burt
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by burt on Sept 17, 2020 22:50:23 GMT -6
Brothers and sisters,
It is with the utmost humility and deepest love for the brethren that I encourage all to search the Scriptures and seek the knowledge of YaHoVaH through His Ruach HaKodesh. The resurrection, and gathering of believers that remain, will assuredly occur on Yom Teruah, however it will not be this year, nor next year, nor next. Do not lose faith, as It will occur exactly as YaHoVaH has laid out for us, having told the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). Yeshua explained it in Matthew 24 and Paul expounded upon this many times, in 1 Thessalonians 5 and 2 Thessalonians 2. No need to get anxious as if it is imminent, y’all know the times and seasons, so no need for me to write to you concerning the times and seasons (To paraphrase Paul in my southernese). We will most assuredly go through Jacob’s Trouble, after all it is Jacob’s Trouble, not Judah’s Trouble. We will live the restoration and redemption, we will be able to teach and lead many to the family during this time. There will be a great latter rain outpouring (James 5:7). People will be talking about how YaHoVaH through Yeshua brought us out of Jacob’s Trouble (Jeremiah 23:7-8). We will be saved out of it, not from it, when the resurrection and gathering together occurs (Yom Teruah) right before YaHoVaH’s wrath is poured out during the days of awe. We are not appointed to the bowls of wrath. While the bowls are poured out, we will be at the sea of fire and glass - judgement and receiving rewards. Revelation 11:15-19
Hold fast brethren! Overcome not through our strength or goodness, for we have none without Yeshua, but rather through His precious blood. Keep YaHoVaH’s commands (out of love and by the Ruach) and maintain our testimony of Yeshua our Messiah for He has and will yoshia! Revelation 7:14; Revelation 12:17
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Post by mike on Sept 18, 2020 7:46:58 GMT -6
burt welcome to the unsealed discussion community forum; thank you for your insight. Though there are some who would agree with your eschatology view, there are others who see the end times a bit differently. The beauty of what we do a lot on here is discuss our views and why we see things this way. Since eschatology is what most consider to be 'non-essential' we try to sharpen one another in our perspectives. Thank you again and your contributions to discussions are welcome!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 9:38:46 GMT -6
Brothers and sisters, It is with the utmost humility and deepest love for the brethren that I encourage all to search the Scriptures and seek the knowledge of YaHoVaH through His Ruach HaKodesh. The resurrection, and gathering of believers that remain, will assuredly occur on Yom Teruah, however it will not be this year, nor next year, nor next. Do not lose faith, as It will occur exactly as YaHoVaH has laid out for us, having told the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). Yeshua explained it in Matthew 24 and Paul expounded upon this many times, in 1 Thessalonians 5 and 2 Thessalonians 2. No need to get anxious as if it is imminent, y’all know the times and seasons, so no need for me to write to you concerning the times and seasons (To paraphrase Paul in my southernese). We will most assuredly go through Jacob’s Trouble, after all it is Jacob’s Trouble, not Judah’s Trouble. We will live the restoration and redemption, we will be able to teach and lead many to the family during this time. There will be a great latter rain outpouring (James 5:7). People will be talking about how YaHoVaH through Yeshua brought us out of Jacob’s Trouble (Jeremiah 23:7-8). We will be saved out of it, not from it, when the resurrection and gathering together occurs (Yom Teruah) right before YaHoVaH’s wrath is poured out during the days of awe. We are not appointed to the bowls of wrath. While the bowls are poured out, we will be at the sea of fire and glass - judgement and receiving rewards. Revelation 11:15-19 Hold fast brethren! Overcome not through our strength or goodness, for we have none without Yeshua, but rather through His precious blood. Keep YaHoVaH’s commands (out of love and by the Ruach) and maintain our testimony of Yeshua our Messiah for He has and will yoshia! Revelation 7:14; Revelation 12:17 Welcome Burt! Please don't speak with authority. We're all trying to figure it out. We'd love to see your case presented here, to consider your interpretation. |
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 18, 2020 12:29:58 GMT -6
Welcome Burt,
It is always nice when other fellow watchmen join our tribe.
As you may have seen by now, there are scores of threads on every topic imaginable.
Lots of room hete to discuss and disagree.
I try to make my best case for this and other topics with scripture, history, and supplement this with things from culture, commentaries, astronomy and the Talmud.
