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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:00:46 GMT -6
Likewise bowman troll....may Daniel permeate your dreams! 
You can do better than to name call, sam....
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:01:29 GMT -6
bowman, troll elsewhere
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 20:05:23 GMT -6
Your OP is disingenuous....trolling is the proper categorization......have fun
Bowman, please direct your attention to others who want to play your game, I am excusing myself.....take your game elsewhere, thanks, I am not feeding the troll.....dont ask others what they think when you already know they are wrong, hth
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:07:53 GMT -6
Actually, the fact that Satan is bound in Rev 12, is proven-out in Rev 13 which describes the fact that Satan is not there in person, as Satan gives his 'power' (i.e. demons) to the beast (mankind).
Thank you both for referencing Revelation; a book that I love. If I understand you correctly, you are referencing Rev. 12:9 wherein Satan is "cast out" as supporting evidence to your position that Satan is bound. I am at a disadvantage because I use the KJV at my desk next to my computer and not the version that is used for quotes here at Unsealed. So here is the KJV: Rev. 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." This verse seems to indicate that Satan is cast from some place "into the earth." However, in Verse 12:17 it states: "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." As you can see, casting Satan into the earth does not mean that he is bound from making war with the seed of the woman. So, I guess that I am missing your reference to Rev. 12. Please show me how you connect Satan being bound to this chapter. You do mention that it is "proven-out" in Chapter 13 "which describes the fact that Satan is not there in person" but "gives his power" to demons and mankind. From what I read in Rev. 13:2 Satan is there in person giving his power, seat, and great authority to wit: "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." I mean, the verse clearly states "the dragon gave" "the beast which I saw" his power, seat, and great authority. How do you suppose that the dragon did this if he was not there? I mean, the beast is there, so wouldn't the dragon be there to give these things? If the dragon is there, then how can he be bound to not be there? The logic is off somewhere so please explain.
Actually, Rev 12.17 is what determines that Satan was bound, as he went away (Greek 'apēlthen' i.e. in an absolute manner) to make war....
The same term used of Satan in Jesus’ parable…
He put before them another parable, saying: The kingdom of Heaven is compared to a Man having sown good seed(singular) in his field. But while the men were sleeping, one hostile to Him came and sowed tares (plural) in the midst of the wheat, AND WENT AWAY. And when the blade (singular) sprouted and produced fruit, then the tares (plural) also appeared. And coming near, the slaves of the housemaster said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then from where does it have the tares? And he said to them, A man, an enemy did this. And the slaves said to him, Do you desire, then, that going out we should gather them? But he said, No, lest gathering the tares you should uproot the wheat(singular) with them. Allow both to grow together until the harvest. And in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, First gather the tares, and bind them into bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary. (Mat 13.24 – 30)
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:10:57 GMT -6
Please list your position and support scripture. Thanks... I vote NO, Satan is not bound today. He won't be bound until Jesus gets back and the thousand years of Revelation 20 begins. "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. Are you Amil ?
Welcome to the forum bowman.
Rev 20 is written in the aorist (completed action).
Yes...I am A-Millennial.
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:17:58 GMT -6
Please list your position and support scripture.
Thanks...
Chiming in here - I read the thread and come back to this post. Bowman please start the thread with the things you are requesting of others. What is your position (Satan is bound) and explain why you see it this way, with the scriptures you apply to that position. This will help those "playing along" to understand your vantage point. We may not all see things from the angle. At times two people can look at the same thing and describe differently, yet seeing the same thing. So please help us see from your view.
Sure thing...
My position is that Satan was bound at The Cross.
Here are a few simple scriptural examples of why I hold to this position...
