Post by venge on Apr 18, 2018 13:58:30 GMT -6
As he descends, won’t every eye see him?
If it happens before the first seal, why use the 2 witnesses as a last effort to get people to change before his wrath if it’s already his wrath? Why send them? Why not send them before the rapture so others may have 1 last chance before the door is shut? For the Bible says even then if you call upon the name of the Lord you will be saved.
Why tell us Elijah will come before you (Christ) if we won’t see it?
Why do our dead brethren cry to you during the tribulation, when we are raptured, asking for you to punish the earth if it’s being punished already?
Edit: not hijacking, just saw this and another and looking for clarification. Please continue with the OPs subject 😐
There is however a big difference between the sealing of Lord Jesus to the Father and Lord Jesus to the 144,000. In the first case the Father and Son are perfect in every way and in fact "one." Whereas in the second case the 144,000 are sinners that are called and forgiven of their sins. In other words, they have a buffer between them and the Father and that buffer is Christ. They themselves could never be sealed directly to the Father, but they can be sealed to their Savior. As a result they have the gift of life; to live and harvest souls unto Lord Jesus during a time when all other saints have been harvested in the rapture.
Thus, when the rapture takes place these 144,000 will be called to their mission and return to the field of harvest. It is the two witnesses that lead them (Rev. 12:14) and when the two witnesses are killed then the 144,000 will not allow their bodies to be disturbed but lay in the streets for three days (Rev. 11:9).
The greater question in all of this is when does it occur? That is, when does the rapture kick off and the 144,000 get called to their mission. Rev. 7:1-2 indicates that after some event in the east he leaves to seal the 144,000. That event in the east appears to be the attack upon Israel. Thus, I am somewhat convinced that our current events lead to an attack upon Israel and that is when the Rapture takes place and sparks the call of the 144,000. It is then that the 5 months takes place as mentioned in Rev. Chapter 9. Those 5 months are part of the 3.5 years of tribulation. Thus, the 144,000 are harvesting souls while the beast is ruling the earth. Then at the end of the 3.5 years the 144,000 destroy the beast (Rev. 9:14:15). In these verses the 4 angels metaphorically represent the second of the three woes and the 6th angel metaphorically represents the 144,000. Also, Rev. 19:11-21 depicts the same war as Rev. 9:13-21.
I think the prophecy of Ezra's Eagle in the Apocrypha must be fulfilled first. Four feathers will be plucked out by the deep state. I think the first of the four was Ryan and now three remain.
I agree with you that an event happens on Israel prior to the Rapture. The event has to be the surrounding armies on Israel's border. The setup of the AoD.
This is because 2 Thessalonians 1-3 states
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
It is setup in the "midst" of the week. Which is the proximity to the middle of the Daniels 70th week of around 1260 days +/- some
Is this found elsewhere in scripture to back this up? Yes. I have posted this before a few times adding a little more to it for some of you.
Luke 17:23-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
In verses 31-36 Christ continues.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
In what day? The day when the son of man is revealed...1 is taken, 1 is left. The rapture. So it happens in the day of Christ, the day of the Lord. It happens when the son of man is revealed. How is he revealed?
Matthew 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He is revealed with great glory and power
He comes with the great sound of a trumpet
He sends his angels to gather together his elect
Does this happen in other verses?
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The dead shall rise
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The trump of God is used again, the sound of the trumpet.
The dead rise
We go into the clouds to meet him
Mark 13:26-27
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
He comes in the clouds
He has power and great glory
He gathers his elect
1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1: in the clouds
2. As he descends
2. With a trumpet
3. with power and glory
4. then he resurrects his elect
When will this be? We know it happens on the day of Christ, the day of the Lord and he must be seen. We know what to look for and what will happen but when does it happen?
Daniel 12:1 says,
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
We are delivered at the time of trouble. Can we find this also anywhere else to identify the time of trouble? After Matthew 24:13 when the AoD is setup after the midst of the tribulation, we see in verse 21-22 the answer:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So when will this happen?
Matthew 24:29 gives it away.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Romans 5:2-5
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1 Peter 1:6-7
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
But what does Jesus say about when this will happen? I don't believe in what you wrote. I believe it happens before the tribulation.
In Matthew 24:44-51 Christ says,
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:1 starts out
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
He comes with angels
He takes the good to inherit his kingdom. Ie. the rapture
In Matthew 13:30 in the Parable of the Weeds Christ describes the rapture,
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Christ then explains the meaning in 39-41
39the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
I will stop here, but I hope you enjoy all the linking verses and comparisons. The most important thing of all this is not that you change your position because what I wrote. Not that you agree or disagree. And not that you made it this far down the page.
It is because you love God, you have Christ in your life and you will follow him all your days even into death if need be. That is the most important thing you need. Prophecy is good, but not the focus.
EDIT: This was suppose to be a reply and again I don't wanna derail the thread, can a DEV move this one post here into Rapture forum and title it "Why I don't Believe in a Pre Trib Rapture. Then I can just finish it there =P
