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Post by boraddict on Jun 6, 2018 11:31:17 GMT -6
Thank you Dave.
1) Revelation Chapters 15 and 16 are chronological. Thus the victory over the beast (rapture) in Verse 15:2 occurs before the "Euphrates / kings of the east" in Verse 16:12.
2) Revelation Chapters 7 thru 9 are chronological. Thus the marriage (rapture) in Chapter 7 occurs before the "Euphrates (the third of four judgments, third of four angels) / was loosed" in Verses 9:14-15. Notice the "third" that is stressed in these verses as well as Verses 8:7-12. It is the third of the four; thus, two have preceded the third. The second of these is at Verses 9:1-12 (the first woe), and the first of the four is at Verse 7:1. I reference this because the "cause" that begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast; the first of four judgments; the first of four angels; the first of the four horsemen. Thus, John has substituted "angels" and "horsemen" for "judgments" in which one judgment; the first, is at Verse 7:1, and three "woes" (judgments) remain beginning at Verse 9:1. Thus, "the kings of the east" in its larger application pertains to God's judgment.
The first judgment involves the earth being subdued and it is here that the rapture takes place (Rev. 15:2, Chapter 7). This is also referenced as the fourth of the four horsemen.
The second judgment continues as the first woe (Verses 9:1-12). It is here that the beast has risen (Rev. 13) and taken over the earth. This is referenced as the third of the four horsemen.
The third judgment, the big one that is so very important, is the second woe at Verses 9:13-21. Here the beast is put down as referenced in Chapter 19 and is the second of the four horsemen.
The fourth judgment is the ending salvo. It is here that the dead rise and this is referenced as the first of the four horsemen.
The four angels of Chapter 8 are also metaphorical representations of the four judgments. The first angel represents the fourth judgment, the second the third and so forth. Notice that the third angel (Rev. 8:10-11) is the second judgment (Rev. 9:1-12). A combined summary is as follows:
1st Judgment, 4th horsemen, 4th angel, the Chapter 7 rapture
2nd Judgment, 3rd horsemen, 3rd angel, the first woe
3rd Judgment, 2nd horsemen, 2nd angel, the second woe
4th Judgment, 1st horsemen, 1st angel, the third woe
3) It is in reference to this first judgment that my previous post applies as follows:
Just an interesting observation:
1) Matt. 24:27 links to Rev. 7:2 via the phrase "the east."
Thus, "the lightening" in Matt. 24:27 is "the angel having the seal of the living God" in Rev. 7:2.
As such, Matt. 24:27 reads: "For as "the angel having the seal of the living God" cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Thus it appears that there are two events, or, one event stated twice. The first event is referenced as "a carcase" in Matt. 24:28, and the second event is referenced as "the eagles."
Thus, Matt. 24:28 reads: "For wheresoever "the angel having the seal of the living God" is, there will the "Son of man be" gathered together.
2) Next is the phrase "four winds" linking Matt. 24:31 to Rev. 7:1.
Since the above two links connect Matt. 24 and Rev. 7 together, then the gathering of the twelve tribes (rapture) in Rev. 7 is at Matt. 24:27-31.
Since "the end" (Matt. 24:14) is at Matt. 24:15-21, then the rapture must occur at Verses 24:3-14 (the carcase) and is restated at Matt. 24:27-31
4) Thus, the first judgment as well as the rapture takes place at Matt. 24:3-14. The question then becomes, is the desolation (Matt. 24:15) at the end of the first judgment, or at the end of the seven years.
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 6, 2018 18:11:00 GMT -6
Thank you Dave. 1) Revelation Chapters 15 and 16 are chronological. Thus the victory over the beast (rapture) in Verse 15:2 occurs before the "Euphrates / kings of the east" in Verse 16:12. 2) Revelation Chapters 7 thru 9 are chronological. Thus the marriage (rapture) in Chapter 7 occurs before the "Euphrates (the third of four judgments, third of four angels) / was loosed" in Verses 9:14-15. Notice the "third" that is stressed in these verses as well as Verses 8:7-12. It is the third of the four; thus, two have preceded the third. The second of these is at Verses 9:1-12 (the first woe), and the first of the four is at Verse 7:1. I reference this because the "cause" that begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast; the first of four judgments; the first of four angels; the first of the four horsemen. Thus, John has substituted "angels" and "horsemen" for "judgments" in which one judgment; the first, is at Verse 7:1, and three "woes" (judgments) remain beginning at Verse 9:1. Thus, "the kings of the east" in its larger application pertains to God's judgment. The first judgment involves the earth being subdued and it is here that the rapture takes place (Rev. 15:2, Chapter 7). This is also referenced as the fourth of the four horsemen. The second judgment continues as the first woe (Verses 9:1-12). It is here that the beast has risen (Rev. 13) and taken over the earth. This is referenced as the third of the four horsemen. The third judgment, the big one that is so very important, is the second woe at Verses 9:13-21. Here the beast is put down as referenced in Chapter 19 and is the second of the four horsemen. The fourth judgment is the ending salvo. It is here that the dead rise and this is referenced as the first of the four horsemen. The four angels of Chapter 8 are also metaphorical representations of the four judgments. The first angel represents the fourth judgment, the second the third and so forth. Notice that the third angel (Rev. 8:10-11) is the second judgment (Rev. 9:1-12). A combined summary is as follows: 1st Judgment, 4th horsemen, 4th angel, the Chapter 7 rapture 2nd Judgment, 3rd horsemen, 3rd angel, the first woe 3rd Judgment, 2nd horsemen, 2nd angel, the second woe 4th Judgment, 1st horsemen, 1st angel, the third woe 3) It is in reference to this first judgment that my previous post applies as follows: Just an interesting observation:
1) Matt. 24:27 links to Rev. 7:2 via the phrase "the east."
Thus, "the lightening" in Matt. 24:27 is "the angel having the seal of the living God" in Rev. 7:2.
