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Post by lionofgod on Apr 4, 2021 0:44:35 GMT -6
yardstick, I was unclear of your intentions before, but I'm clearly noticing a pattern of assumptive behavior. I'm not above answering questions or a little healthy back and forth, but you seem to infer things other than stated, without bothering to ask clarification. Forcing me if I'm to respond to you, to try to either constantly re-explain so it makes better sense to you, or to try to defend a position I'm not even taking. If you decide to further this with a FEW questions at a time, I'm happy to oblige you. But a drawn out word game or argument on what I mean when I write vs. what you hear when you read, is a waste of both our time and energies. God Bless
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Post by boraddict on Apr 4, 2021 2:03:18 GMT -6
yardstick , I was unclear of your intentions before, but I'm clearly noticing a pattern of assumptive behavior. I'm not above answering questions or a little healthy back and forth, but you seem to infer things other than stated, without bothering to ask clarification. Forcing me if I'm to respond to you, to try to either constantly re-explain so it makes better sense to you, or to try to defend a position I'm not even taking. If you decide to further this with a FEW questions at a time, I'm happy to oblige you. But a drawn out word game or argument on what I mean when I write vs. what you hear when you read, is a waste of both our time and energies. God Bless lionofgod, the work of explaining our beliefs to others helps us to dial ourselves in as teachers. I remember a few years ago I would say scriptural things to people and be amazed at the general lack of understanding. It's like I am speaking English and don't they hear me? The answer came when I realized that I had to sharpen my teaching skills. Even now I have to continue improving my teaching skills. So that is what we are doing. There will be a time that we as watchers will need to help others in the salvation of their souls; and, the manner that we do that is through teaching the gospel message. And, we sharpen each other through our candid conversations. That is; Are we trying to impress anyone here? No. So what are we doing but dialing in our ability to teach effectively. At least that is in my opinion a big deal. I always try to explain some detail of doctrine that I discover and it never fails that someone is calling me to the carpet to prove my position. That is a good thing. So please do not get upset by this phenomenon that helps us sharpen our craft of teaching the gospel message. For example, this is conference week for the LDS church; that den of vipers (IMO). So my son comes to me to say that they (LDS church leaders) are speaking to world events. To which I explain that if I want to grow corn do I get advice from snakes; or do I turn to farmers. My point being that they as snakes and I said: get paid over a million dollars (just guessing but ten years ago I was told by a friend that the evidence was $700,000 for each one at the top and it must be more now) hire PR firms to help them teach their message effectively. Can you believe that? They need a PR firm and not the Holy Ghost to guide them. Like, they probably say that God instructed them to use a PR firm to teach more effectively. So it is those types that learn through their millions how to teach and we who help one another to teach. That is kind of my point on this subject. So take advantage of the schooling because it is a great classroom that is not for the rich but those seeking the Savior.
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 4, 2021 9:23:24 GMT -6
lionofgod , the work of explaining our beliefs to others helps us to dial ourselves in as teachers. I remember a few years ago I would say scriptural things to people and be amazed at the general lack of understanding. It's like I am speaking English and don't they hear me? The answer came when I realized that I had to sharpen my teaching skills. Even now I have to continue improving my teaching skills. So that is what we are doing. There will be a time that we as watchers will need to help others in the salvation of their souls; and, the manner that we do that is through teaching the gospel message. And, we sharpen each other through our candid conversations. That is; Are we trying to impress anyone here? No. So what are we doing but dialing in our ability to teach effectively. At least that is in my opinion a big deal. I always try to explain some detail of doctrine that I discover and it never fails that someone is calling me to the carpet to prove my position. That is a good thing. So please do not get upset by this phenomenon that helps us