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Post by disciple4life on Oct 12, 2017 13:34:36 GMT -6
SNS, you are always welcome to come here and explore. I appreciate having you here to keep us sharp. We need people to look for the holes and blind spots in our beliefs so we can grow and change as necessary. Everyone on this board comes here with a somewhat different perspective from each other. If we all agreed and all knew, believed, and understood exactly the same things, there would be no debate or confusion. But we don't all know, believe, or understand exactly the same things. So we learn. I appreciate your contribution here, SNS, and I hope you will continue with us however long we're here.  Spot on, WMJ. I totally echo that sentiment, SNS. ;-)
You may not have seen it, but there is lots of disagreement on end times. The thing is, for the most part, people have the attitude that we are all united under Christ, and all of us have parts of the puzzle, and no one has all the pieces. ;-)
Some are Pre-Tribulation rapture, some believe the rapture will be mid-tribulation. Some are Secret/ Surprise rapture people - No One Knows the Day or Hour, and some are decidedly not. Some believe the rapture could be any moment, any day, such as April 1 or July 4th, or February 14th and then there are those like myself who firmly believe that the Feasts are inseparably linked to Christ, - His death, burial, resurrection, even his birth, and his return - rapture, tribulation, and second coming. ;-) Some are FIGS or IaF. Israel as Fig - They believe the passage in Matt 24 is explicitly referring to Israel and that the generation that will not pass away is my parents generation - 1947, when Israel became a nation.
*** You are so valuable here -and I wish there were more. [really] Without people who are curious, or ask probing questions, - especially the kind that goes 180 degrees against tradition, these forums can become an "Echo chamber". I have said over and again - and still believe that using Strong's numbers is ludicrous and cheapens all watchman, - and that the height of arrogance is people saying the Sept alignment cannot be debunked. It occurred, based on software saying it would happen on Sept 23. A "sign" points to something that is ahead, but not a "Falling rocks" sign 657 miles and two states away. At some point, people need to say, "Hmm - I was mistaken - it didn't mean what I thought it meant." What can I learn? Another sign of gullible people is those perpetuating the same tired, worn-out line from years before - The calendar is off.
Sorrynotsorry -- I'm so glad you're here. The mark of maturity of believers is not that they have or know all the answers, but how do we respond/ react to those who think differently. Do we respond with condescension and arrogance, or try to explain our point with scripture, facts, history, logic and reason. ;-)
Disciple4life.
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Post by stormyknight on Oct 12, 2017 14:52:30 GMT -6
sorrynotsorry, there was a time when I took a few steps down that path you seem to be on. I had read that all the writers of the bible made it all up. One started it and the rest just added to it. I mean come on, look at all the amazing works of literature and art and film and whatever, that humankind has made. It's not that much of a leap, is it? But I did ask God to show Himself. I went to a University and got a degree in art and part of my studies was art history (aacckk) and we studied ancient Hindu art and ancient Mesopotamian art and ancient this and that. It was because of all that that I strayed from my Christian roots, I think. But I did wonder, what if it's all made up. And then, I'm not sure exactly when, but the Father made me to realize something. Some of my other studies were in regular history and, of course as we all know, our history on this planet can get pretty bloody. Somehow I came to realize that we humans don't just kill each other. We are inspired to kill each other. And it's not by our Creator. You go and watch some unadulterated films about any war and see what we've done. What we are capable of doing. It crushed my heart. Only a completely EVIL spirit could inspire that kind of hatred. That spirit of course has a name that we all know. I know this is a backwards way of looking at it, but it made me realize that that evil must be stopped and there was only one way to do it. And there IS only one GOD that was/is written about on this Earth that has a foolproof plan to get rid of that evil. I just know now, in my heart, that He will do what He says. Like I stated earlier, He did show Himself to me, in different ways, helping me through my life, things that cannot be explained any other way short of 'The Father made that happen'. I came to have faith in Him that He will finish His plan, eventually. I hope it's soon. So, like others have said, it doesn't hurt to ask "hey, yo, up there! Are you for real?" and eventually, I hope, we get to meet.
