The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium

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Gary
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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Jan 13, 2017 11:52:33 GMT -6 watchmanjim likes this

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Post by Gary on Jan 13, 2017 11:52:33 GMT -6

By now you've probably heard about what a number of Christians are calling the Revelation 12 Sign that will supposedly occur on Saturday, September 23rd, 2017. There is a lot of rampant speculation on the internet both for and against the legitimacy of this sign and much information to weed through. What's true? What's false? Is this all hype? The goal of this article is to provide readers with a comprehensive and straightforward analysis of the purported sign, addressing many questions and concerns. The three sections below cover the sign itself, it's possible significance, and claims and critiques about the sign. I suspect this article will be updated as new information is uncovered, so please feel free to add items of interest in the Comments below.

A Great Sign

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

- Revelation 12:1-5

The astronomical alignment that so many are now pointing to comes from a literal reading of Revelation 12:1-5, which describes a sign in the sky involving a woman who is crowned with twelve stars, clothed with the sun, having the moon under her feet, and giving birth to a male child. The text itself does not describe the sign as a parable or illustration, which validates the view that this passage is in fact describing a real astronomical event visible to the inhabitants of the earth - complete with real sun, moon, and stars. Each of the elements described in the sign have significant prophetic and allegorical meaning as will be shown, but the passage itself describes first and foremost a real sign and so any accurate interpretation must begin with that premise. Lacking any evidence that the Apostle John was not describing a sign visible in the sky as the text plainly says, the burden of proof is entirely upon those who would argue that this passage is only pure allegory.

There has been much confusion over both the Hebrew and Greek words for heaven. In the Greek, the word in Revelation 12:1 is ourano with a definite article, which can be translated as "in heaven" or "in the sky." The distinction is a big deal, because many who deny a literal one thousand-year kingdom of Christ and the earthly fulfillment of Old Testament covenant promises, will opt for "heaven" being the translation every time. The same goes for Revelation 21:1. John sees what is often translated "a new heaven" and "a new earth." However, it may be better to translate this as "a new sky," rather than confusing modern readers by using a word in modern English most often associated with God's dwelling.

It is also important to note that these first five verses in Revelation 12 purposefully distinguish between two different signs. The first sign, which the text calls "a great sign", involves only a woman in labor, and so includes Revelation 12:1-2 and Revelation 12:5. The second sign, called "another sign", is described in Revelation 12:3-4. The signs are connected in the narrative, but their distinction tells us that they are not the same and this is the likely reason that only the first sign has been apparently identified in the Fall of 2017. A number of different explanations for the second sign have been offered, such as an as of yet unseen stellar or planetary body, but that is not the topic of this study. Our focus is entirely on the "great sign".

There is some question as to who first made the discovery in its most primordial form, but sometime in 2012 it was observed using astronomy software that a specific alignment of constellations, planets, the sun, and moon would appear to fulfill a literal reading of Revelation 12:1-2 and Revelation 12:5. Here are each of the elements involved in the alignment:

The Constellation Virgo

Virgo, Latin for "virgin" or "maiden", is the second largest constellation in the sky and one of the twelve constellations of the Zodiac and Jewish Mazzaroth (the constellations that the sun appears to move through during the course of the year). In most depictions it features twelve principal stars as can be seen in the picture above. Spica, along with three other stars, form a womb-of-sorts at the center of the constellation. Virgo is universally depicted as a woman, even in the ancient Grecian, Roman, and Assyrian-Babylonian cultures and for this reason it is argued that this is the "woman" John saw in the sky. It is the only constellation in the Zodiac and Mazzaroth that represents a woman, and out of the 88 constellations in the entire celestial sphere, it is one of only three constellations that represent women (the other two being Andromeda and Cassiopeia).

The Sun

Our solar system's star is mentioned by name in Revelation 12:1 as part of the sign. It is said to "clothe" the woman. From the perspective of a viewer on earth, the sun is always much smaller than Virgo and therefore it cannot be the disc of the sun itself that clothes her in any arrangement, but on September 23rd it will rest upon her shoulder and the sign will be entirely "clothed" in sunlight during the day on September 22nd and 23rd, hiding Virgo from view.

The Moon

The lunar body is also mentioned by name in Revelation 12:1, described as residing under the woman's feet. On September 23rd, from the perspective of a viewer in the Middle East, Virgo will appear prone and the moon will appear directly under the feet of the constellation.

A Crown Of Twelve Stars

It is not uncommon for Virgo to be "clothed" in the sun and to have the moon under or near her feet - in fact it happens every year for a number of days in the Fall. It is the crown of twelve stars that John saw that really begins to set this sign apart. This is far, far more rare. The Hebrew and Greek words for "star" do not distinguish between stars as we know them today and planets. From the perspective of an earth-based observer, stars and planets look the same except that planets appear to move through the field of fixed stars. For this reason, planets were sometimes described in the ancient languages as "wandering", but they were still called stars. Situated directly above the head of the constellation Virgo is the constellation Leo ("The Lion"), composed of nine principal stars as shown above. On September 22nd and 23rd the visible planets Mercury, Mars, and Venus will join Leo's nine stars to form a "crown" of twelve stars on the head of Virgo.

The Planet Jupiter

Jupiter, the largest planet in our solar system, is said to represent the male child that the woman is giving birth to. There seem to be some very good reasons for making this connection.

First of all, almost all commentaries on Revelation 12 throughout Church history have identified the male child in the passage with Jesus Christ (though not only Jesus Christ as will be discussed later). It seems obvious enough: on one level the woman represents Mary, the baby is Jesus, and the dragon in the second sign represents satan. The child is "caught up" to God's throne in the passage and Jesus ascended into Heaven. Jesus will also rule all the nations when He returns as the passage describes the child as doing. A number of theories about the Star of Bethlehem have posited that Jupiter was that very star - Christ's star. Like Christ, Jupiter is covered in stripes (Isaiah 53:5) and has a very prominent hole called the Great Red Spot, similar to Christ's spear wound (John 19:34). Also like Christ, Jupiter "takes the blow" for us (Isaiah 53:4-6), absorbing most of the lethal comets and asteroids from the outer solar system that would otherwise strike earth.

Second, the planet is named after the king of the gods in the ancient Roman and Greek pantheons (Jupiter and Zeus, respectively). In ancient Babylonian and Germanic pantheons the planet represented the son of their respective chief deities: Marduk son of Ea, and Thor son of Odin. In other words, in the ancient world Jupiter was always associated with either the greatest male deity or that deity's son. Jupiter is therefore frequently called the "king planet".

