Bible & Truth

Brother - What do you mean by what I highlight in red above? Could you clarify that further? EDIT - Added some verses for your review...I ask as many people believe they have received truth from the spirit but they are in error, Joseph Smith is an example, among far too many others. And further to that there are those who say they get their truth from the spirit, confirmed in scripture, but are in error. I am NOT saying you are in error, I am attempting to discern.

For example progressive christians think they are led by the spirit in the word, but are in grievous error. If you have a moment I post an example of an extreme error, however there are more subtle ones as well. Check out the first 5-10 minutes to get the flavor of what I mean. 

Mike Winger is very sound in his apologetics, the youth in this video along with his teacher are in gross error, reaching itching ears of our day(2Tim 4:3, Jude 1:4,8,16,18-19 <okay all of Jude  )

Thank you brother for not making assumptions. When I say I accept truth only granted by the spirit, I am saying specifically that the Holy Spirit has granted me sight. I'm fortunate, I am unable to work, so I am able to devote my entire day and night to God, with little to no distraction. In doing so, I have come to recognize truth which is revealed to me every day. Often it is just "practical truths", such as the other day I was made to realize that God needs to be more present in my daily representation. I had a sudden realization that almost all things in this world now have a "LOGO", Which is a representation of that company or individual. Upon looking through my closet and things, I noticed that of the hundreds of logos I wear, (thereby supporting said company), the only logo I have that is representative of the lord is the things I have made myself. So I'm now making a point to consider God in even the smallest decisions. That is not in the bible, but remembering Him in all we do is an established doctrine nobody discounts. Often times i'm shown "Larger" truths as well, some I share, most I do not. Since like it or not, we are not all in the same spiritual commune with the Lord, our understanding and insight into his word will be different for all. Giving a suckling meat it cannot digest is not helping the suckling, just as giving milk to the eater of meat will not satisfy. Without having to even look in the Bible, there are basic principles/laws if you will, that I adhere to in these things. Is the message beneficial to my salvation? Does it glorify God, or me. Is the message rooted in self or Love. Things like that. If you speak out of Love of God, and it is unselfish and helpful to another's growth or well being, I share. Often doing so puts me in many crosshairs, but such is the choice I made when I chose God over man. I have no direct recollection of ant nautical or topographical parables in the bible, such as I wrote, so I'm not sure I can give you "literal" scripture reference, but without even looking, I can assure you the "message" in those words IS biblical. I'll have a quick look through and post some relevant scriptures for those that are dubious of my intent. Thank you again for your clarification request. God Bless,  ........scripture to follow. 

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

I have made no additions or subtractions from John's prophecy, in fact what I wrote would actually confirm God's word, not take away or add.

Brother, since I understand your intentions in the questioning, I will just site some scriptures and allow you to decide for yourself. However my point was that the bible can have many applications of scripture, not just one. Though I do believe that all we need to obey God, is held in the scriptures, I don't believe even the bible makes claim of Capturing ALL God's truth. If it were just that, then what further wisdom could the Holy spirit provide that was not already written?

Exodus 15:13 -Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
Psalms 25:9 -The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
Psalms 31:3 -For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.
Psalms 48:14 -For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.
Psalms 73:24 -Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Isaiah 58:11 -And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Romans 2:11-13-For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.)
1 Kings 4:29- And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore.
Deuteronomy 14:4-He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1 Samuel 12:24-Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you.
Psalm 25:10 - All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

No disagreement there
I am persuaded that the bible does make this claim contains all of Gods truth. It is our limitation as humans and individually due to culture & background, teaching and other factors that causes us to miss these truths. It is the Holy Spirit who leads us in all truth.

The wisdom the Holy Spirit teaches us will align with His word, always. I would (rhetorically) ask what have you learned that if diligently searched, could not be found in the scriptures.

If the Lord revealed something to you and only you would that be considered as a respecter of persons? Please dont confuse something you understand from the Word that while others may not understand it at the moment does not preclude that there are others that have understood this or do. Just that you arent aware of those people whether past or present.

