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Post by lionofgod on Mar 19, 2021 22:05:03 GMT -6
I'm at a loss, I suppose I will leave all to their own beliefs. But I will say that You don't need any scriptural knowledge to be a good and thorough researcher. That being said, since it seems there is a pro government stance in general, none here have done much research into your own government. Our (USA) government has been manipulating, experimenting on and flat out killing it's people since before I was born. The "almighty Trump" even had a host of material unclassified. As I've said, satan's need to brag and preen is his achilles heel. Had you actually read the FBI, NSA, and other files and programs released, you'd be screaming bloody murder.Since you even bother to debate this, I'll leave you to your devices, I need to bible study anyway. Once you've seen the sky is blue, there is no debating it's color. Trumps sheer brilliance in evident in this very forum, though you cannot see it. You see one side of the coin as you imagine you see both. I am happy to allow all to believe as they wish, not here to convert to "my" way. But truth is truth, even if you can't see where to put it. God Bless
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Post by mike on Mar 20, 2021 6:59:29 GMT -6
Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; 2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
150 years before the king was born
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benel
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Post by benel on Mar 20, 2021 7:51:45 GMT -6
I'm at a loss, I suppose I will leave all to their own beliefs. But I will say that You don't need any scriptural knowledge to be a good and thorough researcher. That being said, since it seems there is a pro government stance in general, none here have done much research into your own government. Our (USA) government has been manipulating, experimenting on and flat out killing it's people since before I was born. The "almighty Trump" even had a host of material unclassified. As I've said, satan's need to brag and preen is his achilles heel. Had you actually read the FBI, NSA, and other files and programs released, you'd be screaming bloody murder.Since you even bother to debate this, I'll leave you to your devices, I need to bible study anyway. Once you've seen the sky is blue, there is no debating it's color. Trumps sheer brilliance in evident in this very forum, though you cannot see it. You see one side of the coin as you imagine you see both. I am happy to allow all to believe as they wish, not here to convert to "my" way. But truth is truth, even if you can't see where to put it. God Bless lionofgod - I suggest that you don't use too broad a brush while painting the people of this site. This is my third post on this site and many others have come and gone over the years. I for one do not reject some of what you are saying about Trump. I would also agree that, should Trump rise again, he very well might be part of the Anti-Christ system. But, I also believe that this is not something that will catch God by surprise. I do not believe that God is wringing His hands saying, "Oh no! What shall I do?" No, the beast system of the AntiChrist and the associated 10 kings are in power and authority because that is exactly what God's plan calls for. They will come to power and take down Mystery Babylon - According to the Will of God. We see evidence of this here: Rev 17:16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.As Christians, we sometimes loose track of just how powerful our God is. He operates by a system of authority. He gives authority to Satan, who in turn shares it with the beast of the sea, who then fulfills God's will with the assistance of the 10 kings. Everyone is acting within the limits of Authority that was given to them by The One who holds all authority: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power[authority] is given unto me in heaven and in earth (Mat 28:18) This does not mean that the rising beast will not commit evil. But just because a leader or system commit evil does not remove the fact that they were given their authority by God. |
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Post by mike on Mar 20, 2021 8:31:14 GMT -6
Nicely put benel
Also to consider lionofgod is
Job 1:6-12 & Job 2:1-6
Satan does not operate without Gods 'approval'
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 20, 2021 22:04:05 GMT -6
Nicely put benel Also to consider lionofgod is Job 1:6-12 & Job 2:1-6 Satan does not operate without Gods 'approval' Job 2:6 cover’s it very well brother, but not as you seem to infer. LOL It quite clearly states that first God was boasting on Job, for being a righteous man. Satan after not being able to tempt Job, mad one final plea, and God allowed it, so that Job and God could both be found vindicated! Which both were, figure that. Satan lost Job won, God won! What god NEVER does is condone, encourage, create or inspire evil on any basis! EVER! If you believe otherwise, you Are not reading your bible at all. I find it funny that people always use this to point out the obvious flaw in their own thinking. But cannot see it for pointing out the others spec in the eye. Every other place in the Bible is crystal clear, so we have to always go to the one that people use to invalidate God’s perfection and Love. Shame on them. Or you if you play this game too. |
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Post by disciple4life on Mar 21, 2021 7:59:18 GMT -6
lionofgod, Hello brother, Job 2:6 ESV And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life." 1 chronicles 29:12 also makes it clear that all power and authority is granted by God. Sometimes he appoints wicked rulers to judge his people or get their attention. 1 Chronicles 29:12 ESV "Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all." Nowhere does mike even suggest or hint that God creates or designs evil. I can't even see how you could get that. It's not from the verse and not from any post I saw. There are plenty of opinions and lots of room to disagree and discuss, but I don't know a single member on this forum who believes that. Also, if you think someone is saying something that is unclear or doesn't make sense- just ask them to clarify, rather than assuming and implying they don't read the Bible. 😉 Blessings Disciple4life
