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Post by venge on Jul 3, 2019 10:49:35 GMT -6
Nope, can’t go with that logic.
The 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th head was not Alexander and his 4 generals making the 7th Rome because Rome was identified by John as the one that “is” and 5 are fallen. Rome cannot be your 7th when it’s the 6th and the 4 heads that come up after the 3rd are still of the 3rd. And are from that kingdom. Their split explains the last part of the statue, not their progression in the 8 heads.
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Post by douwant2go2heaven on Jul 3, 2019 11:46:46 GMT -6
Blessings venge. It's not "logic" that is needed but wisdom according to God. Therefore let God be true and all men liars. Amen.
The wisdom of God comes from the word of God. Therefore wisdom tells us what the 7 heads are. The 7 heads are identified in the book of Daniel which goes hand in hand with the book of Revelation. Amen.
The 8 kings are something totally different than the 7 heads. See here:
10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17:10-11
The 5 kings that had fallen when John wrote the book of Revelation in 90AD are identified in the book of Daniel.
"21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power." Daniel 8:21-22
1st King = Alexander the Great
2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th king = The 4 generals who took over the Grecian Empire after Alexander the great died.
Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptoelmy, and Seleucus were the names of the 4 generals.
Those were the 5 kings who had fallen when John wrote the book of Revelation in 90 AD
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen...." Revelation 17:10
The one who is, which would be the 6th king, was the king alive at the time John wrote the book of Revelation which would be Caesar. Rome took over the Grecian Empire and western civilization continued to spread to the 4 corners of the world, hence why the 3rd beast kingdom (the leopard kingdom) had 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl.
The key to understanding the prophecy is knowing that the 3rd beast kingdom is still ruling today, which has it's headquarters in Babylon the Great. This is proven by:
A. By studying the whole context of Daniel 8:21-23 which identifies the 5 kings who had fallen. The Bible says this:
"21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people."
God says in verse 22 that in the "latter time of their kingdom", speaking in reference to the Leopard kingdom which has 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl, that at the end of it the transgressors will have come to a full and then the king of fierce countenance will stand up. That fierce king is the Antichrist, which is the 8th king spoken about in Revelation 17:11
B. We also understand that the 3rd beast kingdom is ruling today because the prophecy in Revelation 17 is about Babylon the Great which is destroyed while the 7th king is in power.
God said that the 7th king didn't come yet in Johns day.
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:10
The 7th king, who only continues for a short space, is in charge of Babylon the Great at the time when the "transgressors are come to the full" at the end of the reign of the 3rd beast kingdom.
Revelation 17 speaks about how Babylon the Great is destroyed and then the 4th beast kingdom takes over the world and rules with the 10 kings and the beast for one hour, which is the 7 year tribulation.
Therefore to sum things up:
1. The 4th beast kingdom with the 10 horns is not ruling at this moment
2. The 4th beast kingdom with the 10 horns only comes to power AFTER Babylon the Great is destroyed.
3. Babylon the Great rules the world at the time of the 7th king and when the transgressors have come to the full.
4. Babylon the Great is the final form of the 3rd beast leopard kingdom that has 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl.
5. The 8 kings of Revelation 17 are all connected to the 3rd beast kingdom.
6. The 5 who fell when John wrote the book of Revelation were Alexander the great and his 4 generals.
7. The one "who is" at the time John wrote the book of Revelation was Caesar.
8. The 7th king who hadn't come yet when John wrote the book of Revelation, but when he comes, he will only continue for a short space is the king who will be in charge of Babylon the Great when she is destroyed by the 10 kings.
9. After Babylon the Great is destroyed, the 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns and the Antichrist will take over the world and rule it for "one hour" which is the 7 year tribulation.
10. Amen.
Another thing to understand is that Rome is an extension of the Grecian empire. A simple study of Daniel 8:21-23 reveals this truth. We have to let the Bible speak for itself. Look again:
"21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up."
The Grecian empire is still in control right before the fierce king takes over. STUDY VERSE 23!
The Grecian empire spread to the 4 corners of the world (western influence has spread to the 4 corners of the world)
The Grecian empire has it's final base located in Babylon the Great, the summationl of all "western ideals and values"
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who Babylon the Great is. Amen.
Now the only questions that remain are:
1. Who is the mystery that Babylon the Great is?
2. Who is the 7th king?
3. When will Babylon the Great be destroyed?
This is all bible study and taught by God Himself through wisdom. Not logic or speculation. I've done plenty of videos about this if anyone is interested. God bless you! The King is coming! Amen!
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Post by mike on Jul 3, 2019 12:58:24 GMT -6
Another viewpoint on the topic for those interested.
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Post by stormyknight on Jul 3, 2019 19:47:36 GMT -6
This is an interesting POV, mike. It wouldn't hurt to put in some time studying the subsequent dreams and the parallels in Revelation with the Islamic Caliphate in mind instead of Rome and see how things play out. If you think about it, maybe the Dome of the Rock being on the Temple Mount was the AoD all this time and we're just waiting for the Man of Lawlessness, the Son of destruction to take his seat.
on another note... I find it interesting to identify the principalities and powers of the air
I did some looking at the word used for destruction: apóleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi). Notice that last word! Apollymi is from the same root as Apollyon "the destroyer" the angel of the abyss.
