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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 21:45:06 GMT -6
your right bowman......goodnight!
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Post by bowman on May 30, 2019 21:48:07 GMT -6
your right bowman......goodnight!
Sweet studies, sam...
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Post by boraddict on May 30, 2019 21:54:46 GMT -6
I would like to play this game. First of all so that I know the parameters; does your take on the subject stem from personal research that is independent of a religious doctrine, or, does your take on the subject harmonize with a religious doctrine. 2) if your view is independent of a religious doctrine then will you please tell me the doctrine that you most often lean toward. 3) if your view harmonizes with a doctrine then will you please tell me the organization so that I can research the subject further from that perspective. Let's have some fun.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 21:57:39 GMT -6
Likewise bowman troll....may Daniel permeate your dreams!
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Post by boraddict on May 31, 2019 7:08:36 GMT -6
Thanks bowman....I suppose I believe he is not "bound" by your definition, as described in Revelation 12, Daniel 7,9,12....he is thrown to earth to persecute the woman, her offspring, and his little horn shatters the power of the holy people at the prior to the resurrection....
Actually, the fact that Satan is bound in Rev 12, is proven-out in Rev 13 which describes the fact that Satan is not there in person, as Satan gives his 'power' (i.e. demons) to the beast (mankind).
Thank you both for referencing Revelation; a book that I love. If I understand you correctly, you are referencing Rev. 12:9 wherein Satan is "cast out" as supporting evidence to your position that Satan is bound. I am at a disadvantage because I use the KJV at my desk next to my computer and not the version that is used for quotes here at Unsealed. So here is the KJV: Rev. 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." This verse seems to indicate that Satan is cast from some place "into the earth." However, in Verse 12:17 it states: "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." As you can see, casting Satan into the earth does not mean that he is bound from making war with the seed of the woman. So, I guess that I am missing your reference to Rev. 12. Please show me how you connect Satan being bound to this chapter. You do mention that it is "proven-out" in Chapter 13 "which describes the fact that Satan is not there in person" but "gives his power" to demons and mankind. From what I read in Rev. 13:2 Satan is there in person giving his power, seat, and great authority to wit: "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." I mean, the verse clearly states "the dragon gave" "the beast which I saw" his power, seat, and great authority. How do you suppose that the dragon did this if he was not there? I mean, the beast is there, so wouldn't the dragon be there to give these things? If the dragon is there, then how can he be bound to not be there? The logic is off somewhere so please explain.
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Post by davewatchman on May 31, 2019 8:05:14 GMT -6
Please list your position and support scripture. Thanks... I vote NO, Satan is not bound today. He won't be bound until Jesus gets back and the thousand years of Revelation 20 begins. "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. Are you Amil ?
Welcome to the forum bowman.
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Post by davewatchman on May 31, 2019 8:39:09 GMT -6
Viewer Discretion Advised.Graphic Images.Actually, the fact that Satan is bound in Rev 12, is proven-out in Rev 13 which describes the fact that Satan is not there in person, as Satan gives his 'power' (i.e. demons) to the beast (mankind).
As you can see, casting Satan into the earth does not mean that he is bound from making war with the seed of the woman. I agree with what you say here boraddict. Just because Satan was cast out into the earth doesn't mean he was immediately bound from making war on God's People, the woman. Where my view can differ from the norm, i think, is that i believe that Satan was already cast out of Heaven on Resurrection Sunday. New Jerusalem is big, but it's not big enough for Jesus and Satan to be inside of at the same time. Not after what Jesus went through. Satan was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. - John 12:31
And as soon as he saw that he was cast out, he went right after the woman, right after the newly formed Christian Body. He hit the woman very hard during the Foxe Book Days of Europe. Just ask Anna Charboniere during her Peidmont Easter. Her blood still cries out to the Lord from beneath the alter. Satan was NOT bound during those dark days. But we are not the woman anymore, we are the offspring of that woman that the Dragon is making war with. Ask the Christian Pastor's Wife, Ding Cuimei, who was run over and buried alive by a bulldozer in China. These things are not going to happen when Satan is bound. www.christianpost.com/news/china-church-leaders-wife-buried-alive-killed-for-protesting-church-demolition.htmlwww.foxnews.com/world/martyr-killed-by-bulldozer-becomes-symbol-of-growing-persecution-of-christians-in-chinaDing Cuimei suffocated after being buried alive. "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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Post by Natalie on May 31, 2019 9:01:29 GMT -6
Don't hold your breath....I wont be biting at your trolls!