As such, Matt. 24:27 reads: "For as "the angel having the seal of the living God" cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Thus it appears that there are two events, or, one event stated twice. The first event is referenced as "a carcase" in Matt. 24:28, and the second event is referenced as "the eagles."
Thus, Matt. 24:28 reads: "For wheresoever "the angel having the seal of the living God" is, there will the "Son of man be" gathered together.
2) Next is the phrase "four winds" linking Matt. 24:31 to Rev. 7:1.
Since the above two links connect Matt. 24 and Rev. 7 together, then the gathering of the twelve tribes (rapture) in Rev. 7 is at Matt. 24:27-31.
Since "the end" (Matt. 24:14) is at Matt. 24:15-21, then the rapture must occur at Verses 24:3-14 (the carcase) and is restated at Matt. 24:27-31
4) Thus, the first judgment as well as the rapture takes place at Matt. 24:3-14. The question then becomes, is the desolation (Matt. 24:15) at the end of the first judgment, or at the end of the seven years. And you as well. It looks like you've taken a pretty Big Bite out of the little Book here Boraddict, so i would worry that either of us would be in danger of causing a discombobulation in not only the chronology of Revelation, but also in the OP of the thread. I was going to ask which of the 3-14 Verses of Matt. 24 you thought the rapture was in, as a method of avoiding telling you that i don't think that Revelation Chapters 7 thru 9 are completely chronological. It sounds like you're saying the phrase "four winds" links Matt. 24:31 to Rev. 7:1. And so that connection of Matt. 24 and Rev. 7 together, then suggests the gathering of the twelve tribes (rapture) in Rev. 7, is the equivalent to Matthew's gathering of His elect from the four winds of heaven in verses 27-31. And since "the end" is at Matt. 24:14, it forces the rapture to occur north of that somewhere in Verses 3 through 14. Is that right? Interesting logic. But it looks to me like Revelation 7 spans more than all of the prophetic time that chapters 8 AND 9 contain. It would seem to overlay both of the two chapters that follow it. Revelation 7 is showing two different scenes. The first scene begins before chapter 8, the second scene begins after chapter 9 is finished. The first scene is drawing attention to the 144,000 being sealed just before the tribulation of chapter 8 can begin: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” The second scene describes the people from every nation, a great multitude that no one could number, which the 144,000 are apparently responsible for bringing in during the tribulation. A tribulation that, in my estimate, would continue a bit past the end of chapter 9. “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
And this part is beautiful: I reference this because the "cause" that begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast; the first of four judgments; the first of four angels; the first of the four horsemen. I had to slice it out of there. You might not be right about the actual judgement itself, but you seem to have found the cause. The cause is be-cause. Because of the signs that he was given power to do on behalf of the composite beast. The cause is the enabler. And the cause is the catalyst. Or as you so accurately put it: "begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast. So that he even causes fire to fall in the presence of men. The Antichrist "CAUSES" the signs. He's given the POWER to do them, but he is the cause of them. "And it performed great signs, even CAUSING fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.I think this is Paul's sudden destruction, and the thing Jesus was talking about in Luke 17 on the day that Lot left out from Sodom "fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. When the world's survivors see the destruction of just the first trumpet alone, they will know that the God of the Bible is back. The Son of Man will be revealed in this way through His actions. Even the NASA scientists will be trying to figure out what it was that made God so angry. When the fire falls from Heaven, it will burn up one third of the earth. The Antichrist causes this initial outbreak of God's Wrath. Because of the signs he is given power to do on behalf of the composite beast. He gives his authority to the composite beast and uses that first beast as a tool or a mechanism to trigger the Wrath of God. But this is not the undiluted wrath to come, this wrath is mixed with mercy, mixed with blood. Is blood not a good symbol for mercy? We voted the thing in, we the people. The many peoples and nations and tongues. This is the "sea" that the composite beast rises from. The people want free streaming pornography, the people want to be free to have abortions and the people want to be free to change their sexual orientation. They cast their popular vote. Then: "And there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up Then: "Something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. Then: "A great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter. Then: "A third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night. By the time a third of the sun goes dark, the world's survivors will be going insane. Men's hearts will be failing them for fear and for terror of what is coming on the world. And on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, In the initial outbreak of the fire that fell, governments from around the world will be gone, wiped out in a day. The Capitol locations where the composite beast was successful in setting up the transgressive laws, these places were hit the hardest. This is how the ten kings rise up virtually overnight. There won't be anything to stop them. There's no UN or financial collapse that could be responsible for this. It had to be something bigger than these things. This was also not a random meteor shower, God's Wrath was directed at specific places and at specific people. Think about this, would Jesus tell us to flee to the mountains, flee to the wilderness, and then turn around and hit our wilderness locations with fire? No way. The wrath will be directed. Then the Antichrist is finally revealed at the fifth trumpet. AND:
"Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.When the man of sin is revealed at the 5th trumpet, he will claim responsibility for the first four trumpets, the signs that he was given power to do ON BEHALF of the composite beast, ON BEHALF of the cooperating governments of the world. He will deceive the inhabitants of the earth. He will demand worship. The majority of the world's survivors will do whatever he says in an attempt to placate him. They will think they are doing God a favor. They will think that if they DO NOT follow what this false prophet says, God is going to kill us all, and more judgements will come. This ill fated attempt to appease God will probably turn out to be what we now know as the mark of the beast. We will remember Jesus' Word: "Then if any man shall say to you, See, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.The majority of the world's survivors are going to blame us, the true Christians, for the devastation that the planet has suffered. The time will have finally come when they will think they are doing God a favor by killing us. When this begins, it could go down very fast, just a bit longer in duration than the five month season of the locust. But it will be during a time of emergency, an hour of trial, like the world has never seen before, not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. But for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Follow the Lamb, Wherever He goes.  |
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Post by boraddict on Jun 6, 2018 21:23:04 GMT -6
Thank you Dave. Your understanding of the events is very good.
