Conversation about the rapture timing

venge, just a few things. First, I agree 100% with you about the people who make predictions that the rapture will happen on some random date- Barry Awe, and Brenda Weltner and the "dragon system" guy are the 3 that i know of.🤯 It hurts their testimony for sure.

Sharing the words of Christ and Paul, and other writers and showing the patterns over and over through scripture that the rapture is at Feast of Trumpets is not making a prediction.

You've mentioned 2x in this thread about the "Thief in the Night", but Paul explicitly said that we are NOT children of darkness so that day will not surprise us like a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 5:4
Most don't realize that this is an ancient and documented Hebrew idiom that was in use before Christ and it is an explicit reference to the captain of the Temple Guard.
He came through at night and looked for those asleep on their watch.😱
He lit their robes on fire and they threw them off running into the court in their charred boxerbriefs.
It's the same kind of people that Paul said explicitly are Children of Darkness.
This is the same kind of wicked/foolish people who dont know the hour-[Christ rebuked the 5 foolish/wicked bridesmaids because THEY did not know the hour. [The others did.]
🤔 This is also to the "dead church at Sardis- who Christ rebuked and told them to repent. If they didn't-- the punishment was that he would come on them like a thief in the night.

Lastly, can you cite the passage that says the heavens have to shake/ dissolve before the rapture??
[One of the fundamental reasons for the confusion and very different views on this topic is due to the belief that the rapture and the Second coming are one and the same.]
I dont say that to disparage you or anyone but to simply make the point that there are no verses that say these things happen before the harpazo.
Blessings.


Disciple4life

Can I cite it? Yes. Will I? No. I'd rather you search it out and let the spirit testify, rightly dividing.  That way, when you find it, it would be exciting that the Lord lead you to it.

We are grown men D4L. I already know how you think and don't care to discuss this with you. The reason being that we have done this many times before and youve shown your colors by leaving little bits here and there in various posts over the years that nitpick on anything you oppose.  Example:

As injecting the statement "not a beating" to laugh and scorn anyone not Pre-TB. You consistently do this and it is not Holy, undefiled, loving behavior. It is constant childish behavior that you think is a joke. The sad part part is, that you believe it. (EDIT: as it's the ONLY way, but don't forget many others do not) You can't understand the reason or the logic behind certain principles (things outside Pre-TB may not make sense to you) thereby the only conceivable rationality is, is that you must be right.  Then you try to engage with the same people that believe different then you when your "nitpick" comments litter the forums. I'm sorry. I'm no longer interested in talking to you. It will go nowhere. To avoid any anger or frustration on the forums, which I do not want, it is better if we don't converse at all then to continue and cause friction and an attitude unbecoming a Christian. We are to model love and peace. There is none of that when a conversation is created in order to drive a wedge in it. 

Note that I am not alone on this either. There are a few others on the forums over the years that have noticed what I posted above and I have spoken to them over the years on this "nitpicking" in various posts/threads/topics. It is not good to play advocate and later on, enemy. (EDIT: BTW, You don't come off aggressive D4L. You actually have a certain southern charm, which can be a good quality. And you like to engage with people. But there seems to be an issue with those that are in disagreement with your own beliefs. And the obviousness of it. None of us are perfect. I have my errors that I deal with. They have been brought my attention over my lifetime. Some I've grown from, others I'm still working out. But I don't plan to go backwards in this conversation when I'm striving forward.) 

mike , this is a great subject and a great thread. As I mentioned in my previous posting, there appears to be multiple times (in or near the 7 years of tribulation) that the Savior personally gets involved in the events upon the earth. So I am going to number the order of paragraphs so that they can be read from beginning to ending, or, you can read it from the ending to the beginning as I am writing it. I am working backwards because it is easier for me to see the chronological order that way.