"They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon" Rev. 9:11 The Man of Lawlessness could literally be the son of Apollyon, the destroyer.
Lucifer = helel ben sahar - the shining one, son of the Dawn Isa. 14:12 Satan = Has-Satan - The Adversary Job 2:1 also Satanas(adversary) Matt. 16:23
Satan = also Has-Satan The accuser Zech. 3:1 and diabolos(accuser) Luke 4:2
Apollyon = The destroyer Rev. 9:11
Micheal = the Prince of thy People(Israel) Dan. 12:1
Gabriel = the Messenger of God Luke 1:19
There is also: The Prince of Persia Daniel 10:20
The Prince of Greece Daniel 10:20
I am humble by this verse in Eph. 3:10-11 " His purpose was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to the eternal purpose that He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.…"
My post probably should be in another thread, but I do this all the time. I look at things posted and the path just takes me off to new discoveries or old ones with new insight. It took me three hours to write this up. I hope you all don't mind my meanderings. But just going through this post, I discern that by our existence and subsequent rapture, changing to imperishable, the 'why' of what God is doing, will finally be understood by them. It is obvious that some are not going to like it, but they will understand it.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 3, 2019 20:13:16 GMT -6
stormyknight sounds like a Holy Spirit situation in your life, brother! Praise be to The Lord!
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Post by venge on Jul 4, 2019 5:03:49 GMT -6
Doyouwant
The verse says:
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come
If the heads are of the beast and the women rides it, the answer given above does not match your interpretation.
7 heads of the beast are 7 kingdoms/nations
The 7 kings rule the 7 kingdoms/nations and are linked with the heads.
As for the first 2 heads, Isaiah 10:24
24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
The first 2 to lift the rod against Israel was Egypt, then Assyria. Babylon was third but the first part of the statue. Media-Persia was the 4th head that took up the rod but the second on Daniels statue.
Greece is the 5th head that split but was not conquered. Also the third part of the statue. And Rome was 6th and like Egypt and Assyria, absent from the statue. This is the same for the 7th. The reason is that the last part of the statue was thought slain before Rome but will come back making it not the 6th or 7th but an 8th. It is a hybrid of kingdoms encompassing the 1st, 2nd and 3rd part of the statue.
Placing the Grecian split into 4 and not recognizing they are still Grecian but as you believe, 4 separate heads of the beast causes conflicts and does not match up with the logical wording of scripture.
Or that in the later reign of their kingdoms...there’s a hint...
Or the others that fell had their dominion taken away but were aloud to live...there’s another hint...
Egyptian rule lost power but we still have Egypt
Assyria power fell but we still have Syria
Babylon fell but we still have Iraq
Persian fell but we still have Iran
Roman fell but we still have Rome
Grecian fell but Greece is still here.
Antiochus kingdom doesn’t live
Neither does the Ptolemaic one
And to add what you wrote:
22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23And in the latter time of their kingdom,
Notice 4 kingdoms out of one nation/kingdom of Greece. And “of their kingdom” in the singular. 4 generals stood up from the Grecian head and split, but they were all Formally Grecian! They did not conquer it but split it. They may have split the power amongst themselves but the fact remains they still stood out of 1 nation
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Post by douwant2go2heaven on Jul 4, 2019 8:24:57 GMT -6
Blessings Venge. You said this :
"Placing the Grecian split into 4 and not recognizing they are still Grecian but as you believe, 4 separate heads of the beast causes conflicts and does not match up with the logical wording of scripture."
Not once did I say that the leopard kingdom wasn't still grecian. This is what I said in my last post:
"The Grecian empire is still in control right before the fierce king takes over. STUDY VERSE 23!
The Grecian empire spread to the 4 corners of the world (western influence has spread to the 4 corners of the world)
The Grecian empire has it's final base located in Babylon the Great, the summation of all "western ideals and values"
So I don't know if there is miscommunication going on because I don't see how you came to that conclusion if you read what I said.
So let's try this again. Amen.
"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it." Daniel 7:6
1. The bible says that the leopard kingdom has 4 heads, not me.
2. The bible says that the leopard kingdom has 4 wings, not me.
The reason why the leopard kingdom has 4 heads is given to us in the scriptures.
"21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power." Daniel 8:21-22
The leopard kingdom has 4 heads because the kingdom was broken into 4 parts when Alexander the Great died. This is history. God declared it before it happened. Amen.
The Grecian empire still exists today, hence why the 4 headed leopard also had 4 wings of a fowl. The 4 wings speak about how grecian influence spread to the 4 corners of the world. We know it as "hellenization". The 4 corners of the world were hellenized by the leopard kingdom. The end of the leopard kingdom comes when Babylon the Great is destroyed. For Babylon the Great is the "latter end" of the Grecian kingdom that has 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl.