sharpen our craft of teaching the gospel message. For example, this is conference week for the LDS church; that den of vipers (IMO). So my son comes to me to say that they (LDS church leaders) are speaking to world events. To which I explain that if I want to grow corn do I get advice from snakes; or do I turn to farmers. My point being that they as snakes and I said: get paid over a million dollars (just guessing but ten years ago I was told by a friend that the evidence was $700,000 for each one at the top and it must be more now) hire PR firms to help them teach their message effectively. Can you believe that? They need a PR firm and not the Holy Ghost to guide them. Like, they probably say that God instructed them to use a PR firm to teach more effectively. So it is those types that learn through their millions how to teach and we who help one another to teach. That is kind of my point on this subject. So take advantage of the schooling because it is a great classroom that is not for the rich but those seeking the Savior. Sister, thank you for the sound advice. I believe much the same. But I was reminded recently of something, there are those that eat meat and those that drink milk. When you try to feed meat to the milk drinker, he gets sick, when you try to give milk to the meat eater, he's left hungry. At the time, I was offended by this, thinking I was obviously a meat eater. So, I've learned to be aware of the manner and type of response I get. When a fellow child of God is open to being taught and not just to teaching, I happily fellowship. However, when one is argumentative or closed minded, they cannot learn. They have decided they are right snd there is no room for examination of anything that doesn't fit into their preconceived beliefs. Time spent speaking to the deaf is better spent feeding the hungry. When someone is hungry for God, they must open themselves, to hear and see His word/message. I was once that person that was more interested in proving my idea right, than trying to listening to another tell truth. You could have been the best teacher on earth, but I wouldn't have learned. I had to get past that and on to the concept of finding the truth in each persons testimonies and opinions. I still disagree with some, but I am open to "seeing" their points. Luckily for me, the spirit has taken away my need for being right and for getting angry, so I'm no longer bother per say, just not interested in doing the long drawn out process of explaining myself to one that really isn't open to hear, but rather enjoys the friction over the peace. I'm not giving up, just the opposite. Bur I can better help and be helped by sharpening my steel against steel, not against other metals. Make sense? I do sincerely appreciate your thoughts, they are wise council. God Bless!
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 4, 2021 11:21:43 GMT -6
Ok, let me put my disclaimer up front, so as to avoid issues arising. I'm speaking of opinions and insights here, not trying to state facts or blaspheme the Lord. If your not open minded enough to have civil discussion, I won't reply.
Brothers and Sisters, Have any of you pondered the nature of God? I've been noticing a theme of sorts that is perplexing a bit to me. Speaking Old Testament here. In re-reading a lot of the Old testament, I noticed that there are several times that the Lord says he has set his mind to destroying man, his creation. In each event, someone righteous in his eyes, convinces Him not to, for one reason or another. so, I guess i'm wondering if God is capable of breaking a promise. He has not, but it seems to indicate in places that man has been able anger Him so, that he actually had decided to do so. Obviously He did not, so it is more or less moot. But it begs the question of "is it possible?"
As a secondary note, how cool was it that the ancients had the opportunity to actually talk/argue/praise God, face to face! Up to Moses, He still actually appeared to men! I cannot imagine questioning God. Or trying to talk Him out of doing anything He's chosen to do. Not to mention Him allowing you to have your way. That's just awesome.
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 4, 2021 14:06:11 GMT -6
One more interesting bible oddity. I have been doing a genealogy of all the people and tribes from Adam down. I didn't realize that on both sides of Adam's tree thru Cain and Seth, there is a period of identical names in both trees. Cains lineage has an Enoch, who begets a Mathusala who begets Lamech. Seth's tree also has a Enoch (who was translated), who begets Mathusala, who begets Lamech. It's almost as if Adam had god/evil sons, and their offsprings were in kind. Like the two are opposite sides of the "Adam" coin.