4) Of course the easiest event that we are familiar with is the rapture wherein saints are taken from the earth; to, IMO, New Jerusalem that descends at a later time as noted in Rev. 21:1-3. That is, the saints are taken in the rapture to the holy city to wait out the destruction upon the earth as noted in Rev. 16:18:21. So, technically, the saints only need to be taken during that time of destruction and not before. That is, the saints need to be taken at or after the 7th trumpet as noted in Rev. 16:17 to protect them from the complete destruction upon the earth. For that reason it is my opinion that the actual rapture takes place at the end of the 7 years but before the 7th trumpet.

3) Working backwards from that ending we see the Savior standing with the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1) prior to the harvest at Rev. 14:14-16. This means that Chapter 7 (in part) precedes Chapter 14 in the chronological order of these chapters. So what happens at Chapter 7 but the gathering of the 144,000 followed by the gathering of saints as noted in Rev. 7:9. That is, the order of events appears to be, 1) the gathering of the 144,000 (Rev. 7:4-8) followed by 2) the gathering of saints (Rev. 7:9). However, at Chapter 14 the 144,000 are clearly gathered (Rev. 14:1) and the saints are gathered in the harvest (Rev. 14:14-16). So the order appears to be that the 144,000 are gathered (vv. 7:4-8), followed by the 144,000 standing with Christ (v. 14:1), followed by the gathering of saints (vv. 7:9, 14:14-16).

In other words, Verse 7:9 appears to be the harvest. Further, Verse 7:9 links to Rev. 19:6 showing that the marriage is with the larger group and not only the 144,000. So it appears that the 144,000 are gathered (v. 7:4-8), followed by the 144,000 standing with Christ (v. 14:1), followed by the harvest (vv. 7:9, 14:14-16) followed by the marriage (Rev. 19:7-8, 7:13-14). As you can see there are two times that the Savior is with his saints in these verses the first of which is while He stands with the 144,000 prior to the gathering of saints in the harvest, and secondly after the harvest when He attends the marriage and this is the rapture!!! Actually, I think that the 144,000 are with Christ in New Jerusalem and then at some point after the rapture the marriage takes place in New Jerusalem. There are several moving parts but this seems to make sense. This may also be noted at Rev. 14:15 wherein the angel came out of the temple meaning that the temple was opened for the marriage. A similar notation is given at Rev. 15:5 that also indicates the rapture. A lot of exploration could be made here. 

Please do not get off track by the placement of the warfare following the marriage in Chapter 19. It simply shows that the army of God (Rev. 19:19) is engaged in putting down the beast after they have gathered the saints to the marriage. Please notice that they, the fouls, are flying in the midst of heaven just as that angel had been flying through the midst of heaven. That is, flying in the midst of heaven is the act of going throughout the earth gathering saints. It shows that the 144,000 are with the angel in the capacity of gathering saints as noted in Rev. 8:13, 14:6-7, and Verse 19:17.

In other words, because the marriage took place earlier in the chapter, then the 144,000 are no longer gathering saints but are now engaged in warfare with the beast and this becomes quite clear at Rev. 19:21. This warfare is noted in Chapter 9 wherein the 6th angel is told to release the 4 angels that are bound in the great river Euphrates. That is, the 4 angels that were told to wait in Chapter 7 are now "not bound" to the restriction as stated in Rev. 7:1-3. And why are they no longer bound by that restriction? Because the saints have been gathered in the harvest and are soon to be protected via the marriage.

That is, the 144,000 who gathered the saints in Rev. 8:13 that has it's actual application at Rev. 9:4 are now going to put down the beast and his army in the second woe of Chapter 9. I have to laugh because this could get very confusing to anyone reading what I am writing. Okay, so look at it this way, the 144,000 have been gathered (vv. 7:4-8) and then they gather the saints of God in the harvest (v. 9:4) as well as destroying the beast (Rev. 9:15) and that is the 1st and 2nd woes of Chapter 9 and is noted as the harvest in Verses 14:14-16. In other words, the harvest (vv. 14:14-16) involves gathering saints to the marriage (1st woe) and secondly putting down the beast (2nd woe). The are the 1st and 2nd woes because the 144,000 are going throughout the earth laying waste to the wicked; 1st as they gather saints, and 2nd as they destroy the beast and his army. Remember that the 5th and 6th trumpets that are the 1st and 2nd woes are judgments of God.

