The Last Trump

Joe ,

As much as it seems important about Israel, and you being Christ-guided, and wishing to do things in obedience to Him, what were Jesus' commandments to His followers?  He being the Covenant that He is, did He not say, Make followers of me?  Did He not say, Love thy neighbor?  and, even so, love thine enemy?  I know the NT doesn't say it (its in the Old) but the apostles do not talk about protecting the land.  We are also to set our minds of things of the Spirit.  Not things of this earth, for these things of the earth will pass away...  Please dont think I am saying something of an attack on you, or to diss the land dividing topic.   But here come a series of questions in all love of the brethren..

are you a citizen of the USA? You are not voting as an Israeli, you are voting as an American. Or are you Israeli?  I dont know.

Are you an American? Do you understand our Constitution and its founding? Do you believe in this country in its founding was under God, and based on our God-given rights? It is the under God thing and the God-given right thing for why I vote to defend this. NO other nation in the world is like the USA. We need to vote for continued freedoms, especially to worship freely, the right to protect oneself, and the right to speak freely about such things without being muzzled or censored... The latter is rampantly happening in the social media loopholes on such a thing. Have you ever been banned from FB or the like for stating something that IS true but getting accused of it being a "lie."  ?

For the past 30 years or more I have witnessed our country as founded being slowly eroded into just another country, run by a few elite with the rest of us poor. It is masked under the guise of making everything equal so all will benefit, but what it does is undermine God and sets people as gods within themselves seeking to act as a god by providing everything to everyone for the pure purpose of power and greed.

There are plenty of places around the world where a person can go live if they hate America as it was founded. This election is not about the individual person running for the top office, this vote is about defending the only Christ-Celebrating Nation.  The nation that is maybe being divided when it doesn't have its original borders in the first place, is not PRO Jesus.  Just saying.  PLEASE, do not take this as anti-jew.  PLease.  Israel is our ally and the only "free" state in an area we know to be the hot spot of all things God.. yet here:

I still want to know, is today's Israel including the entire Promised Land as promised to Abraham? If not, what is then the second boundary selection given by God? Help educate me on the current land that calls itself Israel. Does it currently include ALL that God said it was to be?  if not, can something that is not whole still be divided?

Since the 60's all US presidents promise something for Israel, and the fact our embassey was moved to Jerusalem by this current president seems to be rather significant for me.  The former admin seemed to set the tables to destroy our ally over there, so....  

Hello Joe,
This is your Otter brother here, and I want to address some topics in the thread, but as mike mentioned, we touched on the political part a bit in another thread, and I don't want to derail this one, so on that point, I'll just say pray for discernment and do what you feel the Holy Spirit is guiding you to do - If that is to vote, then look at the policies - not the personality - and see which policies best line up with scripture.

OK, as you know, buddy, I'm one who believes that the Feasts are God's divine timeclock and that since we have a very clear pattern of the feasts being fufilled in perfect precision in the first four Spring Feasts, and all the feasts point to the messiah, and all the feasts are fulfilled through Christ, we can expect to see the same thing in the fall feasts.   
I have to point out that literally countless people- even those who don't hold this view of the Second Advent being tied with the feasts have seen and do see the odd/interesting/coincidental issue we have now with Trump/Pence and how much this sounds like Trumpets. Hmmmm.
I not saying for sure that it's any kind of sign, but just that it's not by accident.   If the VP's name was Pets,  instead of Pence, then I'd be pulling out my Official Purple Conspiracy cape -- @wishingfor.  Heheheh. 

Regardless of what one thinks of any leader -Trump, Biden, Putin, Macron, Stalin, Washington, King David  or the Pope - scripture is explicitly clear that "Riches and Honor are in his hand, and it is at the Lord's discretion that men are made great and given strength."
Proverbs also says that he "guides a Kings heart like a water brook." - and this is true both for good rulers and evil rulers. Sometimes God even uses evil kings and rulers to accomplish his purpose - Some times this purpose is punishment on his people who rebel against God, and sometimes, it's the consequence of people not taking action.

Let's talk about the Last Trumpet. I totally agree with you Joe, [and by the way, the evidence is overwhelming] that the "Last Trumpet" is not the 7th trumpet, in Revelation. There's all kinds of links and articles about that, but the main nail in the coffin of that fallacious theory is that Revelation was not even written - [literally not even revealed by Christ to John,] until  about 40 years after Pauls death, so Paul could not be referring to something 40 years before Christ revealed it to John.  Besides, scripture is explicitly clear that the 7th trumpet in Revelation are blown by angels, not God, and they are not instant. 

