|
|
Post by venge on Apr 10, 2018 18:17:59 GMT -6
no txt
|
|
Job19
Layman
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Posts: 62 
|
Post by Job19 on Apr 11, 2018 1:42:56 GMT -6
venge - I flippantly said "aliens" earlier and should not have assumed others would know what I meant. I take things for granted at times since we have discussed these things earlier in the year and in other posts. So to clarify I am in the corner of there is no life outside this planet. Why? 2-3 reasons. 1 God gives no account of it in Genesis or elsewhere. Also we are created in God's image, no one else even the supposed aliens. 2 we are redeemed by God's ONLY Son. If there were other intelligent life forms they too would be subject to the requirements we are. A savior to bridge the gap between God and man. I realize that could be hard for some to accept. That is my personal revelation on the matter. Lastly I am also of the persuasion of witness1 when it comes aliens. They are deceivers, devil's in disguise. No more no less. But her post helps explain that a bit more I totally agree Mike with your assessment of who "aliens" are and the concept of so called intelligent life in our cosmos. Romans 8:22 says that all of creation groans. I thought that the final assessment of Jacque Vallee was interesting after 40 years of investigating the alien & UFO phenomena. He was not a Christian and he had no religious motivation when he said "two things I can tell you (#1) they are not creatures from other planets within our 3 dimensional space-time universe but they are from other dimensions and (#2) they have been caught out in many lies" !
Demons in disguise indeed.
David
|
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Apr 11, 2018 6:38:25 GMT -6
mike, Adam at Parable of the Vinyard YT channel had this brother, Larry, on a while back and, I think, gives an excellent testimony of what/who the aliens are. What starts out as a seemingly typical close encounter that you might see portrayed on TV became quite the harrowing experience.
|
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Apr 11, 2018 8:59:44 GMT -6
Question(s): When each seal has been opened, is that when that which has been sealed begins, or is it that, 'now it can be understood'? As John records in Revelation 6 each time a seal is opened, "And WHEN...I heard...". My understanding is that he, John, heard "it" after the seal was opened. Now in Daniel 12:4 it says, "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end," and again in verse 9, "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." To me this begs the question, when did the 'time of the end' begin, if people are discerning events in Rev. 6 as happening decades, even centuries, ago? When did the first seal get opened, or has it not been opened yet? If it has been opened, I would think the 'time of the end' had/has begun. If I am way off base here, please let me know. This is just what has always been in my head. Edit: I do believe we are in/near the end times, but has the "time" spoken of in Daniel begun and when? If I understand your question correctly, you’re asking what is identified as being the time of the end? There are really 2 which I can better explain on the weekend but the one that’s spoken of is Jacobs trouble aka the Great Tribulation after the 6th seal. Remember God says that The end will not come unless they’re falling away comes first and the man of sin is to be revealed the son of perdition. Once the falling away happens and he is revealed then it will be the end because he will set up the abomination of desolation and that will lead into Jacob’s trouble. something I ask you to consider while you prepare your explanation; As you posted, the end will not come unless...the falling away and the man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed. I agree, but this is The End. Rev. 6:17 "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" This is it, the finale. I'm talking about the beginning of the time of the end. Many believe as I do that we are in the time because, "many shall run to and fro, and knowledge will be increased." Dan. 12:4. So, when did Daniel's words get unsealed? Who broke the seal? Was it simultaneous with the first seal of Rev. 6, or one of the other unsealings? If so, the twenty four elders are already in Heaven, singing with the four beasts that surround the Throne. Who are the twenty four Elders and when did they get there? If Daniel's words have not been unsealed yet, then we are in for a real eye-opener when people are running to and fro and knowledge is increased more than now! I don't mean to pick on just you, venge. I know each of us receive understanding in different ways and quantities, so by all means, anyone else that has insight, please respond. After a binge of reading through many different threads with differing points of view, wanting to absorb it all, I tend to get myself confused. I realize I shouldn't do this, but I feel the time is short and I want so much to know as much as possible. |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Apr 11, 2018 9:54:04 GMT -6
stormyknight - deep breaths my friend, deep breaths, inhale, exhale  ok we're good...most seemingly want to better understand what is happening around us day by day. Most of us feel this is it! The eclipse, then the immense disasters (hurricanes-slightly before and) after the warning, then the Great Sign - I mean how many people can say an actual bible verse manifested in the heavens during their lifetime? Not many between maybe 33 AD'ish (perhaps even 68-70 AD when the temple was destroyed) until 1948 or so? But now 7 billion were here for the Great Sign and how many really realize it was penned in scripture 2000 yrs ago? Not many. Now we see Eze 38-39, Isa 17, Psalm 83 all about to occur, yet we cant get our hands (or wrap our heads) around the whole thing. Yet He is in control. This is happening according to His plan. He's not surprised, nor off guard. We (I mean me & you Stormy and whoever else feels this way) have to learn to rest in Him. I wanna know if the rapture is tomorrow, but what if I dont know? What if we just realize it when suddenly we are changed? I need to be okay with that.
