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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 2:00:49 GMT -6
neural , that's a great plea for the importance of (our) free will and for how (our) free will fits with God's will (1 Timothy 2:4). I agree with a lot of points you brought up here.
It's also a bit like a puzzle.
All pieces are on the table, if you will you can look at the pieces as verses of the bible. And all pieces must easily fit within the big picture without being forced into. If one does not fit, then we need to reconsider our position, what can be very hard sometimes....
But I also beg to not throw out of the window every teaching and sound exegesis of old. Surely we have some advantages, because we have seen Israel coming back to life as a nation. We have seen the fulfillment of several prophecies which some scholars in former times not even have dreamed of coming true. But that's no reason to be proud or think less of our predecessors.
Maybe the following scriptures are applicable to this:
Daniel 12:4
"But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
Luke 12:48 "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."
The more you know, the less excuse...
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 24, 2019 21:30:13 GMT -6
Hello fellow watchers
One of my favorite movies is Princess Bride and i especially love the line "i don't think that means what you think it means". A lot of the struggle and division is that people often use language that is ambiguous, different terms for the same thing.
I love the thread as i have totally totally re- examined my beliefs and have changed my position 180 degrees from how i was raised (family) as well as what was taught in churches.
Just for sake of clarity, can you tell us with this exercise just a few helpful things.
So we're all understanding what is dressing and what is stuffing.
1 . many see the rapture and the second coming as two distinctly different events. Day of Christ vs Day of the Lord. Just for this exercise are you meaning them as distinctly different separate events?
2 regardless of timing of rapture- here going from the post-trib view, are you of the view that there is a 7 year Tribulation period?
Disciple4Life
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neural
Truth Seeker
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Post by neural on Oct 28, 2019 2:01:28 GMT -6
disciple4life, If I look at things through the lens of pre-tribulation rapture, I see no reason to not look at the Day of the Lord and the Day of Christ as different. Regarding the length of the tribulation, I see that as potentially in question as well. There are mentions of 1260 days here and there, but the events they pertain to don't necessarily happen sequentially. However, specifically regarding the two witnesses, their purpose *may* begin after the anti-Christ declares himself god in the temple. With all that in mind, with each day that passes, I am personally leaning less and less on the idea that we are in the tribulation, and am more and more confused and, frankly, annoyed, that there is no clear reason for Sept 23rd, 2017
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Post by raindrop on Oct 28, 2019 3:34:35 GMT -6
neural , I know what you mean. It doesn't appear clear at all. But, the fact of the matter is that it happened. It was there. Revelation 12 tells us that a great "Sign" appeared in heaven. It was a signal to the believers. Spookily enough, your post led me to doing a day count on the Date Duration calendar and it will be 777 days from September 23rd, 2017 to November 9th, 2019. Here in the UK, we put the day before the month...so it appears like 9/11. Psalm 90:12 sayS, "so teach us to number our days, that we may apply ourselves to wisdom". With Ezekiel 38 and Isaiah 17 unfolding rapidly, I don't believe the 777 is inconsequential. I'm also watching October 31st as a day that something may happen. WW3 being announced perhaps? It's Halloween with all it's creepy connotations. Also, Mexico's infamous Day of the Dead is being celebrated on November 1st and 2nd. They dress up as skeletons - seriously evil stuff. As for not being in tribulation - I think the Christians in the Middle East, would strongly disagree. They have been in tribulation for a number of years now. We have been spared the severity of Christian persecution in the 1st world. Thank the LORD. Once the AC comes to power, the 1st world will no longer just be "watching" it all unfold. Thank Almighty God's promise that we believers are not appointed to wrath. Please come soon, LORD Jesus. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+90%3A12-17&version=KJV
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Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 6:30:02 GMT -6
