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Post by cwood85 on Dec 21, 2017 13:31:55 GMT -6
@silentknight this is great stuff!!! It is so awesome and exciting when we are able to appreciate just how intricate and meaningful and wonderful our God is, and the brilliance he weaves into reality....too cool!!! Now I am just starving to know about this soup bit... Lentil soup is pretty delicious lol. All this talk about it today has me on my way to a little Mediterranean place up the road! This is a great thread SK!
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 21, 2017 14:56:01 GMT -6
Hope this is ok to post here @silentknight. If not, please feel free to remove. This is a video paulwatchmandawson posted on his YouTube channel that explains a lot of what SK is referring to the kingdom being all around us and our current understanding of different dimensions in a much better explanation than what I can offer
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 17:55:48 GMT -6
Father Abraham
I promise this is not just a history lesson - but we need to lay out this history in order for the point to be made.
Before there was Abraham, there was Abram. Before there was Sarah, there was Sarai.
One night, God spoke to Abram:
Gen 15:4 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This man[Eliezer] will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir." Gen 15:5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
But even Abram was still having issues with his walk of faith and so over time, he and Sarai decided that since God wasn’t going to fulfill what He said and give Abram a son, they would take matters into their own hands. Since the spiritual world wasn’t working - they decided to overcome in the physical world. Hmmm.. I could take the time to teach a small lesson here, but this audience is astute! So I’ll just repeat the line and move on. Since the spiritual world wasn’t working - they decided to overcome in the physical world. Whatever is not of faith, is sin. Not a good move Abram.
Sarai, gave her bondservant to Abram as a wife, and Abram had a son with his wife, Hagar. It is important to know that Hagar was Abraham's wife. She was a bondservant, but still legally his wife.
Now Agar was from Egypt. It is likely that she was provided to Sarai as compensation for the error that Pharaoh made in taking Sarai as his wife when Abram failed to inform pharaoh that Sarai was Abram’s wife.
Gen 16:15 So Hagar bore Abram a son; and Abram called the name of his son, whom Hagar bore, Ishmael.
Abram, through the Egyptian Hagar, had a son, and they named him Ishmael. But this is not the child of promise - this is the child of Egypt. God needs to show up again and remind Abram that He would provide Abram and Sarai a son from their own loins. Only this time, God came in person to make sure there was no mistake!
Gen 17:4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. Gen 17:5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. Gen 17:6 "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you.
Gen 17:15 Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. Gen 17:16 "I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her." Gen 17:18 And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!" Gen 17:19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. Gen 17:20 "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. Gen 17:21 "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."
We see a couple things happening here: 1. Confirmation of the blessing that Melchizedek had placed upon Abram 2. Changing the name to add an H to Sarai and Abram - Sarah and Abraham - this added the breath of God, the spirit. (say the sound an h makes at the beginning of a word - like hello, but don’t pronounce the vowel. 3. The Sonship mandate stated - “make you exceedingly fruitful” 4. The Kingship mandate stated - “kings will come forth from you” 5. Ishmael also would be blessed - but would not be the child of promise
As God promised, Sarah had a son, and they called him Isaac.
Gen 21:2 So Sarah conceived and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the appointed time of which God had spoken to him. Gen 21:3 Abraham called the name of his son who was born to him, whom Sarah bore to him, Isaac.
Ishmael was born of the physical effort of Hagar and Abram. Isaac was born of the spiritual effort of God to Sarah and Abraham.
Sarah was jealous of Ishmael and Hagar and made Abraham send them away, but God protected Ishmael and eventually he married an Egyptian like his mother.
A wife was found for Isaac - in what I have always seen as a touching, love at first sight, story. The words are few, but precious. Sarah had died, Abraham bought her a field with a cave, in which to lay her down. Isaac had found a home of his own, having survived his father’s attempt to sacrifice him. Abraham sent a servant to find a wife for Isaac. Ishmael was nearby. Then one evening, Isaac went out to meditate.
