchmen there, take a guess who they are... satan's people/NWO/anti-Christ. And so they smote her, they basically defile her, rip her veil (maybe this means they either persecute or kill her because when they killed Christ the veil was ripped also). Still though, doesn't matter what they do to her. Because Jesus came to the door, gave her the oil, and her lamp was full again, full of His Holy Spirit, full of love for Him (SocialExile is the entire reason I've just been thinking about all this and what was posted in the thread called BIG NAMES and he connected Chapters 3 and 5 of SoS with the parable of the 10 virgins). The rest of that chapter seems to me to be about her yearning so deeply for Christ. And she will find Him! If she is killed, or if she is still fighting here on earth for the Lord when He comes back. Really, I don't know anything but just that she will find Him. I don't say any of that for certain, like this IS the 100% accurate interpretation. It definitely goes against what I have always *thought*. I could be completely off base. If not that, I'm most definitely likely partially off base. It's not about that though. And that is what all these "big names" such as Svigel and all the rest of them who want to badmouth all of us, name call, advise all Christians to reject us, ban us, shun us; call us date setters and astrologers... just all of that very mean and nasty stuff. They don't understand that we are not doing any of what they are accusing us of. Yet they sit, they judge, they convict us as if it is their role to do so. (I posted in the same thread BIG NAMES 1 Corinthians 4.) They are missing out on so much while those with eyes to see and ears to hear grow closer and closer to our Love. Jesus. Yeshua. Praise His Name! NO ONE and NOTHING will keep me from watching, nor will keep me from seeking, nor will keep me from waiting upon MY LORD! I don't care who you are or what your name is, you are human. The both of us, ALL of us, are brimming with sin and corruption. So argue all you want, condemn me all you want, judge me all you want. I choose Jesus. |
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Post by yardstick on Aug 10, 2017 15:30:19 GMT -6
What bothers me about the other-than-the-9/23-sign prophecy teachers is that for years/decades, they have taught the doctrine of imminency and it's like they've now completely forgotten that doctrine. Where's the excitement that 9/23 *could* mean something? Where's the joyful anticipation of Christ's return? They don't have to embrace the belief that it could be true but why do most of them come across as sarcastic, insulting or down right angry about the subject? I am cautiously excited but if nothing has changed on 9/24, I'll still be excited and anticipating His return. Why don't our teachers share the same feelings?P-R-I-D-E |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 10, 2017 22:50:59 GMT -6
Sadly. Yes.
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Post by socalexile on Aug 10, 2017 23:16:53 GMT -6
Tiffany, I think you're right and I appreciate your post. I have been resistant to the idea that these folks are acting like Pharisees because I always feel like as Christians it is a very serious charge to accuse someone of being like those who received so much scorn in the Bible, and I fear that making that connection could be seen as condemning them. The fact that many of them have said or written so much that I have personally found very valuable in my journey of faith makes it that much harder. That said, there are very good parallels (as you pointed out) to how they reacted to Jesus and how Christian leaders today are reacting to this sign today. I suppose we can point out those similarities while still allowing God to be the ultimate judge of their hearts. The seriousness of making an accusation like that, I agree. It's why I wanted to make sure that I said that I don't know and I am not sure. I still don't know and I'm still not sure. I walk by faith and by guidance of The Holy Spirit. "I" am the only fallible part in that equation, whence, I could be completely wrong. Certainly I do not wish condemnation for any of them, or for anyone; though at times I do have to be honest and admit that it gets to me, and it hurts me, the things they are saying about me and anyone who believes like I do that He is Coming So Soon, maybe even next month. Things everyone say or have said, at some point in time... couldn't even count how many times my flesh has taken over because of how upset they've made me. Justifiably hurt and upset. Me too, I am guilty of upsetting and hurting others who have had very valid reasons for being angry with me. And so, no, I do not know for sure the day or the hour. I'm pretty sure it is NOW! I could be wrong though. All I know is that just like SocialExile just posted over on the other thread Song of Solomon 3 and 5, I want to be watching, waiting, and actively out, about, and