Some time ago I thought the chapter (Matt. 24) was out of order with the end as referenced in Matt: 24:13-14 followed by Daniel's prophecy (Matt. 24:15-22). However, it appears that the chapter is not out of order but the story within the chapter is retold; perhaps more than once with several points of interest.
It is this link between Verses 24:3-14 and 24:25-28 that causes me to think that the rapture contained within Verses 24:27-28 also exists in Verses 24:3-14. The link is the retelling of the story (Verses 3-14) at Verses 24:25-28.
Do you see the story being retold as I have stated above?
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 7, 2018 21:33:44 GMT -6
And you as well. Your understanding of the events is very good. Maybe. Or so it should be. I've recently graduated to the level of Prophecy Guru, like you. It look took me long enough. I'm still working on the spelling part. Some time ago I thought the chapter (Matt. 24) was out of order with the end as referenced in Matt: 24:13-14 followed by Daniel's prophecy (Matt. 24:15-22). However, it appears that the chapter is not out of order but the story within the chapter is retold; perhaps more than once with several points of interest. That's how i would put it too. It's not out of order. I wouldn't say that. It's more like, as you say the story within the chapter is retold, as in a case of repetition and enlargement. I can count five sections. The ESV seems to do a good job of inserting those headers where they fit the best. Matthew 24 has always been my favorite. It's like you're at the end of a long day where Jesus was teaching in the Temple since early in the morning when all the people came to hear Him.. And then Jesus was leaving the Temple and was walking away. Down the Temple mount, across the Kidron Valley and up to the mount called Olivet. It remains a 25 minute walk to this very day, the compass of a Sabbath Day's journey. At night He lodged on the mount called Olivet. The were no Scribes, no Pharisees hanging around there. No rich people and no poor widow putting money into the treasury. It must have been dark by then. I wonder if they had a campfire? Only four disciples came to Him privately and asked. I wonder if the other ones fell asleep? I feel like i was there, or i wish i was there. I would have been on the edge of my seat. Maybe they will have it on tape and can play it again for us someday. It is this link between Verses 24:3-14 and 24:25-28 that causes me to think that the rapture contained within Verses 24:27-28 also exists in Verses 24:3-14. The link is the retelling of the story (Verses 3-14) at Verses 24:25-28. Do you see the story being retold as I have stated above? The link that causes me to think. I'll answer yes. In each of the five sections i see, each one can have a resurrection. Your corpses can be one of them. One shall be taken, one shall be left. Taken where? Where the vultures gather, there the corpse will be. I think all of Mathew 24 is for our modern era. As soon as He sat down and began to speak, He was talking about the 20th century. WW1, WW2, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, but the end was not yet. The beginning of sorrows, the tribulation, the Gospel preached and then the end will come. And then He backspaces, and starts up again to show us an important indicator to watch for. And the story within the chapter is retold from another point within the same narrative, but with greater detail at the biggie sign, the prophet Daniel's 1290 day abomination of desolation. “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), The Fig Tree generation is the best example though. I can count where i think He's talking four times of the end of our end time tribulation, and then He stops, backspaces again, and zeros in on 1948. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh. The generation that sees this will not pass away until ALL is fulfilled. And ALL fulfilled would also include another instance of the rapture. Luke said when you see the fig tree and ALL the trees. "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. Between 1943 and 1952, all of the coun-trees surrounding Israel also became nations again after many years in hyber-nation. All within five years of the Fig-Tree. Starting from the top and continuing clockwise: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. 
Lebanon (1943)
Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French separated out the region of Lebanon in 1920, and granted this area independence in 1943. Syria (1946)
Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French administered the area as Syria until granting it independence in 1946. Jordan (1946)
Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950. Egypt (1952)
Partially independent from the UK in 1922, Egypt acquired full sovereignty with the overthrow of the British-backed monarchy in 1952. Israel (1948)
Following World War II, Britain withdrew from its mandate of Palestine, and the UN proposed partitioning the area into Arab and Jewish states, an arrangement rejected by the Arabs. Nonetheless, an Israeli state was declared in 1948 and Israel subsequently defeated the Arab armies in a series of wars that did not end deep tensions between the two sides. From the CIA World Fact Book: www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/wfbExt/region_mde.html(Click the name of the country then click "introduction") I don't think this was a coincidence. I think the Bible writers knew that the circumstances which would cause the Fig Tree to sprout leaves, would also cause Israel's neighbors to come out in leaf too. All between the years 1943 and 1952, all within five years of the birth of The Fig Tree in 1948. These trees were not even nations before WW1 they were just parts of the Ottoman Empire and then parts of the British Empire or the French. See for yourselves and know that the summer is almost here. "And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. "Then all the trees of the woods will rejoice before the Lord. For He is coming, For He is coming to judge the earth PS, I had so much trouble writing this note, that i thought the composite beast might be sabotaging my plugin container. Either that or they were trying to transfer me down to the "shoutbox" area, where i can't post pictures. That would be a Draconian course of action. That would put a dent in my style.  Invalid request token / possible request forgery (error 4). If you received this message in error, please go back, refresh, and try again. I lost the whole note, And there will be weeping. |
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Post by venge on Jun 8, 2018 4:30:27 GMT -6
Thank you Dave. 1) Revelation Chapters 15 and 16 are chronological. Thus the victory over the beast (rapture) in Verse 15:2 occurs before the "Euphrates / kings of the east" in Verse 16:12. 2) Revelation Chapters 7 thru 9 are chronological. Thus the marriage (rapture) in Chapter 7 occurs before the "Euphrates (the third of four judgments, third of four angels) / was loosed" in Verses 9:14-15. Notice the "third" that is stressed in these verses as well as Verses 8:7-12. It is the third of the four; thus, two have preceded the third. The second of these is at Verses 9:1-12 (the first woe), and the first of the four is at Verse 7:1. I reference this because the "cause" that begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast; the first of four judgments; the first of four angels; the first of the four horsemen. Thus, John has substituted "angels" and "horsemen" for "judgments" in which one judgment; the first, is at Verse 7:1, and three "woes" (judgments) remain beginning at Verse 9:1. Thus, "the kings of the east" in its larger application pertains to God's judgment. The first judgment involves the earth being subdued and it is here that the rapture takes place (Rev. 15:2, Chapter 7). This is also referenced as the fourth of the four horsemen. The second judgment continues as the first woe (Verses 9:1-12). It is here that the beast has risen (Rev. 13) and taken over the earth. This is referenced as the third of the four horsemen. The third judgment, the big one that is so very important, is the second woe at Verses 9:13-21. Here the beast is put down as referenced in Chapter 19 and is the second of the four horsemen. The fourth judgment is the ending salvo. It is here that the dead rise and this is referenced as the first of the four horsemen. The four angels of Chapter 8 are also metaphorical representations of the four judgments. The first angel represents the fourth judgment, the second the third and so forth. Notice that the third angel (Rev. 8:10-11) is the second judgment (Rev. 9:1-12). A combined summary is as follows: 1st Judgment, 4th horsemen, 4th angel, the Chapter 7 rapture 2nd Judgment, 3rd horsemen, 3rd angel, the first woe 3rd Judgment, 2nd horsemen, 2nd angel, the second woe 4th Judgment, 1st horsemen, 1st angel, the third woe 3) It is in reference to this first judgment that my previous post applies as follows: Just an interesting observation:
1) Matt. 24:27 links to Rev. 7:2 via the phrase "the east."
