|
Post by mike on Aug 5, 2021 10:49:37 GMT -6
The more & more I hear the things happening in the world, the more verse 25 is starting to take shape to me. Now I dont think that the 3.5 'times' are here at the moment, but everything about speaking words as an adversary of the Most High, and wearing out the saints is here. Evolution speaks against God, trans-everything speaks against God, trust science speaks against God (which they who speak these things do not apply unless it meets their benefit/narrative) - science actually confirms God, but with all lies they confound the simple who despise God...But thats another discussion Hopes to change is the LSV, hoping to change is YLT (5452 - sebar: to think, intend) - I see this as what we experience now. Hoping/intending to redefine what people are biologically, but its clear its erroneous. Hoping/intending to redefine that the heavens were created by our Creator and not aliens, or a cosmic explosion of nothing becoming everything aside from Divine intervention. I feel like we are right at the edge of this as each day it seems to get worse, which is hard to see happening but despite feeling worn down/out - I am convinced I am not completely worn out yet. I believe that is right around the corner. Anyone else feeling like this?
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Aug 5, 2021 13:15:23 GMT -6
This totally resonates with me, and also reminds me of how many brothers and sisters have been describing how they've felt lately. We are witnessing a truly colossal, and global, societal shift since March 2020 and the immense spiritual, emotional, and physical toll that has taken on the Church is immense.
Also reminds me of the logical sequence in Rev. 3:8, 9–10; 4:1-2:
|
|
|
Post by uscgvet on Aug 5, 2021 14:48:58 GMT -6
Reminds me of Isaiah 10.
Assyria is an Instrument of Judgment
Now note: you said in Daniel YLT (5452 - sebar: to think, intend)
|
|
|
Post by mike on Aug 5, 2021 16:50:12 GMT -6
uscgvet whoa! Wow! I read Isaiah a few months back but this did not jump out then it does now! Thank you brother. That is one I will be employing in my speech, texting and otherwise. I feel like we are arriving at a point where the only conversation that needs to happen is "Are you with Christ or against Him?" He is returning and we must endure each day together until He does.
|
|
|
Post by yardstick on Aug 5, 2021 19:38:15 GMT -6
The more & more I hear the things happening in the world, the more verse 25 is starting to take shape to me. Now I dont think that the 3.5 'times' are here at the moment, but everything about speaking words as an adversary of the Most High, and wearing out the saints is here. Evolution speaks against God, trans-everything speaks against God, trust science speaks against God (which they who speak these things do not apply unless it meets their benefit/narrative) - science actually confirms God, but with all lies they confound the simple who despise God...But thats another discussion Hopes to change is the LSV, hoping to change is YLT (5452 - sebar: to think, intend) - I see this as what we experience now. Hoping/intending to redefine what people are biologically, but its clear its erroneous. Hoping/intending to redefine that the heavens were created by our Creator and not aliens, or a cosmic explosion of nothing becoming everything aside from Divine intervention. I feel like we are right at the edge of this as each day it seems to get worse, which is hard to see happening but despite feeling worn down/out - I am convinced I am not completely worn out yet. I believe that is right around the corner. Anyone else feeling like this? Yes. I am expecting something to occur... Interestingly, what if the passage I have bolded referred to the first 3-1/2 years? Would that not fit the pre-wrath or mid-trib view?
|
|
|
Post by mike on Aug 6, 2021 11:58:35 GMT -6
yardstick Currently (personally) I view that there are only 3.5 years not 7 in the text. I am persuaded in this manner as the 42 months can be definitive identified when the AC sits where he ought not, stands in the temple, etc. I also am of the thought that if there is a 7 year period we wont really know we're in the first half of with certainty until the AoD occurs. Everything happening now is directly adverse to the Most High and as I note is wearing on me and many others. But yes it is possible that if that does qualify for 3.5, then it supports a later resurrection date of which I am one who currently the view of post 6th seal, perhaps later. Just my current view/understanding
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Aug 6, 2021 15:57:29 GMT -6
We should see pope Francis in the news at some point. When he stands up to speak as the lamb that is the savior (Rev. 13:11) then we are definitely in the tribulation era.
