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Post by sawdy on Oct 11, 2017 12:42:44 GMT -6
sorrynotsorryIf there is no rapture, then there is nothing to declare what happens in Revelation. I know the book can be argued as to it doesn't use the word rapture, but let's say Jesus isn't returning for us although he said he is coming. Because, if we are still here in 2068, that is essentially what is happening. Let's pretend it is such, 2068. We will be imbedded with chips for currency, many humans will be without employment as our jobs are replaced by AI and the only ones who can afford to be part of society are the elite who are the only ones left with money after natural disasters, the bankruptcy of government's forcing one world government. Our society has made leaps and bounds with technology and it will continue. How do you see the Christian faith or any faith actually surviving to that point? We would be greater than God, as we have become gods with the manipulation of DNA. We will pick and choose which of our species has the right to live and which does not. I personally don't see us making it that far. The likelihood of that scenario is greater than of a society that maintains the current status quo for the next 50 years. So we come down to whether or not we truly believe in Jesus Christ or not. If we don't believe his words have any meaning for us, or whether they do. There really is no middle ground. A few years ago, I wanted to get my Access Bars run by a friend. The morning I was to get this done, a voice inside me said no. I said yes, it said no. I said yes and I'm going to do it anyways. I did go and had such a serious spiritual attack that I was sick for days afterwards. I never finished the session as I came to the realization that God's voice inside me was speaking to me for my protection. He didn't want to see me sick for days or worse. (I'm not certain to what would've happened if I completed the session, and I care not to speculate.) God's word is his word. If we are to not take it and cherish it, can we truly call ourselves believers? If we are to consistently spread doubt and choose to find new ways of trying to discourage people who are trying to be better believers, are we showing his fruits in us? sorrynotsorry you consistently claim to be a Christian but your fruit is bitter. I am praying for you, but from you last post it sounds like you really don't believe in the power of prayer. I once was like you. I went to Sunday school growing up and had lots of arguments with my brother about creationism versus Darwinism. I knew my Christian heritage but that wasn't what it could all be. There was no way, no doubt in my mind that the had to be some more enlightenment, that there was more than the dusty Bible sitting in a box with my childhood mementos. I didn't believe in evolution but I didn't believe in Christianity but if you had asked me what I was, I would've said I was a Christian. Am I doubting that you are a Christian, no, because as once saved always saved applies, I too was a Christian during that period of my life. But, the big thing was, was I actively encouraging other Christians and sharing my faith so that others may come to Christ? No, no I was not. I was not an ambassador for him and I am ashamed of how long I lived that way. It saddens me today that there was a lot of missed opportunities to be a witness for him but I was busy putting myself first and I wouldn't even say that I was putting him second, he was so low on my list. I am a Christian, a mom, a wife and I love science. I attended Sunday School, handed out tracks and fed the homeless as kid. I turned my back on God and chose to follow my own path for many years that should've gone way worse than it did because God was protecting me the whole time. Eventually, God spoke to me and I came to realize that all I was missing was the God-shaped hole inside of me. Will my story make a difference for you? Probably not, as you only want to discuss what you set the tone to discuss. And that is okay. Because I am still praying for you, whether you want me to or not.
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Post by cwood85 on Oct 11, 2017 13:19:13 GMT -6
this didn’t answer my question, I have read the Bible. Many times, but more importantly I have studied it. I know you don’t believe you’ll be around in 100 years, but that’s my point exactly. All it takes for someone to stop believing in Santa is to see that he doesn’t actually deliver presents on Christmas. What modern day Christians are doing is saying “Santa (Jesus) is coming to bring us our presents (rapture) before Christmas (2068) ....now once you’ve done this, if that date passes you have made it MUCH harder for Christianity to be credible. Once youve seen that Santa doesn’t come, you never go back to believing. So I wonder what that would do to a religion? The early christians (yep 2000 yrs ago) thought Jesus was coming back any day. What happened when He didn't? Oh Christianity continued to spread and grow. How about the alleged rapture dates contained here most notably John Wesley in 1836. Christianity disperse after that? It's almost as if something just continued to spread, despite the hiccups of man and our faults, date setting, and so on. Like something through acceptance and power beyond our measure and control just kept on keeping on for those willing to accept it. Something that came about shorty after Jesus died... Oh yeah!! The Holy Spirit and the living word of God. Gods gift for those who believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead. Part of Him in us, for free out of love. All the the things you sorrynotsorry mentioned have already happened many times over, and faith and Christianity still seems to be going as far as I can tell. Tell me this, if non of this was real, why then is it trying to be wiped out by those who hate Christ? Not religion, because Islam, Buddhism, and such or ok in schools, colleges, and businesses around the world. My college around 12 years ago was making worshiping and washing rooms for the Islamic believers. Separate bathrooms and everything. Now, if I or a group of people demanded prayer rooms or a quit separate room for our bible study of Jesus, we would be ignored, probably laughed at for being ridiculous, called racist, a bigot, you name it. So why is that? Other religions are respected. Not Christianity, and we were told this would be so. I have asked you in different threads and have yet to receive an answer, WHAT is your purpose here? Going to Sunday school and reading the Bible and claiming to be knowledgeable is no different than what the Pharisee did. Sure, they knew the words of bible and scripture, but they didn't KNOW it or BELIEVE it. And for that very reason, God himself stood before them as a man, as prophesied many many times, and they didn't know it. And then they killed Him. But, they sure knew their bible and the law |
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Post by tiffanybw on Oct 11, 2017 13:50:44 GMT -6
Wow Sawdy!
