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Post by watchmanjim on May 1, 2017 23:27:31 GMT -6
This was an interesting, though long, video from Michael Haney. From what he says, he seems to think two very interesting things:
1. There is no pretrib rapture, therefore the church saints endure through the end of it all
2. He seems to think the whole thing is 3.5 years (ish) not 7.
He seems to be ignoring some of the other things we have all been talking about. But he did put some interesting numbers together.
One thing that seemed beneficial was how he linked things to the feasts--again, I think, getting it partially right.
Another thing was how he saw, I think, correctly, that Daniel's 2300 days should actually be counted as 1,150 days--they are 2300 mornings and evenings, referring to the daily sacrifices, meaning 2 sacrifices per day.
However, it does seem he has ignored that whole 70th week of Daniel thing, and what seems to be a clear account in Revelation of the 2 witnesses being for 3.5 years BEFORE another 3.5 year period--they get killed and ressurected before the AOD (Abomination Of Desolation).
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Post by whatif on May 2, 2017 0:13:36 GMT -6
Another thing was how he saw, I think, correctly, that Daniel's 2300 days should actually be counted as 1,150 days--they are 2300 mornings and evenings, referring to the daily sacrifices, meaning 2 sacrifices per day. I've never heard that theory before, watchmanjim--very interesting! |
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Post by watchmanjim on May 2, 2017 5:22:25 GMT -6
But it does bear more studious confirmation or denial.  |
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 11, 2017 5:45:01 GMT -6
This was an interesting, though long, video from Michael Haney. From what he says, he seems to think two very interesting things: 1. There is no pretrib rapture, therefore the church saints endure through the end of it all 2. He seems to think the whole thing is 3.5 years (ish) not 7. He seems to be ignoring some of the other things we have all been talking about. But he did put some interesting numbers together. One thing that seemed beneficial was how he linked things to the feasts--again, I think, getting it partially right. Another thing was how he saw, I think, correctly, that Daniel's 2300 days should actually be counted as 1,150 days--they are 2300 mornings and evenings, referring to the daily sacrifices, meaning 2 sacrifices per day. However, it does seem he has ignored that whole 70th week of Daniel thing, and what seems to be a clear account in Revelation of the 2 witnesses being for 3.5 years BEFORE another 3.5 year period--they get killed and ressurected before the AOD (Abomination Of Desolation). Hello Watchmanjim, I'm a follower of Jesus and you - not necessarily in that order. heheh. I'm a fellow watchman and a Scots-Irish-French-Hebrew-American in Former Nazi Germany -now Poland. ;-) I'm learning a lot, sir and really trying to be like the Bereans, and study scripture and follow sound Hermeneutics - look what other passages there are, cross reference, and look at the historical, grammatical an cultural context of the passage, etc. I've read one passage from Daniel that was referring to half of the tribulation, - that said exactly 1260 days. This would be 3 Hebrew years. 3 x 360 + 180 half a year = 1260. I was hoping you can help me with understanding if this is supposed to be the first half or last half. Also, there is a place that lists 1290 days -- this would be the 3 1/2 Hebrew years - plus the extra leap month added once in a seven year period. That makes a total of 7 Hebrew years - 2550 days. - How did you get the 2300 days. What about the other number in Daniel - I can't remember but it was more than 1290. ?? I'm really not trying to argue. -just trying to get a sense of how and where they get these numbers and the 'alleged gaps' of differing amounts on every timeline. It's not in scripture and really seems like a lot of speculation. Looking forward to hearing from you, my brother. Loren Ozanne - Disciple4life.
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 11, 2017 9:30:42 GMT -6
Yes, you are probably right. I would have to go back and look at that again--I will try to do that if possible.
For now, I was mainly meaning that the concept of the doubling of the day count could be explained through there actually being 2 numbers for each day-- morning and evening.