"23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand." Daniel 8:23-25
As Daniel 8:23-25 tells us, The leopard kingdom ends right before the antichrist takes over. That means that The leopard kingdom has been ruling the world ever since the "first king" ruled over 2300+ years ago. The leopard kingdom relinquishes her rule when Babylon the Great falls. When Babylon the Great falls the 4th beast kingdom takes over.
The taking over of the world by the 4th beast kingdom is seen in the Book of Revelation. This only happens after Babylon the Great is destroyed, which ENDS the rule of the 3rd beast leopard kingdom. We see this here:
"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns." Revelation17:3
When John sees Babylon the Great ruling, the 10 horns DO NOT have 10 crowns. Why? Because the 10 horns aren't ruling yet. Babylon the Great is still ruling when John sees the vision in Revelation 17:3. The 10 horns only get to rule the world, with the beast, after they destroy Babylon the Great by fire which in turn ends the leopard kingdom and ushers in the 4th beast kingdom.
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." Revelation 17:12
"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." Revelation 17:16
When the 4th beast kingdom takes over the world we see that the 10 horns HAVE 10 crowns, meaning that Babylon the great has been destroyed by fire.
"1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Revelation 13:1
So again we see a perfect match. The Bible explains the Bible.
1. Daniel says in chapter 8 that the leopard kingdom ends when transgressors have come to the full. Then the "fierce king" rises up to rule the world.
2. Revelation says in chapter 17 that Babylon the Great has made the whole world drunk with the wine of her fornications (transgressors have come to the full) and then she is destroyed by fire, which allows the 10 kings to take over the world and rule with the beast for "One Hour" aka the 7 year tribulation.
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Post by douwant2go2heaven on Jul 4, 2019 8:45:05 GMT -6
The Bible says the 7 heads belong to the beast. And the Bible identifies the 7 heads for us in the book of Daniel which is directly tied to the book of Revelation. You can't separate the two.
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. Revelation 13:1-2
When the beast is revealed he:
1. looks like a leopard = 4 heads
2. has feet like a bear = 1 head
3. has a mouth like a lion = 1 head
4. he is the 4th beast that is dreadful = 1 head
The description of the beast in Revelation 13 is a direct link back to Daniel 7 which details all 4 beasts and gives us all 7 heads. The wisdom comes from rightly applying knowledge and understanding to what God has already declared in His word. The Bible speaks for itself. But only the Holy Spirit can reveal these things to us. That is why He said we must have wisdom. Without it we can't understand this. Amen.
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17:10-11
The 8 kings in Revelation 17 are directly linked to the leopard kingdom. The end of the leopard kingdom happens when the transgressors have come to the full, therefore Understanding that the leopard kingdom comes to an end when Babylon the Great falls clues us into what God tells us in Daniel 8. He specifically tells us that there is a first king.
The identification of a "First King" is nowhere else given in the Bible except for in Daniel 8:21. This is the clue God gives us! And right after the first king is mentioned, four more kings are mentioned. Bringing the total number of kings to 5.
This is the exact description God gave us in Revelation 17:10 when He told us 5 kings had already fallen.
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:10
Again the context of Revelation 17 is Babylon the Great, who is ruling at the time of the end of the Grecian Empire. So the 8 kings are all connected to that leopard kingdom that has 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl. God gives us the first 5 kings in Daniel 8:21-22
"21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power."
Secular history confirms the prophecy God gave us in Daniel. Alexander the Great was the "First King" and when he died his kingdom was broken into 4 parts and ruled by his 4 generals. They were the 5 kings who fell when John wrote Revelation in 90AD.
It really can't get more simpler than that.
- The 6th king is the one who "is" at the time John was writing. That was Caesar.
- The 7th king hadn't come yet when John was writing, but when the 7th king does come he only continues for a "short space". The 7th king is the ruler of Babylon the Great when she falls. Because right after the 7th king is mentioned, the 8th king comes to power who is of the 7.
Daniel 8 confirms that the Grecian empire "was" still in control right before the antichrist takes over:
"21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power."
23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
The reason why the 8th king is of the 7 is given to us in Revelation 13:2 when he is revealed.
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17:11
The 8th king who is of the 7 "looks" like a leopard when he is revealed.
"This beast looked like a leopard, but it had the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion! And the dragon gave the beast his own power and throne and great authority."
All 8 kings mentioned in Revelation 17:10-11 have to do with the leopard kingdom that had 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl. God even went so far as to tell us that there was a "first king" and then four kings took over which equals the exact number of kings who fell by the time John wrote the book of Revelation in 90AD.
This is what the Bible says. No speculation. No guess work. Bible study and wisdom reveals the truth by the power of the Holy Spirit. I pray that He will continue to teach us all great and mighty things that we do not know and open up our eyes to behold wondrous things out of His word. In jesus name, Amen.
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Jul 5, 2019 10:44:58 GMT -6
Which is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth? Rev 17:18
Jerusalem? Rome? Vatican City? Mecca? Moscow? Babylon? New York? Other?
My choice is Vatican City ... what is your choice?
