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Post by boraddict on Jan 9, 2018 9:28:41 GMT -6
Starting with the Abomination of Desolation (King James)
Matt. 24:5, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Dan. 12:11, 11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."
So the first number we are dealing with is 1,290 days (43 thirty day months).
Dan. 12:12, "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."
Thus, an alternate number to the 1,290 days is 1,335 days (44.5 thirty day months). However, both of these numbers go from "the daily sacrifice" to "the abomination that maketh desolate."
Nevertheless, it appears that we are to work with the lesser number of 1,290 as the shortened number of days as referenced in Matt. 24:22. I am not solid on this conclusion but it helps in staying with the 1,290 days.
Matt. 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
So from the 1,290 days, if we take off one 30 day month we arrive at 42 months and this number is referenced in Rev. 11:2.
Rev. 11:2, "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
The parallel chapter to Rev. 11 is Rev. 12. I say this because the Book of Revelation has 22 chapters. Thus the first half has 11 chapters and the second half has 11 chapters. Thus, Chapter 11 ends the first half of the book and Chapter 12 begins the second half. Thus, it is my opinion that the 42 months of Rev. 11:2 corresponds directly to the 1,260 days (42 thirty day months) in Rev. 12:6.
Rev. 12:6, "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
Thus, there is a direct correlation between the 1,290 days in Daniel and the 1,260 days in Revelation. The first (Daniel) is 3.5 years plus 30 days, and the second (Revelation) is 3.5 years exactly. Since Daniels 1,290 days pertain to the time between the daily sacrifice being taken way and the abomination of desolation, and the Revelation 1260 days pertain to both the holy city being treat under foot and the woman in the wilderness, then it seems that the daily sacrifice being taken way is the holy city being tread under foot as reverenced in Dan. 9:26.
Dan. 9:26, "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
At this point the analysis is not so firm. It appears that there is a direct correlation between the 3.5 years and the 62 or 69 weeks. And, there is a direct correlation between the 30 days (the remainder of the 1,290 minus 1,260) and the 1 week of Dan. 9:27.
Dan. 9:27, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
Or perhaps the correlation exists between the 45 days (1,335 - 1,290) and the one week. Or there might not be a correlation at all; however, the city is tread under foot at the 69 weeks of Dan. 9:26 and Rev. 11:2. Either these are the same event or they are two separate events. For me that is a big question.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 9, 2018 10:07:04 GMT -6
witness1 and d4L, Praise Jesus!!!!!!!
before reading your post I pm'd Natalie and said this exact thing!!!!!!!
Please, the Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord if it applies to understanding "weeks" and stuff, bring it on!..unless it is too off topic. I hope to bring some info mom and I are discussing for examining.
Maranatha everyone!!!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 9, 2018 10:20:51 GMT -6
borraddict, I still can see that this is Christ's crucifixion. The confirmation of the covenant is/could be the baptizing of Jesus by John the Bapstist. Why did we need John the Baptist to witness about Jesus? Jesus could do that all by himself, and many that witnessed.. John 1:6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. Then this conversation with J the B: 29The next day he(John) saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30“This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ 31“I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” 32John testified saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33“I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ 34“I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”
This is the confirmation. The confirming of Christ. Now, maybe we are only missing the latter 3 1/2 years? After Christ's death and resurrection, there are events that followed that I want to examine for myself so as to see if the whole week was indeed fulfilled post crucifixion. It is listed in the verse choices from the website I found, but I want to seek this out. However, from what d4L is posting, we could examine a dual fulfillment of the 70th week...and even so a dual fulfillment of the latter 3 1/2 years... question for boraddict: Do you see that there is only 1 set of 3 1/2 years mentioned in Rev 12? It reads that way to me anyways. Even though 3 1/2 years is mentioned twice it seems it is describing the same thing. There was a thread addressing this already. You having us in Rev 12 and doing some comparisons, made me want your clarification. |
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Post by mike on Jan 9, 2018 11:14:14 GMT -6
KJ & I discussed this a few months back. Starting on page 6 to around 8 in the Rapture section. No definitive answer though but had some information and links to others research |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 11:47:38 GMT -6
KJ & I discussed this a few months back. Starting on page 6 to around 8 in the Rapture section. No definitive answer though but had some information and links to others research , the link above does obviously not point to the intended target.... Can you check again please? I am very interested in reading through the mentioned discussion. Thank you dear Bro  |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 9, 2018 12:55:46 GMT -6
stephan, it does. It comes after the discussion of what happens with children. Here is what mike posted that took the conversation in the direction of this thread: a few posts later Mike demonstrates why the "he" in Dan 9:27 is referring to person in Dan 9:26.. Dan 9:25“So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26“Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27“ And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; I did not complete verse 27 here on purpose. The conversation goes back and forth with KJS and truthseeker, too. One thing KJS said was: SO yes, this is a great point kjs, not meaning to involuntarily bring you into this thread, but I think this is an important concern. My question then is how would one know we are starting the first part of the decreed 70th week? It sounds like we need to go back to the list that said "there are "490 years" to do the following: Dan 9:24...to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.have these last 2 things been completed? |
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Post by boraddict on Jan 9, 2018 13:42:15 GMT -6
Hi Barb, as stated in my posting above, the relationship between the 3.5 years of Rev. Chapters 11 and 12 appear to be concurrent when understood via the structure of the book.