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blur
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Post by blur on Sept 11, 2017 14:48:06 GMT -6
This was an interesting, though long, video from Michael Haney. From what he says, he seems to think two very interesting things: 1. There is no pretrib rapture, therefore the church saints endure through the end of it all 2. He seems to think the whole thing is 3.5 years (ish) not 7. He seems to be ignoring some of the other things we have all been talking about. But he did put some interesting numbers together. One thing that seemed beneficial was how he linked things to the feasts--again, I think, getting it partially right. Another thing was how he saw, I think, correctly, that Daniel's 2300 days should actually be counted as 1,150 days--they are 2300 mornings and evenings, referring to the daily sacrifices, meaning 2 sacrifices per day. However, it does seem he has ignored that whole 70th week of Daniel thing, and what seems to be a clear account in Revelation of the 2 witnesses being for 3.5 years BEFORE another 3.5 year period--they get killed and ressurected before the AOD (Abomination Of Desolation). Hello Watchmanjim, I'm a follower of Jesus and you - not necessarily in that order. heheh. I'm a fellow watchman and a Scots-Irish-French-Hebrew-American in Former Nazi Germany -now Poland. ;-) I'm learning a lot, sir and really trying to be like the Bereans, and study scripture and follow sound Hermeneutics - look what other passages there are, cross reference, and look at the historical, grammatical an cultural context of the passage, etc. I've read one passage from Daniel that was referring to half of the tribulation, - that said exactly 1260 days. This would be 3 Hebrew years. 3 x 360 + 180 half a year = 1260. I was hoping you can help me with understanding if this is supposed to be the first half or last half. Also, there is a place that lists 1290 days -- this would be the 3 1/2 Hebrew years - plus the extra leap month added once in a seven year period. That makes a total of 7 Hebrew years - 2550 days. - How did you get the 2300 days. What about the other number in Daniel - I can't remember but it was more than 1290. ?? I'm really not trying to argue. -just trying to get a sense of how and where they get these numbers and the 'alleged gaps' of differing amounts on every timeline. It's not in scripture and really seems like a lot of speculation. Looking forward to hearing from you, my brother. Loren Ozanne - Disciple4life.
When Dan 9:27 talks about the daily sacrifice being cut off for 'half of the 7', it is talking about the 1st half, not the 2nd half as the KJV translates it. Also, it is talking about 70 '7's. The breaking of the covenant occurs July 4, 2021 (24 Tammuz 5781) which will be 245 years since July 4, 1776 (the middle of 70 '7's/ 490 years divide by 2 = 245 years). Subtract 42 Hebrew months, then subtract 5 Hebrew months to get dusk Sept 14, 2017. Those 42 months would be the 1st half of that particular '7' and would be the 'great tribulation'. This starts Dan 12's 1290 days, which breaks down in this manner: 5 Hebrew months (147 days) + 1150 days (Dan 8's 2300 morning & evenings, ie 1150 days) = 1290 days + 7 days to purify the temple (Ezek 43:26) (both = 1297 days). The locusts of Joel (people of the prince to come) cut off the daily sacrifice & destroy (locusts of destroyer/ Apollyon of Trumpet 5) the city and the sanctuary). The sanctuary is under attack in the 6th Trumpet but God is a wall of protection around us. (In this manner, the 'sanctuary' is the 'inner sanctuary'/ greek 'naos') So, as the OP suggests, there is no whisked away rapture, but our faith will keep us from joining with Jezebel, the unfaithful church.
so it seems to be that the church is given 5 months to repent before Jezebel joins with the beast system & mark of the beast. That's why at the 6th Trumpet we read:
This is the start of the 'great tribulation' for the Jezebel/ unfaithful church.
start dusk Sept 14, 2017 and add 5 solar months to Feb 14, 2018 to get to the Catholic Lenten marking on the forehead. start dusk Sept 14, 2017 (24 Elul 5777) add 5 months (Hebrew/ lunar/ biblical months) for the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet to get to dusk Feb. 8, 2018 for the start of the great tribulation/ 6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe (24 Sh'vat 5778). Go forward 42 months (Rev 13:5) to get to dusk July 3, 2021 (24 Tammuz 5781). The 70 '7's of Dan 9 are broken in the exact middle on this date, which also happens to be the exact 245th year of the Declaration of Independence covenant (July 4, 1776 to dusk July 3, 2021 = 245. 490/ 2 = 245. When you add 1290 days to dusk Sept 14, 2017, that takes us to March 28, 2021, the start of Passover. This is when the 'great tribulation' is over for the faithful (shortened from 42 months to 1150 days) now read Matt 24 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. The 'sun, moon darkened, stars fall' etc refers to both the 6th Seal & also to the first 4 Trumpets. Immediately after the Seals set of 'sun, moon darkened, stars fall etc' (dusk Sept 14, 2017), comes the 'sign of the son of man in heaven' on Sept 23, 2017. Now start at dusk Sept 14, 2017 (24 Elul 5777) again: add 42 months to get to dusk Feb 5, 2021 (24 Sh'vat 5781). (Add 5 more months to arrive at dusk July 3, 2021 / 24 tammuz again) Immediately after the first 4 trumpets set of 'sun, moon darkened, stars fall etc' (for example, the 'stars fall' refers to the 2nd Trumpet's 'burning mountain'/ Lucifer's fall of Isa 14 & the 3rd Trumpet's 'great star Wormwood', then comes the Feb 11, 2021 'sign of the son of man in heaven'/ cross in Capricorn. As to what the 'abomination' event is, it could be a confluence of a statue of Princess Diana, with Fatima Mary worship, with nukes in the US? We'll find out soon enough |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 22:11:21 GMT -6
d4l....here is a link to a video on the 2300 and 1150, with proposed possible timelines....not definitive, just a postulate
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Post by mike on Sept 12, 2017 6:14:56 GMT -6
@sam who is "Fisher Man"? before I invest 45 minutes are the videos on the channel "sound"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 6:52:41 GMT -6
Mike, that's me! .......some might say I am not sound, ha ha! |
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Post by mike on Sept 12, 2017 7:00:49 GMT -6
Mike, that's me! .......some might say I am not sound, ha ha! Hahaha...Oh I thought it might be but didnt want to assume. I will watch some of your stuff tonight on the big screen (I get YouTube on my tv through Verizon). I've wondered how the 2300 days fits into the timeline too. Not that you have the (only) answer but I sure dont have a clue |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 12, 2017 8:06:51 GMT -6
Hello, blur, good to have you along. You explained that pretty well. Are you familiar with Michael Haney's work? |
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blur
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Post by blur on Sept 12, 2017 16:10:53 GMT -6
Hello, blur, good to have you along. You explained that pretty well. Are you familiar with Michael Haney's work? No, I have very little interest in what YouTube pastors have to say. Wolves in wooden & internet pulpits everywhere. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 13, 2017 21:43:19 GMT -6
I was just asking because it looked like you had a good handle on what he was saying.
