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Post by mike on Aug 24, 2021 6:16:15 GMT -6
disciple4life bro we'll still be here beyond Christmas 2021. Stop listening to the date "watchers" who change their theory every time things dont go the way they think they should (Awe, Weltner, Dawson...). Watch & pray until He comes and when He does we'll know it. It wont be a guessing game EDIT - Ive move this part of the conversation from the other thread to continue without derailing the thread about the Feast of Trumpets.
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Post by inaweofhim on Aug 24, 2021 8:34:44 GMT -6
disciple4life bro we'll still be here beyond Christmas 2021. Stop listening to the date "watchers" who change their theory every time things dont go the way they think they should (Awe, Weltner, Dawson...). Watch & pray until He comes and when He does we'll know it. It wont be a guessing game Dear Mike, my brother in Christ, I love you for your faith and heart and dedication to the Word. But I am going to challenge you on your statement "we'll still be here beyond Christmas 2021". How do you KNOW where we will be, even tomorrow? A la James 4:13-15 love ya bro! |
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Post by mike on Aug 24, 2021 11:02:40 GMT -6
disciple4life bro we'll still be here beyond Christmas 2021. Stop listening to the date "watchers" who change their theory every time things dont go the way they think they should (Awe, Weltner, Dawson...). Watch & pray until He comes and when He does we'll know it. It wont be a guessing game Dear Mike, my brother in Christ, I love you for your faith and heart and dedication to the Word. But I am going to challenge you on your statement "we'll still be here beyond Christmas 2021". How do you KNOW where we will be, even tomorrow? A la James 4:13-15 love ya bro! Thats ok...I was not speaking personally or as in "just me and D4L", I mean collectively the church. I would be happy to be wrong but I no longer subscribe to the theory of pre-trib. I have studied many hours, listened to presentations for pre-trib, pre-wrath & post-trib and am confident that we should be diligently watching for signs each and every day, but many of the things we watch are NOT signs. Jesus gave us the signs and the NOT signs. I threw Christmas as a date we will remain until but I am also certain its far beyond that as well, but to circle back to your question as to how I know: While I tend to agree with D4L on the Lord appearing on a feast day and that being most likely the FoT, but its not this year. Wars, rumors of war, pestilence, earthquakes are NOT signs Now I know, I know I'll catch some heat for saying all this but I love the people of God enough to speak up and at the very least challenge some thinking. Herein is my issue with those thinking we will be whisked away before the tribulation...What if that theory is wrong (and I believe it is)? What will those who have placed their faith behind a "non-salvation" issue do when it suddenly becomes a salvation issue because we are faced with severe persecution, as our brothers and sisters are right now in Nigeria, Afghanistan, China, Russia and other areas? I don't need to hear the answer that "pre-trib" is correct "end of story" - I dont want to turn it into a debate on that. Even though I think the church will be present at that moment, and if I am granted days to that time I do not know how I would respond! I think I would be able to confess His name before any man, I then think of Peter...Hoping and praying that my faith not fail in that day Now what I do hope for is that those who are so highly persuaded that we don't go through (any portion of) the tribulation to consider they could be incorrect about and may be looking for something in the wrong place. Ive said this many times and will repeat it What harm does someone do if they consider the resurrection happens in the 3.5 years after the AoD takes place? What have I lost by saying the resurrection is after the AoD, and I'm wrong about it. I would love to be incorrect about this and again do not want to cause strife but rather simply challenge US to go deeper. Jesus showed us the way. He was persecuted, tried, sentenced and killed for doing nothing wrong - yet quite the opposite He did everything right! Yet for some reason we who have escaped much persecution in the "free" world have a lack of ability/understanding to see that. Like the Master we are His students. Many have suffered greatly for Christ through the ages. There is no reason for me to think that wouldnt happen again just before His return. I hope I responded to your challenge in a way that promotes unity and not division or strife. we have enough of that everywhere else we turn each day. |
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Post by mike on Aug 24, 2021 11:20:59 GMT -6
inaweofhimI also recalled another thread where some of this was discussed. I didnt locate it but did locate this one: board.unsealed.org/thread/2489/compelling-rapture-theoryIn the thread all of the videos attributed to the theory are now gone for whatever reason. However in the thread D4L said: She's a false prophet. I wouldnt listen to anything she has to say from that day on. All of her work is trash in her own words! As D4L also said in the thread: And I typically agree with that, but each time a suspected rapture day passes, I tend to trust the source less and less. While I agree we should diligently watch, we shouldnt say "this fall" or another window like many have done (including me) and still do on our site and many others. Also from that thread is my quote: That was back in Feb/March - Just like then, I say the same thing now - we'll be here well into 2022 and beyond. The Lord is coming no doubt, and to the date watchers I say "just keep our eyes on Him everyday!" One day He will come and collect those that are His with most being raised to life and those that remain caught up.