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Post by Gary on Apr 6, 2021 9:11:38 GMT -6
The truth of the law definitely still stands (we uphold that - Rom. 3:31), but we are no longer under it. And that *is* in Scripture. Hopefully we are all in agreement there. There was a time before the Mosaic law and there will be a time after it. It was given for a purpose (Rom. 5:20). Jesus didn't say the law would never pass away, He said it wouldn't pass away until all is accomplished with it (Mt. 5:18; Heb. 8:13). www.unsealed.org/2019/01/the-law.html
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Post by boraddict on Apr 6, 2021 11:04:26 GMT -6
lionofgod, said: "...there are those that eat meat and those that drink milk." I had to laugh because Isaiah 28 referrers to the drunkards of Ephraim. The point of the chapter is that priests and prophets are drunk on their power. Secondly, that the people need to break away and wean themselves from feeding upon their (the priests and prophets) elementary teachings; the milk. Third, whomever can break away from the elementary teachings are in a new place to be taught by the Lord, (to eat the meat). I love that chapter; however, the people here at Unsealed are far beyond drinking the milk and they do "eat the meat." If you want to see a doctrine where the people drink the milk then look at the LDS. For example, if I was to say the things that I say here at Unsealed on an LDS platform then I would be black listed to the extreme. In fact, I have been kicked off two of their sites. The first was on the LDS/Denver Snuffer site wherein I told them that Snuffer was their new prophet; a point at which they denied. So then I said Snuffer had made some mistakes in his work and I was kicked off the site. The mistakes were so obvious, to me, because I use logic and reason to identify mistakes. Snuffer's mistake pertained to an 1845ish text that spoke to plural marriage (as I recall) and I simply provided an accurate analysis to the references that he made pertaining to that text. Of course they did not think my analysis was so accurate and they banished me from their site. That is so funny. The second LDS site that I was banished from was because I spoke to the point of Joseph Smith's youth wherein he eloped with his wife. They were both about 18 (I am guessing) and they ran off together. Oh, yes, on the site they were saying something like how Smith was inspired and so forth. I can not remember the context of the exchange. But when I pointed out that Smith had taken the young wife and the old man Hale (going off memory) was enraged, they did not like that information and banned me from the site. That is so funny. However, I like Smith, but I do not like the dog that followed him: Young. Like Smith it is proven had one wife, and Young it is proven had 37 wives. I realize that many say that Smith had many wives, however my contention is that that doctrine is what got him killed. His two close advisors (Hyrum Smith and Sidney Rigdon) did not have but one wife each and they were working to shut down plural marriage that had taken over the church like a fire storm. Then both Joseph and Hyrum were murdered in Liberty MO and another brother killed a few months later. Rigdon was forced out and went with a group back east and some went south to Texas. So the LDS church after Smith was different than the LDS church before Smith and it has changed many times to accommodate new climates. I suppose this same phenomenon exists in all churches to some degree and that is a good reason to be free from church doctrines. Like why would any church want to restrict the free analysis and interpretation of the Book of Revelation that seems to exist in the Jehovah's Witness. Oh, I forgot to mention that the LDS avoid the BofR like a plague. Now that makes me laugh.
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 6, 2021 12:34:51 GMT -6
The truth of the law definitely still stands (we uphold that - Rom. 3:31), but we are no longer under it. And that *is* in Scripture. Hopefully we are all in agreement there. There was a time before the Mosaic law and there will be a time after it. It was given for a purpose (Rom. 5:20). Jesus didn't say the law would never pass away, He said it wouldn't pass away until all is accomplished with it (Mt. 5:18; Heb. 8:13). www.unsealed.org/2019/01/the-law.htmlBrother, I do agree with what your saying, I'm just beginning to see the entire "Law" in a much different way is all, not necessarily opposed to literal, but more complete. I'm finding that one problem that I personally encounter regularly now, is that "knowing" the truth and explaining it are very different. The Spirit is constantly evolving my truth, not changing it, as my original precepts/beliefs are unchanged, but I am able to "see" so much more to them. It's like I saw from a personal perspective before, but now I see from a more "overhead/overall/6,000ft." perspective, which alters my personal one but by enriching and fulfilling it rather than replacing it. I see the "Law" that way now too. I'm starting a study on it, when I get it fleshed a bit i'll put the "idea" up for all to review/comment on. Anyway, crazy as it may seem at times, I'm not in direct disagreement with a lot of people here, I just "observe/learn" the truth from an alternate vantage point, as well as my own. In an effort to explain this to where it makes more sense, i'm often thought to oppose a viewpoint, where as I don't oppose the point, rather see it a different way. But I have faith that when it is meant to be understood better, he will give me a better vocabulary, or better wording, that I'm able to articulate the truth that is revealed me in a manner that is more coherent to a larger audience, if that is his will.