Thus, "the lightening" in Matt. 24:27 is "the angel having the seal of the living God" in Rev. 7:2.
As such, Matt. 24:27 reads: "For as "the angel having the seal of the living God" cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Thus it appears that there are two events, or, one event stated twice. The first event is referenced as "a carcase" in Matt. 24:28, and the second event is referenced as "the eagles."
Thus, Matt. 24:28 reads: "For wheresoever "the angel having the seal of the living God" is, there will the "Son of man be" gathered together.
2) Next is the phrase "four winds" linking Matt. 24:31 to Rev. 7:1.
Since the above two links connect Matt. 24 and Rev. 7 together, then the gathering of the twelve tribes (rapture) in Rev. 7 is at Matt. 24:27-31.
Since "the end" (Matt. 24:14) is at Matt. 24:15-21, then the rapture must occur at Verses 24:3-14 (the carcase) and is restated at Matt. 24:27-31
4) Thus, the first judgment as well as the rapture takes place at Matt. 24:3-14. The question then becomes, is the desolation (Matt. 24:15) at the end of the first judgment, or at the end of the seven years. And you as well. It looks like you've taken a pretty Big Bite out of the little Book here Boraddict, so i would worry that either of us would be in danger of causing a discombobulation in not only the chronology of Revelation, but also in the OP of the thread. I was going to ask which of the 3-14 Verses of Matt. 24 you thought the rapture was in, as a method of avoiding telling you that i don't think that Revelation Chapters 7 thru 9 are completely chronological. It sounds like you're saying the phrase "four winds" links Matt. 24:31 to Rev. 7:1. And so that connection of Matt. 24 and Rev. 7 together, then suggests the gathering of the twelve tribes (rapture) in Rev. 7, is the equivalent to Matthew's gathering of His elect from the four winds of heaven in verses 27-31. And since "the end" is at Matt. 24:14, it forces the rapture to occur north of that somewhere in Verses 3 through 14. Is that right? Interesting logic. But it looks to me like Revelation 7 spans more than all of the prophetic time that chapters 8 AND 9 contain. It would seem to overlay both of the two chapters that follow it. Revelation 7 is showing two different scenes. The first scene begins before chapter 8, the second scene begins after chapter 9 is finished. The first scene is drawing attention to the 144,000 being sealed just before the tribulation of chapter 8 can begin: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” The second scene describes the people from every nation, a great multitude that no one could number, which the 144,000 are apparently responsible for bringing in during the tribulation. A tribulation that, in my estimate, would continue a bit past the end of chapter 9. “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
And this part is beautiful: I reference this because the "cause" that begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast; the first of four judgments; the first of four angels; the first of the four horsemen. I had to slice it out of there. You might not be right about the actual judgement itself, but you seem to have found the cause. The cause is be-cause. Because of the signs that he was given power to do on behalf of the composite beast. The cause is the enabler. And the cause is the catalyst. Or as you so accurately put it: "begins the ball rolling is the first judgment that causes the rise of the beast. So that he even causes fire to fall in the presence of men. The Antichrist "CAUSES" the signs. He's given the POWER to do them, but he is the cause of them. "And it performed great signs, even CAUSING fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.I think this is Paul's sudden destruction, and the thing Jesus was talking about in Luke 17 on the day that Lot left out from Sodom "fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. When the world's survivors see the destruction of just the first trumpet alone, they will know that the God of the Bible is back. The Son of Man will be revealed in this way through His actions. Even the NASA scientists will be trying to figure out what it was that made God so angry. When the fire falls from Heaven, it will burn up one third of the earth. The Antichrist causes this initial outbreak of God's Wrath. Because of the signs he is given power to do on behalf of the composite beast. He gives his authority to the composite beast and uses that first beast as a tool or a mechanism to trigger the Wrath of God. But this is not the undiluted wrath to come, this wrath is mixed with mercy, mixed with blood. Is blood not a good symbol for mercy? We voted the thing in, we the people. The many peoples and nations and tongues. This is the "sea" that the composite beast rises from. The people want free streaming pornography, the people want to be free to have abortions and the people want to be free to change their sexual orientation. They cast their popular vote. Then: "And there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up Then: "Something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. Then: "A great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter. Then: "A third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night. By the time a third of the sun goes dark, the world's survivors will be going insane. Men's hearts will be failing them for fear and for terror of what is coming on the world. And on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, In the initial outbreak of the fire that fell, governments from around the world will be gone, wiped out in a day. The Capitol locations where the composite beast was successful in setting up the transgressive laws, these places were hit the hardest. This is how the ten kings rise up virtually overnight. There won't be anything to stop them. There's no UN or financial collapse that could be responsible for this. It had to be something bigger than these things. This was also not a random meteor shower, God's Wrath was directed at specific places and at specific people. Think about this, would Jesus tell us to flee to the mountains, flee to the wilderness, and then turn around and hit our wilderness locations with fire? No way. The wrath will be directed. Then the Antichrist is finally revealed at the fifth trumpet. AND:
"Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.When the man of sin is revealed at the 5th trumpet, he will claim responsibility for the first four trumpets, the signs that he was given power to do ON BEHALF of the composite beast, ON BEHALF of the cooperating governments of the world. He will deceive the inhabitants of the earth. He will demand worship. The majority of the world's survivors will do whatever he says in an attempt to placate him. They will think they are doing God a favor. They will think that if they DO NOT follow what this false prophet says, God is going to kill us all, and more judgements will come. This ill fated attempt to appease God will probably turn out to be what we now know as the mark of the beast. We will remember Jesus' Word: "Then if any man shall say to you, See, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.The majority of the world's survivors are going to blame us, the true Christians, for the devastation that the planet has suffered. The time will have finally come when they will think they are doing God a favor by killing us. When this begins, it could go down very fast, just a bit longer in duration than the five month season of the locust. But it will be during a time of emergency, an hour of trial, like the world has never seen before, not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. But for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Follow the Lamb, Wherever He goes. Why do you think the Antichrist is revealed during the 5th Trumpet and not before? Do you think the rapture happens in the Trumpets? Why would he be revealed in a time of wrath Edit: 8:07am You also said the AC also does the signs (previous trumpets). But the angels blow the trumpets, not the AC. |
