Who are the 24 elders ?

Good thoughts, and I have wondered the same things. But I do believe (with no other evidence to the contrary) that they are 24 individuals, who have lived human lives upon this earth.

rt I believe had some thoughts on this at one point. . . . which differed with what you suggested, and also differed somewhat with what I have supposed all along. . .

One possibility is that these are elders of Israel, possibly raised again in their incorruptible bodies during that time at Jesus' crucifixion when many who were in the graves came forth and appeared to many. We are not told whether these ones returned to their graves, or went on to Heaven, but it is a possibility that these are the same ones. But I do not know.

Your assumptions could be true, however I see it differently. If we look to scripture we see where John was caught up to in the Revelation. He was caught up into the heavenly tabernacle. All the elements are there described for us by John; the throne of God, the seven lamps of fire, the "sea", the cherubim, the altar of incense. We know that the earthly tabernacle was patterned after the heavenly one:


Here in Hebrews we also see clearly that the heavenly sanctuary/ tabernacle served as the pattern for the earthly one built by Moses.


Now what is interesting in the Hebrews passage is that this "pattern" was not only for the building but extends to the priests also. The High priests we are told served as a "copy" and a shadow of heavenly things". They served as a foreshadow of Christ who is the ultimate high priest. But they also serve as a copy of heavenly things. What do we see in the heavenly tabernacle along with all the other things I mentioned above? We see the 24 elders. There were 24 divisions of the priesthood on earth during the times of the temple, divided according to families descended from the tribe of Levi (See 1 Chronicles 24). I would suggest that the 24 elders that John sees in the heavenly tabernacle are the heavenly pattern for the earthly priesthood. 

I would also suggest that it is fairly obvious that when John is caught up into the heavenly tabernacle he actually sees an event transpire from his past. he witnesses the transition from the Old Covenant to the New. He sees what the passages in Hebrews 8-10 describe in detail. You will notice that when he first enters he sees the seven lamps of fire burning

But later after the Lamb enters standing as if slain we see a change in these "seven spirits of God":


We see the seven spirits of God now being sent out into all the earth by the Lamb, represented by His seven horns having seven eyes. Isn't what we see at Pentecost a perfect picture of this change?

We also see a change in the actions of the 24 elders and living creatures, when John first encounters them we see them here:



But after the lamb enters we see them doing this:

They sing a New Song, The old song sang  praises to the creator, the new song sings the song of the New Covenant! It is painfully clear that what John sees here as the Lamb enters the heavenly tabernacle standing as if slain, is the inauguration of the New Covenant era, in Christ the lamb who has just ascended into heaven after His death and resurrection by which He redeemed mankind with His blood- "men from every tribe, tongue and nation". Salvation being extended to the gentiles. You will also notice that this new song talks about how the Lamb has made these folks to be a kingdom and priests to God. John makes a similar comment early on in the Revelation here:

So if John says that Jesus made us to be a kingdom and priests to God here in the opening statement of the revelation, it has to be an event from his past. Not a future event. And if what John sees in the heavenly Tabernacle is in fact the transition from the Old Covenant era to the New, and when the Lamb enters as if slain is actually the moment that Jesus ascended into heaven after His death and resurrection, and I believe it is, then there is no way that the 24 elders can be the church. 

The idea that the 24 elders sit on thrones is not necessarily an indication that they are the church. No we do not see angels sitting on thrones in scripture, however these are not described as angels, but as elders. Yes the church will share in Christ's authority, and we are told that the disciples will sit on thrones in the millennial kingdom as well, to Judge Israel. But I would suggest that these elders are a heavenly high court. Not unlike the Sanhedrin who were also known as the council of the elders, who by the way also sat on thrones as they rendered judgement and included the High preists.  That they wear crowns shows their authority. The high priest on earth also wore a golden crown with the inscription "holy to the Lord" written on it. The earthly high priest also wore white robes when he entered the holy of holies on the Day of atonement. Again these things were ordained by God and commanded by Him as part that same pattern given to Moses. 

We also see throughout scripture that angels appear in similar white shining garments. Just because they wear white robes doesn't mean they are the church. I would say that white robes are the heavenly raiment, they are the required uniform for all who enter the heavenly tabernacle. When the church enters we will also be clothed in the heavenly raiment of white robes.

No where in the passages that talk about these 24 elders do we see any indication that these elders are part of the church, in fact we see a little later on those who fit that description to a "T":


Now some make the claim that these elders could be made up of OT patriarchs or even those who came out of their graves when Jesus died at Calvary. But again I would have to disagree with this idea. Since Jesus was the firstborn of the dead to enter into the heavenly tabernacle, other humans could not have preceded Him in the resurrection to be there before His arrival as the Lamb standing as if slain. 

These are my thoughts on the subject, if you want to hear more about my thoughts I started a thread here:

unsealed.boards.net/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-rapture

I have great respect for Thomas Ice, I just happen to disagree with his conclusions concerning this topic. 

Watchmanjim, I also wondered if the 24 elders could indeed represent some of the old testament saints after the resurrection of Christ . This idea is something to ponder.

Thanks for your consideration, and yes I do believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, I also see much in scripture to support it.

Ahhh....is everybody feeling the love and freedom and liberty again?

Where is the forever part?


1Ch 24:1  Now these are the divisions of the sons of Aaron. The sons of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. 

1Ch 24:2  But Nadab and Abihu died before their father, and had no children: therefore Eleazar and Ithamar executed the priest's office. 

1Ch 24:3  And David distributed them, both Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, according to their offices in their service. 

1Ch 24:4  And there were more chief men found of the sons of Eleazar than of the sons of Ithamar; and thus were they divided. Among the sons of Eleazar there were sixteen chief men of the house of their fathers, and eight among the sons of Ithamar according to the house of their fathers. 

1Ch 24:5  Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for the governors of the sanctuary, and governors of the house of God, were of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.