At the end of the day, no matter how much I've tried, some people still don't like biscuits and gravy and sweet tea, and half of my watchmen family don't see the Feasts as relevant to Gentiles/ don't see end times events necessarily being tied to feast days, or some think the harpazo will be at Pentecost. 🤔
And i still love them.
I honestly would like to understand how you come to this conclusion- as my youth leader was Pre-trib and then changed to pre-wrath.
Blessings,
Disciple4life
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burt
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by burt on Sept 19, 2020 0:37:47 GMT -6
Thank yall for the warm welcome. It is always good to come together and reason with the brethren.
disciple4life,
To answer your question...the grace of YaHoVaH. His grace alone, for His good will and purpose, humbles; corrects; instructs; and leads to understanding the “fear of YaHoVaH” which is the “beginning of knowledge”.
Hebrews 3:1-14
V1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Yeshua.
V4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is YaHoVaH. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; but Yeshua as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end (telos).
Matthew 24
V3 ...what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
V6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end (telos) is not yet.
V13 But he that shall endure unto the end (telos), the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end (telos) come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
V21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
V29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Yeshua, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end (telos)
Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of YaHoVaH should be finished (telos) as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.
Revelation 11
V15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of YaHoVaH, and of Yeshua; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
V18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thyservants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
It’s in Revelation 11 that we are told of the two witnesses and how after their death they are raised to life and called to “come up hither” and ascend up to heaven. Yom Teruah is a Rosh Chodesh, so it was declared after two witnesses approached with their report of sighting the first sliver of the new moon. The high priest would call them up, hear their report and then declare the new month, and in this case Yom Teruah. Here in Revelation 11 the two witnesses are called up by THE High Priest...
Also, once YaHoVaH has impressed upon us who we really are, the Scriptures open up and ALL becomes real.
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Ruach HaKodesh, whom the Father will send in My Name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Shabbat Shalom!
With all brotherly love
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 19, 2020 6:10:49 GMT -6
Thank you, Burt. This is very interesting and I think if it is correct, it gives us another significant piece of the many clues for a rapture (Harpazo) at Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah. My question is this. Is the source of this the Talmud [Jewish commentary on the OT /Tanakh] or where.? It's not a 'gotchya' question. Most every one here knows I'm a firm believer in the Feasts as God's divine prophetic calendar. But I try to interpret scripture with scripture and when I use something from the Talmud,or Jewish culture, it has to agree with or confirm scripture. About the other thing, you gave us several scriptures, but nothing I could see that shows we are not caught up/ raptured. - In Revelation 4, we have a Pre-trib rapture picture.
- Chapters 1-4, John is writing about/ talking to real churches in Turkey.
- Then we have the door of heaven is opened. Yom ha Dalet, is one of the names for Feast of Trumpets - The Day the Door of the Heaven is opened.
- The shout of God and the voice says "Come up here." And then no more mention of the church until the end.
- Feast of Trumpets in Hebrew is Yom Teruah, and it is literally translated as Day of Shouting, or Day of Blasting. In Christ's parable of the wedding, The groom comes with a shout.
This confirms and parallels what Paul said 1 Thes. 5:15-17 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, [**Totally distinct, separate event as contrasted with the rapture- Harpazo] will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words." If Christians are not raptured before the tribulation, then Paul's words to encourage one another makes no sense. Also, Christ himself gave us another clear rapture picture in the parable of the 5 wise bridesmaids [Jewish wedding]. In the Jewish wedding the bride is literally lifted up and carried away into the wedding chamber for 7 days. We have to ask ourselves a question, and there is only one answer. The choices are mutually exclusive. Either we believe Christ, the Apostle Paul and Apostle John and the OT prophets wrote things about the rapture and subsequent second coming to tell us so we could watch, know, OR we believe that all these writers intentionally meant to trick us, to deceive us. ?? I think the answer is obvious. Maranatha. Blessed and Joyful Feast of Trumpets!!! |
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 19, 2020 9:02:36 GMT -6
burt, mike, boymaker, disciple4life, nana, sog, Beloved, Joecool, bruce, yardstick, inaweofhim, fitz, boraddict, barbiosheepgirl, @reepicheep, stormyknight, Another fantastic video guys. This one is so incredible, - so much information, it's really like trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant. Be prepared to get your face ripped off. LOL. There is more solid scriptural evidence for the Harpazo at Feast of Trumpets, than evidence to prove the Trinity. Don't misunderstand me- I'm not questioning or disputing the Trinity, or suggesting that there is not plenty of scriptural support. I'm simply saying that in the last days, there will be an increase of knowledge, and what we know know from astronomy, and Jewish tradition, and the feast days, and Bible study language tools, like Bible Hub, and Blueletter Bible, and the software like Starrynight and Stellarium is all confirming God's perfect timing and precision. I love the point about how the Bride/Earth circles the Groom/Sun 3 times in the Hebrew wedding. This confirms all the things about the Rev 12 sign 3 years ago. If you are interested in the Rev 12 sign, and or astronomy, and or Feast Days of the Lord, - then this is a Super Chinese Buffet with a bonus desert bar and a chocolate fountain. ***Spoiler alert. Skip 5 minutes through the karaoke. At first i thought it was a whole video of 'home' songs over the last 50 years. LOL.