Okay, this of Chapter 9 is covered in Chapter 19 and is the harvest of Verses 14:14-16. So where is the Savior in Chapter 9 but with the saints as noted in Chapter 19. I hope this long explanation of Chapter 19 is not to confusing. Sorry about that. So as you can see, the rapture precedes the destruction of the beast as noted in Chapters 9 and 19 and is included in Verses 14:14-16. This is also shown in Chapter 16 wherein the armies are gathered to Armageddon prior to the 7th angel. It means that the marriage takes place in Chapter 15, and, that Chapter 15 is a rapture chapter.

Please notice that the temple is critical in Chapter 15. That at Rev. 15:5 the temple is opened and then at Rev. 15:8 the temple is closed. That is, the door was closed. That is, the door was closed like the door of Noah's Ark as well as the door in The Parable of the Ten Virgins. And it is then that the city of New Jerusalem has within it's walls the saints that were saved in mortality like Noah and his family was saved in mortality. Thus we have the 7 days like the 7 bowls. Like, the rapture takes place over a 7 day period of time and that is the emphasis of the bowls. That may appear to be far fetched but the logic evolves from the temple being opened and then closed in Chapter 15. How long was it open? And, does this association support this conclusion? This might be a fun avenue of research when I have some extra time.

Since Chapter 15 is a rapture chapter and it links to Chapter 4 in the common rhetoric of these two chapters then Chapter 4 is also a rapture chapter. Actually, most people already have made the connection that Chapter 4 is a rapture chapter, and it is from this vantage point that the pre-rapture doctrine gains it's support. However, as I have show, Chapter 4 supports Chapter 15 and not the other way around. That is, Chapter 15 is the result of the gathering of saints and their rapture to the temple whereas Chapter 4 pertains exclusively to the 144,000. In other words, the 144,000 are gathered to Mt. Zion as shown in Rev. 14:1 and that is Chapter 4. Mt. Zion being metaphor for New Jerusalem. Then the saints are gathered and taken to New Jerusalem in the rapture. This line of thinking supports the two instances that the Savior is with His saints as noted above: 1st at Rev. 14:1 and 2nd at Rev. 19:9. First at Chapter 4 and secondly at Chapter 15. However, the Chapter 4 experience is the gathering of the 144,000 that are sent out to gather the saints in the harvest. Two gatherings as I have indicated above. This is supported by Rev. 12:6, 14 wherein two gatherings take place. Again, the first is referenced in Chapter 4 and the second is in Chapter 15.

From this it is reasonable that the opening of the seals, except for the 7th seal, that reside between Chapters 4 and 7 occurs after the 144,000 are taken to New Jerusalem. For me this conclusion is way out there but it does exist. It is like the text is saying that the entire story of the seals supports the 144,000 being gathered to New Jerusalem. Like there is some disconnect between Chapters 4 and 5 that spins around only to return to Chapter 4 at Chapter 7. And, in the process of time the seals can be observed. Yes. It is saying that the 144,000 or some of that group exist before the seals, and that those who come after the seals delay the destruction as I have explained above. From this it may be the case that the 144,000 come from different periods of time here upon the earth. Some from the 1st 1,000 years and on unto the 6th 1,000 years. And that the seals, although representative of latter day events, also represent the periods of time from which the 144,000 are derived.

Sorry about going off on that tangent and I hope you enjoy the read.

Thank you venge for reading that entire post.   It was a fun exercise and I will try to address your responses.