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Post by spacethinker on Oct 12, 2017 20:15:19 GMT -6
Disclaimer: My own opinion only as I tiptoe to the fringe. Human experience is composed of two things. There is the logical/concrete/repeatable ("real" to some) and there is the experiential, which to most might be a religious experience or, perhaps, falling in love might be the most universal example. For others an experience might be witnessing the paranormal, a UFO encounter, or a near-death experience. Yet to them that experience is the most absolutely real thing they have encountered. (Disclaimer #2: I'm not endorsing any of those things. Except the love. I endorse the love.) There have been times when God has brought a revelatory experience to people without them necessarily wanting or expecting it, but I suspect in general, people do not find what they do not seek. Logic brings understanding to a degree, but ultimately each person receives certainty of truth in some very personal way. sorrynotsorry did you ever see the sci-fi movie Contact? I thought they did a great job wrestling with the dichotomy of the concrete vs. the experiential. |
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Post by chohouston on Oct 13, 2017 14:04:19 GMT -6
Disclaimer: My own opinion only as I tiptoe to the fringe. Human experience is composed of two things. There is the logical/concrete/repeatable ("real" to some) and there is the experiential, which to most might be a religious experience or, perhaps, falling in love might be the most universal example. For others an experience might be witnessing the paranormal, a UFO encounter, or a near-death experience. Yet to them that experience is the most absolutely real thing they have encountered. (Disclaimer #2: I'm not endorsing any of those things. Except the love. I endorse the love.) There have been times when God has brought a revelatory experience to people without them necessarily wanting or expecting it, but I suspect in general, people do not find what they do not seek. Logic brings understanding to a degree, but ultimately each person receives certainty of truth in some very personal way. sorrynotsorry did you ever see the sci-fi movie Contact? I thought they did a great job wrestling with the dichotomy of the concrete vs. the experiential. Very cool point actually! I totally know what you’re talking about. I also agree that there is a completely “experiential” element to knowledge, especially spiritual knowledge. The problem for me, especially when it comes to people saying “god told me ____” is that I’ve heard this so many times from people who are clearly not hearing from God (there is a ton of this on YouTube such as the guy who spent a whole year telling everyone who would listen that God told him that the rapture would happen Oct 5th FOR SURE) or from people who are clearly attributing their own thoughts to God (such as someone who says God told me to marry so-and-so but clearly the other person isn’t interested, or my own father-in-law who swore God told him I was pregnant with boy who would be a great prophet and I gave birth to a girl) . My point is that even if some people that claim to receive instruction from God really do, how would I know who to believe because so many people that claim to hear from him have been proven wrong (not to mention all the Muslims that also “hear” from Allah) When I was younger and a Christian I was taught to listen to the “still, small voice” of God, and I *really* thought I could hear it. Now that I’m not religious I realize I still totally have that “still, small voice” but I don’t call it God, I call it intuition or perhaps even my subconscious. Now does this mean as my sister-in-law thinks that I was never saved (just faking it from age 3-30) ? Maybe, but if that’s true I didn’t know I was faking it. I have prayed multiple times (especially when I was first starting to doubt my beliefs) please God just help me believe. I mean really wasn’t asking for much, not a miracle, not a voice, I just wanted to believe. But nothing happened. Nada. In fact the opposite happened. My sister-in-law believes God elects who will saved, and she basically told me “sorry, I guess you just weren’t chosen” lol well can’t argue with that! Anyways I totally got this thread off topic but I guess after today the 13th won’t be a big discussion point anyways. Spiritual discernment comes from truth. The Word of God is the absolute truth (john1:1) and when we dwell in scripture, you are able to divide (Heb4:12) and discern. I believe a lot of Christians make conclusions without being rooted in scripture, from what it sounds, you have come across a few...thats the dangers of cherry picking scriptures instead of line upon line (Isa 28:10). At the end of the day, I come to a point where the truth is always found in scriptures. I relied on the teaching of pastors and videos before but it is totally different when you seek Christ on your own through scripture. He reveals so much that a renewed mind (Romans 12:2) is inevitable. The more I read the more I fear God the Father as he reveals Himself and His character but it is only by His mercy through His Son Jesus Christ that we are saved only by grace through faith...the people that continue to seek His return, God sees favor in this as everyone who has, has experienced this renewing of the mind that is such an amazing gift from God. Regardless of whether we are out of here today, tomorrow or in the months to come, we need to be ready (Ephesians 6:11)with the armour of God. I also agree that there is a reason you have come onto these forums and I hope that you can be blessed through all of this. Blessings |
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Post by cwood85 on Oct 13, 2017 17:44:53 GMT -6