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Post by boraddict on Jun 8, 2018 16:14:45 GMT -6
Dave, your last post was absolutely beautiful. Thank you.
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 9, 2018 6:39:54 GMT -6
Why do you think the Antichrist is revealed during the 5th Trumpet and not before? Because before that, he's locked up in the abyss. And also, i think we might already be into his 42 months of authority, but he's not yet "revealed". Do you think the rapture happens in the Trumpets? I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I bet it happens before the vials. The vial wrath is without mixture, The bowls are undiluted. Why would he be revealed in a time of wrath Because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. I've got to pull a couple couplets on you venge, some Hebrew Couplets. The Hebrew Couplet."Lift up your heads, you gates; be lifted up, you ancient doors, that the King of glory may come in. - Psalm 24: Poetic Parallelism. This is talking about the same thing. The "you gates", and the "you ancient doors" are the same things. It's just a poetic way of stating that the gates are ancient doors. Easy, right? Gabriel is doing the same thing here when he's talking to Daniel in chapter 8:19. He said: "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. In this case "the time of wrath" and "the appointed time of the end" is the same thing. It's a couplet. It's Gabriel's way of saying that the appointed time of the end IS the time of wrath. I think we are in that time right now, the time of wrath, the appointed time of the end. But God has got different kinds of wrath, different levels of wrath. Paul said we are not appointed to wrath. But he continues on to say: "but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. So you know, i know, he's not talking about all wrath of any kind, but of a very specific type of wrath, being delivered from the wrath to come, the final eternal wrath at judgement day. - Eternal Wrath – Eternal separation from God – the final judgment for those who reject Christ. This is going on now for those dead, and will go on into the infinite future.
- Eschatological Wrath – The outpouring of God’s judgment during the “last days.” (Revelation 6-19). This wrath is yet to come.
- Calamitous Wrath – Such interventions as the Noahic Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.
- Consequential Wrath – the natural results of bad choices. Whatever we sow, we reap. This reaping, though passive on God’s part, it still seen as God’s judgment, and wrath, on sin.
- The Wrath of Abandonment – this is what MacArthur says is being described in Romans 1, and how God judges individuals, groups, and nations. And he says America is already there.
www.wholereason.com/2007/06/the-wrath-of-god-i-five-types-of-divine-anger.htmlI googled: The wrath of abandonment. God gave them over. God gave them over. God gave them over. I wonder if Paul was drawing from Psalm 81: “But my people did not listen to my voice; Israel would not submit to me. "So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels. Three times Paul used the phrase that God used in Psalms. And God "gave them over", to a reprobate mind. That smells like a strong delusion, so that they would believe the lie. I think we're in that same phase as Paul was speaking to in Romans 1. At the latter end of their kingdom, when rebels have become completely wicked, waiting for their stern faced king. I recommend this John MacArthur sermon, excellent material. www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-314/when-god-abandons-a-nationEdit: 8:07am You also said the AC also does the signs (previous trumpets). But the angels blow the trumpets, not the AC. I did? Or did i. I said: The Antichrist "CAUSES" the signs. He's given the POWER to do them, but he is the cause of them. "And it performed great signs, even CAUSING fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. The Antichrist causes this initial outbreak of God's Wrath. Because of the signs he is given power to do on behalf of the composite beast. He gives his authority to the composite beast and uses that first beast as a tool or a mechanism to trigger the Wrath of God. But this is not the undiluted wrath to come, this wrath is mixed with mercy, mixed with blood. Is blood not a good symbol for mercy? I had to think about this one again before i answered. Some versions say he "causes" the fire, some versions say he "makes" the fire come down from heaven. If i took a running leap off of the Empire State building, did God send His Law of gravity to kill me when i hit the ground, or did i engage that Law, or CAUSE that Law to fall on me? Consequential wrath – the natural results of bad choices. Whatever we sow, we reap. This is one of those issues i think we need to measure carefully in our minds, and use our own neurotransmitters. And yes, i think the second beast is the cause of the trumpets. And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. I don't think this is going to be like the prophecy book writers told us it would be. Like some guy traveling around from town to town calling columns of fire to fall to earth like a magic show. That would get old fast, after a dozen major cities. I think that the fire that he "causes" or "makes" to fall is the fire of trumpet number one. And all the major cities would be hit all at once on the same day. "And there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up I also don't think this is something we here have to worry about. I think this part of the wrath will only fall on the sons of disobedience, and THEY will not escape. For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience. I don't think this is going to be a regular meteor that breaks up in the atmosphere and rains down fiery hail willy nilly. The man of sin might be the cause of it, but it ultimately is delivered by God, so i'm sure that it will not fall haphazardly. Two might be sleeping in bed, one will be taken, one will be left kind of thing. Although, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to test this theory by renting an apartment over a tattoo parlor, or over a gay bar downtown. Remember Lots wife. This sounds like a case of what comes first, the chicken or the egg. Yes, the seven angels who had been given the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. But why were they given the seven trumpets in the first place? Because the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people. But who is the root cause of this? Who is the trigger man? Who is the instigator? Why did the people get so ungodly and wicked at this time now? Are they of their father the devil? Ultimately it's the dragon that's behind this. That's the Devil right? The dragon gives his power, and his throne and his great authority to the composite beast, the first beast. Even before he's revealed, he's working behind the scenes in the beginning, in the first half of Revelation 13, his 42 months of authority, to influence the apostasy, the falling away from the truth. And this ultimately is going to trigger the first outbreak of God's destructive wrath. I'm saying these are the signs he CAUSES, these are the great signs he is given the power to do of behalf of, or in the presence of, the composite beast. The Antichrist does not have the power in and of himself to perform these signs. He CAUSES the signs, he is the reason for the signs. The Antichrist does not inherently poses the power to do these things. God is giving him the power to do these things by allowing him to have influenced humanity to finally bring us to the point where i think we are right now, where the falling away from God's ways has culminated. Talking about the composite beast and the lamb like beast is no fun. It gives me acid indigestion. "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; "For he founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters. Ultimate Couplet, Peaceful Sabbath. |