I blogged a blog 8 months ago and in the blog I stated that Rev. 17:18 was speaking of Rome, (from my perspective) within 2 months the Holy Spirit had revealed to me that I was wrong, who Babylon was, who the Beast is and who the Harlot is. My opinion is my opinion, I never allow it to supersede God's revelation, in other words I do not hold on to the pride of my opinion. If you want to know who the Harlot, Beast and Babylon is read on. {What they call a teaser  }. To start with it is not a City, it is not Rome, Babylon proper, Jerusalem, NYC, it is not the RCC, Mecca or America. HINT: The Harlot and Babylon are two different entities. There is also NO MYSTERY BABYLON, I do not understand why we continue to say this, the Angel in 17:7 says this: Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. Since the Angel says I will explain the Mystery of the Woman (Harlot) and the Beast she rides (Seven Headed Beast) why do some insist that it is still a Mystery and why do we not understand that in Rev. 17:8-18 the Angel explains the Mystery unto us? Why do we miss what is in plain site? Mystery (Musterion) in the Greek basically means Secret by God's Silence, once God reveals the Secret/Mystery, it is no longer a mystery. The Seven Headed Beast is explained first by the Angel, many people say it sits on Seven (7) hills, when the passage has nothing to do with hills or location per se, it is speaking of Seven Rulers who arise, we understand this because in the very next verse it speaks about the Seven Kings. So she sits on Seven Mountains which equal Seven Rulers just like the Seven Heads equal Seven Kingdoms. God reduced the KINGDOMS to KINGS because the Last Beast is a mere MAN and God wanted us to know that.( as in 10/20 to 5/10 to 1/2) Then the Angel says Five have fallen, ONE IS, and one is YET TO COME. This is where we have to use our intelligence a wee bit. Who are these Kings? Well we see in Rev. 13 when this Seven Headed Beast is described that the Beasts of Daniel are included, the Lion (Babylon) Bear (Persia) and Leopard (Greece) along with Rome of course as the fierce Beast who was wounded to death. So we are searching for the other three heads, who can they possibly be? What is the commonality of the Beasts/Heads that are mentioned? They each Conquered, Enslaved or Ruled Israel, that is what made them a "BEAST", so we need to go through history and find the other three common Beasts/Heads. Well lets see, after a little research we should get this fairly easily, Egypt and Assyria Conquered/Enslaved Israel, and the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings will according to prophecy Conquer Israel (Abomination of Desolation). So lets add this up, and see what the Angel has revealed unto us. Five Kings have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) ONE IS (Rome of course was ruling Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region when John wrote Revelation) and one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings). We understand the Beast with Seven Heads now. This is why the USSR, China, the United States and even the Old British Empire or Ottoman Empire can not be a Beast or one of the Seven Heads, they never Conquered Israel, while Israel/Jewish Peoples were in the land. The Brits ruled Palestine as did the Ottoman Empire, but God had dispersed Israel all over the world by that time. Ezekiel prophesied that Israel would be as "Dead Men's Bones" but we know those dead men's bones came alive again in 1948, so after/during Rome's rule, and up until 1948, there could be no Beast, because there was no Israel in the land, and we also know that Satan could not overcome the Church, Jesus told Peter the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, so the Beast was Wounded, Amen. The Seven Headed Beast is revealed. Only after the Church is Raptured can the Beast live again. Now, what does the Angel say about the Harlot/Woman? Well firstly it says the Water she sat on is Peoples, Nations, Tongues and Multitudes. So right off the bat we understand she is Worldwide. A key to understanding this is found in Rev. 17:16 where the Kings in league with the Beast destroy her, but why after all these years of being co-mingled together do they burn her and destroy her ? Because she is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and the Anti-Christ right after the Abomination of Desolation will demand to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! The Anti-Christ will come after Israel, who flees to the Wilderness where God protects them for 1260 days (Rev. 12), he then comes after Christians who became Christians after the Rapture to behead them, those are the Remnant of the Church of Jesus. The Beast will destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and all Religions. He demands worship as the ONLY GOD !! Remember, the Harlot is Judged in Rev. 17, the very first verse in this chapter says that she is Judged at this time. False Religion has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs on its hands throughout all time. Anyone ever wonder why the Harlot is hated by the Kings but when Babylon is destroyed in Rev. 18 the Kings cry and lament her demise? Because they are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES !! Basically, Babylon is False Government