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Post by stormyknight on Jul 11, 2019 6:02:31 GMT -6
Since I could not find a pertinent thread, I thought I'd start this one. Not ground breaking or Earth shaking, but something that hit me and I thought I would share. I don't care where this thread goes, but it is aimed at the mechanics of being in the Spirit.
Something you said in another thread, mike, hit me, so I thought I would delve into it a bit. I invite all to share their thoughts on it.
Why should we assume those currently blind to truth will simply realize the spiritual transformation of those around, dead rising, Jesus in the clouds, Angels, Trumpets, etc. All of it is in the spirit. Being changed and with the Lord forever does not specially mean we just vanish. We are changed.
I think you are right, Mike. The general population of non-believers will not realize the transformation..at first. Probably most not at all. There was some studying going all awhile back in Isaiah pertaining to the Church being born. If I'm not mistaken, the picture painted was of Israel, the mother, in labor, but giving birth to wind.
"we were pregnant, we writhed, but we have given birth to wind. We have accomplished no deliverance in the earth, and the inhabitants of the world have not fallen." Isa. 26:18
Jesus, when talking to Nicodemus, compared those who are born of the Spirit as being like the wind in John 3:8. You can hear it, but you can't see it.
"Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw tongues like flames of a fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.…" Acts 2:2-4
I know this is nothing profound, but I've always wondered what it will be like being in the Spirit. We know that by God's will, the messengers of God were able to manifest themselves so that they could be seen, Luke 1:26-38, Luke 1:11, Gen. 32:1, and so the same would apply to us after we are changed and more so even.
"Are not the angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" Heb. 1:14
I perceive that on the day we are changed to imperishable, there will be a mighty wind blowing to those non-believers, but that's it. They won't see lights ascending to the sky. Whether they hear the trumpet or not, I don't know. But it will be puzzling to most for sure.
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Post by venge on Jul 11, 2019 6:59:35 GMT -6
You know, it’s possible that only God’s people will hear it as they heard it when the mountain was on fire and were terrified. But we don’t know. We do know that those who are awake will be aware rather then those who sleep will continue in marrying, eating and drinking and going on with their lives as if nothing has changed. They won’t see and they won’t hear.
I should add, we are made priests and kings on earth, not heaven. Why would we leave? Christ comes to reign and when changed, we are with him wherever he goes
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Post by fitz on Jul 11, 2019 7:10:14 GMT -6
We leave because He went to prepare a place for us, that where He is, we may be also. So this place He has been preparing, it is where He is, and we will be with Him there.
Where did He go? Where is He?
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Post by mike on Jul 11, 2019 7:25:31 GMT -6
When Jesus Rose from the dead, did everyone recognize Him? Did He eat, yet walk through walls?
When He comes for us, whether, pre, mid, post, whichever view you may currently hold, we will see Him and be like Him in the air and remain with Him always.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord
1John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
Look at this world around us. It is clear to those unblinded that we are in the time of the end, right now, today. Which day He appears we do not know yet, but we see that the Son of Man will come as in the days of Noah & Lot. We are there
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Post by mike on Jul 11, 2019 7:45:19 GMT -6
We leave because He went to prepare a place for us, that where He is, we may be also. So this place He has been preparing, it is where He is, and we will be with Him there. Where did He go? Where is He? Fitz, I once held very tightly to a pre-trib rapture. Now I'm not so sure about the timing of the catching up to the air. I once thought Jesus was swinging His hammer building each of us mansions in heaven. Again I am not so sure about that any longer. Where do you think He went and is right now today? |
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Post by stormyknight on Jul 11, 2019 8:32:05 GMT -6
We leave because He went to prepare a place for us, that where He is, we may be also. So this place He has been preparing, it is where He is, and we will be with Him there. Where did He go? Where is He? Fitz, I once held very tightly to a pre-trib rapture. Now I'm not so sure about the timing of the catching up to the air. I once thought Jesus was swinging His hammer building each of us mansions in heaven. Again I am not so sure about that any longer. Where do you think He went and is right now today?Very good question!!
"The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who ministers in the sanctuary and true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.…" Heb. 8:1-2
"Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God— and He is interceding for us." Rom. 8:34
"through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him. " 1 Pet. 3:21-22
"God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses. 33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." Acts 2:32-33
And from Jesus Christ Himself!
"“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Mk 14:62
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Post by stormyknight on Jul 11, 2019 8:42:06 GMT -6
We know from scripture that a lot of messages came via dreams and visions. Where are you when you dream? I submit that you are in the spirit, the spirit that is in Man. We also know that the "Spirit of the Lord moved over the face of the waters..." Gen 1:2 That doesn't necessarily mean God was there only. We know God can be anywhere and everywhere. So what I'm saying is that while Jesus sits at the right hand of the Majesty of Heaven, He is still preparing a place for us...by His Spirit! I think this verse demonstrates that power very well.