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 9, 2018 6:49:57 GMT -6
Dave, your last post was absolutely beautiful. Thank you. You are too kind boraddict, Thank you for reading. |
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Post by venge on Jun 9, 2018 13:12:12 GMT -6
Why do you think the Antichrist is revealed during the 5th Trumpet and not before? Because before that, he's locked up in the abyss. And also, i think we might already be into his 42 months of authority, but he's not yet "revealed". Do you think the rapture happens in the Trumpets? I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I bet it happens before the vials. The vial wrath is without mixture, The bowls are undiluted. Why would he be revealed in a time of wrath Because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. I've got to pull a couple couplets on you venge, some Hebrew Couplets. The Hebrew Couplet."Lift up your heads, you gates; be lifted up, you ancient doors, that the King of glory may come in. - Psalm 24: Poetic Parallelism. This is talking about the same thing. The "you gates", and the "you ancient doors" are the same things. It's just a poetic way of stating that the gates are ancient doors. Easy, right? Gabriel is doing the same thing here when he's talking to Daniel in chapter 8:19. He said: "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. In this case "the time of wrath" and "the appointed time of the end" is the same thing. It's a couplet. It's Gabriel's way of saying that the appointed time of the end IS the time of wrath. I think we are in that time right now, the time of wrath, the appointed time of the end. But God has got different kinds of wrath, different levels of wrath. Paul said we are not appointed to wrath. But he continues on to say: "but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. So you know, i know, he's not talking about all wrath of any kind, but of a very specific type of wrath, being delivered from the wrath to come, the final eternal wrath at judgement day. - Eternal Wrath – Eternal separation from God – the final judgment for those who reject Christ. This is going on now for those dead, and will go on into the infinite future.
- Eschatological Wrath – The outpouring of God’s judgment during the “last days.” (Revelation 6-19). This wrath is yet to come.
- Calamitous Wrath – Such interventions as the Noahic Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.
- Consequential Wrath – the natural results of bad choices. Whatever we sow, we reap. This reaping, though passive on God’s part, it still seen as God’s judgment, and wrath, on sin.
- The Wrath of Abandonment – this is what MacArthur says is being described in Romans 1, and how God judges individuals, groups, and nations. And he says America is already there.
www.wholereason.com/2007/06/the-wrath-of-god-i-five-types-of-divine-anger.htmlI googled: The wrath of abandonment. God gave them over. God gave them over. God gave them over. I wonder if Paul was drawing from Psalm 81: “But my people did not listen to my voice; Israel would not submit to me. "So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels. Three times Paul used the phrase that God used in Psalms. And God "gave them over", to a reprobate mind. That smells like a strong delusion, so that they would believe the lie. I think we're in that same phase as Paul was speaking to in Romans 1. At the latter end of their kingdom, when rebels have become completely wicked, waiting for their stern faced king. I recommend this John MacArthur sermon, excellent material. www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-314/when-god-abandons-a-nationEdit: 8:07am You also said the AC also does the signs (previous trumpets). But the angels blow the trumpets, not the AC. I did? Or did i. I said: The Antichrist "CAUSES" the signs. He's given the POWER to do them, but he is the cause of them. "And it performed great signs, even CAUSING fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. The Antichrist causes this initial outbreak of God's Wrath. Because of the signs he is given power to do on behalf of the composite beast. He gives his authority to the composite beast and uses that first beast as a tool or a mechanism to trigger the Wrath of God. But this is not the undiluted wrath to come, this wrath is mixed with mercy, mixed with blood. Is blood not a good symbol for mercy? I had to think about this one again before i answered. Some versions say he "causes" the fire, some versions say he "makes" the fire come down from heaven. If i took a running leap off of the Empire State building, did God send His Law of gravity to kill me when i hit the ground, or did i engage that Law, or CAUSE that Law to fall on me? Consequential wrath – the natural results of bad choices. Whatever we sow, we reap. This is one of those issues i think we need to measure carefully in our minds, and use our own neurotransmitters. And yes, i think the second beast is the cause of the trumpets. And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. I don't think this is going to be like the prophecy book writers told us it would be. Like some guy traveling around from town to town calling columns of fire to fall to earth like a magic show. That would get old fast, after a dozen major cities. I think that the fire that he "causes" or "makes" to fall is the fire of trumpet number one. And all the major cities would be hit all at once on the same day. "And there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up I also don't think this is something we here have to worry about. I think this part of the wrath will only fall on the sons of disobedience, and THEY will not escape. For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience. I don't think this is going to be a regular meteor that breaks up in the atmosphere and rains down fiery hail willy nilly. The man of sin might be the cause of it, but it ultimately is delivered by God, so i'm sure that it will not fall haphazardly. Two might be sleeping in bed, one will be taken, one will be left kind of thing. Although, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to test this theory by renting an apartment over a tattoo parlor, or over a gay bar downtown. Remember Lots wife. This sounds like a case of what comes first, the chicken or the egg. Yes, the seven angels who had been given the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. But why were they given the seven trumpets in the first place? Because the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people. But who is the root cause of this? Who is the trigger man? Who is the instigator? Why did the people get so ungodly and wicked at this time now? Are they of their father the devil? Ultimately it's the dragon that's behind this. That's the Devil right? The dragon gives his power, and his throne and his great authority to the composite beast, the first beast. Even before he's revealed, he's working behind the scenes in the beginning, in the first half of Revelation 