|
|
|
Post by boraddict on Aug 8, 2021 7:22:26 GMT -6
yardstick Currently (personally) I view that there are only 3.5 years not 7 in the text. I am persuaded in this manner as the 42 months can be definitive identified when the AC sits where he ought not, stands in the temple, etc. I also am of the thought that if there is a 7 year period we wont really know we're in the first half of with certainty until the AoD occurs. Everything happening now is directly adverse to the Most High and as I note is wearing on me and many others. But yes it is possible that if that does qualify for 3.5, then it supports a later resurrection date of which I am one who currently the view of post 6th seal, perhaps later. Just my current view/understanding mike, the only evidence that I recall showing a complete 7 years is Rev. 12. But in that chapter it seems that the man-child is taken and then the church is sequestered and then the war in heaven. Perhaps these events were long ago and that first 3.5 year period was in fact 2,000 years ago. Not knowing this for sure, but as dual prophecies go, the second application of that prophecy may simply go from the great sign to the second 3.5 years. Like, the first 3.5 years was 2,000 years ago and now we get the second 3.5 years at Rev. 12:14, and the verses that follow. It is a very mysterious chapter; cloak and dagger type stuff. Yes, that fits, it is a cloak and dagger chapter. 1) the great sign 2,000 years ago and in 2017 2) the Roman beast 3) the man-child taken to heaven 4) the church sequestered 5) the war that reaches over the past 2,000 years to our time 6) the church sequestered, the rapture era 7) the war against the saints continues
|
|
|
Post by uscgvet on Aug 9, 2021 14:47:41 GMT -6
yardstick Currently (personally) I view that there are only 3.5 years not 7 in the text. I am persuaded in this manner as the 42 months can be definitive identified when the AC sits where he ought not, stands in the temple, etc. I also am of the thought that if there is a 7 year period we wont really know we're in the first half of with certainty until the AoD occurs. Everything happening now is directly adverse to the Most High and as I note is wearing on me and many others. But yes it is possible that if that does qualify for 3.5, then it supports a later resurrection date of which I am one who currently the view of post 6th seal, perhaps later. Just my current view/understanding Well. We can know we are close due to the Daniel 11:20 "raiser of taxes". The "raiser of taxes" is short lived. He comes on the scene and is removed peacefully not long after taking power it seems. The next world leader described after the "raiser of taxes" in Daniel 11:22-45 is "a vile person" who takes the leadership through deception who works to create a "league", likely of 10 kingdoms or 10 horns. We know Nebuchadnezzar (the type for the anti-christ) attacked King Solomon's Temple 3 times before it was totally destroyed in 2 Chronicles 36. So we should expect 3 "Temples" to be destroyed by the representative statue of Nebuchadnezzar of Daniel 2. We know there have been 2x "raiser of taxes" events that have occurred before each of God's Temple was destroyed in the past. 1) first "raiser of taxes" followed by a Temple destruction 621 BC - 2 Kings 23:33-35 Pharaohnechoh ordered a levy and Israel taxed its citizens to cover the levy 586 BC - 2 Kings 25:8-17 Nebuchadnezzar destroys Solomon's Temple 2) second "raiser of taxes" followed by a Temple destruction 3 BC - ? - Luke 2:1-6 Caesar Augustus taxes the known world 70 AD - Titus destroys the 2nd Temple 3) third temple "raiser of taxes" 2021 AD - 2026 AD - ?- a world leader that isn't the anti-christ taxes the whole world just like Caesar Agustus and Pharaohnechoh in the past. 2033 AD - ? - Christ comes back as "a stone cut without hands" and destroys "the statue of Nebuchadnezzar" likely sitting in the 3rd Temple as God
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Aug 10, 2021 9:51:41 GMT -6