However, contextually, the 3.5 years of Chapter 12 are before the 3.5 years of Chapter 11 making them consecutive. The reason I say this is because the linking verse Rev. 12:12 is to Rev. 11:15-19 as the third woe. This makes Rev. 12:7-11 link to Rev. 9:13-11:14 as the second woe, and Rev. 12:1-6 link to Rev. 9:1-12 as the first woe.
It means that the first 3.5 years (Rev. 12:6) extends from Rev. 9:1-12 as the first woe, and the second 3.5 years (Rev. 11:2) extends from Rev. 9:13 to 11:14 as the second woe.
In my above posting I was trying to show the concurrent application of Rev. 11:2 and 12:6 to the 70 weeks in Daniel. Nevertheless, the relationship of the 70 weeks of Daniel to Rev. 11:2/12:6 may be type and shadow and not concurrent. I am still trying to figure that out.
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Post by witness1 on Jan 9, 2018 14:35:09 GMT -6
It seems to me that Rev 12:7-17 is expoundinding 12:1-6.
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Post by Natalie on Jan 9, 2018 15:03:07 GMT -6
I think that it is thought that the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years then the abomination takes place and then the Jews flee for 3 1/2. That's the 7. I suppose the witnesses could take place at the same time that the Jews flee shortening the time to the 3 1/2 mentioned in Rev 12. It depends on God's purpose for the witnesses. Who are they prophesying to? If it's to the Jews then it makes sense to have two separate 3 1/2 year time periods. If it's to the rest of the world, then the time could over lap. I have always thought that they were for the Jews since they are located in Jerusalem.
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Post by disciple4life on Jan 9, 2018 17:25:32 GMT -6
I think that it is thought that the two witnesses prophesy for 3 1/2 years then the abomination takes place and then the Jews flee for 3 1/2. That's the 7. I suppose the witnesses could take place at the same time that the Jews flee shortening the time to the 3 1/2 mentioned in Rev 12. It depends on God's purpose for the witnesses. Who are they prophesying to? If it's to the Jews then it makes sense to have two separate 3 1/2 year time periods. If it's to the rest of the world, then the time could over lap. I have always thought that they were for the Jews since they are located in Jerusalem. I think you hit it right on the head, Natalie. ;-) The temple is being built in the first 3 1/2 years [We are raptured out first] But there has to be a temple and sacrifices offered. Then, the AC commits the abomination in the temple at the half-way point. The 1290 days is the second 3 1/2 year period. The passage says explicitly - Dan. 12:11, 11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."
***This can't possibly be the start - the first 3 1/2 years. 2 big reasons - imho. Why? - 1. Because it gives no time to build the temple, and for sacrifices to be initiated, and experts say that they could build the temple in 1 year They have to select the site, then do the excavation before they can ever start the actual construction work. - 2. Because it gives no time for the two witnesses to do their work. The scripture says that they will be killed, and their bodies will lay in the streets for 3 1/2 days, and then they will be raised. There has to be time for the 144,000 to preach, and for the Jews to come back to the Messiah. First half they are deceived/ eyes are blinded by God. ** [If the Abomination of Desolation happened right at the beginning, then the Jews would instantly see they were deceived, and there's no point of having someone then say he's the messiah. The second half is when the Jews flee to Petra.
Up until this - the 2 witnesses are preaching and prophesying and the Jews are still blinded. - thus the sacrifices. When the AC commits this horrific blasphemy, their eyes will be opened, and they will see they have been deceived, and then, the 2nd 3 1/2 years - all Hell breaks lose. This is when the Borsch really hits the fan. This is the "Great Tribulation". Mark of the Beast and people who refuse are martyred. That's why the Bible mentions the Tribulation, and the Great Tribulation. First half is terrible, second half is Hell on earth. |
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Post by Natalie on Jan 9, 2018 17:30:14 GMT -6
That's my understanding, too.
So, even if the 70th week has been fulfilled once, there seems to be a 7 year period yet to come.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 9, 2018 22:41:08 GMT -6
If the time periods overlapped then what is the best solution: | Rev. (7 years, 2520 days) 1,260 days | 1,260 days | | Dan. A. (1,290 days) 1,260 days | 30 days | | Dan. B. (1,290 days) 30 days | 1,260 days | | Dan. C. (1,335 days) 45 days | 1,260 days |
Or another solution? |
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Post by boraddict on Jan 9, 2018 23:01:42 GMT -6
It seems to me that Rev 12:7-17 is expoundinding 12:1-6. Although that may be true, the reference marker for one of the woes is in Rev. 12:12. Following that verse the expounding continues. Which woe is in Rev. 12:12? If it is the third, then where are the other two woes in Rev. Chapter 12? It may be the case that they are not there at all. However, a woe means that something very bad is happening and there are only three woes referenced in Rev. 8:13. How do these woes relate to the 70 weeks? |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 9, 2018 23:40:32 GMT -6
boraddict I think I can follow along with what you are saying. But too, remember, John did not write in chapters, from what I was told, but wrote it down as he was seeing it? So it is not necessary to have all the woes in one chapter. When you say things this way I get really lost, but I am trying to hang in there and see your point. And yes, we have actual counts of days in Revelation. Some are repeating the same timeframe with more detailed descriptions. one needs a giant overhead projector, ya know, the ones we had in the 80's that the teachers used tranparencies to layer teachings...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 0:34:53 GMT -6
That's my understanding, too. So, even if the 70th week has been fulfilled once, there seems to be a 7 year period yet to come. This is my understanding, too. I want to add, that I think that many prophecies do have not only a single fulfilment or a double fulfilment but maybe multiple fulfilments on several layers. This may include several spiritual layers as well as fulfilments at several times or in several places.... |
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