and the Harlot is False Religion, the Harlot rides the Beast. But then people will say "but what about Revelation 17:18" that verse calls her a city? Well the Angel was only reminding John what he SAW, and the vision was only four verses (3-6). The vision was a woman with four things imprinted on her head, MYSTERY, Babylon the Great, Abominations of the Earth and Mother of Harlots. The Angel just reminded John that she was associated with Babylon the birthplace of FALSE RELIGIONS, she was a Mystery via the Mystic or Mystery Religions of the Sun and Moon gods/many gods. She was the Mother of Harlotry via Semiramis who married Nimrod her own son, and of course all false religion is an Abomination unto God. It is not a City, but a memory which is repulsive to God the Father of a Harlot, proof of this is in Rev. 16. (Harlots of old had a headband with their name on it to identify them, this Harlot is described with Four Names on her head.)There really is no Rev. 17 and 18 as per the timing coming after Rev. 16 and before before Rev. 19. These two chapters are just detailed accounts of events that happened before Armageddon, which of course happens in Rev. 16 where the Angel says, IT IS DONE !! meaning of course, its over, Jesus has won the victory. So what is Rev. 17 then ? Well it is only the Harlot (False Religion) being destroyed and that happens in Rev. 6 when the Anti-Christ goes forth to Conquer, this makes him the BEAST for 42 Months, he places the False Prophet (Religious Beast) over Religion, after he wipes out all Religions (except Beast worship). Rev. 18 is only Babylon or the Last Beast Head of the Seven Headed Beast who conquers Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region, getting the plagues of God rained down on them via the Trumpets and the Vials of God. Rev. 17 and 18 are just an enhanced retelling of things already told, thus in Rev. 16 we are told, it is done, and thus Jesus has the victory over Satan at that point in time. In Rev. 16 the 6th Vial gathers the nations against Israel (Anti-Christ/10 Kings which is Europe and the Kings of the East) and we know who meets them at Megido don't we? Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. After he lands on the Mt. of Olives (Zechariah 14:1-2) and splits it into (Earthquake). Rev. 16 tells it like this: Rev. 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. (IT IS DONE !! No Rev. 17 or Rev. 18 exists per se as per the timing) 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts (Earthquake splits Jerusalem), and the cities of the nations fell: (BABYLON FALLS) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. (God sees these nations that gather at Armageddon as who ? BABYLON !! So the Head of the Statue which is Gold, represents the whole Statue (Daniel 2) and the Rock (Jesus) that is cut out of the Mountain is going to SMASH that statue into pieces. AMEN..............Rev. 16:19 BOOM, we win. So we see here that BABYLON is only a memory of sorts, God sees the Nations that come against Israel as Babylon, and gives them the fierceness of his wrath. Of course Jesus lands on the Mt. of Olives and destroys those nations that come against Israel, that will be their demise. God Judges False Religion or the Harlot in Rev 17:16, she is no more after this, he uses the Beast and his 10 Kings to bring this Judgment, verse 17 says God placed this in their heart to do His will. This happens when the Beast or Anti-Christ places an Image of himself in the Temple and demands all peoples to Worship him as GOD, at the MID-WAY POINT or in Rev. chapter 6, those that don't will of course be dealt with. Babylon is destroyed by Gods plagues, Babylon equals the nations that come against Israel (the World that follows Satan) and God destroys her with His Plagues, which are the Seals, Trumpets and Vials. Babylons commerce is no doubt destroyed, that is what plagues do. Rev. 18 says Babylon is the habitation of Devils, well Satan has been cast to earth and Apollyon and his horde of demons have been released from the pit in Rev. 9. The BOTTOM LINE IS : The Harlot equals ALL FALSE RELIGION of all time. Babylon equals ALL FALSE GOVERNMENT which tries to destroy God's people, come after His authority, and deny His Godhead. It is not a City, it represents all that God sees as EVIL. The Evil Governance of Men under Satan !! The same men who refuse to acknowledge God's Godhead. Babel means confusion, the World following Satan is CONFUSED. This got wee bit longer than I had hoped, but us preachers never can stop, LOL. Its mostly an old blog of mine kinda updated. |
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Post by stormyknight on Jul 5, 2019 19:40:40 GMT -6
hmm. this video from Adam at Parable of the Vineyard is rather compelling.
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Post by venge on Jul 7, 2019 14:04:43 GMT -6
Blessings Venge. You said this : "Placing the Grecian split into 4 and not recognizing they are still Grecian but as you believe, 4 separate heads of the beast causes conflicts and does not match up with the logical wording of scripture." Not once did I say that the leopard kingdom wasn't still grecian. This is what I said in my last post: "The Grecian empire is still in control right before the fierce king takes over. STUDY VERSE 23!
