The Last Trump

Joe,

It is hard for me to gauge a man, who uses the right words in an election, targeting the ones who made him President in 2016.  What does his fruit say over the last 4 years...it seems to be much different.  His words and his actions are opposed.  But, it is nice to hear him say that.  Only God knows his heart and we can only hope that the some of the people around him were a good influence on any belief he may have.  Remember, this is the same man that did a photo op of himself holding a Bible outside Lafayette Square in Washington DC.  He is targeting evangelicals with what they want to hear so he can win.  

Hello Joe, Others.  

I was very glad to see the clip you posted of Trump.  Over and over I've seen clips of him making national speech at Christmas publicly stating it as the birth of "Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.  In my mind, Trump can sound arrogant and his tweets are obnoxious, but it's not about him, or Pence, or a personality. 
I encourage Christians to vote If for no other reason than the issue of the supreme court and religious freedom, for us and the next generation -[if there is one].  

This year, we all have seen multiple confirmed reports of ballot tampering, cartons of completed ballots found in ditches, in dumpsters, and tens of thousands of ballots in Texas sent to the wrong address, as well as the multiple reports of more ballots being counted than there are registered voters even alive in the district-  so i get why people feel that the system is rigged and that even if they vote, the democrats will simply "magically find" the right amount of ballots needed to win, that were postmarked after the election.  ;-(  

Joe, my friend, Please don't see this as challenging you - I just throw this out as stuff to chew on. 

As far as the notion that Trump might/possibly be a candidate for the Antichrist.  I give that exactly as much stock as the possibility that it could be uncircumcised Korean dictator Kim Jong Il, or uncircumcised French prime minister Emmanuel Macron.  
While scripture doesn't explictly say that the AC will be/ must be Jewish, it does explicitly say that He will be from the tribe of Judah.  - we need to really think about what the Jews are looking for now.  Hmmmmm.   
Are they looking for a gentile/ Non-Jewish Messiah??  Absolutely not.   
Cyrus was a gentile who was instrumental in building /funding the temple/ and many so many thousands of Jews say that Trump is a type of Cyrus,-- that they even minted a coin with the image of Trump superimposed over the image of Cyrus, and the 3rd temple on the back.  

The Messiah not only has to be Jewish, but he has to be specifically from the tribe of Judah.    The whole point of the AC is that he is a False Christ, who does miracles - and the Jews 1. already missed the Messiah when He came the first time.  and 2. are earnestly looking for the Messiah - and 3. they will be deceived by the AC, thinking he IS the promised Messiah,  
Think about this for a minute -- -There are very very strict requirements for the priests who are being trained for the temple sacrifices- they have to be able to prove that they are in the tribe/ descendants from Levi.   
Zero  0 chance that an uncircumcised french guy - somehow gets to be in this club - no matter how much the leftists howl and moan discrimination.   Fuggetaboudit. 
So if we can agree that the Jewish priests and political leaders won't even let a guy be trained to do the sacrifices unless he's a Jew from the Tribe of Levi, how would the AC be able to be in the Temple and do sacrifices, if he's a gentile??    
What are the odds that some Dutch guy who speaks Hebrew runs for office of Prime Minister of Israel -  Fuggetaboudit.   
What if some rich powerful, pro-Israel Danish guy, or American guy, or Korean guy comes along and offers millions of dollars to help build the Temple  and wants to put a Ginormous gold "T" on it - you know ...  for "Temple" .   
Maybe that happens, because they will do almost anything for a temple.   I don't think they would go for the Power T, but given the historical precedent of Cyrus - If the Arabs offered to help fund and build the Temple, I think they would be happy to oblige.    

But I have yet to hear or see anyone, anywhere make a solid case for the Jews believing their long awaited Messiah-  the Guy who is supposed to bring Salvation to the Jewish people - and he's not even Jewish??      Fuggetaboudit. 
[We know the rest of the story - Jesus/Yeshua the Messiah - He did, He came, He lived, He died, He rose, and He's coming back and the Jews will recognize him, after many will be deceived by the AC]
Jared Kushner, on the other hand - in my humble opinion, is a totally totally different story.   He's world famous- he's insanely rich, he's very very powerful, from a very powerful rich Jewish family, AND he just happens to be the son-in-law of the most powerful man in the world, and he was the main architect of the Deal of the Century, along with another Jewish guy no one knows.   Greenblat, Greenburg ??  Hmmmm 
 
Disciple4life 

I recall hearing or reading a lot of skepticism by the CHRISTIAN community over Kanye West and his conversion.

We have the problem of seeing celebrities in the worst of behaviour and then to completely doubt their struggle and repentance as wonderful people come along side them to minister and spread the Gospel to them.