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Post by inaweofhim on Sept 19, 2020 12:13:48 GMT -6
burt, mike, boymaker, disciple4life, nana, sog, Beloved, Joecool, bruce, yardstick, inaweofhim, fitz, boraddict, barbiosheepgirl, @reepicheep, stormyknight, Another fantastic video guys. This one is so incredible, - so much information, it's really like trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant. Be prepared to get your face ripped off. LOL. There is more solid scriptural evidence for the Harpazo at Feast of Trumpets, than evidence to prove the Trinity. Don't misunderstand me- I'm not questioning or disputing the Trinity, or suggesting that there is not plenty of scriptural support. I'm simply saying that in the last days, there will be an increase of knowledge, and what we know know from astronomy, and Jewish tradition, and the feast days, and Bible study language tools, like Bible Hub, and Blueletter Bible, and the software like Starrynight and Stellarium is all confirming God's perfect timing and precision. I love the point about how the Bride/Earth circles the Groom/Sun 3 times in the Hebrew wedding. This confirms all the things about the Rev 12 sign 3 years ago. If you are interested in the Rev 12 sign, and or astronomy, and or Feast Days of the Lord, - then this is a Super Chinese Buffet with a bonus desert bar and a chocolate fountain. D4L - you make me laugh and smile so much! I am beside you with enthusiasm! All I know right this minute is: HE absolutely loves us, and our excitement/anticipation at seeing HIM! HALLELUJAH! MARANATHA! |
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Post by stormyknight on Sept 19, 2020 16:52:35 GMT -6
Thanks, for that disciple4life,. that video is very uplifting and hope-giving! I think I can hold out a little longer! Maranatha!!!!! |
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Post by venge on Sept 20, 2020 7:01:34 GMT -6
Paul's words were not teaching a Pre Trib, Post Tb, Pre Wrath or any other rapture theory in these words simply by saying to comfort one another. The Thessalonians were grieving for their lost friends who had died, been martyred etc.. and the comfort was to know anyone who dies in Christ will be made whole; that they would see their friends again. There is great comfort in knowing we don't need to feel sorrowful when other's in Christ pass. This is the way in every Church that I know, every Christian at a funeral believes these things and is comforted. It has no boundaries restricted to Pre TB or another theory. It is a comfort knowing where they are, what will happen to them and that they will be given new bodies.
If Christians are not raptured before persecution....then there is no comfort? How do you explain that to Christ who was the first to be persecuted in the New Covenant? Noah, Moses and so on through the O.T. to Paul, Stephen, and countless thousands after all persecuted and slain by the methods of man. Are they not to have comfort knowing their fellow man who was and will be persecuted will be accepted and live again where nothing could harm them? There is great comfort in that regardless of any theory someone holds. Paul's words make complete sense. Anyone who lives for Christ and dies - gains. There is great comfort in knowing they will return and their sacrifice will be rewarded. Knowing such, we should work for God regardless of the persecutions we endure. If you are sent to Rwanda, and your fellow believers are under duress from Al-Shabaab, I would rest knowing if they are killed preaching the word (persecution), I would see them again when they are resurrected and the unimaginable rewards given to them for their service.
This particular parable is understandable regardless if you have been to a Jewish wedding or not. Perhaps Christ made it that way because he knows how many Gentile nations would convert.
Where is the door shown to be shut in Ch. 4 ? And if its shut, how did the martyrs of the 5th seal enter into the vision in heaven after the 6th seal was finished as John is told by an Elder "these came out of great tribulation." Once the door is shut, its shut till all is complete right? If not, where does it re-open and re-close?