Also we're just having a side conversation in this thread (sorry BORA). Ive just met you, what two weeks ago? It takes a little time to get to know one another. Plus we are absent non-verbal queues so it makes it all the more difficult for those who dont pen novels, op eds and things like that

lionofgod - I moved the discussion to its own thread as I felt we were intruding on "Revelation from Trump perspective" - I hope you dont mind
God is so good! Amazing what happens when the blindness of eyes and hardness of heart is removed and we see His truth. Very happy for you brother

So just please remember we're just having a discussion here and I'm not saying this is wrong and this is right. I have thought of things like this before and had to come to an understanding of things to arrive at the point where I am now. As you said earlier (Im going on a poor memory here) "Babies dont eat meat", so I do realize there are things I will be shown later that I am not understanding now. When I asked the Lord about this I got my answer(s) over time, not over night.

Something that He showed me was that He taught Adam directly. Adam had first hand knowledge of the ways of God

I mean look at this...maybe you see what I see or not. God commanded Adam - directly. God brought the animals to Adam for him to name them! Imagine that! AND He walked and talked to them in the Garden. I dont think it stopped here. Can I completely prove it from the verses? Probably not but there is much reason to believe in the possibility. For example after they sinned, where did God get the animal skins? 21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. Some including myself think God killed the animals Himself, shedding the innocent blood as payment for sin. Did God teach them this to continue to do?

Well I think its certainly possible if not probable:
How did they know they had to offer sacrifice? Moreover the proper way to do it, because Cain did it all wrong. - Point being here brother is I do agree with you that all things may not be as obvious as to say "Its written right here", but in many cases the Lord will show us things over time, well at least for me

I also do believe that before the law was actually written by Moses, the 'law' did exist just not in codified form. We see Noah build an alter and sacrifice after the flood. In fact in Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens - how did Noah knw what was clean before the law!?! My thoughts on that are that Adam wrote down many things and passed them along to his children and their children. I believe Moses compiled them and perhaps God provided clarity but there was text in place before hand passed from one to the next Gen 5:1 This [is] an account of the births of Adam - I dont debate this with others as it is non essential, but to your question, this is a possible answer. I also see that the Lord continually says throughout scripture to teach these things to your children and their children. Gen 18:19, Deut 4:9, Deut 6:7, Deut 11:19

So yes there were righteous men, who had been given the benefit of things we do not have today but I do believe that we cannot look back in time and make an assumption that all things were the same as they are today. Thanks for listening and conversing!

mike, Well done brother! You have an open heart and mind, I'm sure the Spirit will reveal to you in time all you need. But I also believe we are to seek it out, not sit and wait for delivery. Steel sharpens steel, thats why I am here. I was led to this site and found the fig tree video, and I instantly saw the truth in it. I had not at that time had any chiastic experience, but had already noticed the repeating patterns with help of the spirit. That tool helped. People get hung up on the infallibility of the scriptures. But we also need to remember, they were written by men, not God. Then they were copied and then translated many ties. Ever played the "phone" game? Imagine that game with a book of writings in several languages! Nearly all scholars actually agree on one thing. There is about one page, to one and a half pages of total text in the different bibles that is incorrectly translated. There is understandable reason for some, and there are even some scripture that "appears" in bibles and was not in the previous editions. So the simple fact is that though the scriptures may have been perfect at their origins, they are not ALL God's message. In fact, there are whole books and accompanying texts that were in the bibles for hundreds of years, then were decided to be not canonical. The KJV had the apocrypha in it till the Catholic Church decided it was not to be included in the later revisions. Then there is the basic decision of which text is the correct one to begin with. Most modern bibles are from the KJV or the Vulgate (which also had the apocrypha included). But those are translations of the Masoretic text. The Masoretic text was not even kept written, it was passed down orally. (remember the phone game?) Do we really believe that any person could pass down stories for hundreds of years and then have them be word for word? The jews didn't even want to do that! They were of the mind that writing it down would cause it to lose it's flexibility. Which to me sounds an awful lot like "It applies how we apply it". But thats another convo. The other text, predates the Masoretic by a considerable amount. It is the greek text, and it is well known to be the text Paul and several other apostles used. Since they wouldn't use anything that didn't get Jesus stamp of approval, I go with that one. The overarching reason not to is only that it is written in Greek, not Hebrew. Ironically, at that time very few jews spoke good Hebrew, they had certain people that would read the scriptures because few still knew the language. Add to that that Jesus was there to predominately teach the gospels to the Greeks/Gentiles and not the Jews, as well as the fact that at his time, Greek was the common tongue. So, we can see that relying upon scripture depends on which bible, which version, which translator and which denomination you follow, since they are not all the same. I don't knock any of them in general, as the "message" of Jesus is contained in all that I have read, which is not all bibles, but I have a copy of the KJV, NKJV, Living, NSV, Torah, Septuagint w/apocrypha, ESV, NAS,Interlinear and a few less well known. There is even differences in the different versions of the same bible, and a separate Catholic bible as well. So, you kinda have to do alot of reading to determine what bible you choose to believe in. Then if you want to get a better feel for what and how people lived and spoke, to get insight into the way people spoke and thought, as well as additional history that the bible doesn't cover, you have to read ancient writing of that time. Tertulian is a good one and there are many others. They don't all agree, but you get a better idea of what the issues and beliefs were of Jesus time. There are also books that simply have been lost to time, or have been copied so much that the story may be true, but you have to be discerning as to the wording. Place to much emphasis on the literal words and you lose the message within. Different gospels teach different parts with more vigor than others, thats because each church had unique issues, so the word was tailored to that church, where the same sermon may put emphasis on a different aspect at another church. Both are true, just worded differently to reach different audiences. Wow, that was a book. LOL Sorry brother, I get carried away talking God, good habit though.