Third, on November 20th, 2016, the planet Jupiter entered the womb of the constellation Virgo where it will remain for exactly 42 weeks, the precise length of a long human gestation. The 42 week gestation is interesting in light of the 42 generations from Abraham to Christ (Matthew 1:17) and the 42 months that transpire in each of the first and second halves of the Tribulation (Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5, Daniel 7:25, among others). A crown of twelve stars above Virgo's head is rare, but this is rarer still. In order for Jupiter to remain in the womb for such a lengthy and precise amount of time, it undergoes an extremely rare retrograde motion in the constellation. The planet actually appears to make a giant circle within the womb during this time before exiting on September 9th, 2017. The sign in Revelation 12 completes in verse 5 after the child is born and likewise two weeks after Jupiter exits the womb, it moves down the celestial birthing canal and the complete sign is formed in the sky. It could be said that the woman is in labor for two weeks as the baby moves out of the womb and through the canal.

The Complete Picture

The picture above shows the complete sign as it will appear from Israel on September 23rd, 2017. It also shows the different positions of Jupiter within the womb of Virgo as it circles around during the 42 week gestation. Scottie Clark, the first to put all these pieces together, talks about the precision of the sign here:

The Significance

My personal study of Revelation 12 (much credit given to Jeff E., Scottie Clark, and Daniel Matson, among many others) has led me to believe that the entire chapter, which occurs right in the middle of the book, is an interlude and broad overview of the entire Tribulation, describing all of the key events except for the Second Coming of Christ. Revelation 12 appears to describe the Tribulation in chronological order, except for verse 6:

Revelation 12:1-5: The rapture of the Church.

Revelation 12:7-12: The future war in Heaven that occurs simultaneously with the rapture or very shortly after. The accuser and his accusing angels are cast out of Heaven as the Church gains entrance into Heaven. You might call this the Cosmic Shift: the Church goes up and the devil comes down. Satan and his angels are then confined to earth.

Revelation 12:13: The persecution of the Jewish remnant on earth during the first half of the Tribulation.

Revelation 12:14-16, 6: The Jewish remnant's protection and provision while the remaining three and one-half years of the Tribulation comes to a conclusion.

Revelation 12:17: Recognizing that the Jewish remnant is then untouchable, satan turns his attention towards the remaining Gentile Tribulation Saints.

In order to fully understand the chapter's narrative you have to understand that the three key players represent both individuals and corporate entities:

The Woman: Mary And Israel

Throughout Church history it seemed self-evident to identify the woman in this passage with Mary, the mother of Jesus: she gave birth to the male child who will rule all the nations. She was also persecuted by a dragon-of-sorts in the form of Herod and God protected her and her family in Egypt. This is the individual that the woman represents.

Corporately, however, the woman represents Israel. This is indicated not only by the very Jewishness of a crown of twelve stars (the twelve tribes of Israel per Genesis 37:9-10), but by the narrative overall. The woman is the one protected in the wilderness on earth and a key distinction is made between her and her offspring (first the male child and second her other offspring in verse 17). Some have argued that the woman represents the Church, but this position is untenable because the Church didn't give birth to Christ. For these three reasons, virtually all dispensationalists and even many covenant theologians associate the woman with Israel.

The Dragon: Satan And The Kingdom Of Antichrist

The dragon is an explicit representation of satan (Revelation 12:9), which leaves no guesswork on our part.

Corporately, it is straightforward to understand that the dragon represents the antichrist and his kingdom, because it is through the kingdom of antichrist that the dragon actually persecutes Israel and the future Tribulation Saints. This corporate understanding is further proven by the dragon's seven heads and ten horns, which are connected to the antichrist's dominion (Revelation 17:9) and the world rulers who will give him his authority (Revelation 17:12, Daniel 7:20-22).

The Male Child: Christ And His Church

Jesus Christ is clearly in view in the passage. He was born from Mary, is coming to rule all the nations, and ascended to Heaven.

However, just as the woman and the dragon have corporate meanings, the child follows the same pattern. In the passage itself there are five key pieces of evidence that tell us the Church is also in view, borrowing from Dallas Theological Seminary professor Michael Svigel:

1. Consistency in Symbolism. The woman represents a corporate entity (Israel, see Genesis 37:9–10); the Dragon represents a corporate entity (the world system controlled by Satan, see the total of seven heads and ten horns in the series of monsters in Daniel 7:1–7) and the male child as the body of Christ would also represent a corporate entity (Christ in union with His body, the Church, see 1 Corinthians 12:12, etc.).

2. Allusion to Isaiah 66:7-8. The use of the neuter adjective arsen (male) modifying the masculine noun huios (son) and the image of Israel giving birth points careful readers back to Isaiah 66:7–8, where we read in the Septuagint (Greek version of the Old Testament): “Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy (arsen). Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her children.” The image is parallel in Revelation, and John explicitly breaks the rules of Greek grammar (modifying the masculine “son” with the neuter “male”) to point us back to this passage in Isaiah 66. The child in both cases is corporate, not individual.

3. Symbolic Background of Daniel 7. I think John uses the term huios (son) in Revelation 12:5 to connect us to the vision of the “Son of Man” in Daniel 7:13–14, which is interpreted corporately as the Messiah and His saints in 7:18; 26–27. John uses the term “son” in Revelation 12:5, literally “she gave birth to a son, a male,” not the term “child,” as most translations render it. Most people miss that the “Son of Man” in Daniel 7 is interpreted by the angel corporately, which fits well with Revelation 12:5’s “male son” interpreted corporately as the body of Christ. Also, the image of the seven heads and ten horns of the dragon symbol earlier in this vision already pointed us back to Daniel 7, which seems to stand behind this vision of Revelation 12.

4. The Male Child is “Snatched Up.” The word in Revelation 12:5 is the word for “rapture,” harpazo, and always means a sudden removal, a snatching. In contrast, for the ascension of Christ, the New Testament uses terms such as “to be lifted up,” epairo (Acts 1:9), “to ascend,” anabaino (John 20:17; Ephesians 4:8-10) and “to take up,” analambano (Mark 16:19; Luke 1:11). These are neutral terms meaning a removal from one place to another. Revelation 12:5 has the male child being suddenly snatched away from the dragon, who wants to devour the child. The ascension of Christ was gradual (Acts 1:10), not sudden. Also, Revelation 12:5 is a context of “rescue” from the threat of the dragon. The word “rapture,” harpazo, is appropriately used in the New Testament for a rescue in Acts 23:10 and Jude 23. In His ascension to heaven, Christ was not rescued, but ascended victoriously and was in no danger from the devil or anybody else. The term “rapture,” harpazo, is never used of Christ’s ascension to heaven. Thus, the use of harpazo in a rescue context like Revelation 12:5 is completely inappropriate to describe the ascension of Christ, but is completely appropriate to describe the rapture of the church as a rescue from Satan’s emerging efforts to destroy the church as we approach the end times.