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Post by willard on Aug 24, 2021 13:13:19 GMT -6
I am quoting someone I saw on the new facebook page the other day. "The groom does not beat up the bride before the wedding day". Has to be pre-trib.
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Post by inaweofhim on Aug 24, 2021 14:11:23 GMT -6
Dear Mike, my brother in Christ, I love you for your faith and heart and dedication to the Word. But I am going to challenge you on your statement "we'll still be here beyond Christmas 2021". How do you KNOW where we will be, even tomorrow? A la James 4:13-15 love ya bro! Thats ok...I was not speaking personally or as in "just me and D4L", I mean collectively the church. I would be happy to be wrong but I no longer subscribe to the theory of pre-trib. I have studied many hours, listened to presentations for pre-trib, pre-wrath & post-trib and am confident that we should be diligently watching for signs each and every day, but many of the things we watch are NOT signs. Jesus gave us the signs and the NOT signs. I threw Christmas as a date we will remain until but I am also "certain" its far beyond that as well, but to circle back to your question as to how I know: I hope I responded to your challenge in a way that promotes unity and not division or strife. we have enough of that everywhere else we turn each day. You most certainly responded with grace, dear brother - no divisive, strife-laden words that I took at all. In the Body of Christ are many members, functioning as the LORD purposes for each; yet we remain ONE BODY giving glory to Jesus Christ alone. Perhaps Jesus speaks His words in such a way to challenge us to remain unified in HIM while expressing variety. Like a patchwork quilt, HE is the Redemptive thread that sews us all together. Hallelujah! I hope I am not derailing this thread (funny! Thread - but you know what I mean by this discussion) but I believe, based on my study, that Matt 24:14 will be accomplished during the Tribulation (Rev 14:6,7) And I believe that the book of Matthew was written by a Jew TO Jews specifically about a Jew: Jesus. We Gentiles get the precious benefit of HIS words, but the focus is not for us Gentiles. Consequently, I believe the chapter 24 concerns Jews during the Tribulation, but not the Bride of Christ. Again, my belief - and I listen and consider and study other views; but it always leads me back to a pre-trb belief. I so appreciate all of us graciously listening, and still loving the Body of Christ. Praise God! |
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Post by mike on Aug 24, 2021 14:12:27 GMT -6
I am quoting someone I saw on the new facebook page the other day. "The groom does not beat up the bride before the wedding day". Has to be pre-trib. I think it is short sighted to think that those who are alive at the coming of Christ (or resurrection) to think that way. Are not the people who were burned alive for Christ in the inquisition still a part of the body of Christ? Are they not a part of the 'wedding feast' or marriage supper? Also I will take it a little further for consideration since you asked. I concur that the church is not subject to Gods wrath. I think there are plenty of verses to support that. But I also do not see that God is beating anyone up until after the 6th seal. Prior to that its tribulation, allowed by God but caused by the sinful nature of man, and the enemy of our souls. That statement is silly and not found in any contextual bible application. Again, reiterating - whoever wants to discount other views in favor of pre-trib is their opinion on the theory, but what harm does it take for you (not singling you out willard) to place aside the things you may have been taught, then built on to review the text(s), all of them OT & NT to see for yourself? After that if you arrive at pre-trib, then ok! I did not. |
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Post by venge on Aug 24, 2021 15:34:32 GMT -6
inaweofhim, You said, How do you explain the similarities between Matthew 24 and Paul in Thessalonians? 1. Both passages speak about Jesus coming from heaven – 1 Thess. 4:16 & Matt. 24:30. 2. Both say that there are angels present – 1 Th. 4:16, 3:13 & Matt. 24:31. 3. Both speak about a trumpet call – 1 Thess. 4:16 & Matt. 24:31. 4. Both say believers will be gathered to Jesus – 1 Thess. 4:17 & Matt. 24:31, 40-41. 5. Both mention clouds – 1 Thess. 4:17 & Matt. 24:30. 6. Both say that the time is unknown – 1 Thess. 5:1-2 & Matt. 24:36. 7. Both say that Jesus will come like a thief – 1 Thess. 5:2, 4 & Matt. 24:43. 8. Both say unbelievers will be caught unaware – 1 Thess. 5:3 & Matt. 24:37-39. 9. Both say that believers are to watch – 1 Thess. 5:6 & Matt. 24:42, 25. 10. Both warn against drunkenness – 1 Thess. 5:7 & Matt. 24:49. Also, if Matthew was written by a Jew, for Jews and not really for us, though we can learn from it. Are you suggesting that the following is not for us, but for Jews ( I copied and pasted this from another site. It is not my own)? Christ was also a Jew, who ministered to Jews. But his words were for the world. To the world, in order to save the word.