In my view, there are many reasons for a full seven years, a few of which include: 1. Noah and his family were in the Ark for seven days before the Flood (the Flood being total destruction like the end of the Trib). 2. Joseph's seven years of famine. Joseph is a type of Christ who even took a Gentile bride pre-famine. Jeremiah 30's reference to the Time of Jacob's Trouble may even be a cryptic clue, given Jacob's actual time of trouble was during the seven-year famine of Joseph's day. Jacob and his family were rescued in the midst of the famine just as Israel will be rescued in the midst of the coming Tribulation (Rev. 12:6, 14). Since Israel is fully protected for the last half of the Tribulation (the Great Tribulation) whereas the remnant of her seed are not (Rev. 12:17) how could this period of time be Jacob's trouble? "Jacob" is fully protected for 1,260 days. We see that Jacob's trouble is when the dragon is in hot pursuit pre-Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:13). 3. Jacob's seven extra years of work for Rachel. Bear in mind Jacob = Israel. He's a type. 4. Gabriel explicitly declares a future period of seven years (the 70th week; Daniel 9:27). He also explains that 3.5 years in, the AOD will occur. Jesus references Daniel's prophecy of the midpoint AOD as a future event (Mt. 24:15). Trying to reconcile Jesus' own interpretation of Daniel 9 (Mt. 24:15) with the view some propose that Daniel 9:27 is actually about Christ's death after 3.5 years of ministry, seems to be difficult. 5. The seven-year pattern shows up elsewhere in history, including: the Maccabean Revolt (167-160 BC) that even had a midpoint shadow of the AOD (164 BC); the Jewish-Roman War (66-73 AD) that also featured a midpoint shadow of the AOD (70 AD); and WWII, when counting from the invasion of Austria, was 1938-1945, featuring a *type* of the AC (Hitler) whose currency was the Mark and who literally branded people, coming against the Jews in particular. 6. The plain sense of Revelation 11 seemingly forces there to be a 3.5-year period prior to the Great Tribulation (see here). 7. The number patterns of Revelation are extremely important in my view. One of the reasons the number "7" is most prominent in Revelation is because the book is predominantly about the seven-year judgment at the end of the age. Seven lampstands, seven churches, seven stars, seven angels, seven flames, seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven bowls. God uses the number "7" to highlight the Tribulation/time of the Lamb's wrath/time of Jacob's trouble. I could be wrong, but these are a few of the reasons that persuade me.
|
|
|
Post by uscgvet on Aug 10, 2021 10:59:58 GMT -6
I find it very interesting that Jesus says in Luke 21:36 he makes note that those who watch and wait may be counted worthy to escape "all these things" (Luke 21:7-20)... which things mentioned were basically the Seals of Revelation 6. I have a hard time believing the 3rd Temple will just spawn into existence at the very exact moment the AC will sit in it and declare himself as god at the start of 3.5 years. There must be a timeframe before that time of 3.5 years to build the Temple and go through the first 5 seals. edit: Gary thanks for the link to the Pre-Trib Research Center. That'll keep me busy for a while. Quoting from the article: Nice! I love it. Perfect Logic.
|
|
rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
|
Post by rondonmonson on Aug 12, 2021 9:39:02 GMT -6
Reminds me of Isaiah 10. Assyria is an Instrument of Judgment Now note: you said in Daniel YLT (5452 - sebar: to think, intend) Well, I replied to your post late last night and I guess I forgot to hit create post.... Oh well, had the COVID about 4 weeks ago, now because I took some Antibiotics twice in the last 6 months I have C-Diff a bacteria in the stomach and intestines which take over because the good bacteria gets killed off by the Antibiotics. Say a prayer for old man. As per the Assyrian, that is spot on, if people notice the very next chapter speaks about the Wolf lying with the sheep or lamb. So, that lets us know its an end time event. Isaiah 10, the Assyrian can be placed with two more passages and that gives us the full picture of the coming Anti-Christ. He's an Assyrian by bloodline, the Assyrian Empire was Northern Iraq, Southern Turkey and parts of Syria. Keep that in mind. In Daniel chapter 8, and specifically in verse 9, we are given a simple directional box by God that shows us where this Anti-Christ (Assyrian by blood) has to be born. I can be of China descent and be an U.S. Citizen, or of Irish descent and be a U.S. Citizen by birth, and thus I can be the President of the USA, even though I am of the Chinese or Irish bloodline. Thus, likewise, even though this man has Assyrian bloodline, he has to come from one of these four kingdoms that arose from Alexander the Greats stead. Thus God giving us a FOUR WAY DIRECTIONAL BOX, and has simplified this to an extreme degree, the problem is we take the simple and make it complex. Dan. 