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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 7, 2018 7:13:30 GMT -6
Lost track of who made this comment: It seems to me that we are very much warned about the antichrist... John is the only one that defines the antichrist. All other scripture it gets implied. At least that is how I am seeing it, so I am open for correction here..(man of lawlessness does not by definition indicate an antichrist) One can be acting in lawlessness and not be denying Jesus.. John is saying back then that is it the last hour. He seems to suggest the antichrist-ness has gone out from them. To me this is a spiritual attitude denying Christ, so to deny Him, one must have been told about and known of Him to deny Him, using deductive reasoning of this script. This to me is one of the reasons the 1st-4th seals have been open for a long time now. John is saying IT IS THE LAST HOUR.. 18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; FROM THIS WE KNOW IT IS THE LAST HOUR. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.and.. 26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
28Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.We are forwarned about the antichrist as we go about our Walk. It is for this reason that the Seals could have started to be open the Moment that Christ was seated at the Right Hand. We are not yet at the 5th Seal. By John's epistle here we are told that antichrists went out from us..and many other things that we see from Acts and onward, and thru the destruction of the temple circa 70 AD, onward to all the famines and wars that we have had over this world...kingdoms rising and falling...peace has been being removed from earth for a long time. There is a real distinction of those who follow Christ and those that don't as far as an attitude of peace, lovingkindness...(except when debating end times...LOL tossing a little humor to lighten up the mood  ) |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 7, 2018 7:34:56 GMT -6
There also seems to be 3 times that the earth is reeped. The first time is not as "reepy" meaning no sickle is used...
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
then the sickle is used (maybe a dull one because the next one is sharp):
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
I think this one is like a wheat harvest because a sickle is used, and we have the parable of the Wheat and the Tares..and other references to soils, seeds, farming practices...
then a sharp sickle and a trampling:
18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Vines are a little harder to cut then a wheat head to be literal here. I find this picture of the last Harvest quite impressive. and quite dramatic.
This chapter in Rev seems to be an overview about these Harvests. The beauty of the Revelation is John is seeing various aspects of it and it is not written in order from Ch 1 to 22..but rather he gets overviews and then details. I am sure most share this same opinion.
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Post by stormyknight on May 7, 2018 7:59:20 GMT -6
then a sharp sickle and a trampling: 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Vines are a little harder to cut then a wheat head to be literal here. I find this picture of the last Harvest quite impressive. and quite dramatic. I've wondered about the use of the symbolism of the grapevines. I know God is all about family and generations are pictured, in our society, as a family tree. Could this be a picture of gathering all the families of the earth? A grapevine is similar to a tree in the way it branches out and there are references to God's children being 'grafted in' to the vine. The reason I say this is that there are some very powerful families that have their hand in a lot of things here on the earth. Trade, government, even religions(some of the popes and many cardinals were from the same family. Medici, Borgia, etc.) Just a thought. Don't know that it means anything. |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 7, 2018 8:01:19 GMT -6
so sorry, just breaking down the statements as I have my own questions:
Where in this verse Matt 24:15 is the antichrist? I use a couple of translations...
KJV 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
NIV 15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
YLT 15'Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)
I am to go to Daniel 9:27 correct?
KJV 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
NIV 27He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’h In the middle of the ‘seven’i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the templej he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
YLT And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'
Isn't there much assumption here to link Daniel 9:27 to the Antichrist? Jesus is saying when you see the abomination of desolation. What is/are abominations? This phrasology by Jesus, is He not saying, "when you see the abomination that causes desolation"??... as for Daniel 9:27 it is a process of an abomination that results in desolation, or is making desolate. I am just trying to understand here... an abomination to the Lord, is that not the things that are abhored by God? ie, sacrifices to atone for sin when Jesus already did that? and things that are sinful behavior... because what is an abomination?
Lev: 18 as an example of what displeases God...and these people in this context were not anti-God...just being warned about what God considers an abomination to Him...
24Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) 28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. 30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.
I am asking these questions because I still am not seeing that what is in Daniel 9 is the Antichrist by definition of what John says is the antichrist: one who DENIES Christ. Denying Christ and acting in lawlessness are not the same thing to me...are they supposed to be?