Not sure if it's helpful at all, Joe, but here's two different thoughts-- take them for what they are worth.  
1.   -  I Corinthians 15:51,52 is one of the two most central and most famous rapture passages in the entire Bible.   This is where explicitly says that the resurrection of the dead happens at the "Last Trumpet".    Paul uses the definite article,  "The Last Trumpet"  - which means it's a known event.   Compare , "I'll meet you at a fountain", vs I'll meet you at "The Mermaid fountain"  - which is recognized by tens of millions of people around the world to be "The well-known Mermaid fountain in Copenhagen Denmark."  

Greek has a definite article, just like "The" in English.  "The fountain in the Town Square."   Multiple fountains in St Louis, but only one fountain in the square, and only one town square in a town.  The Last Trumpet was instantly recognizable to the hearers , not some mysterious, unknown future event, or some enigmatic reference to something they had never heard of. 

2. Most Bible translations have this phrase in this verse as "the Last Trumpet".   But KVJ and a few others have "the Last Trump". It may be interesting to do a further Greek and English word study, joe - maybe not. 
The word "trump" is different and distinct from trumpet.  Trumpet means the instrument or rams horn itself, but the word trump means the sound or blast of a trumpet.   
This is particularly true in Hebrew as well as English.  Teruah means shout or blasting.  So Feast of Trumpets is Yom Teruah, and literally means Day of Blasting or "Day of Shouting."   
In the specific feast of trumpets festival, there are multiple kinds of "blasts"  which represent different things - one is a long, solid awakening blast, and others are short, rapid staccato blasts which are meant to sound like crying.   The  100th blast is the Last Trump/ Last Blast, and it is called Tekia Gadola, which means the Great Blast.  

It's interesting, because this week marks the end of the time when there could be an extra "2nd Adar" or Leap month added into the Hebrew calendar.  There is a theory that this is a leap year, and so Feast of Trumpets should be Oct 17-19.    
We will see.

Disciple4life 

All,

Let’s not call theories fallacies as they are theories and people are easily offended as well as that invalidates a posters view. I don’t think Pre TB proponents would like if someone posted that theory was a fallacy would they?

As easily as someone says here is an error with one theory, we can easily get 3 more in another theory. No reason to light a fire and pick a fight!

I'm voting. Not because my hope is in this system but because I am in this world until God takes us out, and I think there is a separation between the two candidates - one has a head wound and is a puppet of the established corrupt system (along with China) that has accused the other of everything ty are doing. Now it's all coming out. 

Regardless how I goes, I am Christ's, and when it is time He will come to redeem the purchased possession. 

Biden is a centralist and he is pretty old.  I don't see him doing any of those things.  He didn't do it during his VP tenure and he did not do it in the senate.  There will be changes back to Obama admin type policies, but even then, Churches were opened.  He is a catholic regardless of his testimony and by that regard, he is not looking to dismantle the church.  

Now, after saying all that, his policies could put pressure on the church.  Policies that call into question gender transgender rights, Churches that also have schools and things of this nature. 

When we look at the future in Revelation, I don't see the Church being erased.  I see the Church forgetting who it is and leaving its first love for the world.  The church will change and let more of the world into its pews in the form of "we love everyone and their sins" instead of "love your neighbor" but not the sin.  

It is possible a time will come that there is a large anti-church or anti-evangelical crowd that blames Christians for something.  It happened in Rome when Caesar blamed them for the fire.  It could happen again in our political world. 

What worries me is if Biden passes.  He is old and frail..and will he make it 4 years?.  He will be 78 years old before inauguration day.  4 years puts him at 82.  --  If something did happen, Kamala would be POTUS and that worries me.

Nice can of worms being opened, LOL!

I know there are many Believers who come to this site, and have an opposing view of politics than what I will be saying next.  I dont want to offend you, but I do have the right to express how I see things, and you have the right to not agree with me, so lets just pre-accept to agree to disagree. Afterall, THANK GOD, when He returns, this all will be a non-issue (politics). 


Here is my rant:

if you only watch the major networks and cnn for your news, you have no idea how corrupt the Biden dynasty is. I hope to never HAVE to vote for a person who has spent his (purposeful use of pronoun implying both sexes) entire career solely as a politician. Huge red flags for me on that alone.

also, those who also get their news on politics thru FB, Instagram and Twitter in the past few months have no idea the china/biden/ukraine connection, nor are they receiving the truths on covid from masks to treatments, suggested by real doctors on the front lines.

I understand how Trump makes peoples' skin crawl with how he voices himself. I would take a thousand trumps over a polluted/anti-Constituion party, which by the way, has its supporters (big tech) interfering with people getting the truth about the Bidens, and covid.

Biden's health and mental state? I think it is cruel and borders on elder abuse what they are trying to pull off to elect this soul as "leader" of this Nation. Make no mistake:  He is NOT centrist, he is a cameleon.


This country is divided, and I find that prophetic.  We are being lied to daily by news sources that USED to be trustful. That is prophetic.   And people representing denominations of Christianity (and Judaism mind you ) in office that are the epitome of lawlessness, that is prophetic.