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Post by inaweofhim on Aug 24, 2021 17:02:00 GMT -6
inaweofhim , You said, How do you explain the similarities between Matthew 24 and Paul in Thessalonians? 1. Both passages speak about Jesus coming from heaven – 1 Thess. 4:16 & Matt. 24:30. 2. Both say that there are angels present – 1 Th. 4:16, 3:13 & Matt. 24:31. 3. Both speak about a trumpet call – 1 Thess. 4:16 & Matt. 24:31. 4. Both say believers will be gathered to Jesus – 1 Thess. 4:17 & Matt. 24:31, 40-41. 5. Both mention clouds – 1 Thess. 4:17 & Matt. 24:30. 6. Both say that the time is unknown – 1 Thess. 5:1-2 & Matt. 24:36. 7. Both say that Jesus will come like a thief – 1 Thess. 5:2, 4 & Matt. 24:43. 8. Both say unbelievers will be caught unaware – 1 Thess. 5:3 & Matt. 24:37-39. 9. Both say that believers are to watch – 1 Thess. 5:6 & Matt. 24:42, 25. 10. Both warn against drunkenness – 1 Thess. 5:7 & Matt. 24:49. Also, if Matthew was written by a Jew, for Jews and not really for us, though we can learn from it. Are you suggesting that the following is not for us, but for Jews ( I copied and pasted this from another site. It is not my own)? Christ was also a Jew, who ministered to Jews. But his words were for the world. To the world, in order to save the word. Praise you brother for your tenacity and bulldog-stubbornness to the Word of God! I love that in you, venge. I cringe at words that cannot convey with our presence and faces and hearts to those receiving it, the intent of the words. I am NOT suggesting that the insert you pasted is not for Gentiles. Hopefully, I can express myself more clearly this time: I believe that Matthew wrote his book (gospel?) to convince the Jews that Jesus is in fact, their Messiah. His focus was towards the Jews, but in his gospel he clearly states facts, commands, words that Jesus spoke to the multitudes (Jew and Gentile). Matthew was focused on challenging the belief of the Jews - and I consider you of like-mindedness as Matthew! Your tenacity to challenge any statement not in line with the Word or your understanding/belief of the Word reminds me of Matthew stringently, exhaustively, by OT references proving that Jesus is the Messiah. I do not want to derail the intent of this thread. It is about Feast of Trumpets associated with Rapture Day. This is a belief that I tend towards also; but am very ecstatic to have any day be Rapture Day!! Venge, you stay you, mighty brother! We are on the same team, in the same Body, and celebrating Jesus. Maranatha! |
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TrumpetsTX
New Member
Author, 21st Century Revelation: World Wars, Iraq War & End Wars
Posts: 47
Favorite Verse: Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Post by TrumpetsTX on Aug 24, 2021 22:43:08 GMT -6
Mike: TrumpetsTX plan to be here on Sept. 9th
disciple4life: I'm not 1000% certain that it's this year. 😉
If we're still here on October 10th, it just means I wait for next year.
IMPORTANT:
SETTING A DATE FOR THE RAPTURE IS NOT THE POINT.
PRE, PARTIAL, PRE-WRATH, MID, POST RAPTURE IS NOT THE POINT.
Just get ready if Jesus Christ does come this season, this year.
The point is not to pick a date but to be ready and encourage the Church to wake up and watch because this is the season of Teshuvah (August-October) when Jesus will return. Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand (Matthew 4:17). I am only 10% certain that the Rapture occurs this year. I am 100% certain that the Rapture occurs on the new crescent moon on the Feast of Trumpets on God’s time. At Passover the Jews say, “Maybe next year in Jerusalem.” It took 1878 year for Israel to become a nation in 1948 with full independence. Then Jerusalem was reunited in 1967. Finally, faith became sight. God told the prophets to write about our time (Luke 10:23-24). We have the opportunity know the Gospel and then study prophecies and see some fulfilled. Like Enoch and Elijah, we the living inChrist are the people that go from life to eternal life without seeing death (1 Corinthians 15:21-23). It is my responsibility to watch, encourage and warn the Church of these amazing prophecies (Hebrews 10:24-25). Maybe this year in heaven? If a person predicts an early date certain for the Rapture, it discredits the person and his ministry but if the prediction is on time or late, we will be in Heaven so it will not matter. If a person predicts God could come back any day or in the next one hundred years, he ignores the signs of the times, fails as a watchman for the Church and leaves Christians asleep of the time and plan of God. If the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand (Ezekiel 33:6). Teshuvah is forty days of repentance in preparation for the Day of Atonement. In the month of Elul, the trumpet is blown every day except the last day. We are the Bereans, we are the Bible students, we are the watchers, we sound the alarm and proclaim God’s Word until He comes (1 Thessalonians 5:11). Those awake, watching and expecting our Messiah will be the first to know (Luke 2:25, 36). You, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. You are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also you do (1 Thessalonians 5:4-6, 11). Robert Cook TrumpetsTX www.21stcenturyrevelation.com
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Post by mike on Aug 25, 2021 6:50:40 GMT -6
IMPORTANT:
SETTING A DATE FOR THE RAPTURE IS NOT THE POINT.
