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Post by Natalie on Dec 26, 2017 20:40:08 GMT -6
Thank you, yes that cleared things up.
ETA: I remembered something in Ezekiel and went and looked it up. A future prophecy of two sticks...one for Judah and one for Joseph/Ephraim...joined in God's hand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 21:51:16 GMT -6
Bad Figs
We ended our last post with the Lord bringing Esau back to the land of Canaan as an act of justice for the act of deception Jacob committed to improperly steal the birthright and the kingship from Esau. The soup finally comes back into the picture.
So while much of the prophecy world sees the formation of Israel as the fulfillment of Israel coming back into the land - it actually is God blessing Esau for a period of time to apply justice to Esau over the soup. But here is where we have conflict. Judah / Esau cannot possibly fulfill the prophecies that the teachers are applying to modern day Israel. Because the teachers assume that Israel is old Israel - the 10 tribes. But, since that is not whom modern Israel is, when those prophecies do not come to pass and the exact opposite does, it will be very confusing for the teachers of today. More on this soon.
So let’s go back just a bit.
When Jesus was born in 2 BC, he was born to the tribe of Judah. This was necessary in order to claim the right to the kingship. We had talked at one point about the four comings of Christ. The first was the in the Garden. The second was at Pentecost with Moses:
Exo 24:9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, Exo 24:10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Exo 24:11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. Exo 24:12 Now the LORD said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the law and the commandment which I have written for their instruction." Exo 24:15 Then Moses went up to the mountain, and the cloud covered the mountain. Exo 24:16 The glory of the LORD rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it for six days; and on the seventh day He called to Moses from the midst of the cloud. Exo 24:17 And to the eyes of the sons of Israel the appearance of the glory of the LORD was like a consuming fire on the mountain top. Exo 24:18 Moses entered the midst of the cloud as he went up to the mountain; and Moses was on the mountain forty days and forty nights.
The third was the 33 years Jesus spent on earth from 2 BC to 33 AD. We are waiting for the fourth. In this third appearance, Jesus told parables about the situation with Judah. Here is one such parable:
Mat 21:33 "Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey. Mat 21:34 "When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce. Mat 21:35 "The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third. Mat 21:36 "Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them. Mat 21:37 "But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' Mat 21:38 "But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' Mat 21:39 "They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Mat 21:40 "Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?" Mat 21:41 They *said to Him, "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons." Mat 21:42 Jesus *said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'? Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. Mat 21:44 "And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."
Now that you understand the kingdom - it is also clear what this parable is saying. In this proclamation, Jesus tells the leaders of Judah that the kingdom will be taken away from them. And it was. They were grafted out of the spiritual tribe of Judah and the physical kingdom was also taken away in 70 AD. But the real impact here is on the spiritual side. The reason for this is that they killed the son of the landowner. They did not chose the King of Judah in their midst.
Judah is represented by the fig tree. We see in Jeremiah 24 that Judah would be split into two groups of figs: good figs and bad figs. And in Jesus’ day, Judah was still represented by the fig tree. So when we see this story:
Luk 13:6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. Luk 13:7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?' Luk 13:8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; Luk 13:9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"
We can see that Jesus was talking about the three years of his ministry and that he saw no fruit in Judah.
Mat 21:19 Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He *said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered.
We can see that Jesus was saying that Judah would no longer grow fruit.
Mat 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; Mat 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
We can know that when Judah grows - which she has - and grows tender branches - which it seems she has - and puts forth leaves - which I believe she has done….the time is short.
But, most prophecy teachers will tell you that Judah (whom they call Israel) will bear fruit because there are a lot of prophecies that say Israel will return to the land. But these prophecies are about Israel, not Judah and they are about spiritual Israel, not physical Israel and the land that is their inheritance is themselves, not Canaan.
Stephen also drives the point home here:
Act 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. Act 7:52 "Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; Act 7:53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it."