seeking Him when He comes. I don't want to be asleep, but my heart is awake... like the virgin described in SoS 5. I'm not claiming to know exactly what that verse means or whom it pertains to, but when I read it, I felt immediately touched by The Holy Spirit and like... "Yes, that is exactly how it is now!" There are so many people who truly do belong to Jesus and their hearts are His. But it is like they are asleep. They are not dead like an unbeliever, not sleeping so soundly that they don't hear it when Jesus comes knocking on the door. They hear it and they love Him. But it's like they kind of have become complacent, so many actual and real "date setters" have come and gone (keeping clear that for me anyway, and I believe for most if not all here on this forum, NO ONE is setting dates), there are so many distractions in and of this world... job, family, bills to pay, things to do, money to make to provide for both essential needs and then also for "entertainment", for "wants". For people who are of higher status, it is even more difficult because there is more distraction... fame, social status, power, control, getting a big head because other's look to you like you are somehow more than human and so before you know it you also start to view yourself that way also... view yourself as somehow "better", and as "knowing it all". Then there is pride, vainness, wealth, and being quite satisfied with all of it, TOO SATISFIED with "the world". So much so that they don't want to think of Jesus coming back because of how great things are going for them down here. That, and the pride thing. If a Christian has become somewhat famous and gained standing in predominantly Christian social circles (sometimes leads also to secular fame such as Rick Warren; not judging him either because I don't know his heart and so is just an example based upon my very human and fallible thoughts); it takes a special and very humble person to be able to deal with all that without it going to one's head. Pride is the reason Satan fell and if one of God's highest ranking angels can fall, just saying that it can happen to anyone. If we've been genuinely saved though, at any point in our lives, I do truly believe that means forever. And so maybe in SoS, it's God telling us that no matter what He will NEVER abandon not even one of His Children. Even if they get so off track and caught up in sin that they pretty much disown Him. Even for those not out and about the city looking for their One True Love, even those who are at home, even those who are in bed with all their clothes off (meaning living in sin) and completely NOT ready for Him... He will still come knocking on their door when He returns. They will take too long and quite bluntly they just won't be ready. But He still cares enough to come knocking on their door. Not only that, but He comes with all of these gifts for them, just like it says in SoS 5:1: I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.So, not only does He come knocking. But while His Bride is running about trying to get herself together (what to do with her coat, what to do with her feet, how can she answer the door in sin like this and with no "oil" in her lamp); while she is doing all this He leaves oil of myrrh, puts it through the hole in her door, so much of it that it is everywhere and her hands and fingers are dripping with it and this myrrh reminds her of her Love (Jesus), however He is gone by the time she answers the door. So she gets herself in order, she goes out looking for Him, she can't find Him because He is gone, the watchmen who were of her Love (Jesus) also gone. However, there are watchmen there, take a guess who they are... satan's people/NWO/anti-Christ. And so they smote her, they basically defile her, rip her veil (maybe this means they either persecute or kill her because when they killed Christ the veil was ripped also). Still though, doesn't matter what they do to her. Because Jesus came to the door, gave her the oil, and her lamp was full again, full of His Holy Spirit, full of love for Him (SocialExile is the entire reason I've just been thinking about all this and what was posted in the thread called BIG NAMES and he connected Chapters 3 and 5 of SoS with the parable of the 10 virgins). The rest of that chapter seems to me to be about her yearning so deeply for Christ. And she will find Him! If she is killed, or if she is still fighting here on earth for the Lord when He comes back. Really, I don't know anything but just that she will find Him. I don't say any of that for certain, like this IS the 100% accurate interpretation. It definitely goes against what I have always *thought*. I could be completely off base. If not that, I'm most definitely likely partially off base. It's not about that though. And that is what all these "big names" such as Svigel and all the rest of them who want to badmouth all of us, name call, advise all Christians to reject