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn(Alexander the Great) was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds (Our simple four way Directional Box) of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. The Toward the Pleasant Land tells us this means he is CONQUERING in these DIRECTIONS. Thus, this whole battle of the Greek Kingdoms in Daniel 11 has a reason for the season so to speak, there is a reason we get the rundown of all these Greek kings etc. We are led from Alexander the Great, to the Four Kingdoms that arise which give us a simple four way directional box on a map. This Little Horn/Anti-Christ will conquer TOWARDS the East and TOWARDS the South. Thus in this simple directional box, that tells us he has to come out of the Northwest corridor of this Four way box !! So, the Anti-Christ has to conquer from the Macedonian (Greece) section of this four way box. Dan. 11:40-43 tells us he conquers all of North Africa, and Israel, we know he rolls through many countries to get to Israel, so Syria, Lebanon and Jordan are conquered, the usual Mediterranean Sea nations who are a part of all the Beasts of Daniel, especially Rome who conquered every square inch of the Mediterranean Sea Coastline, unlike all the others. So, he has to be an Assyrian man via his bloodline, and he has to e born in Greek, because he comes out of one of the four kingdoms, and as Dan. 8:9 shows us, this Little Horn/Anti-Christ conquers from the Northwest portion of this four way kingdom battle. Now for the last piece of a three pronged puzzle so to speak. Daniel 7 says thus Little Horn also must arise from the Fourth Beast, out of the 10, and we know 10 is God speak for COMPLETENESS, not 10, as in the 10 commandments stands in stead of God's full law. The 10 Virgins stand for all of Christendom, the Church of Smyrna was told they would have tribulation, 10 days, but that means for the entire Church Age etc. etc. So, these 10 simply represent all of Europe who splintered apart (Iron & Clay) and thus when the UK was a part of the E.U. the 10 represented 27 nations, now that the UK has left, the E.U. only has 26 nations, but 10 still holds true. Numbers of nations change over time, Europe could be run by 1 nation in Rome, then 5 nations 200 years after it fell, then 20 nations, now 26 nations, so God simply stated 10, which means all of Europe at any given time. Dan. 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (This simply means it became DIVIDED and stayed that way for many years, but would reunite at the very end times as one again)8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. So, thus Little Horn/Anti-Christ is not only an Assyrian by bloodline (I think he is a Turk because they have a common border with Greece and thus Greeks live in Turkey and vice versa as per the pattern of Immigration), he is born in Greece, and he has to come to power in the E.U. and out of the Four Kingdoms spoken about which arose from Alexander the Great, only Greece is in the European Union, so, this man has to fit all three qualifications. He has to be Assyrian by bloodline, he has to be born in Greece, so says the simple four way directional box, and he has to arise to power out of the Fourth Beasts 10 who splintered like Iron and Clay, but who then reunite at the very end, but only after Israel is revived from he Dead Men's Bones. So, in 1948, Israel was reborn, then in the 1950s we got the Council of Rome which led the the reunification of Europe. Charlemagne couldn't do it, Napoleon tried and failed, as did Hitler, they even tried to reunite via the SEED of men (Royal Marriage) but to no avail, but when Israel was reborn, then the Fourth Beast was allowed to reunify. Then in the E.U. this man (Little Horn) arises. The Anti-Christ will be an Assyrian (Turk) born in Greece, who is thus qualified to be the E.U. President, and he will make an Agreement not only with Israel, but with all the nations (THE MANY) in the Mediterranean Sea Region. Alright, old man needs his rest, God bless.