1) Venge said: Where does scripture state we are taken off world or to New Jerusalem? We know that New Jerusalem descends to the earth (Rev. 21:2) and that it is prepared as a bride (the church) adorned for her husband (Rev. 21:3). Also, that Jesus is there in that city when it returns (Rev. 21:3, 22) and that he is with men, and women. It follows then that when Jesus took the saints in the rapture then they arrived at the city of New Jerusalem; because, they are in that city when it descends to the earth. Further, the angel states that he will show John the bride, the Lamb's wife (Rev. 21:9) and then he takes John to see the holy city New Jerusalem descending out of heaven (Rev. 21:10).

2) I said in my previous post: This means that Chapter 7 (in part) precedes Chapter 14 in the chronological order of these chapters. Venge said:How do we know they arnt the same event or a continuance of the same event?)? The reason that they are not is that the 144,000 are gathered (Rev. 7:4-8) and then they stand with Christ at Mt. Zion (Rev. 14:1). Or we can say that the 144,000 are not sealed (Rev. 7:3) and then they are sealed (Rev. 7:4-8) and then they stand with Christ as Mt. Zion (Rev. 14:1). No matter how this is looked at, the 144,000 must first be gathered to Mt. Zion in order to stand with Christ at Mt. Zion. So it follows that they were gathered first , and then they are sealed (Rev. 7:4-8), and after having been sealed they stand with Christ at Mt. Zion (Rev. 14:1).

So while your point is well taken that they could have been at Mt. Zion in Verses 7:3-8, they were not sealed in Verse 7:3 and this shows that Rev. 7:3 precedes Rev. 14:1. venge you are like a drill Sargent.    In conclusion they may be the same event but Verse 7:3 comes first where the 144,000 are not sealed, and secondly Verses 7:4-8 where the 144,000 are sealed and 14:1 where the 144,000 have been sealed. From the question that you posed, it is then possible that Chapter 7 takes place at New Jerusalem.

3) I said in my previous post: flying in the midst of heaven is the act of going throughout the earth gathering saints. Venge said: sometimes the wicked are as birds of prey; sometimes the flying designates speed; all depends on context. My assertion is based upon the action of the angel in Rev. 14:6-7 who had the gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth and secondly that the angel announced the judgment. This action of the angel in Verses 14:6-7 appears to be repeated in Chapter 19 that the preaching of the gospel has resulted in the marriage, and following that is a judgment of destruction upon the beast and his army. That is, the angel announces two things in Verses 14:6-7 that is 1) the preaching of the gospel followed by 2) the judgment. And Chapter 19 addresses two things that are 1) the marriage and 2) the destruction of the beast. From this association I have concluded that 1) the preaching of the gospel results in the marriage and 2) the judgment results in the destruction of the beast.

The second part of this association is supported in Rev. 14:8-11 wherein the beast causes the fall of Babylon and then his people have destruction in their future. However, the first part of the association is supported from the fact that Chapter 14 is about the 144,000 with Christ, and the harvest at Rev. 14:14-16. Thus, it follows that the Judgment that is upon those who follow the beast is in Rev. 14:17-20. In other words, there are two things going on in Chapter 14 that is the harvest and the destruction upon the followers of the beast. Thus, the gospel being preached (v. 14:6) pertains to the harvest (vv. 14:14-16), and the judgment (v. 14:7) pertains to the winepress (vv. 14:17-20). These two things correspond to the two things that are taking place in Chapter 19 as stated above.

So while your point is that the fouls might be the wicked being called to destroy the wicked (Rev. 19:17), there is no reference to that condition existing in Chapter 14. Also, these fouls are flying in the midst of heaven (Rev. 19:17) just like the angel was flying in the midst of heaven (Rev. 14:6). From this it is reasonable that the fouls are the 144,000 who are gathering the saints to the marriage via preaching the gospel and then they are called to engage the beast in the gathering to the winepress. Please notice that it is the winepress that results from the gathering in Rev. 14:17-20. Thus, the 144,000 are engaged in the harvest gathering and the winepress gathering. Thus, the fouls that fly through heaven (Rev. 19:17) like the angel flying through heaven (Rev. 14:6) are the 144,000.

