|
|
Post by kjs on Sept 12, 2018 9:38:44 GMT -6
The Zionist or basically the group that fought and got the Jewish people their homeland back (with God’s Hand of course)…..
Here is how it is defined….
“a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.”
Now many conspiracy theories and discussions blame the “Zionist” and actually criticizes this group as being the Bad Guys……
I take this a bit personally – since I support Israel having their own country. No I do understand not all those in Israel are Jewish or Christian – I also realize many of the people there are very secular…..
But I do not think anyone should remove their support for the existence of the country….. In fact, I believe those that do so are Anti-Jewish and against God….
How do y’all see it? Are you a Zionist (as defined above)? |
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Sept 12, 2018 11:22:22 GMT -6
Well, I must be a Zionist by that definition. I believe that God gave that land to the Jews, and He says they will be regathered into it, and they will own it forever. Far be it from me to oppose the Almighty. Woe to those who do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Sept 12, 2018 11:46:50 GMT -6
Yep, I am a Zionist. I go to church with a bunch of them, too.  I know when most people use it that it sounds like a bad word. I think they don't understand the true meaning. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 7:29:44 GMT -6
I think it may be helpful to realize, that others have often a different view of Zionism. Some more definitions can be found here.
But according to kjs' quotation I am also definitely a Zionist and glad to be one. |
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 13, 2018 14:49:38 GMT -6
via mobile
fitz likes this
Post by rockito on Sept 13, 2018 14:49:38 GMT -6
Absolutely!
|
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Sept 19, 2018 10:55:26 GMT -6
kjs, ok, I get the definition, and admit I've had it wrong/backwards, but how would you define the 'jews that aren't jews', as I would define the Rothchilds and Warburgs and such? From what I understand, they wanted the creation of the Jewish State of Israel as well, but for nefarious reasons. Am I misunderstanding this as well? This area is not something I've looked into much and just figured these were people who blindly followed satan's plans. I guess my question is; Are these people who are referenced in Rev. 2:9 and 3:9?
"I know your affliction and your poverty — though you are rich! And I am aware of the slander of those who falsely claim to be Jews, but are in fact a synagogue of Satan." Rev. 2:9
"Look at those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead. I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I love you." Rev. 3:9
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 19, 2018 12:20:06 GMT -6
Post by kjs on Sept 19, 2018 12:20:06 GMT -6
The conspiracy theories love to mention these family names "the Rothchilds and Warburgs"
and I will admit they are "rich and powerful" families -- but does those "facts" necessarily make them evil?
As already mentioned -- yes, I am aware of most of those "Jewish people" in Israel right now are secular (meaning not religious) and more than likely look down on any who are deeply religious. But I just view that as further proof of what Apostle Paul stated in Romans -- that they are temporarily "Blinded".
Did these Families actually "force the state of Israel to come into existence"?
God might have used them to bring His will about -- but God is the one in control....
What I really get upset with is the "mud-slinging" being done against anyone who supports Israel and blaming the "evil Zionist" as the bully of "world problems"....
Just shows a very Anti-semantic Bias --- in my mind...........
Add to the fact that many Palestine's, claim Israel "stole their land" -- talk about re-writing history -- they tried to "wipe" Israel off the map --- and they LOST the War!
They LOST -- which means they lost the area (land) as well........
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 19, 2018 13:17:13 GMT -6
Post by stormyknight on Sept 19, 2018 13:17:13 GMT -6
Please, don't get me wrong, kjs , I mean no offense. It is difficult to glean the truth sometimes from legend, myth, and tall tales, but, more often than not, those tales have some grain of truth to them, however much they've been embellished upon. www.rothschildarchive.org/materials/nathan_and_waterloo.pdfThe verses I posted lead me to believe that there are 'good Jews and bad Jews', so to speak,(just like there are good and bad in any and all cultures, races, religions, genders, rich and poor.) Like I stated, this is not something I have studied in depth, more just in passing. I understand God is the one that makes things happen, and who He uses to do so is His prerogative.
edit: the above link is just an example of how stories can become convoluted and the actual truth does not quite reach the ears of the general public.
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 19, 2018 14:25:01 GMT -6
Post by kjs on Sept 19, 2018 14:25:01 GMT -6
Agree there are good people and bad people all over the world -- and neither race, religion, politics ... can successfully point them out.
Rumors abound of how various people achieved their money.... even heard instance where one person -- bank-rolled both sides of a conflict -- simply so they could be on the winning side.
I would say I vast majority of those -- are simply jealous musings ... that if their ancestors would have done X, Y or Z .... they would have boats full of money as well.
but many (dare I say most) people spreading rumors / speculation of what "happened" at various times -- has some type angle they are trying to achieve.
For example -- even today some say the Jewish Holocaust never happened -- even though several veterans are still alive and will testify that these event happened. Around 6 million Jews were put to death and those still alive and were rescued were around another million.
Yet, some claim say it never happened -- that it is Zionist Myth.....
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 21, 2018 12:03:31 GMT -6
via mobile
kjs likes this
Post by watchmanjim on Sept 21, 2018 12:03:31 GMT -6
The Revelation verses are a potential sticky point for a lot of people. The big question is: when Revelation says "those who say they are Jews, and are not," then what does it mean?
People who hate Jews are quick to pounce on these verses as proof that those claiming to be Jews today are actually masquerading imposters and have no claim to the land of Israel or the heritage of the Biblical promises to Israel. These caustic skeptics, when pinned down, are usually forced to assert one of 2 things:
1. The real Jews who stand to inherit the promises of the Bible for their nation are still "out there somewhere" and are displaced by the current "masquerading Jews."