Gen 24:63 Isaac went out to meditate in the field toward evening; and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, camels were coming. Gen 24:64 Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac she dismounted from the camel. Gen 24:65 She said to the servant, "Who is that man walking in the field to meet us?" And the servant said, "He is my master." Then she took her veil and covered herself. Gen 24:67 Then Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and he took Rebekah, and she became his wife, and he loved her; thus Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.
It touches me that they, from a distance, both lifted up their eyes and SAW each other, for the first time. I believe we, ourselves will experience this, when our Isaac comes for us. She covers her face, being a bride and they become one. And He loved her. Yeah, I'm bawling now.....
And just to finish off this story with another touching point, Abraham died and was buried next to Sarah, in a cave over looking Mamre - the field Abraham had bought Sarah. And he was buried by his two sons - Isaac and Ishmael.
I don’t know why I am crying right now - but this marriage and the following death of Abraham to be buried next to his wife by his two sons - one which he almost sacrificed and the other which he had driven away from home - touches me.
Isaac now carried the birthright. Shem was gone. Abraham was gone. The kingdom mandates fell upon Isaac. Ishmael was not part of this mandate. But Ishmael still had a part to play - and is still playing his part to this day. Oh the webs we weave when we walk outside of faith.
We’ll take up with Isaac in the next section ……
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 21, 2017 18:39:58 GMT -6
@pillarofsaultgoodman WELCOME!!!!! Merry Christmas!! What a blessing these couple of posts by Sk have been. Love all that come here, but am grateful there are those who are interjecting that are "new member" by forum standards to posting. And if you pillar, have been here longer than "new" you know you are coming across a buffet of Prime Rib, Roasted Lamb, and delicious duck. Hope you are not a vegetarian. This is about the extent of my humor, as this is so critical & serious to me and I KNOW also it is so to the others that I know are following. Ok, so I have read Gen 1 so many times I can not remember...fig flew right over my head! Really?! Not one Word of the Bible is void. standing by for why you bolded this word... and in re: to the scrolls...Mom and Hazel got all excited as they equated the pit and the ox dying in it and the ownership story of that to the only one found worthy to open the scroll and that was the Lamb of God, the crucified Christ, the one who now had the deed. This is what both of them learned in study before. And this adds more to my agreement with rt that the scroll was opened after Christ rose, at least the first few... but no derailing! sitting down, patiently....waiting....the next post
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 21, 2017 18:52:20 GMT -6
@pillarofsaultgoodman WELCOME!!!!! Merry Christmas!! What a blessing these couple of posts by Sk have been. Love all that come here, but am grateful there are those who are interjecting that are "new member" by forum standards to posting. And if you pillar, have been here longer than "new" you know you are coming across a buffet of Prime Rib, Roasted Lamb, and delicious duck. Hope you are not a vegetarian. This is about the extent of my humor, as this is so critical & serious to me and I KNOW also it is so to the others that I know are following. Ok, so I have read Gen 1 so many times I can not remember...fig flew right over my head! Really?! Not one Word of the Bible is void. standing by for why you bolded this word... and in re: to the scrolls...Mom and Hazel got all excited as they equated the pit and the ox dying in it and the ownership story of that to the only one found worthy to open the scroll and that was the Lamb of God, the crucified Christ, the one who now had the deed. This is what both of them learned in study before. And this adds more to my agreement with rt that the scroll was opened after Christ rose, at least the first few... but no derailing! sitting down, patiently....waiting....the next post barbiosheepgirl you are so fortunate to to have family you can talk to about this kind of stuff My family has become very divided over discussing scriptures in recent years. Once in a great while my husband will talk, but in very small doses and In all honesty it is me doing most of the talking...
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 21, 2017 19:46:05 GMT -6
cw, unfortunately, my husband is currently not walking the pentacostal walk right now. However, I do feel he is in the middle of the floor of the Red Sea with the walls of water on either side of him. I am almost borderline too much on unsealed to where he is kinda concerned about my time here, but I have faith in the HS to resolve his concern about my fellowship on Unsealed.
but Yes, mom lives next door on our place, and her best friend is visiting for thru the new year. She was my sower.
cw, has the burden of your family actually been lifted a little, though? After all, it is truly in His Hands, the WHOLE thing. As we are learning here, if we can recognize where people are at in their winnowing we can better target our prayers for them, but also too, we know that it is God's doing of where they are on things. Teach them that! Some are gonna come to Him kicking and screaming, and holding the door frame in resistance, others will be running to him! The whole world IS in His Hands!
