Voices, Thunderings, Lightnings, Earthquake and Great Hail

****hands yardstick a tissue for his nosebleed****

Don’t get down just yet and I hope there is room for two on that box of yours. You say:

“Is being right a good work? Is that what being a servant of God is all about? It's no wonder the world hates us. We give them the excuse!”

I agree with your statement above but maybe at a different angle or reason. We for sure give them more than enough of an excuse. For starters I don’t think Barbio is trying to be right or prove anyone or particular translations or translators as wrong. What I gather from hers and the entirety of this thread for that matter is to get people, anyone, to think outside of the box. To instead of solely relying on mans interpretation, seek the Holy Spirit or at least give it a try! Not saying anyone isn’t doing that. It’s encouragement, not belittling or I am right and you wrong. It’s looking at all the angles and climbing out of the rigid doctrinal walls and ways. There is nothing wrong with questioning things or teachings. Even “sound” ones. The Pharisees and similar where the knowledgeable ones, the educated and wise ones. The bit on Hermès is fascinating in regards to hermeneutics. Very good info stormyknight Never took to that sort of way to understanding Gods word. Seemed to make it very 2D instead of multidimensional like it really is. Makes reading the Bible for me at least and my busy mind, rather dull and boring.

This is my opinion and a lot of it has been formed from experience and situations I have been in, so please take what I am about to say as coming across in a humble manner. It may ruffle feathers, but so be it.

People hate us because Jesus said they would. People hate us because we have taken Gods gracious gift of salvation and made it a marker of sorts or as a way of creating divisions between unbelievers and believers. People hate us because we have over 40,000 denominations and cannot explain why. People hate us because we have taken the gospel and turned it into a tragedy, a do or die or worse scenario. People hate us because we teach God is love but acts like Molech or is petty and will someday commit mass genocide out of anger (pretty sure that is being unable to forgive and the entire opposite of the gospel!). People hate us because we elevate our sin as less than theirs because they are unbelievers and we are not. People hate us because we refuse to make a cake top due to our “beliefs” and like it is an offense to God if we do! Not realizing God has already forgiven those for wanting the homosexual cake topper and for the ones refusing to make it. Wrap your head around that. People hate us because we hold up signs saying burn in Hell you abortion murderers or Gossip and say God can probably barely forgive trannies. Shame on us. People hate us because some of us tell them God has predestined some to eternal destruction or torment and others to eternal life. That is showing favoritism and I don’t care how anyone tries to twist that one around, that’s what is being stated! How in the WORLD is that any different than abortion!?! Abortion is choosing who does and does not live, with the ones life that is on the line not having any say or control in it. People hate us because in the past the church committed some of the most horrendous mass murders in all time in the name of Christ.

People hate us because we hate the good and we hate sharing the true good! We always have. We share what we think is the good, but its only a fraction of the good or a twisted version of the good. The religious leaders 2000 years ago stared the Good in the face and hated him. It is NO different now.

When most (not all) share the gospel or go out to “save” souls we tell people Jesus will forgive or has, but only if you believe... or if you do your best to stop sinning and be a good person or to repent or go to hell!! I am sorry, but that is not good news! That is an ultimatum and a form of blackmail! There is a man in New Orleans who has a YouTube channel and he walks around with a sign everyday around the city that says believe and repent or burn! That’s not the good news of salvation, that’s horrifying and grotesque. Could you imagine what would happen if we went around simply telling people God lives you and sent his son to save you and He forgives our sin! And just let that sink in for a moment instead of going on about the horrors of hell or going on about us being in charge of our salvation and the dire consequences that will happen if we make the wrong choice and unfortunately has possibly happened to all your unbelieving friends and family... God knows we are terrible decision makers and we are always going to eat that fruit even though He told us not too! But since the foundation of creation the lamb was slain because he saw that we needed it before we ever even opened our eyes! That’s good news, that’s something to shout from the rooftops!

God will and is fixing His creation, all of it , and one day He will be all in all and there is no choice or free will that will thwart or hinder that from being accomplished. Every knee will bow and every tongue will praise and worship Jesus as king of kings and Lord of Lords and as savior of all.

Now before anyone thinks who does this chick think she is or what does she know that we don’t or has been enlightened on, please please understand what I state above is coming from a very broken and battered soul who has been through and done much in their meager 30 something years of life and has done things that are frankly utterly vile and pure evil. If God can show me grace and love after all that I have done, after cursing and absolutely rejecting Him, He can, will and does do it for anyone. He will never stop perusing us and drawing us to Him no matter what we do.

He is faithful when we are faithless.

Jul 19, 2019 15:13:34 GMT -6 venge said:
I am surprised that many don't here haven't replied to this subject.