As far as the Adam questions, I agree, most people overlook obvious things like this, but it is important to realize that Adam and Eve had a personal one on one with God daily! Face to face! He even allows Adam to be the one to name the animals he created, as you point out. How cool is that! In fact, Moses was the last man to "see" God, after the covenant with Moses, you have prophets till Jesus comes. Only the Levites in the temple were allowed to be in presence of divinity after Moses. What blows my mind at times, is that God appears in some form to the people in Moses day, and yet they still didn't have faith! You gotta really have some gall to openly question the God that has just delivered you from death umpteen times! If you follow the progression of all the descendants of Adam as you go, you'll see that in each generation, God chose one to make his covenant with. In that vein, I have no doubt that whether it is in the bible or not, there was instructions and a covenant made with Adam as well, which explains your query about the sacrifices. Blood is Life, that is all through the bible, God even said he could "hear" Abels blood calling out to him from the earth. And as you pointed out, they were given "skins" to wear. And God has always asked for an atonement for sin, why not for the first sin? Whether he did it or had an angel do it, someone did. Being the first man, he was in a unique position that man has never been in since, so it isn't a surprise to me that his original laws were not included, they would only apply to what Adam could do. There was no others to have need of a written law, yet. There's also a curious omission in the "accepted" bibles as to what happened from Adam to Moses. Angels, Demons and Giants are all in the mix, but barely even touched on. Then theres the books of Enoch, Moses and Methusala, which didn't make the cut, but were considered important enough to keep for study? Enoch is one of only 2 people in the history of the world to not see death, but his book doesn't get in? Seems the reasoning was because it was so old, that there could be no "verification" of the original author. Funny that handed down "stories" were considered books of the canon for the Masoretic text, but not here. Anyway, point being we are talking about covering at minimal, depending on what bible you use to calculate, but several thousands of years of history and God's wisdom. But it all fits into less than 2000 pages? Like anything else, there is information out there, just a mike,lot is slanted to one way or other, you just have to be able to get the truth out of it and leave the rest. If you have any interest in any ancient writings, I'll email pdf's or try to give links, but there is a lot out there and some is very helpful in filling in holes. I'm studying the times of the Watchers and the giants now. Quite interesting, I see alot of paralleles with things we already believe but don't associate yet.

lionofgod so true! Back in the 1800s (IIRC) they found many a grave of giants in the US, but the Smithsonian has them all in storage now. Keeping people ignorant of the past and continued pounding of millions of years, evolution, aliens and the like keep people believing lies and not digging for truth.

Prov 19:8 He that getteth wisdom loveth his own soul: he that keepeth understanding shall find good.