"He's got the Whole World in His Hands"...ah those crazy songs of the 60's...or was that the 70's. I was born in '68..
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 21, 2017 20:42:19 GMT -6
cw, unfortunately, my husband is currently not walking the pentacostal walk right now. However, I do feel he is in the middle of the floor of the Red Sea with the walls of water on either side of him. I am almost borderline too much on unsealed to where he is kinda concerned about my time here, but I have faith in the HS to resolve his concern about my fellowship on Unsealed. but Yes, mom lives next door on our place, and her best friend is visiting for thru the new year. She was my sower. cw, has the burden of your family actually been lifted a little, though? After all, it is truly in His Hands, the WHOLE thing. As we are learning here, if we can recognize where people are at in their winnowing we can better target our prayers for them, but also too, we know that it is God's doing of where they are on things. Teach them that! Some are gonna come to Him kicking and screaming, and holding the door frame in resistance, others will be running to him! The whole world IS in His Hands! "He's got the Whole World in His Hands"...ah those crazy songs of the 60's...or was that the 70's. I was born in '68.. In the last month or two discussions with some of my family has eased a little, in small doses. SK's Restoration thread has actually helped in my understanding and discussing scripture a lot. Yes it is truly in His hands and easing the tensions in discussing scripture is in my prayers often to Him regarding my family, especially my husband. All this stuff going on with Israel has gotten my husbands attention and asking questions.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 21, 2017 21:10:03 GMT -6
DITTO in my house!!!!! cw, that is the same thing happening to my husband, questions coming out of his mouth about Israel! That is why I said he is standing in the parted sea, but has not set up camp on the other side, well, at least I am not seeing that there is a campfire and a bedroll of his there by the shoreline..(I am referencing the Promise Land analogy from the Restore thread, for those of you wondering "what is she saying?")
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 22:50:21 GMT -6
Sibling RivalrySo far, not one of the kings of earth have been able to bring in the kingdom. Not in its fullest anyway. Abraham had some moments. But still failed the mission. But I am being a bit unfair to these people. They didn’t really know the mission. It wasn’t like God had written it down and said, here is what you are supposed to do. But, as we walk with the Lord - we do begin to understand the mission. As we come into agreement through obedience to His voice, we also begin to see the bigger picture and what role we may plan within the final manifestation of the kingdom. We have this statement about Abraham: Gen 17:1 Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless.
What an instruction! Sure God, I’ll get right on that. But, I offer you a secret. Very often, when we see a command like this - it is actually a promise. God knows we cannot be blameless in our flesh. But He is making a spiritual promise. Walk with me - and be blameless. It is the same promise offered to us today. But like the men of ancient times, we are carnal and have a difficult time thinking in the spiritual. So the kingdom slipped more and more into the mystery. Isaac and Rebekah had trouble conceiving. But eventually, Gen 25:21 Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived. Gen 25:22 But the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If it is so, why then am I this way?" So she went to inquire of the LORD. Gen 25:23 The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger." Gen 25:24 When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. Gen 25:25 Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau. Gen 25:26 Afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau's heel, so his name was called Jacob; and Isaac was sixty years old when she gave birth to them.
