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Post by Natalie on Nov 19, 2020 19:23:54 GMT -6
Guess I am not quite sure what you are seeing.
He said when the trees start sprouting leaves...and you and venge are connecting this with fruit.
So, when the Jews and the Church are bearing good fruit? Because they aren't right now?
Is that possible before He returns?
Didn't He ask if He would find faith on the earth when He returns? Luke 18:8
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Post by mike on Nov 19, 2020 20:14:09 GMT -6
NatalieExactly the opposite. They (Jews) can't bear fruit as they are currently anti Christ spirit, and the church is growing more and more apostate every day. It will get worse before He returns. We are to produce fruit, but we have failed (collectively-much like how Daniel identified himself with the sins of the people I say we). The fruit is rotten. Ask yourself if the current faith in Israel is what He would expect to find it He returned today? A fruitless tree is what He would find. A generation not producing fruit
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Post by sog on Nov 19, 2020 20:28:48 GMT -6
Natalie Exactly the opposite. They (Jews) can't bear fruit as they are currently anti Christ spirit, and the church is growing more and more apostate every day. It will get worse before He returns. We are to produce fruit, but we have failed (collectively-much like how Daniel identified himself with the sins of the people I say we). The fruit is rotten. Ask yourself if the current faith in Israel is what He would expect to find it He returned today? A fruitless tree is what He would find. A generation not producing fruit , so are you referencing the 144,00 and the two witnesses that will minister to Israel and the world? |
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Post by mike on Nov 19, 2020 20:31:58 GMT -6
No sog. Apparently I'm doing a horrible job getting my point across. Ill try again tomorrow |
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Post by Natalie on Nov 19, 2020 21:34:07 GMT -6
Natalie Exactly the opposite. They (Jews) can't bear fruit as they are currently anti Christ spirit, and the church is growing more and more apostate every day. It will get worse before He returns. We are to produce fruit, but we have failed (collectively-much like how Daniel identified himself with the sins of the people I say we). The fruit is rotten. Ask yourself if the current faith in Israel is what He would expect to find it He returned today? A fruitless tree is what He would find. A generation not producing fruit
I was reading about figs...A fig tree makes fruit and leaves at the same time. So, when the fig tree is sprouting, it's also putting on fruit.
When this starts taking place, then you know that summer is near. Yes, today He would find a tree with no fruit. But again, the parable doesn't mention fruit. 
Or, maybe the fruit will be developing during the 70th week and be ready when He comes? The tree sprouts, showing His nearness, and will be fully ready at "harvest time". (October? Day of Atonement?) When they cry, "baruch haba b'shem adonai!" (Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord)
As for the Church (the true believers) 1 Thes 5:10 "who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with Him." Or in other words, whether we are being fruitful or not, we are still going to be with Him. (But yes, He also wants us bearing fruit. But that's our faith in action not what saves us or gets us to Him)
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Post by socalexile on Nov 20, 2020 7:15:04 GMT -6
I think Song of Solomon has a lot to say about the end times:
8 “Listen! My beloved!
Behold, he is coming,
Leaping on the mountains,
Jumping on the hills!
9 My beloved is like a gazelle or a young stag.
Behold, he is standing behind our wall,
He is looking through the windows,
He is peering through the lattice.
10 “My beloved responded and said to me,
‘Arise, my darling, my beautiful one,
And come along.
11 For behold, the winter is past,
The rain is over and gone.
12 The blossoms have already appeared in the land;
The time has arrived for pruning the vines,
And the voice of the turtledove has been heard in our land.
13 The fig tree has ripened its fruit,
And the vines in blossom have given forth their fragrance.
Arise, my darling, my beautiful one,
And come along!’”
SoS 2:8-13
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Post by venge on Nov 20, 2020 9:12:19 GMT -6
I think Song of Solomon has a lot to say about the end times: 8 “Listen! My beloved! Behold, he is coming, Leaping on the mountains, Jumping on the hills! 9 My beloved is like a gazelle or a young stag. Behold, he is standing behind our wall, He is looking through the windows, He is peering through the lattice. 10 “My beloved responded and said to me, ‘Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, And come along. 11 For behold, the winter is past, The rain is over and gone. 12 The blossoms have already appeared in the land; The time has arrived for pruning the vines, And the voice of the turtledove has been heard in our land. 13 The fig tree has ripened its fruit, And the vines in blossom have given forth their fragrance. Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, And come along!’” SoS 2:8-13 Excellent quote socalexile , Specifically, That is the entire point mike , and I have been trying to make. Well, from what I understand of Mike's representation above. The tree's bud forth which shows winter is passed and summer is approaching. Fruit will come after budding. But we are not to look for literal trees obviously. Just as the trees bud forth and the fruit follows, its linked to the return and his bride. Believers will see people on earth have a change, and a longing for Christ; this budding will show he is soon to return. An event that we (every Christian) have always longed for..world wide repentance, longing for, rejoicing and faith in Christ and God. Shattering the image of gold, silver, bronze etc... It will bring forth fruit and it will rule them with a rod of iron. Not physical Israel. For the temple that is made is of spiritual Israel and both branches, belong to it making it spiritual. Where all nations come to worship in the spirit. Physical Israel is not the key to Christ return, though a remnant will change. Its the world accepting and believing and calling out to him and to judge those that are wicked. He came to save all, not just the lost house of ancient Israel. But all the lost that do not currently belong to either branch. I said it before, but good find socalexile, |
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Post by Natalie on Nov 20, 2020 9:19:04 GMT -6
so are you saying a world wide revival before He returns?