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benel
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Post by benel on Mar 21, 2021 8:56:08 GMT -6
Nicely put benel Also to consider lionofgod is Job 1:6-12 & Job 2:1-6 Satan does not operate without Gods 'approval' Job 2:6 cover’s it very well brother, but not as you seem to infer. LOL It quite clearly states that first God was boasting on Job, for being a righteous man. Satan after not being able to tempt Job, mad one final plea, and God allowed it, so that Job and God could both be found vindicated! Which both were, figure that. Satan lost Job won, God won! What god NEVER does is condone, encourage, create or inspire evil on any basis! EVER! If you believe otherwise, you Are not reading your bible at all. I find it funny that people always use this to point out the obvious flaw in their own thinking. But cannot see it for pointing out the others spec in the eye. Every other place in the Bible is crystal clear, so we have to always go to the one that people use to invalidate God’s perfection and Love. Shame on them. Or you if you play this game too. We each develop our own perspective of God. Often this perspective is skewed by what we are taught. The question is, can we learn and grow when presented with evidence? The statement that God never creates evil is not consistent with this verse: Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things The Satan is a created being - created by God, the King of the Universe. The Satan can do nothing without the consent of God. |
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Post by yardstick on Mar 21, 2021 12:34:25 GMT -6
Job 2:6 cover’s it very well brother, but not as you seem to infer. LOL It quite clearly states that first God was boasting on Job, for being a righteous man. Satan after not being able to tempt Job, mad one final plea, and God allowed it, so that Job and God could both be found vindicated! Which both were, figure that. Satan lost Job won, God won! What god NEVER does is condone, encourage, create or inspire evil on any basis! EVER! If you believe otherwise, you Are not reading your bible at all. I find it funny that people always use this to point out the obvious flaw in their own thinking. But cannot see it for pointing out the others spec in the eye. Every other place in the Bible is crystal clear, so we have to always go to the one that people use to invalidate God’s perfection and Love. Shame on them. Or you if you play this game too. We each develop our own perspective of God. Often this perspective is skewed by what we are taught. The question is, can we learn and grow when presented with evidence? The statement that God never creates evil is not consistent with this verse: Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things The Satan is a created being - created by God, the King of the Universe. The Satan can do nothing without the consent of God. The creation of evil and the exercise of it are two different things. Paul even points this out obliquely: without the Law there would be no sin. Without evil, how can one evaluate good as good? Nevertheless, just because it is created, does not mean that it is exercised by its creator. Therefore, do not conflate the creation of evil with its use. God is perfect and holy and righteous. In all his being and actions. It is impossible for him to perform an evil action. I would further point out that Satan was created 'good', so was humanity. But without the freewill to choose whether or not to do evil, any angel or human would be a mindless slave. Where is the glory in that? Does not a perfect and Holy and righteous omnipotent being deserve glory? Is it not more glorifying to demonstrate that when given the option to do good or evil, your creation(s) can choose to do good? Which demonstrates more love for your creator (who wants you to perform good acts), choosing to perform a good act, or an evil one? |
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Post by yardstick on Mar 21, 2021 12:52:11 GMT -6
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Post by yardstick on Mar 21, 2021 13:01:50 GMT -6
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benel
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Post by benel on Mar 21, 2021 20:34:21 GMT -6
Thanks yardstick, To be honest, totally not wanting this to sound rude, but I am not really interested in continuing a debate on this topic. The original topic was about whether or not God placed bad kings into power. It was that issue to which I was responding. The responder than took an extremely condescending tone toward that idea and used the following line: lionofgod: "What god NEVER does is condone, encourage, create or inspire evil on any basis! EVER! If you believe otherwise, you Are not reading your bible at all."This was then followed by a statement from another member: disciple4life: "Nowhere does mike even suggest or hint that God creates or designs evil. I can't even see how you could get that. It's not from the verse and not from any post I saw. There are plenty of opinions and lots of room to disagree and discuss, but I don't know a single member on this forum who believes that." The bolding was mine. The rest was original. Because on these two comments, which were already departing from the idea that God sets up and tears down kings, I felt obligated to show that scripture does indeed show that God creates evil. This was the argument I made and it was directly from scripture. I did not make the other arguments that you, yardstick, began to argue against. So your arguments are statements against an idea, but not an idea that I raised or defended. Having said that - Evil and Sin are not even the same thing, yet we often tend to conflate the two. God cannot sin. God created evil. Many Christians