Judah had the chance to recognize the king from the tribe of Judah. They had the chance to fulfill the proclamation that Gabriel had given to Daniel. Instead, they killed the son of the landowner at the end of Daniel’s 70th week. They failed their mission. And since 490 years had been given to them. And 490 years were up. They lost their inheritance. (I will be proving this later)
So in 2018, now what ? If Judah will not bear fruit - as prophesied by Jesus, what will happen to them? Eventually, the blessed period to make up for the injustice of Jacob will end. And Judah will lose the land again. The pattern in scripture for such situations is typically 70 years. So…1948 - 2018 You get the picture.
So what am I saying? Let’s get a few more things out of the way first.
Remember, the spiritual reality is the important one. And this nation of Judah was removed from the spiritual Judah. So, now, Judah / Edom comes and claims the name of Israel - this is illegal and an affront against God. Israel has a real spiritual meaning. Yes, God brought them to the land, but that does not give them the right to claim the precious name of Israel. If they had repented. If they had pledged allegiance to the king. If they saw Jesus as Lord. Then they could be grafted back in. But, as a nation, they are still bad figs. They are still outside the kingdom. The only way to be a true Jew now is through faith in Jesus Christ.
But who has aligned herself with modern Israel? The Christian church and America. And now, who has joined the lie and claimed that Jerusalem is the capital of modern Israel? America. With the church cheering loudly in favor. Sure. Geopolitically, Jerusalem is the capital of what used to be Israel: when David and Solomon reigned. And sure, it was the capital of Judah after that. (This is not about Palestinian rights or anything like that - this about the law and truth of who Israel is and who Israel is not.)
We are supporting the very nation that Jesus said would never bare fruit again. We are supporting the people that killed the son of the land owner. We are supporting Esau and Judah. Neither of whom is even in spiritual Israel or spiritual Judah anymore. No, indeed, Judah is against Christ. They killed Him. And to this day, they deny Him as the King and Messiah. One could even say Judah is antichrist. Just like Adam, Christianity is covering themselves with the leaves of figs (Judah). When, just like Adam, they need to be repenting. I’ll explain this more in the next post.
1Jn 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
I’ll let that sit for a bit.
But there is an even deeper problem taking place here. On top of the situation with Judah and their presence in the land as well as their use of the name Israel. We have another conflict raging. Remember the Kingdom of God? That spiritual entity that has practically vanished from our minds and memories? We are so focused on the physical, like all our ancestors before us. We see a physical Israel (which is not Israel) and a physical Jerusalem. But what about the spiritual? What has happened in that realm? How does God look upon modern Israel and physical Jerusalem? Where has God placed His name today? Where is His temple today?
I think I’ll save that for the next post, so that I can still get this one out tonight…..
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Post by MikeTaft on Dec 27, 2017 6:06:48 GMT -6
This is definitely throwing me for a head spin. I have been taught and even taught others about Modern Israel returning being the fulfillments of Jesus soon return. Jerusalem is the capital of Judah, so it makes sense why Modern Israel would declare this. Though the lineage is the truth. It always made me wonder why the tribes listed in revelation were different than those listed in the Torah (Old Testsment).
The kingship of Modern Israel is plainly clear they are Judah because even the nations flag 🇮🇱 has the star of DAVID on it. Even though they have rejected the rightful heir to the throne. I'm sure Judah/Esau still have a role to play in prophetic events. I remember a video about a boy named Stephan that had a vision and was presented to the Sanhedrin. One thing that stood out is that an army would come against Modern Israel and that it would not stand after 3 days of fighting. I wonder if there is any truth to this.
Trying to digest this as this information flips the script on most mainstream prophecy teachings today. *deeeep breath*
Ok brother, let's keep going...
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Post by mike on Dec 27, 2017 8:04:00 GMT -6
agreed MikeTaft, head in a bit of a tizzy, but it does seem to "make sense". We have been so conditioned and taught for so long about physical "Israel" and as i see the post above SK is possibly saying this is part of the great deception?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 8:35:39 GMT -6
mike and MikeTaft, I'm smiling because I am sure you are expressing what many are feeling. I did warn you that this would be a tough pill to swallow. Judah/Esau certainly do have a role to play in prophetic events. Just not the role we have been taught to expect. And absolutely, I agree from a historical perspective that Judah has the right to declare Jerusalem as her capitol. That is just historical fact. I will really get to the grit of it in the next 2 or 3 posts. I will try to get a couple out today so you all are not left hanging.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 9:00:06 GMT -6
The Controversy of Zion - Part 1 - Introduction
Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
I’m sure some of you are still chewing on the last couple of posts. They contain the great offense that I felt some of you would feel.