disciple4life , If I look at things through the lens of pre-tribulation rapture, I see no reason to not look at the Day of the Lord and the Day of Christ as different. Regarding the length of the tribulation, I see that as potentially in question as well. There are mentions of 1260 days here and there, but the events they pertain to don't necessarily happen sequentially. However, specifically regarding the two witnesses, their purpose *may* begin after the anti-Christ declares himself god in the temple. With all that in mind, with each day that passes, I am personally leaning less and less on the idea that we are in the tribulation, and am more and more confused and, frankly, annoyed, that there is no clear reason for Sept 23rd, 2017 If your lens changes to "signs of His return" and put aside pre, mid, post, etc. for a moment we may be able to see more clearly as the day approaches. I have little doubt the Great Sign of Rev 12 meant something. I do believe it has to do with the last days and a marker of such. As we review whats unfolding we see Iran, Russia, Turkey in Syria. Israel surrounded. False hope of peace. The governments of the world in turmoil. Wickedness in abundance. Patience dear brother. |
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Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 6:41:19 GMT -6
neural , I know what you mean. It doesn't appear clear at all. But, the fact of the matter is that it happened. It was there. Revelation 12 tells us that a great "Sign" appeared in heaven. It was a signal to the believers. Spookily enough, your post led me to doing a day count on the Date Duration calendar and it will be 777 days from September 23rd, 2017 to November 9th, 2019. Here in the UK, we put the day before the month...so it appears like 9/11. Psalm 90:12 sayS, "so teach us to number our days, that we may apply ourselves to wisdom". With Ezekiel 38 and Isaiah 17 unfolding rapidly, I don't believe the 777 is inconsequential. I'm also watching October 31st as a day that something may happen. WW3 being announced perhaps? It's Halloween with all it's creepy connotations. Also, Mexico's infamous Day of the Dead is being celebrated on November 1st and 2nd. They dress up as skeletons - seriously evil stuff. As for not being in tribulation - I think the Christians in the Middle East, would strongly disagree. They have been in tribulation for a number of years now. We have been spared the severity of Christian persecution in the 1st world. Thank the LORD. Once the AC comes to power, the 1st world will no longer just be "watching" it all unfold. Thank Almighty God's promise that we believers are not appointed to wrath. Please come soon, LORD Jesus. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+90%3A12-17&version=KJV Is it odd that many are watching Oct 31/Nov 1 as a day? I think about Halloween in the context of its possible relation to Noah. Wait what, Noah? Some of you may know this however I hadnt heard of it until about a year ago. The roots of this day have some evidence all the way back to Noah and eventually Babylon. For a better synopsis than I can I provide try this article |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Oct 28, 2019 11:59:53 GMT -6
raindrop said, I find this to be rather very interesting. There are very many things directly related to the election of Trump that involve the number 777. When he was inaugurated, he was 70 years, 7 months and 7 days old. This was just one of very many things involving 7. I think the Lord has had a pretty good sense of humor regarding the election of 2016, numbers and names' wise.. I take Seven as 'the number of completeness and perfection (both physical and spiritual). It derives much of its meaning from being tied directly to God's creation of all things.' But before people give me grief, who are those not fond of 45, my point is that I see the Lord is the One who is ultimately running the show. The numbers that I see seem to remind of that. Its not the person specifically of DJT, but that there is a confirmation to me that we are really in the End timings, when these numbers show up this way. I don't seek the numbers, but rather, hindsight say, "Uh, Ok, that's interesting." so to me the 45th pres is a reminder that God is the One who appoints.. This Nov 9th, the date duration from Sept 23 may be pointing to something appointed. It will be interesting to see. 11/9/2019 falls on a Saturday this year. It is the 45th Saturday of the year. It is the Fall of the Wall Day in Germany. My question back, though to the title of Are we there yet? is, why not consider a complete 7 year from the Sign? Why are there those among us that are thinking something will happen rapture wise this year? We are not even 3 1/2 years from the sign. Also, the other Full Eclipse making the "x" over the US, hasn't happened yet. If we are to take the whole Gospel of the Stars into account, why expect a rapture event prior to a complete 7 year from the Sign? or at minimum, a 3 1/2 year? Just asking.