us, ban us, shun us; call us date setters and astrologers... just all of that very mean and nasty stuff. They don't understand that we are not doing any of what they are accusing us of. Yet they sit, they judge, they convict us as if it is their role to do so. (I posted in the same thread BIG NAMES 1 Corinthians 4.) They are missing out on so much while those with eyes to see and ears to hear grow closer and closer to our Love. Jesus. Yeshua. Praise His Name! NO ONE and NOTHING will keep me from watching, nor will keep me from seeking, nor will keep me from waiting upon MY LORD! I don't care who you are or what your name is, you are human. The both of us, ALL of us, are brimming with sin and corruption. So argue all you want, condemn me all you want, judge me all you want. I choose Jesus.Remember, that what we have in SoS and the Matthew 25 parable is those who put their faith solely in Jesus and those who don't. People can believe Jesus is savior and never put their trust solely in His work, and think their works earn them salvation. This is rampant in almost every church these days - Catholic, Reformed, Charismatic, Evangelical, the cults etc. Many, if not most, professing Christians do not believe that salvation is a completely free gift. The amazing thing I have discovered over the last couple years after coming back to the church after a 20 year hiatus is that I get into the very same argument on grace vs. works no matter if I'm talking to a Mormon, a JW, or a Calvinist, or Arminian, or Catholic, or Charismatic - they all use the same proof-texts also. |
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Post by yardstick on Aug 11, 2017 0:41:37 GMT -6
The seriousness of making an accusation like that, I agree. It's why I wanted to make sure that I said that I don't know and I am not sure. I still don't know and I'm still not sure. I walk by faith and by guidance of The Holy Spirit. "I" am the only fallible part in that equation, whence, I could be completely wrong. Certainly I do not wish condemnation for any of them, or for anyone; though at times I do have to be honest and admit that it gets to me, and it hurts me, the things they are saying about me and anyone who believes like I do that He is Coming So Soon, maybe even next month. Things everyone say or have said, at some point in time... couldn't even count how many times my flesh has taken over because of how upset they've made me. Justifiably hurt and upset. Me too, I am guilty of upsetting and hurting others who have had very valid reasons for being angry with me... Praise His Name! NO ONE and NOTHING will keep me from watching, nor will keep me from seeking, nor will keep me from waiting upon MY LORD! I don't care who you are or what your name is, you are human. The both of us, ALL of us, are brimming with sin and corruption. So argue all you want, condemn me all you want, judge me all you want. I choose Jesus.Remember, that what we have in SoS and the Matthew 25 parable is those who put their faith solely in Jesus and those who don't. People can believe Jesus is savior and never put their trust solely in His work, and think their works earn them salvation. This is rampant in almost every church these days - Catholic, Reformed, Charismatic, Evangelical, the cults etc. Many, if not most, professing Christians do not believe that salvation is a completely free gift. The amazing thing I have discovered over the last couple years after coming back to the church after a 20 year hiatus is that I get into the very same argument on grace vs. works no matter if I'm talking to a Mormon, a JW, or a Calvinist, or Arminian, or Catholic, or Charismatic - they all use the same proof-texts also. With works-based 'religion' you can never know if you have done enough to 'earn' your salvation. With grace-based faith, its not about what you do, its about what Jesus did. So it could be a bit 'fun' to ask: How much do you have to do? How do you know that's enough? Prove it. And they can't. They can never know whether they have done enough or not. "How do you know that is enough?" |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 6:28:14 GMT -6
James 5:9
Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
I think, this admonition applies to all of us, even the so-called "BIG NAMES".
The essence of all is, whether the engagement with the prophetic issues like the REV12 thing and surrounding topics helps us to grow in our faith and to get nearer to Jesus.
If it does, then I would say: Mission accomplished!
If it leads us astray or away from our Lord then we should rethink our activities and engagement and whatever we spend our time with.
When reading posts from tiffanybw I can't help concluding, that this is a great example for being drawn to the Lord by this.
It is my conviction, that in our times every single follower is responsible for answering the wake-up call.
Some do, some continue to sleep or deny or scoff or whatever...