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Post by Gary on Apr 6, 2021 12:57:12 GMT -6
Good thoughts and well said. Reminds me, too, that each in the Body has a unique perspective. It's as if we each view Christ, but from a different angle. But in the end we all see the same Gospel of salvation. I don't know who said it (maybe someone on the forum), but it seems as if each member of the Body reflects some unique aspect of Jesus' divine nature. We are the living stones and collectively the body.
Anyway, I always reinforce grace as the starting point that sets our faith apart from every other one out there (including Judaism and legalistic Christianity). If someone hasn't yet accepted Christ's law-keeping and righteousness as their own, then they haven't yet achieved righteousness, because He alone is righteous. If they want to uphold the law in its fullness then they can't neglect the numerous places it is given as an all or nothing proposition. The law was never given as something that could be kept partially (even 99%). It was all or nothing. Going back to the Torah: it was delivered as something that if kept would result in incomprehensible blessing, but if broken at all—even once—would result in incalculable curse. Legalism and the rejection of the imputation of righteousness from another simply denies this and ends up downplaying the holiness and perfectness of the law.
But the law continues to serve a grand purpose: first, showing what the standard we failed to achieve was, so that we would recognize our need for the Savior, and also serving as a shadow of the better things to come. It all centers on Christ.
Blessings.
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 6, 2021 13:18:39 GMT -6
lionofgod , said: "...there are those that eat meat and those that drink milk." I had to laugh because Isaiah 28 referrers to the drunkards of Ephraim. The point of the chapter is that priests and prophets are drunk on their power. Secondly, that the people need to break away and wean themselves from feeding upon their (the priests and prophets) elementary teachings; the milk. Third, whomever can break away from the elementary teachings are in a new place to be taught by the Lord, (to eat the meat). I'm glad you sited that scripture, as I couldn't recall where the verse was off hand, I know when I was told the parable, it was biblical, as I recalled a vague remembrance of it. But Mt memory is oft shorter than my experiences are. i'm noting it to go back and do further study after the ones I'm already into. LOLI love that chapter; however, the people here at Unsealed are far beyond drinking the milk and they do "eat the meat." If you want to see a doctrine where the people drink the milk then look at the LDS. For example, if I was to say the things that I say here at Unsealed on an LDS platform then I would be black listed to the extreme. In fact, I have been kicked off two of their sites. The first was on the LDS/Denver Snuffer site wherein I told them that Snuffer was their new prophet; a point at which they denied. So then I said Snuffer had made some mistakes in his work and I was kicked off the site. The mistakes were so obvious, to me, because I use logic and reason to identify mistakes. Snuffer's mistake pertained to an 1845ish text that spoke to plural marriage (as I recall) and I simply provided an accurate analysis to the references that he made pertaining to that text. Of course they did not think my analysis was so accurate and they banished me from their site. That is so funny. That's an awesome testimony sister! I have experienced the same from different "sects" of Christianity. I was bothered at the first, then realized the blessings God had given me, as he did you. For the bible tells us that any whom are persecuted in his name, to them is the kingdom of heaven. (I think I got that correct, the sentiment is I'm sure) Now, I don't "like" people to argue or fight or demean me, but I am secured in the knowledge that my Truth is His Truth, which he "shows" or "tells" me each day, confirming my faith in Him and His Word. As to the members here, I'm not assuming who here eats of the meat and whom does not. Experience and common sense tells me that with hundreds of members, if we all ate of the meat, than there would be none to benefit from the sharing. God's Word is a Living thing, as is the diet we eat of it. If we allow ourselves to be complacent in an area, the meat spoils, and eventually will rot. So we are encouraged to "hunt" for more meat continually to sustain us. Many eat of the meat and have become filled, and in enjoying it, sup on the same meat another day. Such is how habits are formed, which are difficult to break. Some eat small portions of the meat, but are accustomed to drinking milk and this fulfills them. Those tend to sup as their hunger dictates. There are also those that have eaten of the meat without first getting the sustenance needed from milk, those reach high, but fall fast. There are also Lions among us, that are carnivorous, they will voraciously devour the meat, as much as they can hold, then digest it, before returning to feast again. We probably have all here. But only the lion knows he's a lion lest he roar and scare away the lambs. In God's garden, there is a place for both Lion and Lamb, often they are one and the same. It'd the mystery of God, could I explain it, I'd be with him rather than here with all of