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Post by mike on Oct 28, 2019 12:26:00 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl - agree on timing. why not 1260 after 9/23/17 or 1290 or 1335 or 1260 + 1260 (1290, 1335). These things in the ME still need more time to fulfill. They are seemingly all in place but "in the fullness of time"
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Post by kjs on Oct 28, 2019 14:31:16 GMT -6
Have you considered this? (using a short hand form here – but if you want longer description just let me know) Revelation 1:12 ”Then I turned to see who was talking to me, and when I turned I saw seven gold lamp stands…. 20 The secret meaning of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven gold lamp stands is this: the seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands are the seven churches.”Revelation 4:5 …. There were seven lamps of fire….. In other words; scripture plainly teaches the Lamps represent the churches….. And the chapter 4 (shows the churches in Heaven) surrounding the throne. Seems pretty plain that BEFORE the seals are even broken …. The church is no longer on earth they are around the throne.
Of course that presupposes that “the entire church” will be raptured at once.
That is my take
But there are some who insist there will be multiple raptures (and even though I do not subscribe to that) … based on the two scriptures …. At least part of the church is shown around the throne before the start of anything…..
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Post by bondservant on Oct 28, 2019 15:10:23 GMT -6
Everyone please fasten your seat belts. Keep all objects and hands inside until the ride comes to a complete halt.
Thank you!
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Post by disciple4life on Oct 28, 2019 16:05:21 GMT -6
Have you considered this? (using a short hand form here – but if you want longer description just let me know) Revelation 1:12 ”Then I turned to see who was talking to me, and when I turned I saw seven gold lamp stands…. 20 The secret meaning of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven gold lamp stands is this: the seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands are the seven churches.”Revelation 4:5 …. There were seven lamps of fire….. In other words; scripture plainly teaches the Lamps represent the churches….. And the chapter 4 (shows the churches in Heaven) surrounding the throne. Seems pretty plain that BEFORE the seals are even broken …. The church is no longer on earth they are around the throne.
Of course that presupposes that “the entire church” will be raptured at once.
That is my take
But there are some who insist there will be multiple raptures (and even though I do not subscribe to that) … based on the two scriptures …. At least part of the church is shown around the throne before the start of anything…..
Hello fellow watchers.
kjs, you make a very good point. I have to agree, but what I think is even more compelling, is that the first four chapters are real letters to real churches - this part of Revelation is more epistle than apocalyptic literature. Then, from the end of chapter 4, - the church is absent from the entire book, until the end. Hmmm.
I've heard of multiple resurrections in the Bible, but never ever heard of multiple raptures theory.
The thing is -***I'm not criticizing anyone, and it's not my intention to be divisive, but the thing about the theory of the first 5 seals being opened - there are 4 huge problems with this. 1. No one has been able to show from scripture, or history how the first seal was fulfilled/opened. There is no record of Christ ever being on a white horse. One of the reasons people missed him, was that horses were a symbol of power and wealth, -Kings, soldiers and Centurians , military officers rode horses. Christ came in on a donkey - not the image of a powerful Messiah. 2. All the first five seals are very nebulous- not specific at all. The Sixth seal however is very very specific - so explicitly specific that it's completely obvious that this has not occurred. We have had earthquakes, famine and death, and war since before Noah. 3. Since we have not seen 1/4 of the world's population killed (approximately 1.5 billion people, or about the entire population of Europe.) the only way to make this "opened" or fulfilled is to assume that this is a geographical area, not population - which is a huge stretch. 4. Those who believe that the seals have started are not able to give any trigger, which started or opened the first seal, nor are they able to point clearly to any event that caused the second, or third, or fourth seal to be opened.
What started the dominoes, and when did it occur? If this was Christ, - [which is what most speculate because he is wearing a crown and rides out to conquer] when did he ride a white horse?? no mention of this in scripture. This would mean that the first seal was opened 2000 years ago.
When was the third seal opened? Was it the massive Irish Potato famine, which killed millions or the great famine in India that killed tens of millions?
Maranatha,
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Post by kjs on Oct 28, 2019 18:54:06 GMT -6
Have you considered this? (using a short hand form here – but if you want longer description just let me know) Revelation 1:12 ”Then I turned to see who was talking to me, and when I turned I saw seven gold lamp stands…. 20 The secret meaning of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven gold lamp stands is this: the seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands are the seven churches.”Revelation 4:5 …. There were seven lamps of fire….. In other words; scripture plainly teaches the Lamps represent the churches….. And the chapter 4 (shows the churches in Heaven) surrounding the throne. Seems pretty plain that BEFORE the seals are even broken …. The church is no longer on earth they are around the throne.