4) Continuing, I said: "In other words, the harvest (vv. 14:14-16) involves gathering saints to the marriage (1st woe) and secondly putting down the beast (2nd woe)." And venge said: "(IMHO, the beast exists till Christ destroys it at his coming. 2: Christ said when he comes into his Kingdom, he would remove all workers of iniquity from it. Rev 11 backs that up after the saints are rewarded that he goes to destroy those that destroy the earth. This happens after the 2nd woe." This is at the heart of the subject matter to which we are exploring. So going back to Chapter 14 we have two conditions being met the first of which is the harvest of saints at Rev. 14:14-16 and the second is the gathering of the wicked to the winepress (Rev. 14:17-20) and this is the first and second woes of Chapter 9. This does not mean that the Savior destroys the wicked in Chapter 9, but that these wicked are gathered, and in the process something like one third of these wicked are destroyed (Rev. 9:15).

Thus, in the process of the gathering of the wicked to the winepress, one third of the wicked are destroyed (v. 9:15). However, it is not the winepress but the gathering to the winepress that is taking place in Chapter 9. That is, the gathering of saints that is the first woe, that is five months in length (Rev. 9:5, 10), results in destructions upon the wicked and this is followed by a large gathering of the wicked (Rev. 9:16) wherein one third are destroyed and this is the second woe. Then, following that, the Savior does the ending winepress in the third woe in Chapter 11.

So, I stand corrected from my previous statement, and the order appears to be: 1) harvest of the saints that is the first woe of Chapter 9 and referenced at Rev. 14:14-16 that results in the marriage as noted in Rev. 19:9 as well as Rev. 7:9-17, and 2) the gathering of the wicked in the second woe of Chapter 9 and referenced at Rev. 14:17-20 and Rev. 19:11-21, and 3) the winepress wherein the Savior conducts the final destruction of the wicked as noted in the third woe as well as in Rev. 14:20, 16:18-21. So this addresses your point that the beast is destroyed in the third woe and not the second.

5) I said: "Remember that the 5th and 6th trumpets that are the 1st and 2nd woes are judgments of God." And Venge said: "(God's army destroys the beast during the bowls. The Trumpets don't affect God's people. They affect the wicked. (Come out of her my people so that you do not experience her punishments; if you did not live in her, you would still remain and not feel her punishments just as Moses and his people saw all the things happen in Egypt and it didnt affect them) Trumpets were never used as wrath. They are used to sound an incoming danger to prepare for wrath; and they were used to call an assembly to prepare yourselves for God. They had a few other uses too, but the context of the trumpets themselves denotes danger (the 3 woe's that have yet to sound). Breaking down of the earth, shaking it so that there is nothing left. He says once more I will not just shake the earth but the heavens also so that what remains is unshakable (the mountain of God aka. Messianic Kingdom of Daniel. A rock that smashes the statues feet and grows into a giant mountain that covers the face of the earth) and will endure forever. And imho, that is the context of the Trumpets Bora."

Venge this is a beautiful point that you have made. God's army destroys the beast during the bowls and from this I must conclude that the bowls might have an application to the woes. Perhaps they span all three woes or just the 2nd and 3rd, or perhaps the 2nd or 3rd only. It looks like they could be exclusively in the 2nd woe. Secondly, as you have stated, God calls his people out of Babylon (Rev. 18:4), and this seems to indicate that Babylon falls sometime before the 2nd woe. I can see the gathering of saints in the 1st woe at Rev. 9:4, so the Verse 18:4 call must have come prior to that time. In fact, I think the Verse 18:4 call pertains to the seals wherein the 144,000 are called out but it may also apply to the gathering of saints in the 1st woe. At any rate the call (v. 18:4) ends up with the saints having been removed to Mt. Zion, that I think is the city of New Jerusalem. If I am correct then the gathering of saints at the first woe begins at the midpoint and not at the very end of the 7 years. This is a hard decision to make between the mid and post trib rapture, but the pre-trib rapture is clearly wrong. So the mid point may very well begin at the trumpets making the trumpets 3.5 years and perhaps 5 months before that (?). It is clear as you have said the trumpets do not affect God's people and they must be gone at or before the 1st woe IMO.