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Post by uscgvet on Sept 20, 2020 7:23:14 GMT -6
burt , mike , boymaker , disciple4life , nana , sog , Beloved , Joecool , bruce , yardstick , inaweofhim , fitz , boraddict , barbiosheepgirl , @reepicheep , stormyknight , Another fantastic video guys. This one is so incredible, - so much information, it's really like trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant. Be prepared to get your face ripped off. LOL. There is more solid scriptural evidence for the Harpazo at Feast of Trumpets, than evidence to prove the Trinity. Don't misunderstand me- I'm not questioning or disputing the Trinity, or suggesting that there is not plenty of scriptural support. I'm simply saying that in the last days, there will be an increase of knowledge, and what we know know from astronomy, and Jewish tradition, and the feast days, and Bible study language tools, like Bible Hub, and Blueletter Bible, and the software like Starrynight and Stellarium is all confirming God's perfect timing and precision. I love the point about how the Bride/Earth circles the Groom/Sun 3 times in the Hebrew wedding. This confirms all the things about the Rev 12 sign 3 years ago. If you are interested in the Rev 12 sign, and or astronomy, and or Feast Days of the Lord, - then this is a Super Chinese Buffet with a bonus desert bar and a chocolate fountain. ***Spoiler alert. Skip 5 minutes through the karaoke. At first i thought it was a whole video of 'home' songs over the last 50 years. LOL. Agreed, quite a lot of great content in the video. Edit: thanks for the Skip 5 minutes tip. LOL. This man is an acquired taste. ;-D |
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Post by mike on Sept 21, 2020 8:25:56 GMT -6
burt - I am not certain how often you do or will visit the site. As noted earlier it is nice to have you here and I would like to hear more of your understanding regarding your post. My current understanding is Jacob = Israel. What are you ascribing to Judah? Can you elaborate on this portion of your post a bit more for me? disciple4life - A piece of your post was a bit ambiguous as to the reference point and I would ask you to clarify for me: I'm not sure I understand what this is in reference to? First I would say that there are those who do believe in the rapture and second coming being one in the same. There is scripture to support this position albeit perhaps not as 'weighty' as some other rapture/second coming views. This statement could be reading as if you are saying any other view is wrong, or the writers tried to deceive us. I believe that after many years conversing with you that I know your position but others (especially a guest or new poster likely doesnt) may not see what you said clearly. Would you mind clearing this up?
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andrew
Layman
Still here...till the end.
Posts: 99 
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Post by andrew on Sept 21, 2020 9:05:46 GMT -6
bradwatsonmiami , Going to have to ask you to put them brakes on a minute and go read our forum rules. I'll even post rule 1 for you here: 1. No debating core doctrines of the Christian faith. If you are participating here you should be a committed Believer. Seekers and non-Christians are more than welcome also, but this is a forum that honors God's Word and therefore arguments against His Word aren't for this forum... questions are welcome though! For purposes of this forum, "core doctrines" are considered to be the historic tenets of Christianity: One self-existent God, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the virgin birth, the full deity of Christ, the substitutionary atonement, the literal and physical resurrection of Christ, salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, a literal and future bodily resurrection of the dead, and a historical-grammatical interpretation of Scripture. Premillennialism, a literal rapture of the Church to Heaven, and a literal/historical interpretation of Genesis 1-11 are also considered core doctrines.
You just excluded a large number of believers with this criteria. While I believe he is wrong, trying to stifle discussion is equally bad.
If you believe it is that big of a problem, why don't you try to show him what you believe instead of making a blanket statement.
It is well known that the word rapture itself is contentious in certain circles. Though again, I agree that argument has no valid linguistic basis, the fact is many Christians disagree with the use of it. Also, there are many good brothers and sisters in Christ who still do not hold to a Pretribulational belief, and many of those who have an issue with the word rapture itself hold a mid-tribulational/pre-wrath belief.
In short, let's not turn into Jesus's own SJW's.
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Post by Gary on Sept 21, 2020 10:15:37 GMT -6
We have pretty much the most lenient rules of any forum studying prophecy (at least that I know of). We kept it simple on purpose. Just three rules. But it isn't a free-for-all. Also, it's clear in the rules that you don't have to agree with rule #1. Everyone is welcome and can ask whatever question they want to, but when it comes to *debate* we draw the line on these things.
Also, the rule doesn't stipulate pre-trib, just that you regard Paul's words in 1 Thess. 4 as literal truth. The Church will be raptured.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 21, 2020 11:03:45 GMT -6
andrewAnd I did explain what I believe, with Scripture, in another thread. He told me that sounded like a zombie apocalypse and then went on to say Jesus was an Essene who taught reincarnation.
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