13, his 42 months of authority, to influence the apostasy, the falling away from the truth. And this ultimately is going to trigger the first outbreak of God's destructive wrath. I'm saying these are the signs he CAUSES, these are the great signs he is given the power to do of behalf of, or in the presence of, the composite beast. The Antichrist does not have the power in and of himself to perform these signs. He CAUSES the signs, he is the reason for the signs. The Antichrist does not inherently poses the power to do these things. God is giving him the power to do these things by allowing him to have influenced humanity to finally bring us to the point where i think we are right now, where the falling away from God's ways has culminated. Talking about the composite beast and the lamb like beast is no fun. It gives me acid indigestion. "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; "For he founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters. Ultimate Couplet, Peaceful Sabbath.Where in scripture is the AC locked away in a abyss? Rev 20:3 says it is Satan that is bound Unless you are referring to Rev 9:11 But that is an angel, not the man of sin. Not the Antichrist. If you are insinuating that Abaddon is the man of sin, he is an angel. And if you are insinuating Abaddon is the beast of the sea...an angel is not a kingdom as per Daniel. If the Day of the Lord (the wrath we are not destined for) shall not come until the falling away and the man of sin is revealed. If we are to see the man of sin revealed, it could not be in the trumpets as they are God's wrath. Eeven 1 Thess 5 shows us, BUT! It doesn't say we wont be here. It says stay spiritually awake. Be prepared. Be warned. So how could the man of sin arise out of the abyss when the man of sin arises out of the earth via Daniel/Rev The antichrist is also a horn of the 4th kingdom that rises from the earth, not the sea. |
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Post by venge on Jun 9, 2018 13:27:51 GMT -6
I should also add, that I have problems accepting the AC not revealing till the 5th trumpet because in Daniel 11:31, the Antichrist does the following:
Here, he is on the scene. When we fast forward through all his attacks, we get to Chapter 12.
After the Antichrist is running around, after everything happens, then there will be Jacob's trouble. Christ says in Matthew 24:21,
We know that it must happen prior to the 6th seal. Therefore the AC is here during the seals and he is revealed because of Daniel 11:31. It is before the 6th seal because in Matthew 24:29 Jesus follows this passage with
Interestingly, it models the 6th seal. Rev 6:12
And in Matthew 24:30 it follows the 6th seal,
which is interesting because Rev 7:9 shows the rapture after the son of man comes
And it follows Daniel 12:1 when it says at the time of Jacob's trouble
Every person of every nation. Of every tribe. Of every language.
Therefore, the Antichrist must precede the 6th seal.
Edit: to Sum it up easier what I wrote. If the astral events are the 6th seal and Jesus said that happens after the tribulation, it backs up Daniel that says after that is the time of Jacobs trouble. But that time in Dan 12:1 happens AFTER the 11th horn is wrecking the earth in Chapter 11. We know it continues the sequence because in Chapter 12 it says "At that time". Therefore, the events look like:
1. 11th horn AC sets up AoD
2. 11th horn does X, Y and Z
3. Jacob's trouble
4. 6th seal
5. Rapture
6. Trumpets (wrath)
That is just following Daniel 11/12, Matthew 24 and Rev
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Post by davewatchman on Jun 9, 2018 17:28:01 GMT -6
Where in scripture is the AC locked away in a abyss? Rev 20:3 says it is Satan that is bound If an angel, a star from heaven, has to come all the way down from Heaven with the key to open the abyss, then it had to mean that the destroyer had been previously locked up there at some point. KJV say cast INTO the earth: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. But the really bad news is that, he's not alone. His angels were case out with him INTO the earth. So when he is revealed, his angels are coming with him out from the abyss. "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; Unless you are referring to Rev 9:11 But that is an angel, not the man of sin. Not the Antichrist. If you are insinuating that Abaddon is the man of sin, he is an angel. i am insinuating. There were only two men that were called "son of perdition". Paul used the phrase for our end time man of sin, and Jesus used it for Judas Iscariot, and just then SATAN entered into him. Perdition means destruction. Abaddon and Appolyon means destruction in two different languages, Hebrew and Greek. Abaddon is an angel KING of the abyss, the spirit world. A kingdom cannot be divided. They had as king over them the angel of the abyss. And if you are insinuating Abaddon is the beast of the sea...an angel is not a kingdom as per Daniel. I'm not insinuating that. The "beast of the sea", or the beast that rises up FROM the sea, is the beast i call the composite beast. This is not the man of sin, the man of sin is the second beast. The composite beast is not an individual, this beast is composed of seven heads and ten horns. The horns are rulers or governments, the heads each have blasphemous names written on them, they have something to do with the religious belief systems. If the Day of the Lord (the wrath we are not destined for) shall not come until the falling away and the man of sin is revealed. If we are to see the man of sin revealed, it could not be in the trumpets as they are God's wrath. Eeven 1 Thess 5 shows us, BUT! Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. It doesn't say we wont be here. It says stay spiritually awake. Be prepared. Be warned. Are you sure that the entirety of the "Day of the Lord" is the "wrath we are not destined for"? There are those who would define "the Day of the Lord" as any time when the the Lord intervenes in the affairs of mankind. And that could certainly be some time prior to final wrath that we are to be saved from on Judgement day, like at the first trumpet for example. So how could the man of sin arise out of the abyss when the man of sin arises out of the earth via Daniel/Rev The antichrist is also a horn of the 4th kingdom that rises from the earth, not the sea. There are those who have the view that the "earth" from Daniel 7 is not the same "earth" that is found in Revelation 13. i am one of those. The Antichrist has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon, because he IS the Dragon. I should also add, that I have problems accepting the AC not revealing till the 5th trumpet because in Daniel 11:31, the Antichrist does the following: His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. You went back too far in Daniel 11. Daniel 11 is hard. Daniel 11:31 is not our end time Abomination of Desolation. It's the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. Jesus' People in the first century could follow along through all those regional wars in the verses prior to 31, and see that it was getting time for them to have a bag packed. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, head for the hills. Check out verse 35: "and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. Until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. I think i saw a couplet in there. The time of the end is the appointed time, for it still awaits. Verses 33,34 and 35 are talking about the Foxe Book days, the dark ages, Peter Waldo, the Waldensians, the Piedmont Easter and Martin Luther. These were the Dragon chasing the woman. We are her offspring. Piedmont Easter.