6) Venge this is so funny to me because I knew someone would have to bite on Chapter 15 being a rapture chapter. I said: "that Chapter 15 is a rapture chapter." And you said: "(where is the rapture in Ch. 15?)" 

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mike ,venge ,disciple4life ,boraddict , sog , TrumpetsTX , inaweofhim , barbiosheepgirl , boymaker3 , tennessean

Ive had some time to think and look at multiple passages.


Just lost an hour of work studying and taking notes and typing.   Uggghhhhhhhh. 

( In my original reply, 2 hrs ago - I addressed this point to Bora. ;-)  boraddict said  "Venge this is so funny to me because I knew someone would have to bite on Chapter 15 being a rapture chapter. I said: "that Chapter 15 is a rapture chapter." And you said: "(where is the rapture in Ch. 15?)"  

I followed some of it, boraddict , but couldn't follow all of it.  I totally agree that Revelation 4 is a very clear rapture passage, but i don't understand what you mean by 15 is a rapture passage, and specifically, that 15 supports 4.  ?  
The cool thing is that not only does Rev 4 give support to a pre-trib rapture, but there are at least 4 elements that are unmistakable references to Feast of Trumpets just in Revelation 4:1-2  , which perfectly agrees with the clues given by Paul, John and Christ himself.   
   

So, in summary, - if we look at the 2 most quintessential and universally-used and understood passages about the rapture/harpazo, [I Corinthians 15:50-52 and I Thessalonians 4:13-18 there is nothing in either of these passages about the heavens being shaken or destroyed. 


In this same passage - I Thessalonians  - End of Chapter 4 and beginning of chapter 5,  the Christians in Thessalonica were confused about the end times and distressed by the death of fellow believers.  

• In I Thess 4:13-18, he describes the rapture/ harpazo, and ends this section with encourage one another with these words.  
• **notice that the Phrase Day of the Lord is not used at all in this section.   
• Then, in I Thess 5:1-10, Paul describes the Day of the Lord (Second Coming) and explicitly describes this with destruction, and says "They will not escape".  
• Who is he talking about?  The Children of Darkness.  It's the very next words.   He tells the believers, that You are not children of darkness, but children of Light, so that day will not surprise you like a thief in the night.     - No random, any day, surprise event for Christians.   
• In this very passage - where he talks about destruction of the unbelievers, and the "Thief in the night" on them -  [well-known Hebrew idiom for the Captain of the Temple guard, who came through the temple at night, looking for guards asleep on their watch, and set their clothes on fire] he tells them that we are not destined for wrath, but for salvation,   I Thessalonians 5:9   and 
• ends this section again with the words - therefore, encourage one another with these words.      

 

Hello Mike,  others,  
I want to answer as clearly and briefly as I can - with the acknowlegement that I'm a watchman, doing the best i can to rightly divide the word, and gleaning from so many others here.    A lot of things I just don't know enough to answer, or don't feel that i have a firm grasp on. 

I hope this helps - and again, I want to take a different approach - trying to identify the big 4 issues, and think about how i could be wrong.  and others may see 6 big pillars, and they might all see different elements.   