5. Corporate application of Psalm 2:9 in Revelation 2:26-27; 12:5; and 19:14-15. In Psalm 2:9, God tells the Messiah, “You will break them [the nations] with a rod of iron, You will shatter them like earthenware.” In Revelation 2:26-27, Christ extends this promise to the Church, the body of Christ: “And he who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received [authority] from My Father.” In Revelation 19:14-15, Christ and the armies come to earth, fulfilling the promise: “And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white [and] clean, were following Him on white horses. And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.” This same Psalm is quoted in Revelation 12:5 and applied to the male child. Thus, the male child as Christ in union with His body, the Church, is most consistent with the application of the promise of Psalm 2:9 extended both to Christ and the Church.

In summary, the significance of the Revelation 12 sign may be the rapture of the Church, the beginning of the cosmic war in Heaven, and God's redemptive focus returning to Israel and the Jews (Micah 5:3). The Revelation 12 sign on September 23rd, 2017, also happens to fall on what will likely be the first or second day of Rosh Hashanah, determined by the sighting of the new moon. This could be incredibly significant because for many years students of Bible prophecy have speculated that Rosh Hashanah (also called Yom Teruah or "The Feast of Trumpets") is the most likely time of year for the rapture.

There are seven biblical feasts (Leviticus 23:4-44) and Jesus fulfilled the first four in order:

The Feast of Passover - fulfilled by His death

The Feast of Unleavened Bread - fulfilled by His sinless life and burial

The Feast of First Fruits - fulfilled by His resurrection

The Feast of Pentecost - fulfilled by Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to indwell the Church

The very next feast in chronological order is The Feast of Trumpets, which happens to fall on September 22nd and 23rd in 2017 - when the possible sign occurs.

*An important side note: Pentecost has often been called "the birth of the Church" because on that day Jesus' first coming ministry was fully completed and Believers became indwelt with what would ultimately be their seal of eternal redemption (Ephesians 4:30). In light of the birthing portrayed in the sky in September 2017, consider the account of the conception of Jesus in Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:35. It was the conception of Christ when the Holy Spirit came into Mary, not His birth. Could it be that Pentecost was actually the conception of the Church and the Revelation 12 Sign portrays the birth of the Church? Even from a soteriological perspective this makes a lot of sense when you compare the process of salvation to the development and birth of a baby: conception is like justification when a new spirit enters in and a new life is formed, gestation is like sanctification as we grow in our faith, and birth is like glorification when the baby is finally complete and fully formed. Perhaps Jesus was being more literal than we thought when He said in John 3:7 "You must be born again." Consider also the Apostle Paul's admonition in Galatians 4:19:

My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you...

Claims And Critiques

CLAIM: Looking for "signs" in the sky is astrology.

This is FALSE. Astrology is an idolatrous and occultic practice that often involves the deification of stars, planets, and moons. Astrologers often teach that these heavenly bodies control life on earth. To the contrary, the search for biblical signs in the heavens recognizes that it is the Creator God who made all things and set everything into motion in a preordained pattern. The heavenly bodies themselves have no power over our lives and we do not worship them.

The Bible says explicitly that there will be signs in the sky preceding the return of Christ (Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:11, Luke 21:25, Revelation 12:1-3). The Bible also says that the sun, moon, and stars were created for three reasons: 1. To separate day from night, 2. To give light to the earth, and 3. To indicate days, years, seasons, and signs (Genesis 1:14-15). Prophetic language frequently makes mention of lunar and solar eclipses (Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12) and God often focuses our attention on the stars (Genesis 15:5, Isaiah 40:26, Job 38:31, Amos 5:8, Psalm 19:1).

Interestingly, the magi from the east were able to find the baby Jesus by following prophetic descriptions found in Numbers 24:17 and Genesis 49:9-10. They were able to identify the constellation Leo ("The Lion") with the tribe of Judah and followed the Star of Bethlehem as it moved west and came to rest over Bethlehem.

CLAIM: The Revelation 12 Sign is not unique, it has happened before.

This is also FALSE, with one caveat. Some argue that this sign occurred in 3915 BC, 3 BC, and 70 AD. It definitely did not occur in 3 BC or 70 AD, but it did occur on August 5th of 3915 BC, albeit with less precision. So the caveat is the 3915 BC occurrence where Saturn was in the crown, but Mars was absent. Jupiter also underwent an approximately nine month retrograde through the womb of Virgo during this time (October 28th, 3916 BC to August 5th, 3915 BC), but a large portion of Jupiter's retrograde took place outside of the womb.

August 27th, 70 AD:

The woman has a crown of twelve stars, but Jupiter and Venus are so close together it makes them hard to distinguish. The sun and moon are in place, but she has no "male child". The womb is completely empty. You could also argue that the moon is below her knees, not her feet.

September 11th, 3 BC:

Many have argued that Rosh Hashanah of 3 BC (September 11th) also featured the sign as evidence Christ was born that day, but this only gets two things right: the sun clothes the woman and the moon is under her feet. There is no crown of twelve stars, the moon is very far away, and she is not giving birth to a "male child".

August 5th, 3915 BC:

Everything matches on this date. In fact it is such a close match that it has been speculated that this could have been the date of the Fall of Mankind when God spoke these eerily relevant words to the devil and to Eve in Genesis 3:15-16:

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

Interestingly, in this dialogue the same three entities mentioned in Revelation 12 are also present: the serpent (Revelation 12:9), the woman, and the male child. The planet Saturn, which some have speculated represents satan, happens to be near the heel of The Lion.

CLAIM: The sign is not visible in Israel.

This is FALSE. I'm not sure who first made the argument that the constellations in question (Virgo and Leo) will not be in the sky above Israel in Fall 2017, but it simply isn't true.The entire sign will be in the western sky above Israel and Jerusalem on Saturday, September 23rd - and how fitting that the sign that may be heralding the end of the Church Age will be seen right where the sun sets and the day ends.One might argue that observers can't see the alignment because the sun is up, but that's exactly what John saw - the woman is clothed with the sun.And, as a matter of fact, after the sun sets, everything but the woman's crown will be visible in the night sky.

As mentioned, from Israel the sign will be visible in the west. The possible occurrence in 3915 BC was visible in the east, where the sun rises. Perhaps this indicates the sun rising and setting on the age of fallen humanity.

CLAIM: The moon is not under the woman's feet.