The coming of Judah/Edom to the land is the work of God. And it is a miraculous work. It just isn’t Israel. Judah/Edom certainly have a physical right to declare Jerusalem as their capitol. Jerusalem is the rightful capitol of Judah. And truly, modern Israel has declared Jerusalem her capitol for many years. As far as bringing forth the king - that has been taken away from them. They succeeded in bringing forth the Messiah and King. But they are no longer part of spiritual Judah and can no longer bring forth any kings. The King lives and reigns already in the spiritual kingdom. The only way for Judah to come back into the spiritual Judah - is to accept the King. And, as individuals, they eventually will. But not as a nation - else the prophecy of Jesus would fail.
So Judah coming into the land is indicative of the end times and the soon return of Jesus. But He will not return to declare physical Jerusalem His holy city - but rather, quite the opposite.
The recent change was that an America president, and therefore, America has declared Jerusalem the capitol of Israel. And all America’s Christians said, “Amen!”
I believe Trump was appointed president by God for such a time as this. I believe Trump was shaped from birth to become the man he is today and was then appointed as leader of this country in order that he might do the will of God in these days. I find it amusing that some are debating his Christianity or his status as a believer. None of that matters when it comes to carrying out God’s will. God does not need someone to believe in Him in order to do His will. And who are we to determine or even judge something like this? God knows Trumps heart. Let’s let Him be the judge.
In God’s system of justice, Esau needed to be presented with the land in order to determine if he could bring in the kingdom. This right has transferred through several kingdoms over the last 2600 years. Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, Rome - each held Judah, and as such, held the responsibility to bring in the kingdom. None succeeded and each has gone their way. Esau, because of injustice, was brought back to the land by the hand of God so that they could prove worthy or unworthy to bring in the kingdom. As of 12/27/2017 - they have proven unworthy.
We do not know the amount of time they have been given to prove themselves, but we do know that they will fail, because Judah cannot bear fruit. We also know they will fail because they have the wrong priesthood. And we know they will fail because they cannot produce sons. That is, they do not have the tribes of Joseph’s sons. My expectation is that they were given 70 years. 10 “weeks”. I base this on all the other timings and events we have been talking about over the last several months. And I base this on the Sign. They Sign displayed just after the Hebrew year began and it very well may have been proclaiming the year of the Lord. Remember - even though everyone keeps saying the woman is Israel. I say she is Zion. Therefore, I see it as signaling the resolution to the “controversy of Zion.” Did you know there was a controversy over Zion? Zion being the kingdom of God.
The controversy has two levels -
first the physical: Ishmael(Arabs) was given the opportunity to control Jerusalem and bring in the kingdom. He did not succeed. Esau (through Judah) was given the opportunity to possess Jerusalem and bring in the kingdom. He did not succeed. Three earthly religions claim roots within the walls of Jerusalem. None of them has been able to bring in the kingdom. Great kingdoms of the earth have had the chance and failed.
second the spiritual: God has removed his name from Jerusalem and placed it on His people. But His people (and, the whole world) think His name is still on physical Jerusalem.
Both levels of this controversy need to be resolved. We have forgotten about Zion. And, we have forgotten about Babylon. These spiritual entities are still raging war. The war is about to spill over into the physical.
We know this - When Jesus came the first time(The Garden) - He established the kingdom and the mandates. When Jesus came the second time (Moses Pentecost) He established the claim as the law giver and High Priest of the Most Holy God. (Priesthood mandate). When Jesus came the third time (2 BC - 33 AD), from the Tribe of Judah, He made the claim to the throne and is the rightful King. (Kingship mandate). When Jesus comes the fourth time, He will come as a Joseph work and establish the Sons of God. (Sonship mandate).