Of course that presupposes that “the entire church” will be raptured at once.
That is my take
But there are some who insist there will be multiple raptures (and even though I do not subscribe to that) … based on the two scriptures …. At least part of the church is shown around the throne before the start of anything…..
Hello fellow watchers.
kjs , you make a very good point. I have to agree, but what I think is even more compelling, is that the first four chapters are real letters to real churches - this part of Revelation is more epistle than apocalyptic literature. Then, from the end of chapter 4, - the church is absent from the entire book, until the end. Hmmm.
I've heard of multiple resurrections in the Bible, but never ever heard of multiple raptures theory.
The thing is -***I'm not criticizing anyone, and it's not my intention to be divisive, but the thing about the theory of the first 5 seals being opened - there are 4 huge problems with this. 1. No one has been able to show from scripture, or history how the first seal was fulfilled/opened. There is no record of Christ ever being on a white horse. One of the reasons people missed him, was that horses were a symbol of power and wealth, -Kings, soldiers and Centurians , military officers rode horses. Christ came in on a donkey - not the image of a powerful Messiah. 2. All the first five seals are very nebulous- not specific at all. The Sixth seal however is very very specific - so explicitly specific that it's completely obvious that this has not occurred. We have had earthquakes, famine and death, and war since before Noah. 3. Since we have not seen 1/4 of the world's population killed (approximately 1.5 billion people, or about the entire population of Europe.) the only way to make this "opened" or fulfilled is to assume that this is a geographical area, not population - which is a huge stretch. 4. Those who believe that the seals have started are not able to give any trigger, which started or opened the first seal, nor are they able to point clearly to any event that caused the second, or third, or fourth seal to be opened.
What started the dominoes, and when did it occur? If this was Christ, - [which is what most speculate because he is wearing a crown and rides out to conquer] when did he ride a white horse?? no mention of this in scripture. This would mean that the first seal was opened 2000 years ago.
When was the third seal opened? Was it the massive Irish Potato famine, which killed millions or the great famine in India that killed tens of millions?
Maranatha,
Just to add to just a bit of your comment ... There is no record of Christ ever being on a white horse. (or the first seal)
Umm does everyone remember who is opening (breaking) the SEALS? That would of course be "The Lamb of God" ---or Jesus Christ.....
SO -- I believe it is illogical -- to try to conceive that the Opener of the Seal -- is also a participant in the open seal....
Add to that quandary .... the Angel commands the white horseman to COME Forth .... do you really expect an angel (even a powerful one) will give orders to Jesus Christ?
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Oct 28, 2019 20:55:01 GMT -6
kjs , disciple4life , I think I can safely say you trust me enough to call me a sister. and you know the love I have for you as in this church forum I have come to know you two as brothers.
“These are those whom the LORD has sent to patrol the earth.” Zech 1. I have never had anyone give me a clear answer here in re to Rev's equestrians. The horsemen in zech are sent out to patrol the earth. The horsemen of the Seals to me are statements or assessments. That is what is being pressed upon my heart. No tribulations but facts concerning the riders who I see as being sent out. Also this from the last ch of Matt account when Jesus was showing up after His resurrection from the Dead: 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth
Now, what about this?