Disclaimer: My own opinion only as I tiptoe to the fringe. Human experience is composed of two things. There is the logical/concrete/repeatable ("real" to some) and there is the experiential, which to most might be a religious experience or, perhaps, falling in love might be the most universal example. For others an experience might be witnessing the paranormal, a UFO encounter, or a near-death experience. Yet to them that experience is the most absolutely real thing they have encountered. (Disclaimer #2: I'm not endorsing any of those things. Except the love. I endorse the love.) There have been times when God has brought a revelatory experience to people without them necessarily wanting or expecting it, but I suspect in general, people do not find what they do not seek. Logic brings understanding to a degree, but ultimately each person receives certainty of truth in some very personal way. sorrynotsorry did you ever see the sci-fi movie Contact? I thought they did a great job wrestling with the dichotomy of the concrete vs. the experiential. Very cool point actually! I totally know what you’re talking about. I also agree that there is a completely “experiential” element to knowledge, especially spiritual knowledge. The problem for me, especially when it comes to people saying “god told me ____” is that I’ve heard this so many times from people who are clearly not hearing from God (there is a ton of this on YouTube such as the guy who spent a whole year telling everyone who would listen that God told him that the rapture would happen Oct 5th FOR SURE) or from people who are clearly attributing their own thoughts to God (such as someone who says God told me to marry so-and-so but clearly the other person isn’t interested, or my own father-in-law who swore God told him I was pregnant with boy who would be a great prophet and I gave birth to a girl) . My point is that even if some people that claim to receive instruction from God really do, how would I know who to believe because so many people that claim to hear from him have been proven wrong (not to mention all the Muslims that also “hear” from Allah) When I was younger and a Christian I was taught to listen to the “still, small voice” of God, and I *really* thought I could hear it. Now that I’m not religious I realize I still totally have that “still, small voice” but I don’t call it God, I call it intuition or perhaps even my subconscious. Now does this mean as my sister-in-law thinks that I was never saved (just faking it from age 3-30) ? Maybe, but if that’s true I didn’t know I was faking it. I have prayed multiple times (especially when I was first starting to doubt my beliefs) please God just help me believe. I mean really wasn’t asking for much, not a miracle, not a voice, I just wanted to believe. But nothing happened. Nada. In fact the opposite happened. My sister-in-law believes God elects who will saved, and she basically told me “sorry, I guess you just weren’t chosen” lol well can’t argue with that! Anyways I totally got this thread off topic but I guess after today the 13th won’t be a big discussion point anyways. “sorry, I guess you just weren’t chosen” ^^^^ That is a really horrible thing to have said to you, and entirely not true. I will tell you something, my mother started into THAT and that belief is predestination. When she explained to me her beginning beliefs on that, I was infuriated and actually left. I had to cool down, pray, and really think about it and importantly go to scripture. My Aunt believes this and unfortunately my mother follows right along with her on many things before doing any research for herself. I know I can come off as blunt, I am sorry, but I do commend you asking what you do. It takes a lot of guts to ask questions in a group or atmosphere that you do and are new to. I am sorry, but what a slap in the face from your SIL. A slap in the face to you, and most of all to Jesus dying on the cross. If we are predetermined by God, and chosen, then what was the entire purpose of Jesus being crucified on the cross? None, there would be absolutely no point. Now do I believe that God being all knowing and outside of time knows who will join him? Of course, but it is not entirely by his choosing... we have free will, we have the choice to do right or wrong, that is a lot of how we are in his image. We have the ability to create, make things, do wonderful things! We also have the ability to destroy, hurt, and do horrible things. We have the choice of whether to know He is there and loves or he isn't. All choices and actions have a reaction, consequences and effect our lives. I have some pretty strong testimony in here. I have had some really bad experiences in my life and I tried to handle them on my own for years. It did not work, at all. I was to the point of offing myself. And not the threaten to do it, no, this was entirely kept to myself and had become a fact that I was going to do it. Not one soul knew how bad my mental state had become. I had a when, a how, and a where all planned out. What to use and how to make it so once the process started, I couldn't back out. No one should ever ever have to go through thoughts like that. They tear you into a thousand pieces and then get ran through the wood chipper just to make sure you are truly and utterly defeated. The only way I came out of that was through Jesus. Not me, not one ounce of it was me. I was smashed to bits and He lovingly and carefully put me back together. Not all at once, but I began to fill with a peace and quiet I had not felt in years. A warmth of love started coming back. Yes, I had asked, begged as I held what I was going to do it with in my hand. I threw it away. He gave me that strength. I had none left, not a drop. He will show up, look for Him, not proof. He is always there. |
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Post by whatif on Oct 13, 2017 23:05:36 GMT -6
sorrynotsorry did you ever see the sci-fi movie Contact? I thought they did a great job wrestling with the dichotomy of the concrete vs. the experiential. When I was younger and a Christian I was taught to listen to the “still, small voice” of God, and I *really* thought I could hear it. Now that I’m not religious I realize I still totally have that “still, small voice” but I don’t call it God, I call it intuition or perhaps even my subconscious. Now does this mean as my sister-in-law thinks that I was never saved (just faking it from age 3-30) ? Maybe, but if that’s true I didn’t know I was faking it. I have prayed multiple times (especially when I was first starting to doubt my beliefs) please God just help me believe. This tells me the Lord Jesus is going to touch you very personally one day, sorrynotsorry... He never fails to answer a sincere cry for help, and in His timing He will touch you. When He does--whether very soon or later in your life--I hope you will tell us your story and let us rejoice with you... |
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