So Esau comes out first - he will become the holder of the birthright. His name means rough, or hairy. Jacob comes out grabbing onto Esau’s heel. Something he will do for many years to come, always trying to take what is not his and so his name means, the supplanter. Lest we lose track of the topic in the midst of all this history, let me clarify. The mandates are the expectation of God. They can really be thought of as the purpose of creation - to produce a kingdom that brings the spiritual Kingdom of God into the physical realm - to merge the two. How many times have we quoted the Lords prayer by rote, not even realizing we were praying this very thing: Mat 6:10 'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
Your Kingdom Come - Your will be done - On EARTH as it is in HEAVEN. These weren’t just poetic words that our savior asked us to pray. This is the very heart of what is happening. But that message hid more and more deeply in our consciousness to the point where it has been forgotten. So now we live in a physical world and we can’t wait to get to heaven. We see no value in the physical on one hand - we can’t wait to escape it. But then on the other hand, we raise the physical to such high value when it comes to trying to be righteous or trying to achieve the work of the church. And we do the same thing when we think about the end of days and what is to take place. And therein lies the point of this whole thread. But, now that I have given you a taste - I must go back to foundation building. You will not agree if I just blurt out the destination. But you may appreciate the result if I take you on the journey. So as Esau and Jacob grew up, the understanding of these things was limited in their mind as well. They knew they were of the line of very special men of old and that the birthright carried importance for spiritual, financial, and governmental establishment. It was a big deal to own the birthright. But they did not recognize the more spiritual nature of these things - spiritual = priesthood, financial = sonship, governmental = kingship. And so, when one day, Esau stumbled into camp, hungry and tired and smelled that good old Mediterranean lentil stew being cooked up by Jacob, he just had to have some. There are traditions and pseudo-history books that tell of a deeper story, but I don’t want to distract from our point by going into them. Whatever the reason - Esau decided that his birthright was less important than that stew. And, it is that very stew that has us in the pickle we are in today. Gen 25:28 Now Isaac loved Esau, because he had a taste for game, but Rebekah loved Jacob. Gen 25:29 When Jacob had cooked stew, Esau came in from the field and he was famished; Gen 25:30 and Esau said to Jacob, "Please let me have a swallow of that red stuff there, for I am famished." Therefore his name was called Edom. Gen 25:31 But Jacob said, "First sell me your birthright." Gen 25:32 Esau said, "Behold, I am about to die; so of what use then is the birthright to me?" Gen 25:33 And Jacob said, "First swear to me"; so he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Jacob. Gen 25:34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew; and he ate and drank, and rose and went on his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright.
He asked for “that red stuff there”. Sounds like my boys -“gimme some that there stuff to put in my face.” And because he asked for it that way, (and I’m sure never heard the end of that day) he was called Edom - red. So, imagine a week later, when Esau was walking down the road and the news had gone out that he gave it all up for a bowl of stew. His neighbor would call out - Hey Red. How’s that birthright?. And this went on and on, I would imagine for very long time. Long enough that eventually, it became the name of the nation he established. In Greek, it is called Idumea. We see here: Gen 36:6 Then Esau took his wives and his sons and his daughters and all his household, and his livestock and all his cattle and all his goods which he had acquired in the land of Canaan, and went to another land away from his brother Jacob. Gen 36:7 For their property had become too great for them to live together, and the land where they sojourned could not sustain them because of their livestock. Gen 36:8 So Esau lived in the hill country of Seir; Esau is Edom. Gen 36:9 These then are the records of the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir.
After disputes with the locals Esau/Edom gained control of the entire area around Mount Seir - an area located south of the Dead Sea all the way to the Gulf of Aqaba on the Red Sea. From this same linage came the Amalekites - the ones that attacked Moses when he came across the Red sea many years later, just before Pentecost the year of the Exodus. But now we are way ahead of ourselves. Let’s get back to the soup. Jacob, the supplanter, fulfilled his name and took the birthright for a very cheap price - was that acceptable to the Lord? Most of us would say, based on history, Yes. Clearly, God wanted to work through Jacob. But let’s slow down just a little. Remember, God's Will consists of two parts, His desire, and His plan. He did tell Rebekah that the elder would serve the younger, so we know that was His plan, but His desire was for Jacob to be righteous. There is a law: (oh wait, before I quote the law- some of you are new to my writing and will not understand my perspective of the law. I hate to retype it every time, so please go here and see my perspective. And for you sticklers who will say, the law didn’t exist yet. The law of God has always existed. ) Lev 25:14 'If you make a sale, moreover, to your friend or buy from your friend's hand, you shall not wrong one another.