The Grecian empire spread to the 4 corners of the world (western influence has spread to the 4 corners of the world)
The Grecian empire has it's final base located in Babylon the Great, the summation of all "western ideals and values"So I don't know if there is miscommunication going on because I don't see how you came to that conclusion if you read what I said. So let's try this again. Amen. "After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it." Daniel 7:6 1. The bible says that the leopard kingdom has 4 heads, not me. 2. The bible says that the leopard kingdom has 4 wings, not me. The reason why the leopard kingdom has 4 heads is given to us in the scriptures. "21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power." Daniel 8:21-22 The leopard kingdom has 4 heads because the kingdom was broken into 4 parts when Alexander the Great died. This is history. God declared it before it happened. Amen. The Grecian empire still exists today, hence why the 4 headed leopard also had 4 wings of a fowl. The 4 wings speak about how grecian influence spread to the 4 corners of the world. We know it as "hellenization". The 4 corners of the world were hellenized by the leopard kingdom. The end of the leopard kingdom comes when Babylon the Great is destroyed. For Babylon the Great is the "latter end" of the Grecian kingdom that has 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl. "23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand." Daniel 8:23-25As Daniel 8:23-25 tells us, The leopard kingdom ends right before the antichrist takes over. That means that The leopard kingdom has been ruling the world ever since the "first king" ruled over 2300+ years ago. The leopard kingdom relinquishes her rule when Babylon the Great falls. When Babylon the Great falls the 4th beast kingdom takes over. The taking over of the world by the 4th beast kingdom is seen in the Book of Revelation. This only happens after Babylon the Great is destroyed, which ENDS the rule of the 3rd beast leopard kingdom. We see this here:
"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns." Revelation17:3 When John sees Babylon the Great ruling, the 10 horns DO NOT have 10 crowns. Why? Because the 10 horns aren't ruling yet. Babylon the Great is still ruling when John sees the vision in Revelation 17:3. The 10 horns only get to rule the world, with the beast, after they destroy Babylon the Great by fire which in turn ends the leopard kingdom and ushers in the 4th beast kingdom.
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." Revelation 17:16 When the 4th beast kingdom takes over the world we see that the 10 horns HAVE 10 crowns, meaning that Babylon the great has been destroyed by fire.
"1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Revelation 13:1 So again we see a perfect match. The Bible explains the Bible. 1. Daniel says in chapter 8 that the leopard kingdom ends when transgressors have come to the full. Then the "fierce king" rises up to rule the world. 2. Revelation says in chapter 17 that Babylon the Great has made the whole world drunk with the wine of her fornications (transgressors have come to the full) and then she is destroyed by fire, which allows the 10 kings to take over the world and rule with the beast for "One Hour" aka the 7 year tribulation. , Just getting back to this. So to understand you, because I find it extremely hard to do so, you believe the Grecian Kingdom is still alive today? I agree with that. You said: The leopard kingdom ends right before the antichrist takes over. I agree with that too. The way you had previously explained it didn't sound like what you wrote here. |
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Post by venge on Jul 7, 2019 14:24:30 GMT -6
The Bible says the 7 heads belong to the beast. And the Bible identifies the 7 heads for us in the book of Daniel which is directly tied to the book of Revelation. You can't separate the two.
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. Revelation 13:1-2 When the beast is revealed he: 1. looks like a leopard = 4 heads 2. has feet like a bear = 1 head 3. has a mouth like a lion = 1 head 4. he is the 4th beast that is dreadful = 1 head The description of the beast in Revelation 13 is a direct link back to Daniel 7 which details all 4 beasts and gives us all 7 heads. The wisdom comes from rightly applying knowledge and understanding to what God has already declared in His word. The Bible speaks for itself. But only the Holy Spirit can reveal these things to us. That is why He said we must have wisdom. Without it we can't understand this. Amen.
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17:10-11 The 8 kings in Revelation 17 are directly linked to the leopard kingdom. The end of the leopard kingdom happens when the transgressors have come to the full, therefore Understanding that the leopard kingdom comes to an end when Babylon the Great falls clues us into what God tells us in Daniel 8. He specifically tells us that there is a first king. The identification of a "First King" is nowhere else given in the Bible except for in Daniel 8:21. This is the clue God gives us! And right after the first king is mentioned, four more kings are mentioned. Bringing the total number of kings to 5. This is the exact description God gave us in Revelation 17:10 when He told us 5 kings had already fallen.
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." Revelation 17:10 Again the context of Revelation 17 is Babylon the Great, who is ruling at the time of the end of the Grecian Empire. So the 8 kings are all connected to that leopard kingdom that has 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl. God gives us the first 5 kings in Daniel 8:21-22 " 21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power."Secular history confirms the prophecy God gave us in Daniel. Alexander the Great was the "First King" and when he died his kingdom was broken into 4 parts and ruled by his 4 generals. They were the 5 kings who fell when John wrote Revelation in 90AD. It really can't get more simpler than that. - The 6th king is the one who "is" at the time John was writing. That was Caesar. - The 7th king hadn't come yet when John was writing, but when the 7th king does come he only continues for a "short space". The 7th king is the ruler of Babylon the Great when she falls. Because right after the 7th king is mentioned, the 8th king comes to power who is of the 7. Daniel 8 confirms that the Grecian empire "was" still in control right before the antichrist takes over: "21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power."23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
The reason why the 8th king is of the 7 is given to us in Revelation 13:2 when he is revealed.