Scriptural verbs employed demarking Satan being presently bound:
• People of God have been guarded ‘tērei’ (completed action). 1 John 5.18
• The Evil One does not touch ‘haptetai’ God’s people (present tense). 1 John 5.18
• Jesus rendered The Devil entirely idle ‘katargēsē’ (completed action) at His death upon The Cross. Heb 2.14
• Jesus has taken The Adversary out of the way ‘ērken’ (completed action) and nailed ‘prosēlōsas’ (completed action) him to The Cross. Col 2.14
• Jesus stripped The Devil of authority ‘apekdysamenos’ (completed action) and separated him from his demons, at The Cross. Col 2.15
• The Devil was exposed in disgrace ‘edeigmatisen’ (completed action) and was led as a prisoner in a triumphant procession ‘thriambeusas’ (completed action) Col 2.15
• The Lawless One is bound now ‘katechon’ (present tense), but will be revealed ‘apokalyphthēsetai’ (future action) 2 Thes 2.6 – 8
• Jesus’ shed blood transferred ownership ‘ēgorasas’ (completed action) to God. Rev 5.9
• Jesus’ blood ransomed ‘elytrōthēte’ (completed action) us from godless behavior passed down by our forefathers. 1 Peter 1.18
• Jesus gave ‘edōken’ (completed action) Himself and ransomed ‘lytrōsētai’ (completed action) us from Lawlessness. Titus 2.14
• The Evil One, The Hostile One, The Devil departed in an absolute manner ‘apēlthen’ (completed action), but left behind his demons; Jesus’ Parable of the Wheat & the Tares Mat 13.25
• The Ruler of the World will be cast out ‘ekblēthēsetai’ (future tense) when Jesus is crucified upon The Cross. John 12.31 – 33
• The Dragon, The Old Serpent, The Devil, Satan was bound ‘edēsen’ (completed action), cast into the abyss ‘ebalen’ (completed action), shut ‘ekleisen’ (completed action), and sealed ‘esphragisen’ (completed action), that he can no longer deceive people‘planēsē’(singular, completed action), by Jesus. Rev 20.1 – 3
• Paul was rescued ‘errysthēn’ (completed action) from the mouth of The Lion. 2 Tim 4.17
• Jesus will guard ‘phylaxei’ (future tense) us from The Evil One. 2 The 3.3
• Our battle is not against flesh and blood, nor with The Darkness, but with his spiritual powers. Eph 6.11 - 16
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:22:10 GMT -6
Bowman Just thinking out loud... 1Pet 5:8 kinda tells us Satan isn't bound. Maybe not so much in that exact verbiage but here let's look at it in the YLT version 8 Be sober, vigilant, because your opponent the devil, as a roaring lion, doth walk about, seeking whom he may swallow up,If I were looking to devour a nice filet mignon and were bound I may sound like a lion because I couldn't get to that piece of meat. But the words used here says he (devil) is walking. Other variants like the KJV call him the adversary (Satan) the devil...just this verse alone would lead anyone to believe Satan is yet to be bound. Adversary ἀντίδικος (antidikos) — 2 Occurrences 1Pet 5:8 Matt 5:25
νηψατε γρηγορησατε ο αντιδικος υμων διαβολος ως λεων ωρυομενος περιπατει ζητων καταπιειν
nēpsate grēgorēsate ho antidikos hymōn diabolos hōs leōn ōryomenos peripatei zētōn tina katapiein
Be sober-minded, watch, the adversary devil of you walks about in the same manner as a roaring lion seeking whom to devour;
This passage does not refer to ‘The Devil’ himself, for several reasons:
• ‘Diabolos’ is anarthrous (i.e. it lacks a preceding Greek definite article). Thus, rather than referring to ‘The Devil’ it refers to ‘A devil’, a demon – of which, the NT often refers to demons as devils.
• ‘Ho antidikos’ (the adversary) is used in only one other NT passage, Mat 5.25, and is in the context of being thrown into prison.
• The key word ‘hōs’ literally means ‘in the same manner as’, and is used to describe demons in Revelation, ‘in the same manner as’ a lion (Rev 9.8).
• This passage does not pertain to 'The Devil"....but 'A devil'...i.e. a demon...