|
|
|
|
Post by venge on Apr 11, 2018 10:24:24 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by venge on Apr 11, 2018 10:29:43 GMT -6
no txt
|
|
Job19
Layman
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Posts: 62
|
Post by Job19 on Apr 12, 2018 6:27:21 GMT -6
Hi Venge,
I have just posted this in the "Rapture" section and as it relates to your post here regarding the seals in Rev 6 I thought that it may be of interest to you.
My primary Bible text for this post is 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
I know that we are all pretty familiar with this text as prophecy watchers and I for one find the words very interesting when I compare them to the state of the world in these last days. I see all of the events in the Olivet discourse unfolding in a pattern of peaks and valleys equating to the pattern of the birth pangs of a woman in child birth. They increase in frequency and intensity as the birth approaches. Earthquakes are a great example of this and it has been shown that earthquakes over the last 100 years have indeed increased in frequency and intensity. In terms of peace and safety I also find myself living in a world where one month we seem to be looking at the prospect of war, and the next month we seem to be in a state of relative peace. For example a few months ago we were all feeling that there was a very real possibility of war with North Korea (a peak) and then all of a sudden young Kim is playing nice and to everyone's surprise is talking of peace with South Korea and the USA (a valley). Now we seem to have climbed another "peak" with a very real prospect of a strike on Syria by the USA and possible retaliation by Russia.
My point is this. I firmly believe that scripture teaches that we will be raptured in a valley, when the world is talking of peace and safety, and not on a peak. Many people will get caught out, including many Laodiceans, when the Lord comes as a thief in the night. This is one of the reasons that I do not believe we will be here for any of the seals in Revelation 6. The rider on the red horse was granted to take peace from the earth and from thereon in the world descends into war and anarchy and wickedness the likes of which the world has never seen or will see again. With the Holy Spirit in His role as restrainer gone (2 Thes 2) I don't believe that the world can ever return to a state of "peace and safety" until the prince of peace returns (with us) in Rev 19:11. I would like to focus on a particular Greek word in 1 Thess 5:6 which hit me like a thunderbolt the first time I read it. The word "Others" in verse 6 is the Greek word "Loipos" (Strongs G3062) which means those remaining or left behind. So when the world is talking peace and safety, in their little pseudo valleys, then sudden destruction will come upon them (them being the unsaved world) and they will not escape. But we the Saints of the most High GOD will escape and will be caught up to GOD and His throne (Rev 12:5) & (1 Thess 4:13-18).
As I write this post its 11.30am (BST) on 12th April and warships are being deployed from the USA and Cyprus, Russia are moving warships from bases in Syria and the world is nervous. I personally believe that we will not be raptured at a time such as this but rather when "they" are talking about peace and safety. I certainly believe that what is happening right now is another major birth pang and I am quite stunned at the way the players involved in Isaiah 17, Psalm 83, Ezek 39-39, Jer 49 et al are all in place and posturing themselves exactly how scripture said that they would in the last days.
Maranatha & many blessings
David
Read more: unsealed.boards.net/thread/1475/state-world-time-rapture#ixzz5CSc18015
|
|
|
|
Post by venge on Apr 12, 2018 10:44:08 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Apr 12, 2018 11:52:57 GMT -6
Noah was not in darkness so the day of the flood would overtake him like a thief. He was in the light. He prepared spiritually. He prayed. He continued on course to do work for God. Till the day he entered the ark. In his day, wernt there murders? wernt there slayings? Of course. And he saw it that is why God punished mankind then. He saw it and we will see it. The bible says in revelation even to make some white. That is, some of us that are not there spiritually yet...it will cause us to examine our heart and change us to make us white like fine linen, acceptable for our Lord. Right. In Noah's day there were murders...terrible things. Man's sin...rampant...just as we see today. But the thing Noah didn't suffer was God's wrath. The rain. The flood. He was saved through it. Most pre-tribbers like to liken Noah's story to the rapture, but I see it more of a type of the Jew's during the Tribulation. God will protect a remnant of the Jewish people THROUGH the tribulation just like God protected Noah through the flood. However Lot...Lot was different. He was saved OUT OF the wrath of God. This is more a type of the Church and the rapture. Why would God make the Church currently alive on the earth suffer so much more than he did the Christians that have lived and died in the past 2000 years? Oh sure, there has always been "tribulation" and persecution. But that is due to Man's sin...not God's wrath. The answer is, He won't. If you understand God's character, He is a God that saves. He doesn't punish His bride through the coming Tribulation....the worst time ever in the history of the world. No, He already died to save us. The Church is a very special entity in the plan of God. We aren't the heathen. We aren't the Jews who rejected Him. We have accepted the Messiah who died for us. By believing in Christ, we have already been Justified, Sanctified and will soon be Glorified...before the Tribulation begins. John 627 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.Oh, we surely cooperate with the Holy Spirit in our sanctification once we are saved. But don't be deceived when people tell you that you need to be a little more spiritual or by trying a little harder we will become worthy of heaven. All Jesus. It's all about Jesus and what He has finished. It's the blood of Jesus, not what we can do. There is no purpose in the Church enduring the Tribulation. None, nada, zero. Ephesians 2
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Already, positionally, seated with Christ in heaven. How much more sanctified can we become by enduring the Tribulation? |
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Apr 12, 2018 12:56:24 GMT -6
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
So, we ARE NOT appointed for God's wrath...whether alive or dead we will live with Him, therefore, we can take comfort in this, and comfort other believers as well.