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 7, 2018 8:09:36 GMT -6
stormyknight Look at all the verses that talk about wine, grapes, vines..in the entire Bible. Look at the context these metaphors..there is extreme value in these analogies, both [hysically and spiritually...
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Post by venge on May 7, 2018 10:29:53 GMT -6
I’d say Luke 21:20. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...
That is The AoD.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 7, 2018 13:28:23 GMT -6
so that happened then already, in 70 AD?...what part of the armies surrounding is the abomination? I can see that the armies cause desolation, but what is the abomination that would cause the armies to surround Jerusalem? or am I to understand that having armies surrounding Jerusalem IS the abomination? How is that an abomination? just needing a bit more clarification on this reply venge.. If God is allowing the armies to surround Jerusalem, how is that an abomination? |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 7, 2018 13:46:52 GMT -6
I know this was all hashed out in another thread, but IS Matthew 24:15 exclusively physical? "standing in the Holy Place" is my reference. Again I ask, for the reader to understand is to understand the spiritual attack of a man's heart, that elevating oneself equal to God or lacking in Faith and taking things into one's own ways, not following God (Christ), these types of things that are abominations. This spiritual "mystery" will be revealed to those who will be revealed at His Coming. This Rapture, this Barley Harvest/First fruit. This changing in a twinkling of an eye from mortal to immortal..once those who have that glorified body will SEE what this mystery of abomination that is that's in the heart of man literally, on the spiritual level. I digress, so apologize, but Philip was able to transpose himself to another area...Look at his conversation with the eunich, too.
Acts 8 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.Is there not this possibility that we have holywood-ized the rapture so much so that we are missing what the purpose of the Rapture is? 29Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.Philip KNEW what the eunich was doing because of an open line of communication with the Holy Spirit. The sealing of the witnesses... this will help witness1 as she is laying out an interesting case of the wrath of God and what is it NOT... How would someone be converted AFTER this "rapture"? Because that missing family member is not entirely "missing"!! Oh I will pay for that comment... Let's see what kind of grief I get for that comment because it is out there in left field...way out there... I will take this comment to her thread there where it fits better with the topic.. |
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Post by witness1 on May 7, 2018 15:00:31 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl, I love your heart for the Lord. We see a lot of things the same way. But I think we will be in heaven. 1) Who do you think are the 24 elders? I feel like I'm not going to buy into any theory unless someone can make every single last piece fit. Who are these saints if not the church? 2) Why does Jesus say He will receive us unto Himself, that where He is there we may also be? Is He here on earth now in some odd form that it sounds like you think we will take? Or is He in heaven opening the scrolls? If He is there... won't we be there too? 3) What place has He gone to prepare for us? Some dimension on earth? 4) The Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip... he wasn't able to transpose himself. 5) Someone will be converted after the rapture because an angel will fly through the air proclaiming the Gospel, and they will see that those who worshipped Jesus are entirely missing. I think this happens after a short period of persecution from which we are "snatched". They will also see the evil on the earth at that time and realize there are only 2 teams... God's or Satan's. 6) I haven't finished studying this yet so I haven't written a post on it, but I'll throw it out there in case you want to study it. This idea is very interesting: the fact that the book of Ruth focuses on NAOMI'S redemption. You will especially see this in the last verses... everyone is so excited that this baby was laid in Naomi's lap, with no mention at all of Ruth who bore the child. Naomi represents the Jews while Ruth represents the Gentile who made Yahweh her God. The Lord showed me this because I taught the book of Ruth to a group of college girls who really needed teaching. It honestly wasn't something I wanted to do, but in obedience I did it, and the Lord revealed a ton to me through this study. Following is the article I happened to stumble across when researching the 10 generations from Perez to David. It presents a solid case for dispensationalism. *Note that Naomi was redeemed when Ruth was taken as a bride*. superiorword.org/ruth-4-18-22-perez-to-david-from-the-breaker-to-the-beloved/
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Post by Natalie on May 7, 2018 15:25:34 GMT -6
I'm not sure about things that took place in 70 AD, I would have to look into that, but way before that Antiochus Epiphanies was a foreshadow of what is to come. It is where most get the concept of what the Antichrist will do and what the AoD is. www.gotquestions.org/Antiochus-Epiphanes.htmlNot that it will necessarily be a statue of Zeus and swine on the altar...but it will be something blasphemous. |
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Post by witness1 on May 7, 2018 15:47:22 GMT -6
When you really look into the Illuminati, Free Masons, RCC, etc, there is a lot of Zeus/Diana/Nimrod/Baal/Baphomet/Tammuz/insert false god here/ worship.