have trouble expanding their view of God to be able to hold both of these truths at the same time. Yet they are are both true. He also places a lying tongue in the mouth of prophets at times. Now, I only raise these points because of the intolerant way that lionofgod responded to mike and me. And because of the mis-statement by disciple4life (though done in kindness). I really don't want to have a debate about the nature of God and the difference between evil and sin at this point, I was trying to simply say that when the antichrist system comes into full power, it will be done under the authority of God - who delegates to the Dragon, who in turn empowers the beast of the sea and who is joined by the 10 kings - all of which have their power under the authority of God and all of which will DO THE WILL OF GOD to take out Mystery Babylon. I quoted the scripture for this in the original thread, but I am not sure if that part made it into this thread or not. So I am satisfied closing this discussion. I'm not sure how that works on this forum. I will not likely respond anymore in this thread. Thanks! |
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Post by lionofgod on Mar 22, 2021 6:51:30 GMT -6
Thanks yardstick , To be honest, totally not wanting this to sound rude, but I am not really interested in continuing a debate on this topic. The original topic was about whether or not God placed bad kings into power. It was that issue to which I was responding. The responder than took an extremely condescending tone toward that idea and used the following line: lionofgod : "What god NEVER does is condone, encourage, create or inspire evil on any basis! EVER! If you believe otherwise, you Are not reading your bible at all."This was then followed by a statement from another member: disciple4life : "Nowhere does mike even suggest or hint that God creates or designs evil. I can't even see how you could get that. It's not from the verse and not from any post I saw. There are plenty of opinions and lots of room to disagree and discuss, but I don't know a single member on this forum who believes that." The bolding was mine. The rest was original. Because on these two comments, which were already departing from the idea that God sets up and tears down kings, I felt obligated to show that scripture does indeed show that God creates evil. This was the argument I made and it was directly from scripture. I did not make the other arguments that you, yardstick , began to argue against. So your arguments are statements against an idea, but not an idea that I raised or defended. Having said that - Evil and Sin are not even the same thing, yet we often tend to conflate the two. God cannot sin. God created evil. Many Christians have trouble expanding their view of God to be able to hold both of these truths at the same time. Yet they are are both true. He also places a lying tongue in the mouth of prophets at times. Now, I only raise these points because of the intolerant way that lionofgod responded to mike and me. And because of the mis-statement by disciple4life (though done in kindness). I really don't want to have a debate about the nature of God and the difference between evil and sin at this point, I was trying to simply say that when the antichrist system comes into full power, it will be done under the authority of God - who delegates to the Dragon, who in turn empowers the beast of the sea and who is joined by the 10 kings - all of which have their power under the authority of God and all of which will DO THE WILL OF GOD to take out Mystery Babylon. I quoted the scripture for this in the original thread, but I am not sure if that part made it into this thread or not. So I am satisfied closing this discussion. I'm not sure how that works on this forum. I will not likely respond anymore in this thread. Thanks! , benel, mike, disciple4life, yardstick, Brother, Many thanks! The spirit has not convicted me of any error in principle, but you have shown that I may have misspoken in word, as to the evil and sin relationship and my particular choice in word. The wording was my err and not that of Him that speaks through me. I ear og the meat but have not had my fill. Isai and I have yet to meet in this walk, so I will refrain from further comment on the truth of it, till I have partaken and received clarity. disciple4life: "Nowhere does mike even suggest or hint that God creates or designs evil. I can't even see how you could get that. It's not from the verse and not from any post I saw. There are plenty of opinions and lots of room to disagree and discuss, but I don't know a single member on this forum who believes that." disciple4life: -Mike - “Satan does not operate without Gods 'approval’” - The original topic was in God “placing” Trump, kings etc. So, the post by Mike seemed to be in concurrence with that. Which may have been my err in the reading of HIS words. As Benel points out to me, I was not separating sin from evil. So, to restate properly, lionofgod: "What god NEVER does is condone, encourage, create or inspire evil- wrong word, read “SIN” - on any basis! EVER! If you believe otherwise, you Are not reading your bible at all." My apologies to Mike if he was not agreeing with the previous comments as it seemed. My front was at anyone attributing acting in sin to God’ will. Free will prevails here as God intended and allows. Many espouse the idea that God must condone or have part in sin, since he “created all”, That is misleading, God light and separated darkness from it, as evil from good. But Evil then produced sin, not God. A very important distinction is to be made here. God created evil, by separating it from good, thats as far as God has to do with it/evil/sin. I hope this clarifies my meaning. Thanks again Benel for correcting my course. Blashphemy, even perceived is offensive to me. But I should temper my words with more wisdom. disciple4life: I fail to see my offense to you, but if there is, I apologize. For my statement indicates my meaning above, that I stand by, but need purse no further. |
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