9And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.and this: “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
and this: 7When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” 8I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
so a couple things here: Jesus we know has ultimate authority. Why, and no one answers me ever, WHY does Jesus "delay" the seals when He even says to those in the day, that He has the Authority? And, too, no one has ever given me a real answer that I am satisfied that the white horse patrolman is none other than the Holy Spirit. I say this because it seems to me that we are to over come/conquer THRU the blood of the Lamb/Jesus. So many of you all confuse me when the horsemen are some form of tribulation. Don't see it. Have not been able to see them as a Big T event now for 2 years. then this: Did not Jesus send His followers out kinda right away? (Acyts 1/2) How is this not at all part of the book of Revelation? Where is the church of Thes in the 7 churches? or the church of Corinth or any of the churches that Paul wrote his letters to, if the 7 church letters are to literal existing churches in the day? And, if the jews are blinded, why is the word synagogue mentioned to some of the churches? And one last thing: How can anyone say the church is absent after ch 4 when all I see is evidence of the Lord and His church going about the business of the Testimony of the Christ to the World (aka, book of revelation of jesus Christ). ? Is no the book about the revealing of Jesus? Does He all of a sudden take away His disciples and MAJICALLY make it known? This does not at all follow the pattern of His First Coming. I am under the impression that nothing new under the Son (pun) and so the patterns we are shown about Faith/lack of faith/heardened heart etc, what it means to be chosen are patterns set before us that we can see, INCLUDING the feast Clocks. The Feast Clocks combined with th parables of His Kingdom do not lend to the Faithful being absent, but rather being full throttle. Maranatha!. here is also something I find intriguing in regard to the entire Bible compilation and purpose. The road to Emmaus. Resurrected Lord Jesus says this: 25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
This is what I see is the whole point of the Bible: the story of Jesus and His redemption of man. If He is in ALL the scriptures, then how is His Body not part of the whole process in the End of Times? This fits the patterns that for sure seem to be shown/demonstrated for His First Coming. He did not HIDE His followers, He SENT THEM OUT! to make followers of Him. Shepherd and Tend them. Operate in the Hope and Promise which is Faith in it. Don't see a different set of rules after ch 4 in the vision of the Revealing of the Truth to the world.
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Post by uscgvet on Oct 29, 2019 10:20:14 GMT -6
neural , I am assuming from your original post that your theory is: "Are we there yet?" - you are arguing yes, the 7 year trib has begun. Reason it has begun is: The 2017 September 23rd alignment was the beginning of the 7 year tribulation (the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel's vision from the angel Gabriel). Now you are asking us to logically disprove, without using scriptures that are contested with various interpretations, that this theory is false... Since the entire Bible is constantly contested, every single jot and tiddle, your logically asking for the impossible. We have to be able to utilize the Bible to disprove the theory. I'll ignore your illogical request and I'll take a stab with, what I think, are slightly less contested verses: Since Daniel is given the vision of the 70th week by the angel Gabriel, let's stick with Daniel, for now, to disprove your theory. "...as in the days of Noah..." is also described by an end times dream Nebuchadnezzar had in Daniel chapter 2. Go read Daniel 2 for refresher. Daniel tells 'ole Nebbie boy that his dream is " what shall be in the latter days" in verse 28. So we know it's end times (...as in the days of Noah... as Jesus described the end times would be). Now let's skip down to the feet and toes of the image in verse 42. Daniel 2 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Verse 44 is obviously Christ setting up his Kingdom forever. The last kingdom of iron mixed with clay feet and toes includes this strange verse... " they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men". What on earth could that mean? As opposed to NOT mingle themselves with the seed of men... Who or What are these things? Did these things exist in the Days of Noah? Is what was destroyed in the Days of Noah here today? In 2017?
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Post by kjs on Oct 29, 2019 15:16:11 GMT -6
kjs , disciple4life , I think I can safely say you trust me enough to call me a sister. and you know the love I have for you as in this church forum I have come to know you two as brothers.
“These are those whom the LORD has sent to patrol the earth.” Zech 1. I have never had anyone give me a clear answer here in re to Rev's equestrians. The horsemen in zech are sent out to patrol the earth. The horsemen of the Seals to me are statements or assessments. That is what is being pressed upon my heart. No tribulations but facts concerning the riders who I see as being sent out. Also this from the last ch of Matt account when Jesus was showing up after His resurrection from the Dead: 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth
Now, what about this?