This is FALSE. When I initially studied the alignment I was misled by images showing the woman standing upright with the moon to the right of her feet.The text makes clear that the moon should be under her feet, not beside her feet.For this reason I viewed the heavenly sign with some skepticism.After all, God's Word is perfect and for His Word to be fulfilled it must be fulfilled perfectly.Every condition in the text has to be fulfilled, which is why 70 AD, 3 BC, and 3915 BC don't fit the bill.However, a woman in labor is not standing when she gives birth, she's lying prone, and that's exactly how the alignment is arranged in the sky - the woman is lying prone with her feet up and the moon is directly below her feet, almost as a pillow of sorts.

CLAIM: What John saw was symbolic.

This is TRUE. I think we can all agree that the sign John saw had definite symbolic and prophetic meaning - that is not in dispute.However, the text itself makes abundantly clear that this is more than just a parable: "A great sign appeared in heaven..." (Revelation 12:1).

I'm not saying the rapture will occur in September 2017, but I am saying that the heavenly sign John saw in Revelation 12 appears to be happening before our very eyes with whatever implications that brings and I believe Jesus will be calling us home very, very soon.

CLAIM: The rapture will occur on September 23rd, 2017.

This is either TRUE or FALSE. That might sound like a cop-out answer, but the truth of the matter is, it either will or it won't. It isn't a possibility, it's either for-sure or for-sure-not. Whatever God has planned will happen and I'm committed to not date setting. As a fallen human being, I'm the one prone to intellectual deficiencies and lack of understanding, but God's Word is true and will stand the test of time.

An interesting thing to note about Revelation 12:5 is that the male child is caught up to "God's throne". The September 23rd event doesn't portray this catching up in the sky, but only the birth of the child. Should we expect to see the rapture itself portrayed in the sky? I don't think we necessarily will, but I should point out that after Jupiter is "birthed" from Virgo it travels to the constellation Libra and precisely at midnight in Israel on December 25th, 2017, the male child Jupiter enters Libra where it stays for 41 weeks and three days, undergoing another nine month retrograde. Libra (Latin for "scales") is associated with justice and judgment and some depictions of the constellation resemble a throne. From the throne of God justice and judgment are given. While everyone is focused on September 23rd, is it possible that the rapture happens on Christmas Day, a little over three months later?

Midnight In Israel On December 25th, 2017:

After undergoing retrograde Jupiter leaves Libra on October 11th, 2018. I think it is unlikely that the rapture will happen on Christmas Day in 2017 for two reasons: 1. Libra is not categorically associated with a throne - the connection is more tenuous to make, and 2. The December 25th date would not easily fit with any Tribulation timeline where Jesus' second coming could occur on a Fall feast day. However, I offer it as a possibility and we should all be humble, open, and watchful, so that we are not caught unaware.

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures." (1 Cor. 15:3–4)

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Jan 16, 2017 11:18:25 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 11:18:25 GMT -6

We will be out of here soon. Look at Watchfortheday's new article : watchfortheday.org/thesign.html

In 2017 there are two signs in the heavens approaching that are only separated by a few days, but they are not coming in a vacuum. These signs have been heralded by the tetrads of lunar eclipses that have occurred on the Lord’s Feast Days. They have also been preceded by a number of planetary conjunctions that were similar to those that occurred at the time of Jesus’ birth. The interlocking design of these signs is almost beyond our comprehension and they should be getting people’s attention. As 2017 begins, it is time to lay these all out in one summarized document (More details exist in the other works presented here).

“Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.” Revelation 12:1-2 NKJV

On September 23, 2017 there is an alignment in the heavens that matches the Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12. The Woman is represented by Virgo, the Virgin clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet. Above her head is Leo with nine principle stars but with three wandering stars or planets there at this very time. Mercury, Mars, and Venus are those planets. The Woman is also with child and the Planet of the Messiah—Jupiter is in the woman's belly. Since the time of the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John, no other date for 3,000 years will reproduce that sign except September 23, 2017. Even a search back 4,000 years from the time of the giving of the Revelation produces only 3915 BC. This is beyond remarkable. This match of Revelation 12 in 2017 should be enough to wake up Bible believers, but this is not the only unique sign occurring in 2017.

“In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the LORD at its border. And it will be for a sign and for a witness to the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the LORD because of the oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Mighty One, and He will deliver them.” Isaiah 19:19-20 NKJV

Three days prior to the Sign of the Woman, the heavens align as mapped by the Giza Pyramid Complex. Just before the sun dawns, the star in Orion's Belt that the Great Pyramid represents is exactly at meridian. Also at this moment of time, Regulus, the King Star of Leo is at the Christ Angle above the eastern horizon. What is the Christ Angle? It is the angle of the Great Pyramid’s ascending and descending passageways. That angle applied north of east from the Great Pyramid will bisect Bethlehem. So at dawn September 20, 2017, Regulus is at the Christ Angle, but so is the Morning Star/Venus because it is in conjunction with Regulus. Coincidentally, this occurs the morning before the Feast of Trumpets. This alignment has not been found to repeat in any year through the year 2200, which puts us well beyond a generation from seeing the return of Israel.

These signs of September 2017 are not alone. Planetary conjunctions similar to the time before Christ was born also occurred within the past few years and the calculations are stunning. This along with the tetrad of lunar eclipses occurring on the Festivals of the Lord in 2014-2015 produces a time like no other and we are in the middle of it with less than nine months before September 20-23, 2017. The alarms should be sounding in the many churches of the world, but are they hearing them? Are we telling them?

The Tetrads

The first set of signs and the most popular was the lunar tetrad of 2014-2015. Many have unfortunately walked away from these signs and have failed to grasp their importance. They were not a sham—just not fully understood. There have been eight lunar tetrads on the Lord’s Feasts since our Lord ascended to heaven. The last four are notable: 1493-1494, 1949-1950, 1967-1968, and 2014-2015. Let us consider each to see how they have interacted with history and the future.

The Tetrad of 1493-1494

The event of concern at this time was the Spanish Inquisition in 1492 and the resultant push to head to America by Columbus. The Spanish Inquisition was enacted on July 30, 1492 and coincided with the 9th of Av and hence another time of Jewish persecution. 777 days after this event was the final lunar eclipse of the four on Tabernacles 1494. Also, 600 days after the Inquisition enactment was the third eclipse on Passover 1494. Day counts from events to the eclipses are therefore important.