I think, Jesus is calling and building his body, even (or maybe particular) through this REV12 thing.
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Post by mike on Aug 11, 2017 7:47:59 GMT -6
The seriousness of making an accusation like that, I agree. It's why I wanted to make sure that I said that I don't know and I am not sure. I still don't know and I'm still not sure. I walk by faith and by guidance of The Holy Spirit. "I" am the only fallible part in that equation, whence, I could be completely wrong. Certainly I do not wish condemnation for any of them, or for anyone; though at times I do have to be honest and admit that it gets to me, and it hurts me, the things they are saying about me and anyone who believes like I do that He is Coming So Soon, maybe even next month. Things everyone say or have said, at some point in time... couldn't even count how many times my flesh has taken over because of how upset they've made me. Justifiably hurt and upset. Me too, I am guilty of upsetting and hurting others who have had very valid reasons for being angry with me. And so, no, I do not know for sure the day or the hour. I'm pretty sure it is NOW! I could be wrong though. All I know is that just like SocialExile just posted over on the other thread Song of Solomon 3 and 5, I want to be watching, waiting, and actively out, about, and seeking Him when He comes. I don't want to be asleep, but my heart is awake... like the virgin described in SoS 5. I'm not claiming to know exactly what that verse means or whom it pertains to, but when I read it, I felt immediately touched by The Holy Spirit and like... "Yes, that is exactly how it is now!" There are so many people who truly do belong to Jesus and their hearts are His. But it is like they are asleep. They are not dead like an unbeliever, not sleeping so soundly that they don't hear it when Jesus comes knocking on the door. They hear it and they love Him. But it's like they kind of have become complacent, so many actual and real "date setters" have come and gone (keeping clear that for me anyway, and I believe for most if not all here on this forum, NO ONE is setting dates), there are so many distractions in and of this world... job, family, bills to pay, things to do, money to make to provide for both essential needs and then also for "entertainment", for "wants". For people who are of higher status, it is even more difficult because there is more distraction... fame, social status, power, control, getting a big head because other's look to you like you are somehow more than human and so before you know it you also start to view yourself that way also... view yourself as somehow "better", and as "knowing it all". Then there is pride, vainness, wealth, and being quite satisfied with all of it, TOO SATISFIED with "the world". So much so that they don't want to think of Jesus coming back because of how great things are going for them down here. That, and the pride thing. If a Christian has become somewhat famous and gained standing in predominantly Christian social circles (sometimes leads also to secular fame such as Rick Warren; not judging him either because I don't know his heart and so is just an example based upon my very human and fallible thoughts); it takes a special and very humble person to be able to deal with all that without it going to one's head. Pride is the reason Satan fell and if one of God's highest ranking angels can fall, just saying that it can happen to anyone. If we've been genuinely saved though, at any point in our lives, I do truly believe that means forever. And so maybe in SoS, it's God telling us that no matter what He will NEVER abandon not even one of His Children. Even if they get so off track and caught up in sin that they pretty much disown Him. Even for those not out and about the city looking for their One True Love, even those who are at home, even those who are in bed with all their clothes off (meaning living in sin) and completely NOT ready for Him... He will still come knocking on their door when He returns. They will take too long and quite bluntly they just won't be ready. But He still cares enough to come knocking on their door. Not only that, but He comes with all of these gifts for them, just like it says in SoS 5:1: I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.So, not only does He come knocking. But while His Bride is running about trying to get herself together (what to do with her coat, what to do with her feet, how can she answer the door in sin like this and with no "oil" in her lamp); while she is doing all this He leaves oil of myrrh, puts it through the hole in her door, so much of it that it is everywhere and her hands and fingers are dripping with it and this myrrh reminds her of her Love (Jesus), however He is gone by the time she answers the door. So she gets herself in order, she goes out looking for Him, she can't find Him because He is gone, the watchmen who were of her Love (Jesus) also gone. However, there are watchmen there, take a guess who they are... satan's people/NWO/anti-Christ. And so they smote her, they basically defile her, rip her veil (maybe this means they either persecute or kill her because when they killed Christ the veil was ripped also). Still though, doesn't matter what they do to her. Because Jesus came to the door, gave her the oil, and her lamp was full again, full of His Holy Spirit, full of love for Him (SocialExile is the entire reason I've just been thinking about all this and what was posted in the thread called BIG NAMES and he connected Chapters 3 and 5 of SoS with the parable of the 10 virgins). The rest of that chapter seems to me to be about her yearning so deeply for Christ. And she will find Him! If she is killed, or if she is still fighting here on earth for the Lord when He comes back. Really, I don't know anything but just that she will find Him. I don't say any of that for certain, like this IS the 100% accurate interpretation. It definitely goes against what I have always *thought*. I could be completely off base. If not that, I'm most definitely likely partially off base. It's not about that though. And that is what all these "big names" such as Svigel and all the rest of them who want to badmouth all of us, name call, advise all Christians to reject us, ban us, shun us; call us date setters and astrologers... just all of that very mean and nasty stuff. They don't understand that we are not doing any of what they are accusing us of. Yet they sit, they judge, they convict us as if it is their role to do so. (I posted in the same thread BIG NAMES 1 Corinthians 4.) They are missing out on so much while those with eyes to see and ears to hear grow closer and closer to our Love. Jesus. Yeshua. Praise His Name! NO ONE and NOTHING will keep me from watching, nor will keep me from seeking, nor will keep me from waiting upon MY LORD! I don't care who you are or what your name is, you are human. The both of us, ALL of us, are brimming with sin and corruption. So argue all you want, condemn me all you want, judge me all you want. I choose Jesus.Reminds me of Mary & Martha. So encumbered about things going on around her that she "forgot" about who was around her at the time. I think we can all be guilty of this at times, I know I am and have been, just not as much lately |
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Post by Gary on Aug 11, 2017 8:48:45 GMT -6
Evenso, exactly my thoughts!
They were teaching imminency up until a few months ago and are now suddenly assuming a pause in that doctrine. Sad.
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Post by yardstick on Aug 11, 2017 15:41:54 GMT -6
What bothers me about the other-than-the-9/23-sign prophecy teachers is that for years/decades, they have taught the doctrine of imminency and it's like they've now completely forgotten that doctrine. Where's the excitement that 9/23 *could* mean something? Where's the joyful anticipation of Christ's return? They don't have to embrace the belief that it could be true but why do most of them come across as sarcastic, insulting or down right angry about the subject? I am cautiously excited but if nothing has changed on 9/24, I'll still be excited and anticipating His return. Why don't our teachers share the same feelings?It just occurred to me to point out that this 'Doctrine of Imminence' which has been preached for so long, appears to about to be 'fulfilled'... and they are complaining? Shouldn't they be praising Jesus? |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 11, 2017 20:11:08 GMT -6
What bothers me about the other-than-the-9/23-sign prophecy teachers is that for years/decades, they have taught the doctrine of imminency and it's like they've now completely forgotten that doctrine. Where's the excitement that 9/23 *could* mean something? Where's the joyful anticipation of Christ's return? They don't have to embrace the belief that it could be true but why do most of them come across as sarcastic, insulting or down right angry about the subject? I am cautiously excited but if nothing has changed on 9/24, I'll still be excited and anticipating His return. Why don't our teachers share the same feelings?It just occurred to me to point out that this 'Doctrine of Imminence' which has been preached for so long, appears to about to be 'fulfilled'... and they are complaining? Shouldn't they be praising Jesus? Well they're the experts right? And here we are pointing them to a fulfillment happening before they can write their next $24 book and make their next $40 video on how we should know when Jesus is coming. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 21:41:44 GMT -6
Couple points -
1. Most debunkers use the logic that the Rev 12 passage should be interpreted by Josephs dream and they say let scripture interpret scripture. But then they go on to say that the Woman in Rev 12 is Israel. These two points don't agree. In Josephs dream, Jacob (Israel) is the Sun. So if they really wanted to link these two passages and let scripture interpret scripture, than they would need to claim that the woman was clothed with Israel. They don't seem to see their own claims don't hold agreement. At best, shouldn't they think that the 12 stars are Israel? The brothers as the tribes?