Jacob stood to gain everything that Isaac owned and had authority over. All for a bowl of soup. He was taking advantage of the weak state of Esau’s flesh and that made the purchase unlawful. We will come back to this - keep it mind. But, the agreement stood - and physically, Jacob inherited Canaan and all that came with it. Spiritually, Jacob inherited the sonship mandate. Repeating - the mandates are:1. to bring in the kingdom of God on earth - Kingship 2. to manifest the immortal sons of God on the earth - Sonship (birthright) 3. to initiate the Priests of the Most High God on the earth - Priesthood The physical land of Canaan was only a shadow of the actual promised land, flowing with milk and honey. It represented a spiritual land - the new man - the sons of God. But this had long been forgotten. And today, when we use the term sons of God, we mean something that will happen in heaven. Or we diminish its meaning altogether by saying we are all children of God, now. But remember, there is more to come - Rom 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
This has not happened yet. The kingdom has yet to come to earth. The sons have yet to be manifested. The priesthood has yet to be populated. So, let’s get back to the story so I can finish before it actually does manifest - because the hour is quickly approaching!
Jacob now owned the birthright - the sonship mandate. But Esau could still be king. Well, once again, Jacob the supplanter robbed him. When it came time for Isaac’s final blessing on his sons - where he would bless them according to their birth order and deliver the kingship unto his eldest son, Esau was tricked by his brother. Normally, all the mandates would go to the eldest - but in this case everyone knew about the deal Red had made for the birthright, and so what was left of the blessing was the kingship. The right to rule. Now, for those playing along at home - see if you can find all the elements in the passage below: (note, we join the excitement after Isaac sent Esau out to kill game to eat and receive the kingship blessing) Gen 27:15 Then Rebekah took the best garments of Esau her elder son, which were with her in the house, and put them on Jacob her younger son.Gen 27:16 And she put the skins of the young goats on his hands and on the smooth part of his neck.Gen 27:17 She also gave the savory food and the bread, which she had made, to her son Jacob.Gen 27:18 Then he came to his father and said, "My father." And he said, "Here I am. Who are you, my son?"Gen 27:19 Jacob said to his father, "I am Esau your firstborn; I have done as you told me. Get up, please, sit and eat of my game, that you may bless me."Gen 27:20 Isaac said to his son, "How is it that you have it so quickly, my son?" And he said, "Because the LORD your God caused it to happen to me."Gen 27:21 Then Isaac said to Jacob, "Please come close, that I may feel you, my son, whether you are really my son Esau or not."Gen 27:22 So Jacob came close to Isaac his father, and he felt him and said, "The voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau."Gen 27:23 He did not recognize him, because his hands were hairy like his brother Esau's hands; so he blessed him.Gen 27:24 And he said, "Are you really my son Esau?" And he said, "I am."Gen 27:25 So he said, "Bring it to me, and I will eat of my son's game, that I may bless you." And he brought it to him, and he ate; he also brought him wine and he drank.Gen 27:26 Then his father Isaac said to him, "Please come close and kiss me, my son."Gen 27:27 So he came close and kissed him; and when he smelled the smell of his garments, he blessed him and said, "See, the smell of my son Is like the smell of a field which the LORD has blessed;Gen 27:28 Now may God give you of the dew of heaven, And of the fatness of the earth, And an abundance of grain and new wine;Gen 27:29 May peoples serve you, And nations bow down to you; Be master of your brothers, And may your mother's sons bow down to you. Cursed be those who curse you, And blessed be those who bless you."Gen 27:30 Now it came about, as soon as Isaac had finished blessing Jacob, and Jacob had hardly gone out from the presence of Isaac his father, that Esau his brother came in from his hunting.Gen 27:31 Then he also made savory