Jesus will resolve the controversy of Zion. Jesus will bring in the kingdom. He will bring the kingdom of God to Earth and reign therein. And when He does come the fourth time - which of us will be found worshiping physical Jerusalem?
If you are child of God - if you are a Son of God - who is your mother?
The recent change was that an America president, and therefore, America has declared Jerusalem the capitol of Israel. And all America’s Christians said, “Amen!”
Luk 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
They that have ears to hear - let them hear.
In the next post, we’ll finally talk about Hagar!
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Post by mike on Dec 27, 2017 9:51:55 GMT -6
SK - I am not offended by these but rather thinking. You have presented the evidence in a such a manner that is digestible. I guess 16 years of study can help one achieve that What I (and each of us) should be doing is not only reading along, but praying, reading, digesting, searching the Word and history to learn and refute (if necessary). My study of what's presented starts tonight (the bathroom can wait).
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 27, 2017 9:57:46 GMT -6
I don't know about anyone else, but this thread is actually helping me understand the restoration thread even better. It actually (to me) ties in a lot of "prophecy" loopholes and missing links together more than what we have been taught as the mainstream prophecy theories and makes a lot more sense. For example (and excuse my prophecy ignorance as I have really only been diving into this for about eight or nine months)
1. The pre-tribulation rapture: While in some cases this theory does stand up in better in scripture than some of the other theories it still has a lot of holes. IF there is a seven year "tribulation" than what will we be doing after being taken from the Earth while everyone else goes through literal hell? Having Pina Coladas on heavenly beaches and a party? Some say we prepare to come back down with Christ to do battle and defeat the anti-christ. BUT non of that is very clear in scripture in imho. Some say it will happen to turn the Jews to jealousy.
2. The current theory of the tribulation itself. In the past when God puts judgment onto the entire Earth or a city, it seems to happen rather quickly (at least from my understanding). The flood was the longest period of time but it was days (40), not years. Sodom and Gomorrah happened within a night and so on in the bible with similar happenings of destruction. I know Revelation goes in depth over the seals and the bowls and that what is attributed to the seven year tribulation. But to me some of these seals have already been opened and have been happening. I believe the current belief of seven years of absolute hell on earth ties into ET.
3. The current situation with Israel. While we seem to be seeing so much happening with Israel and what seems to be the possible alignment of Ezekiel 38, to me a little question that has always sat in the back of my mind is why would God strive to protect a people who still to this day deny Him? Who want to build a temple to sacrifice on, when the ultimate sacrifice was completed 2000 years ago. They utterly deny Him and others who believe with hatred. I have seen it. You talk to someone who obediently follows Judaism, and tell them you are a Christian and that Christ is coming for us because we have been saved by Him, they will promptly tell you the Messiah is coming to squish us like a bug because we are not His people, they are! The nation of Israel is over 70% Judaism believers. I do not have anything against them. This is what a lot of them believe.
These are just things that I question and have been unsure of for years, even before really studying like I have been over the last several months. Maybe my lack of knowledge on the subject is helping me see SK's theory in a much clearer light. I am praying about this and asking for understanding. One more thing that SK's theory does is stick with how prophecy happens in the bible and how the Jewish people understand it, as patterns, not what is going to happen or come.
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Post by mike on Dec 27, 2017 10:19:43 GMT -6
Great points cwood85 ! Like you this is tying into Restoration very nicely. You think SK was ready with this or just threw it together the past few weeks
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 27, 2017 10:29:29 GMT -6
Great points cwood85 ! Like you this is tying into Restoration very nicely. You think SK was ready with this or just threw it together the past few weeks Oh, I think he has been putting this together for a long time lol. Or he is the best impromptu writer there ever was.