THIS is how I see Trump has transformed over the past few year.

Yes, he still is Trump. Would we want him to be any other way but himself? Arent we to come to Him as we are?  Its the inner heart where the truth resides, and you can not tell me any different that this man in office is on the right track for the Lord.

I saw the latest Kanye West campaign ad for himself as president and the message is tear-jerking, very pro-family (which is what blm professess to destroy). The worst of a believer is to not see or have faith in the Lord doing a work in a person right before our eyes, in the media, on stage, while fighting the enemy, and shedding off decades of habit. Tell me, any of you who have had a bad a behavior. Was it so easy to become a saint in a day, and did you KNOW your behavior was what it was? This president loves this country. I am told he does not accept his paycheck for the office he holds, btw. 

By the way, I ALSO saw him hold the bible and it was a positive thing for me, since mainstream media HATE the bible.  There were people destroying not only historical property, but property that ALSO belongs to the people, AND represents religious freedom.  I would have raised the Bible also.

Without intending to poke holes in your enthusiasm, or necessarily disagree with your point; I recall a specific time when Bill Clinton was filmed walking into a church with a Bible in the hand closest to the camera. After the service was over, he was again filmed walking out of the church, with the Bible in the other hand, also closest to the camera. 

Make of that what you will. :-)

barbiosheepgirl ,Joe ,venge ,disciple4life ,yardstick , joe ,

Hello yardstick,   You do raise very good and interesting points.  I think this warrants it's own thread - a lot of interesting themes and things to explore and lots of fascinating rabbit trails to chase.  Heheheh.  
I don't want to derail joe's great thread, but i do want to very briefly address your points/ questions, yardstick.  ;-)   

There are several very significant passages that are in the Tanakh  [Old Testament] which prophesy that the Messiah will be of the line of David, Root of Jesse.   
***Of course we can also find several other passages in the New Testament where Christ himself is described as this very title - having perfectly fulfilled the prophecies. 
I didn't use any NT passages, only because I wanted to show that this thought is so universal - so prevalent among Jews of different groups, that it is considered one of the "core beliefs"  - one of the 13 major Fundamental principles of Judaism.   

Isaiah 11:1-2,
Jeremiah 23:5-6, and Jeremiah 33:15 

    "The fact that Moshiach will be a descendant of both David and Solomon is part of the twelfth (of the thirteen) Jewish fundamental beliefs as outlined by Maimonides." www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1714864/jewish/Is-the-Messiah-a-Descendant-of-King-Solomon.htm



  Yardstick said "I can think of a scenario where someone not jewish sits in the temple proclaiming himself God: Shortly after conquering Jerusalem through invasion. Similar things have occurred in the past. Several times. Even if the literal act of sitting in the temple proclaiming themselves God did not occur, conquest of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount have. Thus, such an opportunity, for a non-jew to do such a thing, must be possible.     I agree that in the case of an invasion, hostile occupation or conquest, that an enemy could do such a thing, but my understanding is that the AC will not be an enemy agressor, but rather a 'wolf in sheep's clothes' - this is supported by the covenant with many, where the Jews are tricked, deceived.  He will even do miracles, and it is believed by many that he will be a major player/ if not the primary one who builds the 3rd Temple.   

Isn't it possible with a return to Israel of Jews from Europe that such a person; from Holland, of Jewish descent; could, in fact, do just such a thing?  I chose Holland, because they are uncircumcised, Non-Jews, as an example, - I was making the case for someone that has no Jewish ethnicity, or such a small amount that it can't be traced.  Could this person run as a candidate for Prime Minister,?  Maybe, but with all the power and influence of Reform and Orthodox Jews in government, it seems unlikely.  When we think about the uncircumcised, Non-Jewish Dutch person being accepted as the long-awaited messiah. I don't see it as a remote chance.  

I have heard somewhere that the Jews do in fact believe that anyone sent by God could be a Messiah. I believe their understanding of the term is not the same as ours. I believe I heard that they considered Cyrus such a person.    Could be. Ive read about people being a "messiah type" because of the characteristics of the Messiah. Interesting is that one of these characteristics is that he rebuilds the Temple.  Not sure 'about anyone sent by God could be Messiah' , as there are so so many 'Jewish denominations'.  I do know that most 'reform Jews" don't believe the Messiah is a literal person. Not a human being, but more of a concept, - an environment that the Jewish people bring about by being better.   Yeah, mind-numbing.  

Right on Stick! Did anyone (save Jesus) know who would betray the Lord? None of the apostles knew until the night before. We should not think we will understand who this person, who Satan will also enter is until he actually is revealed. Sure the pope calls himself the vicar and that alone is heresy but thst doesnt exactly equate to him being the false prophet. Or at least not right now.