    @Mike said "Can you provide further detail as to why Rev 4 is a clear rapture passage? Do you see the context of the verse(s) being discussed are sepcifically to John and     not the body of Christ? If you see it as to the entire body please explain? There are many other areas in Rev where the church is addressed as a collective, but in the verses     in ch.4 I do not see the church being spoken of but John is being shown specifics to write down.
    - Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I     will show you what must take place after this. 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne."
    Chapter 1,2,3 are written to the churches in the locale described, possibly (and likely) event to those 'dispensations' where we seemingly find ourselves as the church of     Laodicea today. Chapter 4 & 5 change scenery to heaven, where I do not see mention of the church. Am I missing it? For the sake of argument the 24 elders are not the     church in the text. While I know its debatable its not what the text says and is a stretch when others say its the church. The true answer is we simply do not know at this     time.

    The first mention that I see regarding the church is in Chapter 6 at the 5th seal"

- The original manuscripts did not have chapter and verse divisions - they were just one letter/ scroll, and the translators put chapter divisions in to make it easier to reference and find passages.   
- So in Revelation 1-3, we see real letters to real congregations  - 7 congregations in Asia Minor [Turkey] and then we see in 3:22, we see "Let him hear what the spirit says to the churches." and in the very next sentence of the same letter, we see this key passage. 
- It is specifically this verse - Revelation 4:1 that we see a transition.  Jesus is adressing the churches, and then, in this verse, we see the identical key rapture elements that we would expect to see in other major rapture passages - and we do !   

• Voice -/Shout              Matthew 25:1-12 parable of the wedding, 6“But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’  I Thessalonians 4:16. The Lord himself will descend with a shout and the voice of a archangel; Yom Teruah [Feast of Trumpets] is literally Day of Shouting or Blasting.
• Trumpet   Rev 4:1,  the voice is described as like the sound of a trumpet.  I Thes 4:16. with the sound of the trumpet of God. I Cor. 15:51-52. "In the twinkling of an eye, at the Last Trumpet, for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised."   Yom Teruah is Feast of Trumpets, and the Last Trumpet is the 100th blast of the Shofar when the new moon is sighted.  One of the specific types of blasts is an awakeninig blast. 
• Open door.   **The door is an ancient reference to the gates of the temple, being opened for worship.  People working in the fields wouldn't know when the feast began - so the trumpet was used to alert the workers.  The door of the ark was opened,  open for 7 days, then the door was shut. [Judgment - Day of Atonement] In Matthew 25, wedding parable, the door was opened, - 5 wise bridesmaids went in with the groom, and then door was shut.  Judgment.   Genesis 19 Story of Lot/Sodom. - This is important because Sodom and Noah were 2 pictures used by Christ as pictures, parallels of the end times.  **Notice that the door was opened, Noah entered, - the door was opened 7 days - and the door was shut - Judgment. Boom. Genesis 7:4 and 7:10.  Lot/Sodom Genesis 19:10. The angels brought Lot in the door, the door was shut - and instantly - judgment.  
• Come up here.  The scene changes instantly. Jesus is speaking to the churches - Door of heaven open -  "Come up here", boom.  No other mention of the churches till the end of Revelation.  The souls under the alter??   One theory is that these are not the church, but rather the tribulation saints who are martyred.  They have to wait until the other tribulation saints are resurrected at the great white throne judgment.   Noah is lifted up. Genesis 7. I Thess 15:52 Dead will be raised.  I Thess 4:17. Harpazo verse.  Then, we who are alive will be caught up together with them. Harpazo. [snatched up quickly by force]. 2 Kings 2:2-11 Elijah is raptured, caught up quickly by force.  **And 2 times, the passage tells us explicitly that he knew the time of his rapture.  Hmmmm.   Ezek 46:1-2  The Eastern gate of the Inner Court shall be shut the six working days, but on the sabbath [Seventh day] it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon, and the Prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate."    **Feast of Trumpets is the only sabbath on a New Moon.  
• 
  

That's all for now, but I think the scriptures are clear, and the parallels we see in these, IMHO are unmistakable. Hope this is helpful and encouraging.

Disciple4life