9And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.and this: “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
and this: 7When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” 8I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
so a couple things here: Jesus we know has ultimate authority. Why, and no one answers me ever, WHY does Jesus "delay" the seals when He even says to those in the day, that He has the Authority? And, too, no one has ever given me a real answer that I am satisfied that the white horse patrolman is none other than the Holy Spirit. I say this because it seems to me that we are to over come/conquer THRU the blood of the Lamb/Jesus. So many of you all confuse me when the horsemen are some form of tribulation. Don't see it. Have not been able to see them as a Big T event now for 2 years. then this: Did not Jesus send His followers out kinda right away? (Acyts 1/2) How is this not at all part of the book of Revelation? Where is the church of Thes in the 7 churches? or the church of Corinth or any of the churches that Paul wrote his letters to, if the 7 church letters are to literal existing churches in the day? And, if the jews are blinded, why is the word synagogue mentioned to some of the churches? And one last thing: How can anyone say the church is absent after ch 4 when all I see is evidence of the Lord and His church going about the business of the Testimony of the Christ to the World (aka, book of revelation of jesus Christ). ? Is no the book about the revealing of Jesus? Does He all of a sudden take away His disciples and MAJICALLY make it known? This does not at all follow the pattern of His First Coming. I am under the impression that nothing new under the Son (pun) and so the patterns we are shown about Faith/lack of faith/heardened heart etc, what it means to be chosen are patterns set before us that we can see, INCLUDING the feast Clocks. The Feast Clocks combined with th parables of His Kingdom do not lend to the Faithful being absent, but rather being full throttle. Maranatha!. here is also something I find intriguing in regard to the entire Bible compilation and purpose. The road to Emmaus. Resurrected Lord Jesus says this: 25And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26“Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
This is what I see is the whole point of the Bible: the story of Jesus and His redemption of man. If He is in ALL the scriptures, then how is His Body not part of the whole process in the End of Times? This fits the patterns that for sure seem to be shown/demonstrated for His First Coming. He did not HIDE His followers, He SENT THEM OUT! to make followers of Him. Shepherd and Tend them. Operate in the Hope and Promise which is Faith in it. Don't see a different set of rules after ch 4 in the vision of the Revealing of the Truth to the world. Sister barbiosheepgirl , I have nothing against you ... While I disagree with you .... I am not saying I am correct and you are incorrect.... just seeing things differently.....
You state "Why, and no one answers me ever, WHY does Jesus "delay" the seals when He even says to those in the day, that He has the Authority? "
I am not a Biblical scholar enough to explain away the "delay" ... I suspect many of us (all of Us) will one day - Slap our forehead and go Of course that was the reason..... but as of right now, right here -- no clue!
As I stated earlier -- we do know with 100% certainty that Jesus (Lamb of God) opens / unseals the scroll mention in Revelation 4 .... we are 100% certain because it clearly tells us!
Many dispensationalist (ie Hunt, Missler, Martin ....) all come down on the side of church out of here in Chapter 4 and then tribulation starts shortly after rapture and mid-way through tribulation the GREAT Tribulation starts -- remember the Great T is only 3.5 years -- I tend to agree with them -- since nothing I have seen convinces me otherwise.
Did not Jesus send His followers out kinda right away?
No actually they were instructed to wait 50 days or so .... and then to go ONLY to the House of Israel..... Paul was the first to go to Gentiles. (Yes, except for Peter with Cornelius in Acts 10 - 11) -- who had a one time only encounter with a gentile.
As Far as the "LIST" of Churches -- and the whys -- some show up and some do not -- varies among scholars almost as much as some disagreements here... Short version ... everyone has a pet theory of the why. I lean toward the theory the listed churches were Jewish churches ONLY -- why that was so I could not say.....
Secondly, the "list of churches" as Missler was fond of saying .... If they would have been in any other order .... the church age theory would not pan out.... but because of their order it validates the church age theory. why is the word synagogue mentioned
Because they were primarily Jewish -- I personally hold to the belief the book was written under Nero -- so came out in the 60 to 70 time range ... The reason for that belief is there is no mention of the Temple destruction which happen in 70AD..... I would imagine something that big of news -- would have at least got mentioned ..........
========== Will end it here -- cause my beliefs and yours are clashing too much .... and the short answer to ALL of Your above queries -- is there is rare 100% agreement with actual scholars -- so unsurprising no agreement here.....
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