 Our modern end times began at verse 36: 36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. This is happening now, this is the equivalent to: "It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. - Revelation 13:6 And shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. Until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. Here, he is on the scene. When we fast forward through all his attacks, we get to Chapter 12. At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered After the Antichrist is running around, after everything happens, then there will be Jacob's trouble. Christ says in Matthew 24:21, For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. We know that it must happen prior to the 6th seal. It is before the 6th seal because in Matthew 24:29 Jesus follows this passage with Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. Interestingly, it models the 6th seal. Rev 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. And in Matthew 24:30 it follows the 6th seal, Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. which is interesting because Rev 7:9 shows the rapture after the son of man comes After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands And it follows Daniel 12:1 when it says at the time of Jacob's trouble But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered Every person of every nation. Of every tribe. Of every language. Therefore, the Antichrist must precede the 6th seal. That IS interesting that Revelation 7:9 shows a rapture after the Son of man comes. "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Here is where we finally, for the most part, agree. I think he is here, but behind the scene. Why i think that is because if it is he who gives his power and his throne and his great authority to the composite beast, then you just need to identify the places where this beast speaks. I haven't been a Bible guy for that long, i've been researching the end times since 2013. But you must know venge, like i found out, that there are different teams of understanding, different theologies. The Dispensationals, the Preterists, the Historicists and the Amils to list a few. I'm not from any one of them, but i don't think any one of them is ALL right or ALL wrong. I recommend to pick and choose the truth that each one has. Even on this forum, honest minded people question the 70th week. Is it in the past, is it in the future or even if it's half fulfilled and half is still to come. I saw a note from a moderator here that questioned the notion that the Antichrist would even MAKE a covenant with people. I think she's right, covenants with many are God's department, not the Devils. Therefore the AC is here during the seals and he is revealed because of Daniel 11:31. Edit: to Sum it up easier what I wrote. If the astral events are the 6th seal and Jesus said that happens after the tribulation, it backs up Daniel that says after that is the time of Jacobs trouble. But that time in Dan 12:1 happens AFTER the 11th horn is wrecking the earth in Chapter 11. We know it continues the sequence because in Chapter 12 it says "At that time". Therefore, the events look like: 1. 11th horn AC sets up AoD 2. 11th horn does X, Y and Z 3. Jacob's trouble 4. 6th seal 5. Rapture 6. Trumpets (wrath) That is just following Daniel 11/12, Matthew 24 and Rev However, i had to slice this one out. I'm not sure what you mean by the 11th horn, or what is does X, Y and Z, or how you are harmonizing Daniel 11/12, Matthew 24 and Revelation. We could be in danger of a discombobulation in the schematic. At a minimum, i would elevate those trumpets to be equivalent with #3 on the list. I have them as the catalyst for the busy part of the tribulation. I DO agree that the "darkened" sun is the same as the "sackcloth" sun of the 6th seal. The cornerstone of my eschatology is based on that. I agree that our end time man of sin's revelation, is this the man who made the earth tremble, must precede the sixth seal. But he will not be allowed to manifest in our visible realm until the 5th trumpet, probably just a month after the fourth seal. I think the fourth seal is going to be about the same time as the 1st trumpet. The seals are hard. But if i'm right, it's going to be cool because we're almost there already. When it begins, it's going to happen and be over very quickly. We will literally be able to lift up our heads because our redemption will be just a short time away. There are those who think that the seals span the time from 1798 until 3019, 1221 years. There are those who think the first three seals are already open, but are not what the prophecy book writers told us they would be. i am one of those. Peaceful Rest of the Sabbath. |
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Post by venge on Jun 9, 2018 20:08:16 GMT -6
Our modern end times does not begin at verse 36. That is what some think. You may be one of those. I take it as prophecy, not history. When I am able to get to a computer, I’ll post more on your responses.
I don’t see how the AC is the dragon when the dragon is Satan. If you are suggesting Satan enters him, that doesn’t mean the AC is in a abyss. Forgive me but that isn’t even scriptural. Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, and Cyrus were 3 of the 4 kings. The AC being the last. All from the earth, not the abyss.
In regards to the end, I place that at Jacobs trouble hence verse 35, is prophecy for the end doesn’t begin till chapter 12:1
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