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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 13:33:50 GMT -6
Why the heated debate? It seems that we are in the pre-tribulation period of time and the full blown tribulation is right around the corner. Is the tribulation only upon the people of the world and not upon the saints of God? No. Thus, the tribulation is upon some of the saints of God now; however, we are not yet in the final seven years. Thus, after the seven years then Lord Jesus rules and there is peace for 1,000 years. The seven years is the transitional period in which Satan is bound and he can no longer torment mankind. The first 3.5 is Satan's final push for world domination, and the second 3.5 is rule under Lord Jesus in which the world at large rebels. boraddict - the heated debate is because the OP wished for a heated debate. His Gloves Are Off (GAO) mentality was a spirit of division not one of teaching, debate, or apologetical analysis. We may be like sheep - but we have a powerful shepherd! |
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Post by kjs on Dec 7, 2017 15:12:26 GMT -6
Why the heated debate? It seems that we are in the pre-tribulation period of time and the full blown tribulation is right around the corner. Is the tribulation only upon the people of the world and not upon the saints of God? No. Thus, the tribulation is upon some of the saints of God now; however, we are not yet in the final seven years. Thus, after the seven years then Lord Jesus rules and there is peace for 1,000 years. The seven years is the transitional period in which Satan is bound and he can no longer torment mankind. The first 3.5 is Satan's final push for world domination, and the second 3.5 is rule under Lord Jesus in which the world at large rebels. boraddict: Please take some time to read ALL of Matt 24 ... it will clear up some of your apparent confusion of what the Last Seven Years is all about. First the Last Seven Years is specifically about Israel. It is also known as Jacob's trouble, Daniels 70th week ... and is for the return of Israel to God (Paul speaks about it in Romans -- when ALL Israel will be saved. The Last Seven years -- have nothing to do with the Church (Or the Body of Christ) -- and other than knowing for sure we (Body of Christ) will NOT be here on earth at that time.... We do know that Jesus himself further defined that seven year period -- specifically the last THREE and Half portion as THE GREAT TRIBULATION. We can see this in Matt 24: 15 “So when you see the destructive desecration, mentioned by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place..."Jesus states that this one event is THE START of the Great Tribulation. He goes on and says "21 because at that time there will be great suffering,[h] the kind that hasn’t happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly won’t ever happen again...."So do you see boraddict: that your theory of "and the second 3.5 is rule under Lord Jesus in which the world at large rebels. " goes against the very teaching of Jesus Christ? The LAST Seven Years is NOT the Great Tribulation -- the Great Tribulation is only the Last 3.5 years on this earth. How do we know the LAST Seven Years are only for Israel? BECAUSE scripture specifically says the START of those Seven Years is when a MAN (some say Anti-Christ) -- confirms a Seven year treaty with Israel .... What that "confirms" means is a whole another issue -- with many opinions on. Please note it is Israel -- who is told the START -- based upon a seven year treaty with them..... It is also why many speculate one of the "missing wars" -- is finished just before the Start (Ezekiel 38 / Psalm (think 82)) -- are the missing wars.... Ok, go back to the debate .... just had to make sure people know the Great Trib (Last 3.5 years) IS NOT ruled under Jesus........ |
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Post by yardstick on Dec 7, 2017 16:33:02 GMT -6
Psalm 83*, with a potential for Isaiah 17 (destruction of Damascus) which could scare the surrounding nations enough to ensure 'peace and safety' for 7 years...
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Post by boraddict on Dec 7, 2017 17:46:07 GMT -6
I think there must be several camps of analysis on this subject. Does anyone have a complete understanding of all of these theories? I am saying theories because they all can not be correct and perhaps none are completely correct.
One thing for certain is that bible prophecy is being fulfilled via the destruction of Damascus.
I for one would like to see things move along a little faster. Is that bad to say?