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Post by MikeTaft on Dec 27, 2017 10:47:55 GMT -6
By the grace of God I'm having to unplug a lot of wires as I've been studying eschatology for YEARS! I've come 180 to truly believe in Restoration, and now I'm having to restructure my thinking of most of my understanding of biblical prophecy. It makes so much more sense from what SK said,
"Both levels of this controversy need to be resolved. We have forgotten about Zion. And, we have forgotten about Babylon. These spiritual entities are still raging war. The war is about to spill over into the physical."
This makes revelation so much more clearer, as many of the creatures discussed in Revelation are spiritual, and are about to be seen in the physical. No more calling "winged scorpions" as Apache Gunship Helicopters (never believed that theory anyways), lol.
2018 is gearing up to be an interesting year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 10:54:18 GMT -6
So, to be perfectly honest here folks, everything I have written in these three threads has come from my spirit. I have been studying these things for a long time. And I have written down some of the restoration stuff before as I shared it with other people in very small groups (1-4 people). But each post in these three threads was written from scratch. The exception would be where I copied from one thread to another if the content was similar.
This is why I needed to wait at times. Just to find time to write and to wait for the Father to give me the words. I also had to spend time looking up passages that I knew existed but had forgotten where. I was just as shocked as the rest of you to find out the Restoration thread was around 200 pages.
I don’t want to claim that it was all the word of the Lord, but I have felt the Lord leading the direction and portions of content. And I even learned some new stuff myself as I was writing it!
We can figure out together where it ends up and what it all means!
But this is why I really need you all to pray that the Lord directs me and that I wait on Him as we go through this process.
As you research this kingdom stuff you will find a lot of supposed evidence pointing to many different directions. And I can certainly provide more evidence in some areas. I wanted to move it along and so didn’t spend a lot of time proving things. But the forces that raise physical Zion up, have a lot invested in it. So you will come across concepts opposed to what I am saying.
I will go into detail on the 70 weeks because I know how critical that is to many people.
Anyway - please pray for me. And please notice also - how small the group of those who will even try to hear these messages is. Most won’t even listen, let alone believe.
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Post by mike on Dec 27, 2017 10:56:08 GMT -6
Could be wrong here but some of what I'm reading sounds similar to replacement theology. Can you correct me or address the distinction?
Edit - praying for and thanking God for you daily
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 11:14:53 GMT -6
Could be wrong here but some of what I'm reading sound similar to replacement theology. Can you correct me or address the distinction? So, somewhere, I think toward the end of the restoration thread, we had blurb about Replacement Theology. The premise of Replacement Theology is that Israel was the chosen instrument of God. Then, at some point, Israel lost her chosen-ness and was replaced by the Church. At that point, Israel became nothing and the Church became the chosen instrument of God. And now the Church is the new Israel. This is error. Dispensationalism deals with this by saying, Israel was the chosen instrument - then God stopped working with Israel and started working with the Church. And when He is done with the Church - He will go back to working with Israel. This is error. What the Kingdom of God / Restoration says is that Israel/Judah existed as spiritual entities at least since the time of Adam and maybe before. This was the church from the beginning. Over time various people were brought into this spiritual Israel/Judah. People from the old testament, people from the new testament, people from New Jersey, Texas, Italy, Spain, etc. from all periods of time. This people are the chosen people - always have been. And so can anyone else be and eventually, so will everyone else be. There is nothing to replace. Israel is still right where it always has been. Nor is there anything to go back to, it never stopped being the thing God was doing. Yes, He chose the physical children of Israel to represent, on earth, what was happening in heaven and in whom to entrust the oracles of God. But when they failed to produce the kingdom on earth, they simply faded into the same physical reality as the rest of humanity. There has always been one way to God - God's Salvation - Jeshua - Jesus. It always was the way to Israel and it is still the way to Israel today. This is why Paul talks about them being grafted out, but also being able to be grafted back in. Because the Root is not physical Israel. Need I say it? The Root is Jesus. Let me know if that helps mike.
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 27, 2017 12:00:37 GMT -6
Could be wrong here but some of what I'm reading sounds similar to replacement theology. Can you correct me or address the distinction? Edit - praying for and thanking God for you daily You and I think a lot a like sometimes mike. Thanks for the clarification @silentknight.
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