Just because Joseph dreamed about the sun and the moon and the stars does not in any way make it connected to the interpretation of Rev 12.
2. The other common counter claim is that the child must be Jesus. So let me get this straight - if a sign appeared in the sky saying "Jesus is Born!" Would they just ignore that because it already happened and therefore can't mean anything? Or would they see that a miracle announcement preparing the world for something important. This one doesn't apply in this case, but it is common.
3. The "can't know the date" crowd. So, I actually figured out how to prevent Jesus from ever returning. Satan wins - All we have to do is declare that Jesus will return on each day for the rest of eternity: August 21, 22, 23 24, etc.... There, now since no one knows the day or hour, He can never return. Silly. Eventually, He will return and there are decent odds that someone, somewhere will have said that he might return on that date.
The way I see it - many of us have seen this sign in our heart. Many others have not. It seems that logic or even spiritual seeking is not revealing it. Simply faith.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 21:53:34 GMT -6
Point 4 to add to my previous post.
4. The claim that by watching a date, or an event, or merely being aware of an event and telling others about it could steal their faith if the event doesn't manifest in an expected way.
Do we really have such weak faith as a body that we can't take a bit of disappointment? How then, could we possible deal with persecution? Tribulation? This tells me that the "leaders" of Christianity believe that Christianity has effectively become a faithless religion and not a relationship with Christ.
Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
This rings so true if we are to believe the leaders of the "religion."
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Post by sawdy on Aug 14, 2017 22:56:10 GMT -6
Do we really have such weak faith as a body that we can't take a bit of disappointment? How then, could we possible deal with persecution? Tribulation? This tells me that the "leaders" of Christianity believe that Christianity has effectively become a faithless religion and not a relationship with Christ. Simple words but you make a great and very effective point. Thanks! Welcome to the message boards. 🙂 |
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Post by whatif on Aug 14, 2017 23:26:13 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, silentknight! It's a pleasure to meet you!
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Post by mike on Aug 15, 2017 6:36:57 GMT -6
Couple points - 1. Most debunkers use the logic that the Rev 12 passage should be interpreted by Josephs dream and they say let scripture interpret scripture. But then they go on to say that the Woman in Rev 12 is Israel. These two points don't agree. In Josephs dream, Jacob (Israel) is the Sun. So if they really wanted to link these two passages and let scripture interpret scripture, than they would need to claim that the woman was clothed with Israel. They don't seem to see their own claims don't hold agreement. At best, shouldn't they think that the 12 stars are Israel? The brothers as the tribes? Just because Joseph dreamed about the sun and the moon and the stars does not in any way make it connected to the interpretation of Rev 12. 2. The other common counter claim is that the child must be Jesus. So let me get this straight - if a sign appeared in the sky saying "Jesus is Born!" Would they just ignore that because it already happened and therefore can't mean anything? Or would they see that a miracle announcement preparing the world for something important. This one doesn't apply in this case, but it is common. 3. The "can't know the date" crowd. So, I actually figured out how to prevent Jesus from ever returning. Satan wins - All we have to do is declare that Jesus will return on each day for the rest of eternity: August 21, 22, 23 24, etc.... There, now since no one knows the day or hour, He can never return. Silly. Eventually, He will return and there are decent odds that someone, somewhere will have said that he might return on that date.The way I see it - many of us have seen this sign in our heart. Many others have not. It seems that logic or even spiritual seeking is not revealing it. Simply faith. On point 3...I watched a recent video from Jaco (Gods Roadmap) where he says this information was hidden from those who lived before we did. If we lived in the 1200's or 1500's or 1800's or anytime prior to NOW, think how they would feel if they knew the sign was fulfilled in 2017 and Christ would return/rapture His body in 2017. The imminency doctrine wouldnt apply at all. Make sense I hope. |
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