food, and brought it to his father; and he said to his father, "Let my father arise and eat of his son's game, that you may bless me."Gen 27:32 Isaac his father said to him, "Who are you?" And he said, "I am your son, your firstborn, Esau."Gen 27:33 Then Isaac trembled violently, and said, "Who was he then that hunted game and brought it to me, so that I ate of all of it before you came, and blessed him? Yes, and he shall be blessed."Gen 27:34 When Esau heard the words of his father, he cried out with an exceedingly great and bitter cry, and said to his father, "Bless me, even me also, O my father!"Gen 27:35 And he said, "Your brother came deceitfully and has taken away your blessing."Gen 27:36 Then he said, "Is he not rightly named Jacob, for he has supplanted me these two times? He took away my birthright, and behold, now he has taken away my blessing." And he said, "Have you not reserved a blessing for me?"Gen 27:37 But Isaac replied to Esau, "Behold, I have made him your master, and all his relatives I have given to him as servants; and with grain and new wine I have sustained him. Now as for you then, what can I do, my son?"Gen 27:38 Esau said to his father, "Do you have only one blessing, my father? Bless me, even me also, O my father." So Esau lifted his voice and wept.Gen 27:39 Then Isaac his father answered and said to him, "Behold, away from the fertility of the earth shall be your dwelling, And away from the dew of heaven from above.Gen 27:40 "By your sword you shall live, And your brother you shall serve; But it shall come about when you become restless, That you will break his yoke from your neck."Gen 27:41 So Esau bore a grudge against Jacob because of the blessing with which his father had blessed him; and Esau said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are near; then I will kill my brother Jacob."What a travesty. First Abraham, then Jacob, work in the flesh to accomplish the purpose of God. But this situation, which started with stew and ended with a curse, is very alive and active today. We have confused all the players. And we have neglected to understand the spiritual side of the kingdom because it has been buried in mystery. But we are making headway in the story, for soon Jacob will receive his new name. And then, for the first time in this kingdom tale - we will utter the name of Israel. For now, we have two men and their associated nations - split off from the kingdom, due to acts of rebellion that were still within the plan of God: Ishmael and Esau. And we have one man, upon which the fate of the kingdom now rides - Jacob. A spoiled son who lies and cheats his way to being the father of Israel! But God is not mocked. Injustice was done to both of Ishmael and Esau and we shall see that God is making things right - even in these latter days.
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Post by domagb on Dec 22, 2017 0:45:20 GMT -6
The Kingdom of God is the government of Godwww.gospel-kingdom.com/pb/wp_979468c0/wp_979468c0.htmlThe Kingdom of God is the government of God. It's a position of authority. When you are saved you become a citizen in the Kingdom, but are NOT yet in the government of the Kingdom. Ephesians 2: NKJV 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
But Jesus offers each saved person a place in the Kingdom, IF he overcomes: Rev 2: MKJV 26 And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations. 27 And he will rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.
How do you overcome? John 1:12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
Do you see the distinction in that last verse? From those who had already received Him, to those who have power to become sons. How do you become a son? Heb 12: 1: ... let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2: Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith... 3: For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, unless you be wearied and faint in your minds. 4: You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5: And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked of him: 6: For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. 7: If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? 8: But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons.