To answer your very first post, venge, IMHO, the first scenario in Rev. 4, John is witnessing the throne room of heaven. No earthquake because he's not on Earth. The second event, in Rev. 8, happens on the Earth, so consequently, an earthquake. The third event is more speculative on my part, but I see it as people on the Earth witnessing the opening of Heaven and seeing the ark of the covenant, which I would think would be rather "Earthshaking".
So, three different events, but very similar things happening. This is John's interpretation, no? In the presence of God's throne, in all His glory and majesty, to little ole John, it's gonna be loud and bright and fantastic. What ever happens in chapter 8, whether it's an asteroid or a comet or a real censor filled with incense crashing to the Earth, static electricity is going to cause some amazing lightning as it passes through the atmosphere, as well as thunder, and then an earthquake when it reaches the ground. And then the third scenario, is what is seen only going to be seen* from our perspective? or is God's Temple bigger than the universe? meaning, will there also be moonquakes and marsquakes and jupiterquakes, etc.

"But in those days, after that tribulation: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.…" Mark 13:24-26



*this is purely imagining if one were standing on the moon or mars or jupiter to be able to see such an event.

Sorry all mike, barbiosheepgirl, yardstick etc..
Been busy last 2 days and haven’t checked this.

barbiosheepgirl
Said: And I am saying that we must not forget that John is in the SPIRIT when he was shown these things about Jesus. The point of view from a heavenly dimension outward to earth (from one dimension to another) is not necessarily an EXACT copy of the word used to describe it. This, I believe is the point of venge's thread.

And she understands what I am saying. The way I see the Bible is not linear, not an old book with old ideas but very advanced. Beyond our current understanding even today. There are the basics but there is also so much more. Do not think that I am not careful to look at a word and to understand it’s meaning in multiple sources? But how I arrive at the word is through the spirit. It pulls me to it. This doesn’t mean I’m right, it is as if it’s bread crumbs and I’m looking at it to try to interpret it hence why I spoke about this subject.

In regards to seismos for earthquake or another word. They are both quakes in the earth which cause fear. It’s important to look at other words that have relation with the story that word was used to understand context.

What does lightning do? It’s bright, it illuminates the darkness, it’s quick in speed.
What does hail do? It can destroy vines, fruit, trees, branches. You see this as literal but the spirit shows me what Christ spoke all along. Men, women... they are these things too are they not? Revelation is spiritual and in such I look at it how I believe John saw it, in the spirit.

Understanding this allows some here to look at this from 2 sides. You know the literal, but do you know the other? Are you certain you have it right? If it doesn’t come the way you thought...you wouldn’t know it.

What do earthquakes do? They swallow up things, they break apart earth, they cause trembling and fear of uncertainty and these things apply to people being in fear and trembling, nations being broken apart and others swallowed up that has a very surreal end times feel to it.

As far as my background and what I am versed in has no bearing on the Holy Ghost. Men throughout time that had no ability to write, speak or preach became some of the best prophets.

There is a difference when we distort God’s word from truth - but I am not doing that nor am I adding another gospel. This is strictly understanding what John saw. He saw an earthquake in the spirit. The word written down for us was Seismos. Does seismos as a literal earthquake fit in with any of the Trumpets when none is listed? It does fit in 100% when the quake it seen as what an earthquake does and the word used describes what he saw happen to nations, peoples, tribes etc in the vision.

In regards to Rev 12 sign...I’d prefer we don’t talk about it on this thread. I understand most of you believe it, I do not. The HS has not lead me to believe it, I don’t see apostles believing it, and I’ve never heard any Church preach on it. Only on this site and random internet sites. In Matt 24, Christ said when you see all these things, know it is at the door - our salvation. The only link to the sun/moon was the 6th seal. Not The Lion, Hydra and whatever else. The stars falling is a sign, the downfall of man’s spirit is a sign, the falling away is a sign, the man of sin is a sign, Babylon is a sign and wealth/greed is a sign.
Even the mark of the beast is a sign we are given. Christ must remove from his kingdom all iniquity, as that iniquity grows, till he comes, it is what I look for to stay awake and not to sleep.. right here on earth. Your sign happened in 2017 and those that follow it have no idea when the rapture comes or doomsday from your sign. It’s all a guess. Christ will rebuke this generation as he did his own. We can tell time, weather, and many mysteries yet we can’t tell when we sin, those in darkness.

Let us remove from this and focus on the main subject

mike ,
lets have the whole context for the audience




The mountain is define right there: the high mountain here seems to consist of "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory" . 

There is much going on here than just a tempting by the devil. Thanks mike because this just added a big piece of a puzzle regarding Rev 12 for me...  I love how the Lord works!!!!!!

there are some things I did not highlight in blue but used bold and underline in the black font as there is something here that is tugging at me epiphany strings, but cant put my finger on it yet...