The Tetrad of 1949-1950

The event of concern at this time was the establishment of Israel on May 14, 1948. The next day war broke since Israel’s Islamic neighbors did not want the establishment of a Jewish nation. That war lasted 300 days and ended with the raising of the Ink Flag on March 10, 1949. Like the previous tetrad, the events here also occurred beforehand. However, day counts again reveal the timeliness of these signs. Here the first lunar eclipse on April 13, 1949 comes 333 days after Israel’s first day as a nation and the start of the War of Independence. April 13, 1949 also comes 33 days after the raising of the Ink Flag and the end of the war. But get this, from the end of World War 1 on 11/11/1918, it is 11,111 days until this lunar eclipse of April 13, 1949! It is also noteworthy that the end of 1967’s Six-Day-War came 6,666 days after the end of the War for Independence on March 10, 1949. Indeed, the connections get more intricate and impossible to ignore.

The Tetrad of 1967-1968

The lunar tetrad at this time actually surrounds the event of concern. Israel regained Jerusalem and the Temple Mount in the Six-Day-War on June 5-10, 1967 for the first time in nearly 1900 years. Six weeks before the war, the first lunar eclipse on Passover 1967 occurred. The final eclipse of this tetrad on October 6, 1968 (Feast of Tabernacles) came 490 days after the Six-Day-War. The final eclipse also came exactly 5 solar years before the starting day of the Yom Kippur War of 1973. Another item of note is that 666 days after the start of the Six-Day-War came Passover 1969 and the day the Knesset enacted the law to establish the JQDC to rebuild Jerusalem. Passover 1969 also came 434 years (62x7) after the decree of Suleiman the Magnificent to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem in 1535 fulfilling what may be a secondary application of Daniel’s 62+7+1 weeks.

The Tetrad of 2014-2015

It wasn't until the time before this tetrad of lunar eclipses that this phenomena was starting to be understood. Most studies focused in on the eclipses and not the count of days to events around them. The first eclipse on Passover 2014 occurred 3.5 years before the Sign of the Woman of Revelation 12 on September 23, 2017. The final eclipse on September 28, 2015 occurred 2,520 weeks after the end of the Six-Day-War. It is this final eclipse that has most of the peculiar day counts.

In 2006 there was Israel’s 33-day war with Hezbollah that ended on August 14, 2006. 3,333 days later was the September 28th eclipse. However, the end of that war also came 6,666 x pi days after the first eclipse of 1949-1950 tetrad of April 13, 1949. That eclipse, as you remember, came 333 days after the establishment of Israel and 33 days after they won the war. If we also travel 3,333 days from the eclipse of September 28, 2015 into the future, we would land on November 11, 2024, which is 30 days after the Day of Atonement 2024 and 45 days before Hanukkah. November 11th is the anniversary end of World War 1. Remember, from the end of World War 1 (11/11/1918) it was 11,111 days until the eclipse of April 13, 1949. From that eclipse it is then 6,666 x pi + 6,666 days (27,607) until November 11, 2024—a day believed here to be Day 1290 (Daniel 12). There are even more “coincidences” with this final tetrad that have been documented here.

But before this discussion of the tetrads ends, there is another important aspect. The length of a tetrad from the first eclipse to the fourth is 531 days. Is it another coincidence that 531 years from the first significant tetrad beginning in 1493 is 2024? Not likely.

The Jupiter and Venus Conjunctions

While much talk of the final tetrad of 2014-2015 ensued, set at the same time were the remarkable conjunctions of Jupiter and Venus. At first the rarity of these conjunctions was not fully realized. The group of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions that just occurred were in a unique class with the four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions before Christ’s birth. In 9,400 years of Solex data, the Jupiter-Venus conjunction of June 17, 2 BC was the closest and longest observable conjunction over that entire period. From AD 1900-2100 the closest observable conjunction of Jupiter-Venus was on August 27, 2016. These two groups of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions in 3-1 BC and AD 2014-2016 both cover the same duration of time and both have two conjunctions each in Leo. With regards to 2014-2016, the nearest set of four conjunctions occurred in 1790-1792 and will occur in 2145-2147. At TheChristmasStar.org, Jim Dodge explains this and argues that out of the 9400 years of Solex data, these two groups are unique and the placement of the 2014-2016 conjunctions is no accident. As we examine them, that should become more obvious.

Jupiter-Venus August 18, 2014

This pairing occurred just before sunrise in the constellation of Cancer (the encircled, protected ones) near the Beehive (the multitude). Witnessing this firsthand on my early morning commute caused me to scramble and research its possible significance as I was totally unaware about its occurrence. It was obviously important. This conjunction occurred 360 x pi (1131) days before the Feast of Trumpets 2017. It occurred 1100 days before the total solar eclipse of August 21, 2017 that will cross America. It is also 700 x phi (1133) days until the Sign of the Woman on September 23, 2017.

Jupiter-Venus June 30/July 1, 2015

This pair occurred in Leo just after sunset in the west. This conjunction received the most attention as it was visible when people are mostly awake. It occurred seven solar years (2,557 days) divided by pi before the Feast of Trumpets. That is 814 days.

Jupiter-Venus October 25, 2015

This pair occurred in the hind quarters of Leo before dawn in the east. It occurred 700 days before the Sign of the Woman and 666 days before America’s total solar eclipse that will occur in Leo next to Regulus. It also occurred 700 / phi (433) days after the August 18, 2014 conjunction and this pattern is reversed later as well between August 18, 2014 and the Sign of the Woman.

Jupiter-Venus August 27, 2016

This was the closest pairing that formed a near single star that was the closest to what the wise men saw. Here it was near the head of Virgo just after sunset in the west. This occurred 360 days before America’s total solar eclipse. It also occurs 400 days before the Day of Atonement 2017. Lastly, it occurs 444 days before the next Jupiter-Venus eclipse on November 13, 2017.

Jupiter-Venus November 13, 2017

This pairing will probably be too close to the sun in Virgo to see as Jupiter departs Virgo. This occurs what looks to be seven days before the start of the 70th Week of Daniel (2520 days until Atonement 2024). It also occurs seven solar years before what looks to be Day 1290 from the middle of the 70th Week. This conjunction also occurs 777 days after the final eclipse of 2014-2015’s lunar tetrad on September 28, 2015.

Other Conjunctions

August 7, 2015. Jupiter-Mercury-Regulus formed an equilateral triangle. This event occurred 777 days before the Feast of Trumpets 2017 and one lunar year after the August 18, 2014 conjunction. In an interesting similarity, 777 days after the war between Hezbollah and Israel had ended on August 14, 2006 was the Feast of Trumpets 2008. Just as the Feast of Trumpets began in Israel in 2008, the stock market in the USA collapsed 777.7 points. Seven years and 777 days later is the Jupiter-Venus Conjunction of November 13, 2017, which looks to be 7 days before the 70th Week of 2,520 days. Follow the sevens!