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Post by yardstick on Dec 7, 2017 19:39:17 GMT -6
I think there must be several camps of analysis on this subject. Does anyone have a complete understanding of all of these theories? I am saying theories because they all can not be correct and perhaps none are completely correct. One thing for certain is that bible prophecy is being fulfilled via the destruction of Damascus. I for one would like to see things move along a little faster. Is that bad to say? No one has a corner on the market with respect to interpretation (or the creation of hypotheses). There are a gazillion variants to the hyotheses/theories, sprinkled through the boards. There are many who echo your "hurry up" sentiments. |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 7, 2017 21:05:45 GMT -6
I think there must be several camps of analysis on this subject. Does anyone have a complete understanding of all of these theories? I am saying theories because they all can not be correct and perhaps none are completely correct. One thing for certain is that bible prophecy is being fulfilled via the destruction of Damascus. I for one would like to see things move along a little faster. Is that bad to say? Some days I feel that way... other days I feel like whoa slow down a little bit because SO much happens! |
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Post by boraddict on Dec 8, 2017 0:07:26 GMT -6
Sorry Natalie but I have to chime in and address boraddict on rule #1 as well as there is a piece missing in the analysis as well as scriptural item I would like for her to confirm for us. Views on the timing of the rapture differ and discussion on those is very beneficial to all. "Pre", "Mid" & "Post" are the most common with a few variants of "mid" in the mix (that we won't get into here). However, I am interested to see where in scripture you derive that there are 3 separate raptures as you note in the quote below. I would also like to know where you arrive at the Northwest US when 1 Thes 4:17 tells us we are caught to the air with the Lord. I believe we have touched on this point elsewhere boraddict and noted that whether someone is looking, watching or waiting is not the criteria to be caught up. The criteria is faith in the atonement of Christ, period. Hi Mike, I have been working on a harmonization for Rev. Chapters 6-19 in my chiasmus thread. I have not added all the detail that I would like to add; however, it is enough to show how I arrived at my rapture analysis. I guess there are not three raptures in the traditional sense of the word. However, the third is a true and complete rapture as you have stated; whereas the first two are more like gatherings of Israel. I have not started working on the Yellowstone analysis yet. I think of it as Yellowstone because that is the great national park of the west. So when I get to that I will provide my supporting analysis. |
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Post by witness1 on Dec 12, 2017 7:13:50 GMT -6
Greg Lauer has an incredible article looking at the 24 elders and how they MUST be the church. At the end of it (2/3+ of the way down), he has an incredible section on our roles as priests and kings in heaven. It reminded me of this thread. www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2015/1505-gang.htmIt is absolutely worth reading even though it's long. I think Greg has shown incredible wisdom throughout this journey and he drew the same conclusions as daniel. |
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Post by daniel on Dec 14, 2017 20:46:06 GMT -6
Wow! Great find, witness1 ! Very good read... thanks for linking it in this thread. |
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Post by daniel on Dec 27, 2017 13:23:18 GMT -6
In my own studies, I happened to come across this passage today: Psalm 105:17-2217 and he sent a man before them— Joseph, sold as a slave. 18 They bruised his feet with shackles, his neck was put in irons, 19 till what he foretold came to pass, till the word of the LORD proved him true. 20 The king sent and released him, the ruler of peoples set him free. 21 He made him master of his household,
ruler over all he possessed,
22 to instruct his princes [H8269] as he pleased
and teach his elders wisdom.
In context, the author is recounting some of the history of Israel through the story of Joseph. Joseph is a type of Jesus, our Headship, and the one to eventually delegate some portion of His authority to the church. If so, then it isn't too much of a stretch to link this to the notion that we will direct angels. That word for prince is also used in Daniel 10 to describe the archangel Michael, the prince of Persia, and the prince of Greece. Additionally, if Israel's exodus from Egypt prototypes the church's exodus from the world, perhaps this has some deeper meaning as well: 37 He brought out Israel, laden with silver and gold,
and from among their tribes no one faltered.
38 Egypt was glad when they left,
because dread of Israel had fallen on them.
Is it possible we will "plunder" the world before we exit? Maybe in the time period leading up to the rapture? Could this be related to the US recently blessing Israel in a major way? Perhaps. I know... it's very US centric, but maybe the US still has the highest concentration of Christians on the planet, and serve as representatives. The rest of the unbelieving world would be happy to see the demise of the US. Or perhaps it is just "spiritual" plunder, since the rapture represents the Restrainer being removed. Or perhaps the US will be cursed if we end up dividing the land in an attempt to create peace. I guess we will see. Thoughts? |
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