Or
2. God has cut off Israel forever, and all physical descendents of Israel have lost the promises God made to them.
There are multiple variations and complications of these two opinions, but when discussing the issue it helps to determine which of these views your antagonist believes. Get him to assert one of these two opinions, and it is fairly easy to refute either one. If your opponent offers arguments from both opinions, you can tell he is not being intellectually honest because the two views negate the impact of each other. If these aren't true Jews and there are no promises for true Jews, then "at this point what difference does it make?"
These anti-zionists, in this case, seem to think that a single rogue ethnic group can so scourge the world as to be dangerous and tyrannical to all through their conniving ambitious pretensions. This is simply racism at its worst. The Bible, and especially the New Testament, is clear that Christians are to love and evangelize ALL nations regardless of who they are. Hating an ethnic group does not fit with Christ's clear teaching.
In my experience, anybody out there who brings up the term zionist in casual discussion has usually already dismissed as irrelevant huge portions of the Word of God. The use of the term usually indicates a whole philosophy of hatred and racism against Jews.
I realize in a forum like this, bringing it up for discussion does not indicate that the person who first mentions it has that mindset. In this thread it was brought up for clarification and discussion, and i believe, rightfully so. It is a matter of confusion and division for many in our world today and needs to be better understood.
|
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Sept 25, 2018 14:38:01 GMT -6
The Revelation verses are a potential sticky point for a lot of people. The big question is: when Revelation says "those who say they are Jews, and are not," then what does it mean? People who hate Jews are quick to pounce on these verses as proof that those claiming to be Jews today are actually masquerading imposters and have no claim to the land of Israel or the heritage of the Biblical promises to Israel. These caustic skeptics, when pinned down, are usually forced to assert one of 2 things: 1. The real Jews who stand to inherit the promises of the Bible for their nation are still "out there somewhere" and are displaced by the current "masquerading Jews." Or 2. God has cut off Israel forever, and all physical descendents of Israel have lost the promises God made to them. Your point number two -- needs discussed (not necessarily your point of view, just using it)
In my own thoughts God does NOT Lie. God keeps ALL his promises. So we know for a fact God swore BY HIMSELF when He made the covenant with Abraham (since He knew Abraham nor his decedents) could keep their portion of it. So the only way God could / would cut of Israel is IF and ONLY IF God would break His own covenant..... Which I know for a FACT -- God would do no such thing!!
Point number one -- There are TOO MANY DNA tests "proving" ancestor(s) out there now -- so they "are real Jews" or more to the point real Israelis --
So it is just people trying to "stir the pot"........
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 26, 2018 9:32:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by watchmanjim on Sept 26, 2018 9:32:51 GMT -6
Yes, exactly. :-)
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 26, 2018 11:46:42 GMT -6
Post by stormyknight on Sept 26, 2018 11:46:42 GMT -6
I guess the reason I thought of those European families as "those who say they are Jews, and are not", was because I compared them to those who say they are Christian, but don't follow Jesus Christ, essentially breaking the commandment against taking the Lord's name in vain. I saw it as they may say they are Jews, but have no interest in moving back to Israel and would rather control it's affairs, and anyone else for that matter, from afar. Do you get what I mean? Like, "I'm of Jewish decent, but I'm not moving back to the homeland. I don't want to be one of 'those' people. But I should have a say in what goes on there." They may be of Jewish decent, but God prunes the branches as He sees fit, right? As far as Zionist, I assumed that was someone, whether Jew or Gentile, who was zealous(to a fault?) for the return of the Messiah. Isn't Zion synonymous with the New Jerusalem? I know it's one of the hills of Jerusalem.
So, who are "those who say they are Jews, and are not"? Please educate me! I'm a noob when it comes to 'who's who'.
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 26, 2018 13:03:30 GMT -6
Post by kjs on Sept 26, 2018 13:03:30 GMT -6
I guess the reason I thought of those European families as "those who say they are Jews, and are not", was because I compared them to those who say they are Christian, but don't follow Jesus Christ, essentially breaking the commandment against taking the Lord's name in vain. I saw it as they may say they are Jews, but have no interest in moving back to Israel and would rather control it's affairs, and anyone else for that matter, from afar. Do you get what I mean? Like, "I'm of Jewish decent, but I'm not moving back to the homeland. I don't want to be one of 'those' people. But I should have a say in what goes on there." They may be of Jewish decent, but God prunes the branches as He sees fit, right? As far as Zionist, I assumed that was someone, whether Jew or Gentile, who was zealous(to a fault?) for the return of the Messiah. Isn't Zion synonymous with the New Jerusalem? I know it's one of the hills of Jerusalem.
So, who are "those who say they are Jews, and are not"? Please educate me! I'm a noob when it comes to 'who's who'.
Well first let us look at the complete verse...
Revelation 3:9 (CJB) Here, I will give you some from the synagogue of the Adversary, those who call themselves Jews but aren't - on the contrary, they are lying - see, I will cause them to come and prostrate themselves at your feet, and they will know that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9 (CSB) Take note! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews and are not, but are lying-note this-I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9 (CEB) Because of this I will make the people from Satan's synagogue (who say they are Jews and really aren't, but are lying)—I will make them come and bow down at your feet and realize that I have loved you.
WHOEVER these liars are -- they will be coming before the "true Jews" who are LOVED by God and falling at their feet.....
Are these really Jews or only "talkers" .........
|
|
|
|
Zionist
Sept 26, 2018 16:50:31 GMT -6
Post by klb on Sept 26, 2018 16:50:31 GMT -6
Very interesting - I wonder if we have any idea who might be lying about being Jewish. There would have to be something to gain from it, right? I've always wondered who was being talked about in these verses.
|
|
I know when most people use it that it sounds like a bad word. I think they don't understand the true meaning. 