There is no comfort in thinking we must endure any part of the Tribulation. Jesus said it would be the worst time ever.
Pre-trib rapture. Clearly.
|
|
neural
Truth Seeker
Posts: 113
|
Post by neural on Apr 12, 2018 13:41:36 GMT -6
I should add there will be “many” Christ’s. Do not go to them. Remember that verse? Have you seen many false Christ? I haven’t. Have you seen famine, war and death on a major scale in the US, EU, Australia, Japan...could go on. We aren’t there yet. Christ even repeats the false Christ....remember I told you so he says. This is something that will be common. He makes a statement telling it twice Just because you haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist and that therefore your view/opinion is correct. My mother had to care for a man all the way back before I was born who went to the hospital because he claimed to be Jesus and was going to "save the world" by swallowing shards of glass. Sure, no-one believed him, but the fact remains that he made that claim. Since then there have been other examples (one need only search for "false Jesus" on youtube) of people who not only claim to be Jesus, but also have others fooled into believing them. You also mentioned in response to someone else here that you had been "flippant", and in another that you didn't mean to "pick on" someone. Yeah. The largest reason that I've not chosen to engage you in any of your dozens of posts is because or your attitude. However, since you brought it up here in comments, I'm going to call it like I see it. Regardless of being able to provide scriptural backing for your statements, you come across as condescending and pious. It seems nearly every time I read a response in a thread by you, you are telling someone else why they are wrong or intimating that they are wrong. Believers, as a whole, as the body of Christ, need to understand that no matter how sure we are of something, someone else is likely going to have another perspective, and even if it is wrong (especially if it is wrong), we need to treat them with respect, not only as a brother or sister in Christ, but as someone who is just like us: Incapable of understanding the mind of God. You have claimed that the four horsemen represent humans in some fashion, or that they represent violence/judgement done upon the earth by man and/or satan. When I stated my opinion against this assertion, your response attacked not the primary assertion or evidence which I provided, but instead attacked a side or supporting issue. I clearly stated that Death and Hades were not human, in closing my statement referenced to both of them with the term "these" which you then took out of context as if I was somehow referring to *all* the horsemen. You took a similar approach to the assertion that the use of the term "he" doesn't necessarily apply to only humans. Instead of addressing this assertion, you deflected the entire thing by talking about the horsemen being given power, which does *nothing* to challenge the fact that "he" is not strictly limited to humans and God in the Bible. These are the very same tactics used for the past 2 decades by individuals on the internet commonly known as "trolls", who are relentless in their endeavors to cause as much strife and discord as possible. When presented with a challenge, you deflect, distract, and attack something other than the posed viewpoint. The question which remains now, is whether or not you will read my initial response regarding false Christs, or simply attack my interpretation of the word "many". Also, please provide scripture reference (in context) which states that ALL nations (100%) have to be experiencing famine/disease/etc. in order for the prophecy you were referencing to be fulfilled. |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Apr 12, 2018 14:38:50 GMT -6
Same team here guys, same team
|
|
|
|
Post by venge on Apr 12, 2018 15:13:09 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Apr 12, 2018 16:58:30 GMT -6
Venge I don't see that you've specifically broken any rule. Has a post or two of yours seemed a bit as if you knew more than someone else and come across condescending? I could see that, but I understand we're all fallible and God challenges us in many areas to change. Could be one of several reasons the Lord led you here. But all in all you've not been unwelcome by any of the Mods. So please continue to share your thoughts, understanding that others may not have (ever) heard what you want to point out. Likewise for you, as it's possible someone may show you something you hadn't previously understood.
We are commanded to love one another. Try to talk to each other as if you were addressing the Lord himself
|
|