July 17, 2016. Venus-Mercury conjunct near the Beehive in Cancer just like the August 18, 2014 conjunction. This occurred 700 / phi days (433) before the Sign of the Woman on September 23, 2017. It also occurred 700 days after the Jupiter-Venus conjunction on August 18, 2014. This is the second set of 700 + 700 / phi, which is equal to 700 x phi. July 17, 2016 and October 25, 2015 are then both the phi points between the first Jupiter-Venus conjunction on August 18, 2014 and the Sign of the Woman. On July 17, two days after Erdogan suppressed the attempted military coup against his rule in Turkey, he began reconciliation with Russia, which was a critical step towards Ezekiel 38-39.

Therefore, the lunar tetrads and conjunctions play their supporting role in pointing to the Feast of Trumpets and the Sign of the Woman that are coming this year. This would be September 21st and 23rd respectively. The alignment of the Great Pyramid comes the morning of September 20th. The rarity of the signs and the linkage should bring no question to their importance. These signs will not occur again anytime soon and one is spelled out clearly in the final book of the Bible. As Jesus said, there would be signs in the heavens, and if these are not them, then what else could we possibly be looking for? In the end there are no alternatives.

The Revelation 12 Sign of the Woman has been there in the text for all to read for nearly two thousand years. It is the only great sign mentioned in the Bible. That should be a big hint and a hint we all failed to see until very recently. It has been a neon flashing sign so big that it was missed in plain sight. The problem was that many saw this sign as a picture before Jesus was born, but no such alignment occurs then. It is also not an allegory of non-conclusive heavenly imagery to make Revelation colorful. It is a sign in the physical heavens and it is in just a few months.

The Revelation 12 Sign occurs in the “after these things” portion of Revelation, which happens after the Church passages of Chapters 2-3 or “the things which are”. This is then a future sign physically in the heavens concerning the final time. Revelation 12 is a unique part of the Book of Revelation as it comes after the seven seals and seven trumpets with the kingdoms of the world becoming Christ’s. The end of chapter 11 describes the end of the seven-year 70th Week. Chapter 12 begins another perspective of Revelation and the Sign of the Woman lays out the overall salvation plan of God from the beginning. The Woman represents Israel whose Seed is the Messiah. The Sign of the Woman on September 23, 2017 then fits with Micah 5 where Israel is given up until the Woman gives birth again.

““But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” Therefore He shall give them up, until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren shall return to the children of Israel.” Micah 5:2-3 NKJV

Notice how our Lord gives up the children of Israel until she who is in labor has given birth and then the remnant of Israel returns. This giving up period is the duration of the Church and the Church has not replaced Israel. So the question then is, what is this birth? Is it merely this Sign of Revelation 12 or is the birth that of the corporate Body of Christ when the Church is transformed at the Rapture? The time we are truly born again, as blood and flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? The child in Revelation 12:4 is taken (harpazo) to be delivered from the Dragon who brings the Antichrist. Is that not what the Rapture is about? Christ was not taken to heaven to be delivered. He gave His life for us and effectively crushed the Serpent’s head. It would seem this Sign of Revelation 12 speaks of Corporate Israel bringing forth the Corporate Body of Christ that is taken to heaven before the Nation of Israel endures the final hour.

This sign in the heavens then appropriately looks to mark this transition and transformation. September 20-23 is then a great moment to pay attention. On September 20, the alignment of the Great Pyramid speaks to the coming of our wounded Savior as the Morning Star-King on the morning before the observed day for the Feast of Trumpets—the Last Trump to which Paul referred to as the time of the Church’s gathering by resurrection. It is the opinion here the observed calendar is correct since many events and calculations have occurred according to the observed calendar. But again, we are talking merely a two day difference between the 21st and the 23rd of September. Trying to nail down the exact moment is in the end difficult to do. It would seem wise to not be so concerned over the fine details and realize that three days is still a pretty narrow focus for the transition. We can probably watch all of these days.

So it would appear the Sign of the Woman signals the soon onset of the 70th Week of Daniel. This Sign is not going to happen for at least another 1,000 years. In the end this comes down to faith and consideration of what all points to these dates. It would seem to behoove us all to take the possibilities, at least, seriously. These signs of 2017 again do not occur in a vacuum. They have support from the Lunar Tetrads and Conjunctions, as well as the progression of events in the world centered around Israel. It is the time.

We may be down to our final weeks as the Church to witness to the remainder of the world that is lost. However, the world does seem to know that all is not well and doomsday approaches. Indeed it is. The question comes down to what a person does with Jesus and the gift he offered through his death on the cross. Whatever point of history we are in, that is the question. That is the bottom line. Believing in Christ and accepting his gift of pure grace is what will deliver us. It is the only thing that can save us. We will soon see that the world cannot save itself. Scripture promises that it will soon be humanity's darkest hour. Those who believe now will be taken to be with the Lord in likely a few short months. The rest will then have to endure the coming dark hour and many will decide. Now is the time of salvation. Our Lord will soon reign over the Earth.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” John 3:16-17 NKJV

watchmanjim
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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Mar 2, 2017 10:37:44 GMT -6

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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 2, 2017 10:37:44 GMT -6

Definitely studying this out in detail. I'm looking for the other sign, the red dragon, and how that will appear. I have a hunch that the August 21 solar eclipse may reveal the dragon-- perhaps unexpectedly even to astronomers.

I John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Mar 6, 2017 10:12:15 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 10:12:15 GMT -6

On Google Sky and Wikisky part of the virgo constellation is hidden... I wonder what's behind it... You make a good point about the eclipse... when the sun goes dark in August will the red dragon show up (whatever that may be) ?

watchmanjim Lamplighter Being more than a conqueror through Him who loved us. Posts: 2,132	The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Mar 6, 2017 16:22:58 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by watchmanjim on Mar 6, 2017 16:22:58 GMT -6 Yikes! Why is it blanked out? What are they hiding? And is any other part of the sky blanked out? Why this one little spot?
	I John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

watchmanjim Lamplighter Being more than a conqueror through Him who loved us. Posts: 2,132	The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Mar 14, 2017 6:05:58 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by watchmanjim on Mar 14, 2017 6:05:58 GMT -6 Gary, in regards to your article about the Reds and Cubs game, I would encourage you to also consider the names of the two teams, and the color of the sky.
	I John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0	The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Mar 14, 2017 10:24:38 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 10:24:38 GMT -6 Oh I think that might have been Greg, but I'm not sure if he's on the forums.

watchmanjim Lamplighter Being more than a conqueror through Him who loved us. Posts: 2,132	The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Mar 14, 2017 17:48:35 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by watchmanjim on Mar 14, 2017 17:48:35 GMT -6 Mar 14, 2017 10:24:38 GMT -6 @willt86 said: Oh I think that might have been Greg, but I'm not sure if he's on the forums. oops my bad.
	I John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 13, 2017 7:37:28 GMT -6

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Post by starofbethlehem on Apr 13, 2017 7:37:28 GMT -6

The idea that the Lion has nine stars is quite unhistorical. The asterisms (the stars connected with lines) are modern. We do not have any ancient asterisms, so we cannot tell exactly what stars were included. However, all depictions of the constellation Lion shows a lion with four feet and a tail going straight back. I have researched how the Babylonians saw the Lion. It turns out that they have telling names for the stars, such as the Lions rear foot. The Lions rear foot is Zavijava, which today is the first star of the virgin. Two front feet are also mentioned. The tail of the Lion is Denebola. Thus the Lion is firmly above the Woman's head.