|
|
|
Post by rt on Aug 12, 2021 19:20:21 GMT -6
In my view, there are many reasons for a full seven years, a few of which include: 1. Noah and his family were in the Ark for seven days before the Flood (the Flood being total destruction like the end of the Trib). 2. Joseph's seven years of famine. Joseph is a type of Christ who even took a Gentile bride pre-famine. Jeremiah 30's reference to the Time of Jacob's Trouble may even be a cryptic clue, given Jacob's actual time of trouble was during the seven-year famine of Joseph's day. Jacob and his family were rescued in the midst of the famine just as Israel will be rescued in the midst of the coming Tribulation (Rev. 12:6, 14). Since Israel is fully protected for the last half of the Tribulation (the Great Tribulation) whereas the remnant of her seed are not (Rev. 12:17) how could this period of time be Jacob's trouble? "Jacob" is fully protected for 1,260 days. We see that Jacob's trouble is when the dragon is in hot pursuit pre-Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:13). 3. Jacob's seven extra years of work for Rachel. Bear in mind Jacob = Israel. He's a type. 4. Gabriel explicitly declares a future period of seven years (the 70th week; Daniel 9:27). He also explains that 3.5 years in, the AOD will occur. Jesus references Daniel's prophecy of the midpoint AOD as a future event (Mt. 24:15). Trying to reconcile Jesus' own interpretation of Daniel 9 (Mt. 24:15) with the view some propose that Daniel 9:27 is actually about Christ's death after 3.5 years of ministry, seems to be difficult. 5. The seven-year pattern shows up elsewhere in history, including: the Maccabean Revolt (167-160 BC) that even had a midpoint shadow of the AOD (164 BC); the Jewish-Roman War (66-73 AD) that also featured a midpoint shadow of the AOD (70 AD); and WWII, when counting from the invasion of Austria, was 1938-1945, featuring a *type* of the AC (Hitler) whose currency was the Mark and who literally branded people, coming against the Jews in particular. 6. The plain sense of Revelation 11 seemingly forces there to be a 3.5-year period prior to the Great Tribulation (see here). 7. The number patterns of Revelation are extremely important in my view. One of the reasons the number "7" is most prominent in Revelation is because the book is predominantly about the seven-year judgment at the end of the age. Seven lampstands, seven churches, seven stars, seven angels, seven flames, seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven bowls. God uses the number "7" to highlight the Tribulation/time of the Lamb's wrath/time of Jacob's trouble. I could be wrong, but these are a few of the reasons that persuade me. Not to mention that the 70 weeks prophecy has to do with the sabbath year cycle, which is in fact 7 years
|
|
|
Post by mike on Aug 13, 2021 8:34:01 GMT -6
Hey Gary question for you on this statement: I dont quite read Gen 7 the same way. Can you clarify how you arrive at this conclusion in light of: Are we just reading this different in light of our understanding? I see that the Lord instructed Noah to get the animals on the ark with 7 days to complete the task. I read this like it took 7 days for all the animals to be placed in the ark as it would be a logistical nightmare to try to accomplish it in one day. The Lord sent the animals, but its doubtful they knew exactly where they needed to go once in the ark. However I dont see that Noah was inside with the door shut for 7 days before the flood started.
|
|
|
Post by daniel on Aug 13, 2021 9:32:02 GMT -6
Although I agree that these "sevens" have an ultimate fulfillment at the end of the age, in recent months I've been seeing an additional way to interpret durations of "7" and "40" in the Word: they each point to a full dispensation of time (however long that dispensation is). Once you use that as the lens, other details emerge about who we are in Christ. Here's a case in point:
Exodus 29:29-30 The holy garments of Aaron shall be for his sons after him; they shall be anointed in them and ordained in them. 30 The son who succeeds him as priest, who comes into the tent of meeting to minister in the Holy Place, shall wear them seven days.
Leviticus 8:33 And you shall not go outside the entrance of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the days of your ordination are completed, for it will take seven days to ordain you.
End of the age interpretation: As Jesus' Melchizedekian King-Priests, we will one day be clothed with immortality (2 Cor 5:4, 1 Cor 15:51-52, Rev 12:5), wait just outside the heavenly tabernacle for 7 days, and then enter into it (Rev 12:5, Rev 4-5) to begin our heavenly priestly service.
Dispensations interpretation: For the entire church age, when we are baptized into Christ, we put on Christ (Romans 13:14, Gal 3:27), and become His already-but-not-yet Melchizedekian King-Priests, beginning a lifetime of ordination/sanctification, just outside the heavenly tabernacle. When the church age completes, we will collectively enter into the heavenly tabernacle to begin our heavenly priestly service.
This works in other OT stories as well. E.g. Israel's 40 years in the desert before crossing the Jordan to take the promised land is a reflection of the 2000 years of the church age, prior to crossing the heaven-earth boundary to take the heavenly territory from our heavenly enemies (Eph 6:12, Rev 12:7-9).
|
|