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:24:47 GMT -6
I voted no for the same reason as mike ,
"Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." 1 Pet 5:8
If he hasn't been cast to the earth permanently then he has access to come and go as he pleases. If he has, then, well he's here until the end of this age when he will be bound for a thousand years.
1 Peter 5.8 is the 'go to' passage for those that adhere to Satan roaming free.
However, when properly studied, and compared to the whole of scripture, this passage merely refers to a demon...
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:27:39 GMT -6
Voted no. Not bound. For me, Satan is not bound till Rev 11. In Rev 11, Christ begins to reign at the 7th Trumpet. Per Rev 20, Satan is sealed 1k years, the same time Christ reigns. As Satan, called the god of this world, is removed..christ can take the kingdom and remove all that offends and works iniquity.
Actually, Satan is NOT the God of this world, Jesus is.
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Post by Natalie on May 31, 2019 20:53:33 GMT -6
Voted no. Not bound. For me, Satan is not bound till Rev 11. In Rev 11, Christ begins to reign at the 7th Trumpet. Per Rev 20, Satan is sealed 1k years, the same time Christ reigns. As Satan, called the god of this world, is removed..christ can take the kingdom and remove all that offends and works iniquity.
Actually, Satan is NOT the God of this world, Jesus is.
2 Cor 4:4 |
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 20:55:13 GMT -6
Actually, Satan is NOT the God of this world, Jesus is.
2 Cor 4:4
Contrary to popular modern belief, ‘The God of this age’, (ho Theos tou aiōnos toutou), in 2 Cor 4.4, actually pertains to Jesus Christ and NOT Satan, and provides yet another potent scriptural proof for Jesus’ deity.
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Post by davewatchman on May 31, 2019 21:03:08 GMT -6
I vote NO, Satan is not bound today. He won't be bound until Jesus gets back and the thousand years of Revelation 20 begins. "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. Are you Amil ?
Welcome to the forum bowman. Rev 20 is written in the aorist (completed action). Yes...I am A-Millennial. I heard that one before, like the cattle on a thousand hills. Everything's an allegory, a metaphor and a literary device. Even the prophetic time periods themselves. Then where does the average Amil say we are in Revelation's narrative now. No mark of the beast, no be-headings, no Antichrist sounds nice. But what comes next on the Amil agenda. The Amils and Preterists sound smart, but the Dispys can be more fun to hang out with. |
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 21:05:24 GMT -6
Rev 20 is written in the aorist (completed action). Yes...I am A-Millennial. I heard that one before, like the cattle on a thousand hills. Everything's an allegory, a metaphor and a literary device. Even the prophetic time periods themselves. Then where does the average Amil say we are in Revelation's narrative now. No mark of the beast, no be-headings, no Antichrist sounds nice. But what comes next on the Amil agenda. The Amils and Preterists sound smart, but the Dispys can be more fun to hang out with. The ‘1,000 years’ (Rev 20.2 – 7) is also referred to as ‘1260 days of prophecy’ (Rev 11.3); ‘1260 days of nourishment’ (Rev 12.6); ‘time, and times and half a time of nourishment’ (Rev 12.14); and ‘42 months’ (Rev 11.2; 13.5).The important thing to remember is that numbers mark a time period in which events transpire....but not an exact time period that matches the number. |
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Post by Natalie on May 31, 2019 21:23:10 GMT -6
It's past my bedtime so I am tired but, how can 1000 years be the same as 42 months or three and a half years or 1260 days?
God gave those specific numbers for a reason. You can't just make them mean whatever you want.
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 21:29:51 GMT -6
It's past my bedtime so I am tired but, how can 1000 years be the same as 42 months or three and a half years or 1260 days? God gave those specific numbers for a reason. You can't just make them mean whatever you want.
Like many things mentioned in the Book of Revelation, time passage is also recorded with varying epithets.
Satan is referred to by 100+ different names, titles and epithets in scripture.
The Triune God of the Holy Bible has 1000+ names, titles and epithets in scripture.
Time passage is recorded similarly....
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