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Post by hillary on Sept 14, 2017 10:02:38 GMT -6
Another thing was how he saw, I think, correctly, that Daniel's 2300 days should actually be counted as 1,150 days--they are 2300 mornings and evenings, referring to the daily sacrifices, meaning 2 sacrifices per day. I've never heard that theory before, watchmanjim--very interesting! Sigh....isn't it true that the more we learn the less we know! SaveSave |
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blur
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Post by blur on Sept 16, 2017 11:13:13 GMT -6
I was just asking because it looked like you had a good handle on what he was saying. I actually did go back and try to watch it, but the link didn't work. So, to bring this around again to the OP, why do Christians insist that the 'rapture' is a supernatural event? Scripture makes more sense to interpret it is a natural gathering (not 'whisked away'). When Matt 24 says that word 'angels' in Greek, 'angelos', just means 'messengers'. Who are the messengers? We know from Rev 14 that these messengers are the 144,000 or the 2 witnesses and/ or the supernatural angels. Paul is the only one to use the 'meet the Lord in the air' expression, and even here, does it really mean 'whisked away'? Here is Paul using the word 'harpazo' (the word people go crazy for, the 'whisking away') 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. the 'caught up to' is the Greek 'harpazo'/ seizing. And as we can see, he is decidely non-commital about it meaning 'whisked away'. I think the safer conclusion is that it means a natural gathering meeting Jesus spiritually, esp when Jesus said in John 17:15 Frankly, it's embarrassing to see people wondering if babies will be whisked away raptured, or what the age limit is for accepting Jesus into your heart, or arguing over how much you have to accept Jesus into your heart before you will be raptured. Doesn't it just make more sense to understand it in this manner: 'Don't worship the abomination statue or join with the apostate church / Jezebel and you will be safe from the Satanic system that will be created soon?' Seems pretty straightforward, as opposed to arguing over the equivalent of how many angels dance on the head of a pin. And just to defend my framework detailed in my prior response (to the general audience), I think it still works. The 1st woe should have started dusk Sept 14/ day Sept 15. The people of the ruler to come (aka the locusts belonging to Apollyon, the one who will physically & spiritually destroy the city and the sanctuary (at the 1st woe & 6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe) are the armies encompassing 'Jerusalem'/ Christianity/ USA? (see Luke 21:20-25, the analog to Matt 24's Olivet discourse where he equates the abomination to the armies/ locusts) the great tribulation will not begin until Feb 9, 2018 when the false prophet pretends to cast out demons using pharmakia/ hallucinogenic drugs for sorcery via disaster aid drugs. the armies are already taking shape in the form of alt -right Nazis, Leftist Antifa & Black Lives Matter, Republican Satanists (the upside down pentagram / stars on the elephant logo signify their allegiance to Satan), and dozens of other factions We know that there is tribulation before the sign of the son of man (Sept 23, 2017) and then the natural gathering occurs. Here's where it is interesting to me: it says that those days were shortened for the elect's sake. In the context of the start of the tribulation, they have been - it should have started yesterday! So when would it really start? On Sept 21, 2017, the UN's day of peace, safety and security. This is 2 days, the bare minimum of tribulation days (has to be a plural amount of days) before Sept 23's sign of the son of man. Also, in 2021, Sept 21 will be when the wrath goes out as per Zech 14 and is the basis for the world wide holiday described in Zech 14:16-21. (feast of booths/ tabernacles) |
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