In my book, "The Star of Bethlehem and Babylonian Astrology" I have redrawn the Lion based on the information as to what stars are located where in the Lion. I get at 12 star Lion. Thus, no one can say that the Lion + three planets are "the crown". It is more likely that the crown is the Lion as such, since the asterism produced with help of Babylonian star names is similar to the (very) few images we have of the constellation. At any rate the asterism used in this article differs clearly from ancient images.

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 13, 2017 8:56:34 GMT -6 watchmanjim likes this

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Post by Gary on Apr 13, 2017 8:56:34 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2017 7:37:28 GMT -6 starofbethlehem said:

For starters, the Bible is a Hebrew-centric book, not Babylonian, and God is the God of all people for that matter. I'm not particularly concerned with how the ancient Babylonians pictured Leo, especially since 'Babylon' is frequently employed throughout Scripture as the antithesis of Jerusalem and the symbol of all that is wrong and deceitful in the world.

If the sign of Revelation 12 is for our generation (which I believe it is), then the question is, how many stars would people today say Leo has? A simple Google search shows nine stars in the majority of images. On top of that, 9 (and alternatively 15 if you include minor stars) is the official number per the IAU and is the number in the Western sky culture, which is the most prevalent in the world today. Other sky cultures also show 9. This common understanding of nine stars is easily discernible because you can see it in most any planetarium software. Whether it be Stellarium, Starry Night, Neave, In-The-Sky, etc. In fact, Google Sky was the only one I could find that didn't go with the standard nine stars, but added a bunch of minor stars. The ancient Egyptians, which would have been far more influential on the ancient Hebrews then the the proto-Babylonians, had the same 9 stars we have today + plus 1, and this is also reflected in the shape of the famous Sphinx. The truth of the matter is, there was great ambiguity in the ancient world and no IAUs or astronomical/astrological bodies to make anything official.

The sky and the stars are the LORD's and the fullness thereof. This debate reminds me a bit of the old Gnostic debates. The select group thought they were privvy to greater knowledge and the revealing of mysteries through their knowledge, yet God is the God of all people and He is not the author of confusion. You're average Joe can decipher the things of God if He approaches Him with a humble heart. It's about humility, not some secret or hard-to-obtain knowledge from an ancient empire that died out 2500 years ago.

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 13, 2017 9:33:22 GMT -6

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Post by starofbethlehem on Apr 13, 2017 9:33:22 GMT -6

Dear Gary,

Leo has 13 stars in the asterism provided at their homepage: www.iau.org/public/images/detail/leo/

I am very eager to see the list of Egyptian asterisms. To my knowledge no such list exists. Please prove me wrong! It will be very interesting to see their Lion as a sfinx considering that they have drawn it as a walking lion with tail back...

It is not the word of God that the Virgin's crown consists of nine stars and three planets. That is something some people have made up to make the picture work. A proper investigation shows that the Lion probably had twelve stars at that time, and if the lion is intended, those are the stars John is referring to.

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 13, 2017 10:04:20 GMT -6 Gary likes this

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Post by watchmanjim on Apr 13, 2017 10:04:20 GMT -6

The Holy Spirit shows me that this time period we are in today is indeed the time when this Great Sign is intended, for there are many other prophecies that are coming to pass all at the same time. The Jupiter part nails it, and the planets completing the 12 stars is what is meant-- all this only happens now, and lines up with all the other prophecies of the Bible as far as I can tell.

This year:

"Peace and Safety" Top world officials using this phrase massively. John Kerry, B. Netanyahu.
Egypt's famine and civil war beginning, drying up of the Nile beginning, per Isaiah 19
Warfare in Syria as shown in Isaiah 17 and elsewhere.
Devastating battle in Mosul (Nineveh) per Nahum
Rise and stirring of Russia, the bear, and China, the leopard, of Daniel 7
Rise of Ethiopian diplomacy, per Isaiah 18
Eclipse across America
Moving of Israeli capitol to Jerusalem, to be recognized by USA and Russia.
Gog coalition forming up-- Russia, Iran, Turkey, Libya
Psalm 83 coalition uniting-- Hamas, Hezbolah, Isis, Moslem Bro.hood, El Qaeda, etc.
Many signs in the heavens lining up with the next 7-8 years.

And more. This is the right time. If it is not exactly as we think it is, then it's a matter of misinterpreting the data and being off by a factor.

I John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 13, 2017 11:09:33 GMT -6 watchmanjim likes this

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Post by Gary on Apr 13, 2017 11:09:33 GMT -6

Apr 13, 2017 9:33:22 GMT -6 starofbethlehem said:

Thanks for sharing that. I was mistaken about the IAU, so thank you for correcting me. As it turns out, their designations are more complicated than I thought. In summary:

1. The IAU has no set number of "official" stars in a constellation. It's not 9 and it's not 13 either. The IAU only "officially" designates the coordinates of the boundaries of each of the 88 constellations for purposes of naming the stars and navigation. The organization does not recognize any constellation lines as official: LINK

2. The artwork that the IAU uses on the page you linked to is a slightly revised take on H.A. Rey's alternative constellation artwork, which is in fairly common use, but is the minority artwork in use today. H.A. Rey's original artwork gave Leo 15 stars, while the IAU artwork examples removed two of those stars to leave 13. Again, neither of these are official per IAU standards as they only recognize asterisms by a set number of stars, not constellations.

3. As far as officially named stars are concerned, the IAU only names eight in Leo: LINK

4. The common/traditional/western sky culture gives Leo exactly nine stars. So it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me to say that Leo has nine stars, because what you'll usually find is... [drum roll]... nine stars. It seems like fairly common knowledge. It's reflected in most astronomy programs (again Stellarium, Starry Night, Neave, and the majority of others), most images of Leo that your common Joe can find, and also on the Wikipedia article about Leo: LINK

5. As Leo is the only constellation directly over Virgo's head, and John plainly says what he sees is a sign in the sky, then suggesting Leo has more than twelve stars means the prophecy could never be fulfilled, so I think we can safely rule out H.A. Rey's artwork or any derivative thereof.