So, to be a son you need to: 1: Lay aside sin that seeks to catch you 2: Run with patience the race set before you 3: Look to Jesus who will finish your faith and look at how He endured 4: Receive correction from God Remember Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords, who are the kings and lords? Gal 4: 1: Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2: But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 6: And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7: Wherefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. We are heirs with Christ, but until the appointed time of the Father, of whom decides when the rapture takes place. We are under tutors and governors training us to be authorities in the Kingdom. So what happens to those who are saved but are not in the Kingdom? Luke 14: NKJV 34 "Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"
They are not fit for the land which is the Kingdom, nor are they fit for the dunghill which is Hell or the Lake of Fire, so they are cast out. Out where? Rev 21: MKJV 24 And the nations of those who are saved will walk in the light of it; and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no way enter into it anything that defiles, or any making an abomination or a lie; but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
Rev 22: NKJV 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie
These scriptures are talking about New Jerusalem, the city of God, which is in heaven and shall come upon the new earth when all is done. Those who are saved and are not in the Kingdom are outside the city. Their glories or treasures are brought in, but they are not allowed inside themselves. Inside the city is the Tree of Life and its leaves are for the healing of the nations. To enter you must obey God's commandments. Let's look at this parable: Luke 19: 12 (NKJV) Therefore He said: "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 (WEB) He called ten servants of his, and gave them ten mina coins, and told them, 'Conduct business until I come.' 14 (MKJV) But his citizens hated him. And they sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this one to reign over us. 15 (NKJV) "And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, "Master, your mina has earned ten minas.' 17 And he said to him, "Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.' 18 And the second came, saying, "Master, your mina has earned five minas.' 19 Likewise he said to him, "You also be over five cities.' 20 "Then another came, saying, "Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 (MKJV) For I feared you, because you are a harsh man. You take up what you did not lay down, and you reap what you did not sow. 22 And he said to him, I will judge you out of your own mouth, wicked servant! You knew that I was a harsh man, taking up what I had not laid down and reaping what I did not sow. 23 (NKJV) Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?' 24 "And he said to those who stood by, "Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.' 25 (But they said to him, "Master, he has ten minas.') 26 "For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me."'In this parable you see 2 individuals who will be given authority in the Kingdom. You also see another who loses what he has. Then the Lord speaks of another group of people He calls "His enemies", those who refuse completely to be ruled by Him. He has them slain. In this parable you have 3 groups of people; Kingdom sons, saved individuals, and enemies. This shows us clearly that there at least these 3 distinct groups of people with separate and different judgments for each group. 1 Cor 3: MKJV 1 ¶ And I, brothers, could not speak to you as to spiritual ones, but as to fleshly, as to babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk and not with solid food, for you were not yet able to bear it ; nor are you able even now. 3 For you are yet carnal. For in that there is among you envyings and strife and divisions, are you not carnal, and do you not walk according to men? 4 For while one says, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are you not carnal?We know that they were christians because he said in verse 1: "babes in Christ". Carnal, is fleshly, opposite of spiritual. Being ruled by the body or mind rather than by the Spirit. So that scripture shows the difference between spiritual christians, carnal christians, and baby christians. Read what Jesus says about these carnal christians: Math 7: 21: Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? 23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.Doing good things in the name of the Lord does nothing to advance the Kingdom of God. It may promote your ministry but not Jesus' ministry. Suffice it to say that many "good" deeds done in the name of the Lord are actually dead works. The carnal christian seeks his own life or soul rather than God's will. Here are some scriptures pertaining to the carnal christian: Math 10: MKJV 39 He who finds his life shall lose it. And he who loses his life for My sake shall find it. Math 16: NKJV 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Luke 9: MKJV 23 And He said to all, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me.Jesus is a rock of offense, (the harsh Man from the parable above). He will offend the fleshly mind. What will you do with this Rock/Stone? 1 Pet 2: MKJV 6 Therefore also it is contained in the Scripture: "Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner Stone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him shall never be ashamed." 7 Therefore to you who believe is the honor. But to those who are disobedient, He is the Stone which the builders rejected; this One came to be the Head of the corner, 8 and a Stone-of-stumbling and a Rock-of-offense to those disobeying, who stumble at the word, to which they also were appointed.
So this is the choice given to every believer: Math 21: MKJV 44 And he who falls on this Stone shall be broken, but on whomever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. Luke 20: MKJV 18 Whoever shall fall on that Stone shall be broken, but on whomever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."Those who fall on the Rock and deny themselves in this life will be in the government of God, called the Kingdom.
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Post by mike on Dec 22, 2017 9:02:55 GMT -6
@silentknight - I just wanted to interject something that stood out as "thought provoking" from page 1.