PRE, PARTIAL, PRE-WRATH, MID, POST RAPTURE IS NOT THE POINT.
Just get ready if Jesus Christ does come this season, this year.
BINGO! He will come and on that day whether we be alive and remaining or raised to life from the grave, He will come - Hallelujah! |
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Post by mike on Aug 25, 2021 8:20:20 GMT -6
inaweofhim said: If Matthew wrote to the Jews, and his intended audience was to meant to be read mostly by Jews.... Question: How do you see the other gospels then? For example it is largely held that Mark wrote to the Romans, and Luke to the Greeks. In fact the intro to Luke in my bible says that he records more miracles (28) than the other gospels and 23 parables of which 18 appear alone in his account. Miracles were certainly a sign for people to believe in Him, and in my opinion the Jews would be all the more receptive to this if they knew the OT (Moses) and accepted it. Since the Olivet discourse is also in Luke, written to the Greeks how do you see the context there? Again this is a conversation and I'm just asking  Luke 21:5-38 Mark 13:1-37
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Post by venge on Aug 25, 2021 16:44:48 GMT -6
IMPORTANT:
SETTING A DATE FOR THE RAPTURE IS NOT THE POINT.
PRE, PARTIAL, PRE-WRATH, MID, POST RAPTURE IS NOT THE POINT.
Just get ready if Jesus Christ does come this season, this year.
BINGO! He will come and on that day whether we be alive and remaining or raised to life from the grave, He will come - Hallelujah! Mike, I’m using your quote, but it’s really for Trumpets. If he thinks the rapture is soon, when exactly did the heavens become shakeable and dissolved? |
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Post by boraddict on Aug 25, 2021 18:41:36 GMT -6
inaweofhim said: If Matthew wrote to the Jews, and his intended audience was to meant to be read mostly by Jews.... Question: How do you see the other gospels then? For example it is largely held that Mark wrote to the Romans, and Luke to the Greeks. In fact the intro to Luke in my bible says that he records more miracles (28) than the other gospels and 23 parables of which 18 appear alone in his account. Miracles were certainly a sign for people to believe in Him, and in my opinion the Jews would be all the more receptive to this if they knew the OT (Moses) and accepted it. Since the Olivet discourse is also in Luke, written to the Greeks how do you see the context there? Again this is a conversation and I'm just asking Luke 21:5-38 Mark 13:1-37 Matthew used OT evidence to convert the Jews. Mark was writing from Peter's vantage point that the gospel was for all mankind. So, the Gospel According to Mark was clearly to the Romans as you have said. Luke was writing to provide a more accurate accounting to the scientific community. Since the Greek was the bedrock of philosophical science, then it is reasonable that Luke was writing to the Greeks. John however was not seeking to convert anyone but was writing to those who were already converted. Thus, the Gospel According to John is not synoptic like the other three; no parables, no attempts at conversion. To John, the conversion of saints was not his concern but the strengthening their testimony was. He expected the believer to already know who the "Word" was as he introduced his message. Thus, John was simply stating what the saints already knew as he gave his testimony about what he saw (Rev. 1:2). My personal opinion. |
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Post by yardstick on Aug 25, 2021 18:46:45 GMT -6
inaweofhim said: If Matthew wrote to the Jews, and his intended audience was to meant to be read mostly by Jews.... Question: How do you see the other gospels then? For example it is largely held that Mark wrote to the Romans, and Luke to the Greeks. In fact the intro to Luke in my bible says that he records more miracles (28) than the other gospels and 23 parables of which 18 appear alone in his account. Miracles were certainly a sign for people to believe in Him, and in my opinion the Jews would be all the more receptive to this if they knew the OT (Moses) and accepted it. Since the Olivet discourse is also in Luke, written to the Greeks how do you see the context there? Again this is a conversation and I'm just asking Luke 21:5-38 Mark 13:1-37 , FWIW, and my two cents worth on this... why does it have to be one or the other? Why have just a primary audience only; when a secondary, tertiary and quaternary audience can also get something out of it? Shall we throw the baby out with the bathwater? Also FWIW, does not the first chapter of Matthew indicate whose audience the book is focused on? The legal bloodline of Christ, and the royal bloodline of Christ: who would be most interested in those two facts? |
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