Arguing over how many stars Leo has seems like a fairly fruitless effort to me. Who is right? The Babylonians? The Greeks? The Persians? The Egyptians? The Jews? It's doubtful that any of their ancient artwork would agree. The truth is that there are way more than twelve visible stars in any given constellation and as you've pointed out: constellation artwork is subjective. No one is standing around to say those astronomers are wrong and these are right. All we can ultimately do is try to derive some sort of common meaning from the constellations in a way that fits with God's word. Some stars stand out. Some stars are brighter than others. Leo is commonly understood to have nine stars. Most people investigating this question will find nine stars. If God wanted to communicate the number of stars in Leo to the world today, the clearest and most unambiguous number to communicate would be nine.

Regarding the Egyptian Leo, I simply used astronomy software and switched from the traditional/common artwork (where again, Leo has nine stars), to the Egyptian artwork, where Leo has an additional bright star where its front paws would be. This fits with the shape of the Sphinx, but again I'm not concerned with that, because it doesn't really matter what the Egyptians thought insofar as their artwork was different than the Babylonians.

It is not the word of God that the Virgin's crown consists of nine stars and three planets. That is something some people have made up to make the picture work. A proper investigation shows that the Lion probably had twelve stars at that time, and if the lion is intended, those are the stars John is referring to.

I'm enjoying hearing from you and appreciate your Bethlehem Star theory - I think it is very interesting and may corroborate what the Bible says, but if you can please refrain from statements like this (per board rule #3). Keep in mind that some of the people you are referring to in this statement would be me and others on this forum and Scott Clarke and a number of our other brothers and sisters in Christ. We could all be wrong or we could all be right - we're all just trying to humbly discern God's Word as best we can, but I don't think it helps to dismiss everyone's thoughts with whom you disagree by a statement of "it's not the word of God" or "some people are just making it up" when it comes to a subject that the Bible is 100% silent on (i.e. the number of stars in Leo). I'm sure I'm guilty of statements like that too in times past, but I want to avoid them as much as possible, so that Believers can feel free and welcome to dialogue here without fear of invalidation. Hope that makes sense and I mean it in the kindest way possible.

Gary
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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 13, 2017 11:33:06 GMT -6 watchmanjim likes this

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Post by Gary on Apr 13, 2017 11:33:06 GMT -6

Also, as this unobstructed and high-resolution image of Leo shows, the eight brightest stars are the same eight found in the most prevalent/traditional artwork. The ninth star, Rasalas, is slightly less bright than two others not found in the common artwork, but it happens to be part of the famous Leo sickle, which includes stars found in virtually every depiction of Leo, both modern and ancient. In other words, the common artwork includes the eight brightest stars, and the 11th brightest, but Rasalas is found in all ancient and modern artwork, so its inclusion is a no-brainer:

Last Edit: Apr 13, 2017 11:41:46 GMT -6 by Gary

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The Revelation 12 Sign Compendium Apr 17, 2017 9:27:48 GMT -6 watchmanjim likes this

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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 9:27:48 GMT -6

Gary, I think you make a really good case for nine stars, because at the end of the day there are different sources that give different numbers, but nine is the most widely agreed on number of stars.

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EnochWalked: scitechdaily.com/new-ai-tool-tracks-your-steps-by-reading-the-bacteria-you-carry/ "University’s mGPS AI tool traces recent locations based on microbial signatures, aiding forensics and epidemiology by linking bacteria to specific geographic origins" Nov 20, 2024 10:51:56 GMT -6

EnochWalked: drivesncontrols.com/schaeffler-plans-to-deploy-humanoid-robots-in-plants-around-the-world/ "We are excited to welcome Schaeffler as a customer and investor" "scaling the use of humanoid robots will require them to work cooperatively with humans" Nov 20, 2024 11:01:27 GMT -6

EnochWalked: Also Schaeffler: www.just-auto.com/news/schaeffler-layoff-employees-in-europe/ "the job cuts will result in a gross reduction of about 4,700 positions" "The majority of these measures are scheduled to be implemented between 2025 and 2027." Nov 20, 2024 11:02:33 GMT -6

EnochWalked: www.nj.com/politics/2024/11/is-trump-trying-to-kill-us-authoritarian-expert-says-yes.html "There are 5 key areas that authoritarians want to control when they attempt to decapitate a democratic state" "the goal is to... create chaos— and yes, death" Nov 20, 2024 14:20:51 GMT -6

EnochWalked: kyivindependent.com/secret-russian-plan-sees-ukraine-cut-into-3-parts-intelligence-source-confirms/ "Russia may try to convey to U.S. leadership its plan for a new world order up to the year 2045". "undermine U.S. power over global transactions" Nov 21, 2024 5:46:07 GMT -6

EnochWalked: www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/21/australia-proposes-32m-fine-for-social-media-firms-flouting-under-16s-ban "The country plans to trial an age-verification system that may include biometrics or government identification". Which applies to everyone. Nov 21, 2024 5:55:20 GMT -6

EnochWalked: "And in Florida, in the United States, children under 14 will be banned from opening social media accounts under a new law due to come into force in January." Only banned from registering? So a child just has to use a VPN once, at registration time? Nov 21, 2024 5:59:47 GMT -6

EnochWalked: www.ynetnews.com/article/sym6v45gjg "'Water is more precious than gold here': Turkey's strikes on Syria's Kurds cut water supply to 1 million" "leaders accuse Turkey of attempted 'genocide' while legal experts suggest strikes may constitute crime" Nov 21, 2024 6:35:35 GMT -6

EnochWalked: x.com/uapjames/status/1859390108627238950 'Rep. Nancy Mace has discussed UFO Disclosure with incoming Trump Administration officials. "Some kind of controlled disclosure, you don’t have to say everything, but the American people... deserve answers"' Nov 21, 2024 6:43:00 GMT -6

EnochWalked: data.bls.gov/timeseries/JTS000000000000000LDR Since the start of 2021, the "Layoffs and discharges" rate has hit 1.2 on only 3 occasions: Jan-2023, Mar-2023, and Sep-2024 (which is the most recent month for which there are data). 3/45 months. Nov 21, 2024 7:37:27 GMT -6

EnochWalked: So next month we may see if 1.2 is the "new normal" (actually a reversion to the levels seen before the pandemic), or if the numbers are starting to creep up. Ignoring 2020, the level only reached 1.4 twice in the past 10 years (both in 2015). Nov 21, 2024 7:42:04 GMT -6