The Nimrod/Shem connection - there is a lot of information on Nimrod in extra-biblical and "folklore/legend" sources available on various spots on line. While I am not saying these viewpoints should be considered as canon and we should not be dogmatic about it I did find that the content interesting given the context of Nimrod being a (or perhaps the first) type of anti-christ. Along with that we have Shem who is likely Melchizedek as you portray on page 1:
“The false religion formed at the Tower of Babel was the beginning of polytheism – the worship of many gods. The snake, the sun, and fire were also worshipped as deities. Human sacrifice was practiced. Nimrod, through the Babylonian empire and religion, began to unite the people into his own one-world government. Noah’s righteous son Shem, unable to further tolerate the apostate religion formed by Nimrod murdered him, cut his body into pieces, and scattered the parts throughout the Babylonian empire as a warning to others of what would happen to them if they continued this abominable false religion.”
the story of Shem murdering Nimrod is in the book of Jasher. Again this book is not considered biblical canon, however is mentioned in Joshua, meaning the stories contained therein were known by the patriarchs of old.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 9:07:45 GMT -6
thanks domagb for your contribution.
By nature, I am a story teller. I find that information is good, but information housed within understanding is better. So my efforts are typically driven toward developing a person's understanding first - and then delivering the information.
When providing information - one has provided information. When providing understanding - one has provided the means for people to discover information on their own and to determine the validity of information they hear.
I have found "stories" to be a way to build understanding. We may, eventually get to some of the points you have made, but when we do, it will be with a foundation upon which to lay them. This may be a boring process for some, I suppose. There are likely people that wish I would just jump to the end of the story. It would certainly be easier. But then I, like so many others, would be just stating my opinion - with no basis upon which to deny or embrace. Verses are great, but remember, for every verse there is someone who has an opposing verse. So we must build our understanding in order to interpret the verses as intended.
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Saying the Kingdom of God is the government of God is sort of like saying America is government. Sure, that is an element of America, but she is so much more - she is people, she is values, she has land, she has spirit, she has purpose, she has a mission, she has a destiny. She did not show up over night, she was built and broken, and built again. And she has a government by which she is governed.
If, I came, as a new citizen to America and was brought to Washington, D.C. and presented with the government. Would I know America? No. I would need to see the sky line of New York, the red earth of Arizona deserts, the endless Montana sky, the sublime majesty of the Tetons, the deep secrets of the Appalachians, the rebel spirit of the Ozarks, the stern character of the northern plains in winter, the heart of the prairie, the spirit of the Mississippi delta, the soul of the wheat fields, the spontaneity of the west coast, and the traditions of the east coast. I would need to talk to her people. Work in her offices. Play in her parks. Over time, I would begin to understand who America is, why she is, and what my purpose is, in being part of her. She is so much more than the three branches of government.
So also, is the Kingdom of God.
Stay tuned - more to come.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 9:15:41 GMT -6
mike . Good points. Jasher has Esau murdering Nimrod - not Shem. This is actually the context that Jasher places right before Esau comes into camp and needs to eat the stew. This is why he is so famished, he has just run for his life from Nimrods henchmen. He has also stolen the royal garments that Ham (Nimrods grandpa) stole from Noah. This is interesting information and may or may not be accurate - like any book of history. I have no reason to believe it is not true any more than I have to not believe another history book. However, I have found that because some people use Enoch and Jasher as "almost" scripture, anytime that someone mentions these books, the listener may assume that I am attaching the equivalence to scripture - even if I explain that I am not. So, I do tend to avoid giving information that can only be found in those books. These books can add some color and often help with dating events. But for some people, simply mentioning them is enough for them to discount anything else one says. I would rather avoid that and simply stick to scripture when I teach. But for those that can separate these things in their spirit, you may find Jasher and Enoch interesting reads - but there are some forged versions of these books as well. So make sure you get the official ones. Constantly remind yourselves - you are reading history, not scripture.
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Post by mike on Dec 22, 2017 9:44:36 GMT -6
gotcha! I'm not sure where I got that story from but you are correct Jasher states it was Esau. Again I agree the extra-biblical stuff is though provoking. Some see it as color others dismiss outright. I do like it for helping set context and dates, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 9:51:36 GMT -6
gotcha! I'm not sure where I got that story from but you are correct Jasher states it was Esau. Again I agree the extra-biblical stuff is though provoking. Some see it as color others dismiss outright. I do like it for helping set context and dates, etc. You may have gotten the Shem killed Nimrod from Josephus. He states that. And therein lies the problem with history books. History is written by the victors!
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