Ezekiel 8 talks about abominations in the temple, and these abominations come to light before the men of God are sealed on their foreheads. There is sun worship, and "weeping for Tammuz" in Ezekiel 8, which we see often in the RCC when you really look at it. I agree that the AoD will be blasphemous, and I think it will have something to do with these false gods. Amir even did a lesson on the Illuminati... this is not conspiracy theory stuff. It's stuff we need to be aware of.
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Post by venge on May 7, 2018 16:27:42 GMT -6
so that happened then already, in 70 AD?...what part of the armies surrounding is the abomination? I can see that the armies cause desolation, but what is the abomination that would cause the armies to surround Jerusalem? or am I to understand that having armies surrounding Jerusalem IS the abomination? How is that an abomination? just needing a bit more clarification on this reply venge .. If God is allowing the armies to surround Jerusalem, how is that an abomination? I see it as a future event, not a past one Barbie =P |
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Post by fitz on May 7, 2018 18:06:37 GMT -6
Not inserting anything, just clarifying. The text clearly indicates this is Daniel's people, the Jews. You cannot say this is everyone written in the book of life. The text is limited to deliverance of the Jewish people. This happens at the end of the Tribulation. I can assume we are gone. Read everything I wrote above. It's what I believe based on God's word. You are free to believe what you want to.  Then you agree there are 2 raptures? You would say, one before tribulation and then the Jews during? But there is only 2 resurrection. Not 3. One resurrection for the believing, one for the wicked later. If there is one resurrection and after that verse is says they will be resurrected, wouldn’t it be the same event? Daniel 12:2 says multitudes that sleep will awake to everlasting life. If they are only Jews, you are saying that event happens twice when Rev says once. At the rapture! One rapture, 2 resurrections. The believing Jews and Trib Saints living to the end of the Tribulation will be rescued, the dead in Christ resurrected (verse 1). The unbelieving dead will be raised in the 2nd resurrection at the White Throne Judgement at the end of the Millennium (verse 2). Revelation 20:12 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. |
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Post by venge on May 8, 2018 4:02:24 GMT -6
Then you agree there are 2 raptures? You would say, one before tribulation and then the Jews during? But there is only 2 resurrection. Not 3. One resurrection for the believing, one for the wicked later. If there is one resurrection and after that verse is says they will be resurrected, wouldn’t it be the same event? Daniel 12:2 says multitudes that sleep will awake to everlasting life. If they are only Jews, you are saying that event happens twice when Rev says once. At the rapture! One rapture, 2 resurrections. The believing Jews and Trib Saints living to the end of the Tribulation will be rescued, the dead in Christ resurrected (verse 1). The unbelieving dead will be raised in the 2nd resurrection at the White Throne Judgement at the end of the Millennium (verse 2). Revelation 20:12 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Great! I agree. 1 rapture and 2 resurrections. Then the resurrection we see in Daniel of the dead are those in Christ. Not just Jews. And they rise first and then they who are alive and remain meet the Lord together in the clouds. According to Daniel and Christ after the AoD is set up and great tribulation begins, therefore, the time before that sequence we are present which are called the time of sorrow. Because the 2nd resurrection happens after the millennium. |
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Post by witness1 on May 8, 2018 4:13:24 GMT -6
Daniel 12:2 may or may not just be about the Jews, but it clearly ISN'T the rapture. At the rapture, only the dead in Christ rise. In Daniel 12:2, some awake to shame and everlasting contempt.
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