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17:11 The 8th king who is of the 7 "looks" like a leopard when he is revealed. "This beast looked like a leopard, but it had the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion! And the dragon gave the beast his own power and throne and great authority." All 8 kings mentioned in Revelation 17:10-11 have to do with the leopard kingdom that had 4 heads and 4 wings of a fowl. God even went so far as to tell us that there was a "first king" and then four kings took over which equals the exact number of kings who fell by the time John wrote the book of Revelation in 90AD. This is what the Bible says. No speculation. No guess work. Bible study and wisdom reveals the truth by the power of the Holy Spirit. I pray that He will continue to teach us all great and mighty things that we do not know and open up our eyes to behold wondrous things out of His word. In jesus name, Amen. , You said: Not sure I agree here. Number 2, 3 and 4 are correct. Number 1 relating to the leopard with 4 heads...the text states like unto a leopard. Not like unto a leopard with 4 heads. For that you went to the split of Alexanders kingdom. And I dont see any scripture that says those 4 heads belong to the 7 total heads of the beast. The reason being is that the 4 heads come out of Alexanders kingdom..being 1 head, then split into 4. But it still was one. Counting 4 heads for Alexanders kingdom removes the heads of Egypt and Assyria which are mentioned in scripture as being the first 2 nations (out of 7) that took the rod against Israel. It also doesn't leave room for Rome which is the 6th head. Then you said: I don't agree with that stement as how you wrote it. It is interesting to me, that you are the only person I have met that we both agree the Leopard is still in control. Everyone else says Rome /sigh And as you point out, the Bible states: Whose Kingdom is "theirs"? Obviously the 4 that controlled Alexanders Grecian Kingdom. But I don't see the 8 kings as you do it seems. I tend to take the 8 kings/kingdoms as the kings and kingdoms they ruled from Egypt to Assyria to Babylonian to Persian etc... They are only related as controlled by Grecian power. |
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Post by mike on Jul 11, 2019 14:52:20 GMT -6
Which is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth? Rev 17:18
Jerusalem? Rome? Vatican City? Mecca? Moscow? Babylon? New York? Other?
My choice is Vatican City ... what is your choice? My choice is none of the above. My choice would be Sodom, and Egypt. Like it was in the days of Lot, like it was in the day of the Old Pharaoh boy. The great city is the world full of hard hearts that don't want to do what God says to do. The great city is the jeering crowd screaming: "CRUCIFY HIM". The great city is now. "And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.A great city is made up of CITI-ZENS. It's the same thing as Daniel 8's "kingdom of the rebels", the kingdom of transgressors. This is not a literal kingdom or a city in a geographical location on earth. It's the cumulative number of people that are in final rebellion with God. These are also the many waters, the many peoples and nations and tongues that the composite beast has risen from. And at the latter end of their reign, when they have become completely wicked, they will meet their stern faced king. Riddle me that one. The Great City Split into Three PartsKing David defeated the Moabites. He made them all lay down side by side and counted them off by twos. He killed every two, but spared the third. Kill Kill Spare. Kill Kill Spare. Kill Kill Spare. 2/3's were destroyed, 1/3 was saved. 666 = Destruction.  "And he defeated Moab and he measured them with a line, making them lie down on the ground. Two lines he measured to be put to death, and one full line to be spared. And the Moabites became servants to David and brought tribute. - 2 Samuel 8:2 That's got God's fingerprints all over it. God works in thirds. That's how God does His Wrath. Even with His own people. Like in Ezekiel 5. A third part of you shall die of pestilence and be consumed with famine in your midst; A third part shall fall by the sword all around you; and A third part I will scatter to all the winds and will unsheathe the sword after them. “Thus shall my anger spend itself, and I will vent my fury upon them and satisfy myself. Like the poor Moabites, 2/3's are destroyed, 1/3 is saved. And then in Revelation we find a dozen or so examples of a "third' being destroyed. A third of the earth was burned up, A third of the trees were burned up, A third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, A third of the ships were destroyed. A third of the rivers and on the springs of water. A third of the waters became wormwood, A third of the sun was struck, A third of the moon, A third of the stars, A third of their light might be darkened, A third of the day might be kept from shining, A third of the night. A third of mankind. But two thirds are always spared. There's never a complete destruction of the Earth, or of all the Earth's inhabitants up to this point in the narrative. But there comes a time, when the time will come, for God to destroy the destroyers of the earth. With a sharp sword that comes from His mouth, a sharp command to die. The land will finally have had enough and will vomit out it's inhabitants. "The great city was split into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great,
to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.The great city is split into three parts, split into thirds. Notice the "drain the cup" part? Like, if someone drains the cup of the fury of God's Wrath, this is total destruction. This is the type of Wrath that is NOT diluted. I hate to even think about it. All three "third"s are destroyed. Up until this point, the wrath WAS always diluted, or mixed with blood, mixed with mercy. A third of the trees, a third of the ships, a third of the day and a third of mankind. But two "thirds" were always spared. At the end of the second coming, the cup is drained. The Great City will be split into three parts. At the end of the end time tribulation, there will be only two types of people on Earth. At the seventh trumpet there will be God's People, which is God's Holy City, and there will be the Great City, the cities of the nations that will fall. Then God's people are ALL changed in the blink of an eye and find themselves in the air while ALL of the tribes remaining on the earth, the great city, will mourn, they are dead men walking. Those who are not killed in the wine press, and by the plagues, were slain by a sharp sword that came out from the white horse rider's mouth. "And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