"“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Mk 14:62
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Post by venge on Jul 11, 2019 9:48:23 GMT -6
We leave because He went to prepare a place for us, that where He is, we may be also. So this place He has been preparing, it is where He is, and we will be with Him there. Where did He go? Where is He? Where did he leave? Heaven Where did he go? Earth Where will he be? Reigning on earth with his saints. So we will be on earth and the place he goes to prepare for us is a new earth and a new Jerusalem. Not a physical house in heaven. |
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Post by stormyknight on Jul 11, 2019 13:39:16 GMT -6
So here is how I see the mechanics of this. God the Father, Yahweh, is, of course, omnipresent. He is everywhere. In the beginning the Logos, the Word, was with God and the Word was God. When Moses encountered the burning bush, it was an angel of the Lord(some say Yahweh, others say Jehovah) that appeared to him, but it was Jehovah Elohim, the Logos, the Word, that spoke to him. So Jehovah Elohim spoke through an angel. We know that no human can withstand the full glory of God, hence sending an angel. Fast forward to 2-3BC when another(or maybe the same one, Gabriel?) visited Mary, Joseph's wife, and said to her, "‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;" Luke 1:35 The holy-begotten thing was the Logos, the Word, Jehovah Elohim, made flesh. So now, God the Father, Yahweh Elohim, is still everywhere, but Jehovah Elohim, Jesus Christ, is now on Earth with us for thirty-some years. He then ascended to the right had of God the Father. Where is He? Everywhere. His location is not pinpointed. Heaven is not physical so it is not in this place or that place, it just IS. So when Jesus comes in a cloud, He will still be at the right hand of the throne of power AND here on Earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And we will be like Him! |
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Post by fitz on Jul 11, 2019 14:29:46 GMT -6
We leave because He went to prepare a place for us, that where He is, we may be also. So this place He has been preparing, it is where He is, and we will be with Him there. Where did He go? Where is He? Fitz, I once held very tightly to a pre-trib rapture. Now I'm not so sure about the timing of the catching up to the air. I once thought Jesus was swinging His hammer building each of us mansions in heaven. Again I am not so sure about that any longer. Where do you think He went and is right now today? I'm glad you asked.  Acts 2:32-35 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ And so we see He is seated at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for us. And where then is the Father? Jesus tells us many times, He is in heaven: Matthew 6:1 6 “Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Matthew 6:9 9 “Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. So the Father is in heaven, and the son is now seated at His right hand. Therefore heaven is where Jesus is preparing "rooms" for us. Heaven is where He will take us, pre-trib. I know its simplistic, but it's all exactly what Jesus said. Only childlike faith can grasp it. |
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Post by mike on Jul 11, 2019 14:45:55 GMT -6
Fitz My point is we that we may 'think' heaven is up or out (away from earth) because Jesus Rose and ascended into the clouds and yes is seated at the Right hand of the Father (how awesome that is just thinking about it). What we don't truly understand or grasp is where is Heaven. I don't believe it is only up, away from the Earth but everywhere at all times. It is the spirit world (as stormyknight says above). So at the rapture we are changed to our immortal bodies. I expect our bodies to be like His was, both somewhat physical yet spiritual at the same time |
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Post by fitz on Jul 11, 2019 15:24:39 GMT -6
We don't disagree Mike. I think it has to be a dimensional thing.
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Post by venge on Jul 11, 2019 15:28:02 GMT -6
fitz , You said: Is there supporting scripture to say specifically -- "we are taken to heaven pre trib"?
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Post by fitz on Jul 11, 2019 15:30:38 GMT -6
We leave because He went to prepare a place for us, that where He is, we may be also. So this place He has been preparing, it is where He is, and we will be with Him there. Where did He go? Where is He? Where did he leave? Heaven Where did he go? Earth Where will he be? Reigning on earth with his saints. So we will be on earth and the place he goes to prepare for us is a new earth and a new Jerusalem. Not a physical house in heaven. You describe His first coming and Millennial reign, yes. But now He is in heaven, and we will be with Him there until His second coming. Yes, not a physical house, but Jesus calls it a "place", and it's where He is. Yes on New Jerusalem. |
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Post by fitz on Jul 11, 2019 15:37:27 GMT -6
fitz , You said: Is there supporting scripture to say specifically -- "we are taken to heaven pre trib"? I already gave it to you. It's all quite simple. Jesus says the Father is in Heaven (dozens of times, I surmise). Jesus said He was going back to Father to prepare a place for us (there) and then He will come to take us to where He is (there). How can you miss it? |
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