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Post by venge on Nov 20, 2020 9:25:53 GMT -6
so are you saying a world wide revival before He returns? I am saying A lot. A change of heart even in terrible times. Joel proves that even in terrible times when it seems hopeless, he says rend your heart. Revelation shows that a terrible time comes. We agree on that. But after all the people refuse to repent, they refuse to change from their wickedness, we have 1 event at a late stage that they do. It is the only time we see that they do so. EDIT: If you look at the original verse: The blossoms have already appeared in the land; The time has arrived for pruning the vines, And the voice of the turtledove has been heard in our land. The blosoms come first, then he prunes. I believe that may be the harvest of the earth. The first sickle is actually a small pruning shear. The second is larger meant to swipe away for destruction. This has been mentioned by others who study the words and its meanings. Im looking for a source. |
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Post by Natalie on Nov 20, 2020 9:33:20 GMT -6
But God always has a remnant that are His - they are already believers. That's how that word is used throughout the Bible.
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Post by venge on Nov 20, 2020 9:36:08 GMT -6
But God always has a remnant that are His - they are already believers. That's how that word is used throughout the Bible. Im not saying you doesnt have a remnant. He always does. |
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Post by Natalie on Nov 20, 2020 9:38:51 GMT -6
But the part you quoted and the part underlined did not mention the wicked repenting or world wide faith in Christ. It mentions the remnant.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 20, 2020 9:41:46 GMT -6
I'm not sure the connection of Song of Solomon and the harvest is accurate. You wouldn't prune a tree that is blossoming. Grapevines would be pruned before they start producing not at a harvest.
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Post by Gary on Nov 20, 2020 9:46:40 GMT -6
Christianity is becoming more apostate—true. But the Church itself cannot fail (Mt. 16:18; Jn. 16:33; Phil. 1:6; Rom. 8:37; 16:20; 1 Jn. 2:13).
"Christianity" is a human label defining all of those who call themselves "Christian." (A)
"Church" is a God-defined label defining all of those who belong to the mystical, invisible, indestructible body of Christ through faith. (B)
Many/most/all of those in group B belong to group A, but many/most of those in group A do not belong to group B.
Regarding the fig tree and symbols, I'm largely in agreement with most of what's been said, but we may arrive at different conclusions.
God uses many symbols for Israel: a wife, a firstborn son, a vine, a fig tree, an olive tree, a stick, etc...
God uses many symbols for the Church: a bride, the singular seed of Abraham, a spiritual Temple, a mystical body, also the firstborn son/male child, a royal priesthood, a holy nation (cf. Isa. 66), etc...
These symbols were never intended to be mutually exclusive, but to help us to understand spiritual things through imagery common to us. When a symbol is used then, we first ask if the passage itself defines the symbol. If not, is there another Scripture that defines it? There almost always is. Context is king, too. In the instance of Mt. 24, the context is the end of the age, the return of Christ, and the final fulfillment of God's promises to Israel.
Blessings.
P.S. I'm praying for everyone here today. I pray you will be blessed and that God will open doors for you today to share the gospel. All that matters now is finding lost coins and staying awake because the days are growing dark.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Nov 20, 2020 9:54:43 GMT -6
I have been trying to make this point for a long time. The book of the Revealing of Jesus Christ is about the healing of the world. It is about healing thru repentance a heeling thru refining fire.
I have been trying to make this point as well. There is not a "special" way apart from the cross that our modern day jewish fellows come to follow Christ. Yet, I do see the role they need to play and it is not the 144 thousand...
Absolutely. This is the entire theme of the BoR. Nations coming to heal. People need to set aside the hollywood version of "destruction". I will make a point in a second, as venge said the follwoing, and this a partially agree with...
1Jn 5: 5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
1Pet 7that the proof of your faith -- much more precious than of gold that is perishing, and through fire being approved -- may be found to praise, and honour, and glory, in the revelation of Jesus Christ,
what happens when the Messengers proclaim?
3“And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. 6These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
7The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood, 9and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.
10The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. 11The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.
This is what it looks like from the spiritual perspective of someone's conversion. No one needs to agree with me, but these things I know:
6And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”
He made it ALL, and BEHOLD, He is making ALL THINGS NEW!!!!!!!! Not some things, not a remnant of things, but EVERY THING. I bolded so that if one is speed reading thru my post it amy catch their attention...
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