you. Since it is His will I'm here, to honor Him, I follow where He leads and though I'm not always wise enough yet to see the inevitable conjunction of all the truth He reveals, he generously connects dots for me when it is needed for my growth. The second LDS site that I was banished from was because I spoke to the point of Joseph Smith's youth wherein he eloped with his wife. They were both about 18 (I am guessing) and they ran off together. Oh, yes, on the site they were saying something like how Smith was inspired and so forth. I can not remember the context of the exchange. But when I pointed out that Smith had taken the young wife and the old man Hale (going off memory) was enraged, they did not like that information and banned me from the site. That is so funny. However, I like Smith, but I do not like the dog that followed him: Young. Like Smith it is proven had one wife, and Young it is proven had 37 wives. I realize that many say that Smith had many wives, however my contention is that that doctrine is what got him killed. His two close advisors (Hyrum Smith and Sidney Rigdon) did not have but one wife each and they were working to shut down plural marriage that had taken over the church like a fire storm. Then both Joseph and Hyrum were murdered in Liberty MO and another brother killed a few months later. Rigdon was forced out and went with a group back east and some went south to Texas. So the LDS church after Smith was different than the LDS church before Smith and it has changed many times to accommodate new climates. I suppose this same phenomenon exists in all churches to some degree and that is a good reason to be free from church doctrines. Like why would any church want to restrict the free analysis and interpretation of the Book of Revelation that seems to exist in the Jehovah's Witness. Oh, I forgot to mention that the LDS avoid the BofR like a plague. Now that makes me laugh. I too learned the value of "taking" truth from different churches. It's my supposition, that "THE" church, has all God's truth within, but I see it all in none of the individuals, all have some truth, some more than others, but each has sticking points they use to put them apart from the rest, which is among each of their shortcomings. I see the truth as being so separated amongst the "Christians" now, that it is difficult for one to assemble all truth together. Those that try become pariah to those they would be brothers with. But God tells us that if you truly seek him and walk with him, you will be persecuted. But that this same persecution is your "savings account" in heaven. That working to build riches there will be fulfilling, where as riches here will wither and die with your flesh. For instance, the biggest consternation to the modern churches is the faith/works argument. when it should unite, as one and the other are tied like strands in a rope, you separate them and the rope loses it's strength, You take them together and you harness it's full power. A "church" divided cannot stand. Christ was a uniter not a divider. But that gift of free will must always be accounted for. We must each choose each day, in each way, to seek Him in ALL things, not just here. Your council in this is a wise one and that is a hard lesson, one only needs learn only once.
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 7, 2021 14:21:05 GMT -6
oops
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 7, 2021 17:56:46 GMT -6
God Bless!
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Post by lionofgod on Apr 7, 2021 19:56:22 GMT -6
Ok, a quick note, as I just realized the perfect short analogy of my way of looking at God's Word.
We all know movies and TV, it's what we all grew up watching. I view God's word like a "movie"; one that the writers/authors, producers and directors, are also the Stars/Hero's of the movie, The Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit. With the Father getting top billing as it Should be. The co-stars are the Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Israel etc., Apostles, then Satan is the villain with his cohorts, which leaves the remainder of the characters named within as cast members of varying degree. So, the Only one that knows ALL about the movie is the Father, with Jesus and the Spirit being fractionally below. The writers/authors also being stars, they have the most knowledge about the movie as well as being the focal point.- They are to be listened to if you want to understand anything about the movies point/plot, as the ultimate authority on the matter. Aside from them you also listen to the co-stars. (listed above) as they play a considerable role in the movies messaging. And they have first hand knowledge of the other characters and the set. This is as much movie as most watch. You can definitely understand the movies message/plot with this much. But lest we forget, the cast of characters were also there. and while they may not be needed to express the plot/message of the movie, they certainly do fill in the overall picture/experience for us. So, while they may not be integral to the movie, they are good for additional insight into the set, the cast and the mentality and things that occurred during the making of the movie.
I enjoy the full movie experience, so I listen to all the members of the cast, so long as they don't differ with the writer/author.
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