Perhaps someone will step in and help you out.....you can't even so much as quote a single passage...
I realize that typed communication can come across differently than spoken. We don't have tone of voice or facial expressions to go with the words. Please be careful of the words you use towards others. Maybe you didn't mean that to sound condescending, but that is the way I interpreted it.
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Post by davewatchman on May 31, 2019 9:22:17 GMT -6
Perhaps someone will step in and help you out.....you can't even so much as quote a single passage...
Don't hold your breath....I wont be biting at your trolls! I realize that typed communication can come across differently than spoken. We don't have tone of voice or facial expressions to go with the words. Please be careful of the words you use towards others. Maybe you didn't mean that to sound condescending, but that is the way I interpreted it. I can't figure out which guy you're talking to. your right bowman......goodnight! Look, they made up. your right bowman......goodnight! Sweet studies, sam... Good night John Boy. Nothing to see here folks, Move along.
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Post by mike on May 31, 2019 9:43:07 GMT -6
Please list your position and support scripture.
Thanks...
Chiming in here - I read the thread and come back to this post. Bowman please start the thread with the things you are requesting of others. What is your position (Satan is bound) and explain why you see it this way, with the scriptures you apply to that position. This will help those "playing along" to understand your vantage point. We may not all see things from the angle. At times two people can look at the same thing and describe differently, yet seeing the same thing. So please help us see from your view.
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Post by mike on May 31, 2019 10:46:12 GMT -6
Bowman Just thinking out loud...
1Pet 5:8 kinda tells us Satan isn't bound. Maybe not so much in that exact verbiage but here let's look at it in the YLT version
8 Be sober, vigilant, because your opponent the devil, as a roaring lion, doth walk about, seeking whom he may swallow up,
If I were looking to devour a nice filet mignon and were bound I may sound like a lion because I couldn't get to that piece of meat. But the words used here says he (devil) is walking. Other variants like the KJV call him the adversary (Satan) the devil...just this verse alone would lead anyone to believe Satan is yet to be bound.
Adversary ἀντίδικος (antidikos) — 2 Occurrences 1Pet 5:8 Matt 5:25
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Post by stormyknight on May 31, 2019 11:56:36 GMT -6
I voted no for the same reason as mike,
"Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." 1 Pet 5:8
If he hasn't been cast to the earth permanently then he has access to come and go as he pleases. If he has, then, well he's here until the end of this age when he will be bound for a thousand years.
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Post by stormyknight on May 31, 2019 14:04:45 GMT -6
I find the two words used for this individual interesting. antidikos = an opponent in a suit, defendant, plaintiff diabolos = slanderer, adversary, The Devil
Sooooo, the devil is a lawyer in a slick suit?
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Post by venge on May 31, 2019 14:24:10 GMT -6
Voted no. Not bound. For me, Satan is not bound till Rev 11. In Rev 11, Christ begins to reign at the 7th Trumpet. Per Rev 20, Satan is sealed 1k years, the same time Christ reigns. As Satan, called the god of this world, is removed..christ can take the kingdom and remove all that offends and works iniquity.
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Post by bowman on May 31, 2019 19:59:39 GMT -6
I would like to play this game. First of all so that I know the parameters; does your take on the subject stem from personal research that is independent of a religious doctrine, or, does your take on the subject harmonize with a religious doctrine. 2) if your view is independent of a religious doctrine then will you please tell me the doctrine that you most often lean toward. 3) if your view harmonizes with a doctrine then will you please tell me the organization so that I can research the subject further from that perspective. Let's have some fun.
Scripture is never a 'game'.
My position stems from serious Biblical exegesis, independent of any particular religious doctrine.
My conclusion, as drawn from scripture, is that Satan is presently bound....he was bound at The Cross.
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