Like the bartender says at closing time, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. But don't fret. "There's a better Home a waiting. In the sky, Lord in the sky. Dave thought of another 1/3...driving past a church today on my way outta work I saw three crosses. At first I thought two were righteous. Jesus and the one next to Him who believed, the other received punishment for rejection of the Son. Than I thought wait One received wrath. all judgment was poured into Him in that moment and one certainly believed and received God's gift. Then I was thrown off and said "I wanna post this" and nearly crashed trying to find this thread 😂 |
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Post by davewatchman on Jul 13, 2019 10:42:43 GMT -6
My choice is none of the above. My choice would be Sodom, and Egypt. Like it was in the days of Lot, like it was in the day of the Old Pharaoh boy. The great city is the world full of hard hearts that don't want to do what God says to do. The great city is the jeering crowd screaming: "CRUCIFY HIM". The great city is now. "And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.A great city is made up of CITI-ZENS. It's the same thing as Daniel 8's "kingdom of the rebels", the kingdom of transgressors. This is not a literal kingdom or a city in a geographical location on earth. It's the cumulative number of people that are in final rebellion with God. These are also the many waters, the many peoples and nations and tongues that the composite beast has risen from. And at the latter end of their reign, when they have become completely wicked, they will meet their stern faced king. Riddle me that one. The Great City Split into Three PartsKing David defeated the Moabites. He made them all lay down side by side and counted them off by twos. He killed every two, but spared the third. Kill Kill Spare. Kill Kill Spare. Kill Kill Spare. 2/3's were destroyed, 1/3 was saved. 666 = Destruction. "And he defeated Moab and he measured them with a line, making them lie down on the ground. Two lines he measured to be put to death, and one full line to be spared. And the Moabites became servants to David and brought tribute. - 2 Samuel 8:2 That's got God's fingerprints all over it. God works in thirds. That's how God does His Wrath. Even with His own people. Like in Ezekiel 5. A third part of you shall die of pestilence and be consumed with famine in your midst; A third part shall fall by the sword all around you; and A third part I will scatter to all the winds and will unsheathe the sword after them. “Thus shall my anger spend itself, and I will vent my fury upon them and satisfy myself. Like the poor Moabites, 2/3's are destroyed, 1/3 is saved. And then in Revelation we find a dozen or so examples of a "third' being destroyed. A third of the earth was burned up, A third of the trees were burned up, A third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, A third of the ships were destroyed. A third of the rivers and on the springs of water. A third of the waters became wormwood, A third of the sun was struck, A third of the moon, A third of the stars, A third of their light might be darkened, A third of the day might be kept from shining, A third of the night. A third of mankind. But two thirds are always spared. There's never a complete destruction of the Earth, or of all the Earth's inhabitants up to this point in the narrative. But there comes a time, when the time will come, for God to destroy the destroyers of the earth. With a sharp sword that comes from His mouth, a sharp command to die. The land will finally have had enough and will vomit out it's inhabitants. "The great city was split into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great,
to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.The great city is split into three parts, split into thirds. Notice the "drain the cup" part? Like, if someone drains the cup of the fury of God's Wrath, this is total destruction. This is the type of Wrath that is NOT diluted. I hate to even think about it. All three "third"s are destroyed. Up until this point, the wrath WAS always diluted, or mixed with blood, mixed with mercy. A third of the trees, a third of the ships, a third of the day and a third of mankind. But two "thirds" were always spared. At the end of the second coming, the cup is drained. The Great City will be split into three parts. At the end of the end time tribulation, there will be only two types of people on Earth. At the seventh trumpet there will be God's People, which is God's Holy City, and there will be the Great City, the cities of the nations that will fall. Then God's people are ALL changed in the blink of an eye and find themselves in the air while ALL of the tribes remaining on the earth, the great city, will mourn, they are dead men walking. Those who are not killed in the wine press, and by the plagues, were slain by a sharp sword that came out from the white horse rider's mouth. "And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
Like the bartender says at closing time, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. But don't fret. "There's a better Home a waiting. In the sky, Lord in the sky. Dave thought of another 1/3...driving past a church today on my way outta work I saw three crosses. At first I thought two were righteous. Jesus and the one next to Him who believed, the other received punishment for rejection of the Son. Than I thought wait One received wrath. all judgment was poured into Him in that moment and one certainly believed and received God's gift. Then I was thrown off and said "I wanna post this" and nearly crashed trying to find this thread 😂 That's a good one Mike, why didn't i think of that.  I just found this one while watching one of the videos from the English Girl. Genesis 18 New International Version (NIV)
The Three Visitors
18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”
6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. “Quick,” he said, “get three seahs of the finest flour and knead it and bake some bread.”
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+18&version=NIVHer old channel is still going. So i've been going through her videos again trying to force myself to understand her dual Passover timeline. But no luck. I worry about her though. For the sake of her sanity, i hope she's right.
The Mexican Girl at the end sounds not too bad whoever she is. All she needs is for Carlos Santana to add a riff for the full effect. |
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Post by socalexile on Jul 13, 2019 11:50:36 GMT -6
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