I could have written that, almost every word. My life was the exact same way. Not sure exactly when, somewhere around age 15/16, I REBELLED.
After that, there were a very few times I called out to Him, I prayed. Those times though, very few and far between. I had the same God shaped hole inside of me that you did. And just as happened with you, I missed so many opportunities.
Even so, God protected me that ENTIRE time. When I was 20, my grandmother was babysitting my daughter, and me, my fiancé (daughter's father), and my cousin called Rich... We drove from where we lived to LaPlata, MD, to party with a girl my cousin had been dating. We partied on the way, while we were there, and on the way back.
On the way back, it was raining pretty hard. And we were still drinking as we drove back home.
The following, is not a lie, not an embellishment of the truth. I promise to all that it is exactly what happened:
I was in the driver's side passenger seat, my cousin was driving, my fiancé was in the back. I glanced at the speedometer and as I did I LITERALLY and AUDIBLY heard a voice tell me... "Tiffany, put on your seatbelt right now!" No one else in the car heard this. Me, I actually and out loud heard it, a loud, deep, and commanding voice. And so I reached up, grabbed my seat belt, and put it on (never used to wear a seatbelt before this, better believe though there has never been a time since where I don't wear a seatbelt)!
No sooner had I clicked my seatbelt on, the car spun out. Luckily, there were no other cars around us on the highway. I honestly can't tell you exactly what happened after, because it was as if time stood still. I logically know it was only a few seconds, but as it happened it seemed to go on forever. The car spun and spun and hit something (guardrail, embankment, I don't know). The car completely rolled all the way over at least 2 times and then hit the side embankment and slid and was upside down when it did this. And it remained upside down.
As that was happening, my life did flash before my eyes. It is difficult to explain what exactly did happen... but my entire life flashed before me in my mind I guess, and my very fragile... mortality... I guess is the best word to use.
I don't know how much time passed, not long. But next thing I remember is hanging upside down in the car, and the ground/grass/embankment had completely smashed in the passenger side of the car and my upside down body and head was right up against the grass covered ground (as it was like that side of the car was completely crunched in). Next thing I remember, my cousin saying to no one in particular and just us who were in the car... "Are you ok? Are you guys here?" And we were. But it took a few minutes to get our bearings. And so my cousin was able to undo his seatbelt and then he undid mine. My fiancé who was in the back, he was also ok. But the only way out from the upside down car was to crawl through the driver's side window... which the glass had all shattered out of, but we all climbed through one at a time.
My cousin worked (still does) for UPS. I think we were all of us in a state of complete shock. But he immediately started asking me to tell the police (no one was there yet but other cars who had seen what happened, or who saw us upside down like that, and many cars stopped and people got out to help us); but my cousin started begging me to please say that I was driving. I wasn't really even comprehending what was happening i don't think. I told him no though, that I wasn't going to say that. And we were all checking ourselves over. And looking at what used to be my cousin's car which... just didn't look like anyone would survive what that car looked like.
All of us... aside from cuts and bruises... we were fine. It's not simply that I believe, but I KNOW God was with us that night.
Not only did he keep us physically safe. But the police didn't do any breathalyzers, didn't check inside the car (maybe because it was so crunched up) but if they would have they would have found beer cans everywhere and my cousin would have been charged with DUI and would have lost his job driving the UPS truck that he does. The police never even looked.
God Saved Us.
And NO ONE can tell me, even though neither my fiancé or my cousin heard the same voice that I did, NO ONE can tell me that I didn't hear that voice, or that I imagined or hallucinated it (I was drunk, not high). I HEARD God tell me to put my seatbelt on. God told me this because He was with me, even though I wasn't AT ALL with Him.
This happened, at age 20. Do you think that I started following Jesus faithfully immediately after?
NOPE. I didn't. Because I am one HARD HEADED SINNER.
Did Jesus give up on me, even then, after all of that, and me STILL rejecting Him (except for when I needed Him to bail me out of my own messes caused by by own sin)?
NOPE. Jesus NEVER gave up on me. NEVER.
And in 2010, at the age of 35 years old, after 15 years more of sin after sin, mistake after mistake, doing things my own way and holding Jesus at arm's length except for the times I had gotten myself into such chaos that I HAD to call on Him... 15 more YEARS it took... and Jesus NEVER gave up on me. And finally, in 2010, I said to Jesus, YES LORD, I am going to actually make an effort and TRY to follow You.
I've been following Him ever since. Not perfectly at all. Definitely not at first, and not now either. But since I've followed Him, just that my Father started working in me. He took one thing at a time, one sin at a time, one stronghold of Satan at a time. First, He Convicted me. Then, I fought. Then He kept Convicting me. And then, I finally would truly repent and give that "thing", that sin... give it to Him.
I am, what the Bible would define as, a person with a STIFF NECK. He, doesn't care. Even today, He NEVER gives up on me. I've been corrected, I've experienced literal demonic attack and have SEEN for MYSELF actual DEMONS. And I've also been held in my Father's Arms, and forgiven, and comforted, and He told me... "Yes Tiffany. You ARE good enough. And you ARE good enough for Me. Not only that, but I am proud of you, of whom you have become, and of who you are going to be. I love you."
Believe me or not. I don't care. Call it a vision, a dream, a hallucination, my subconscious. Call me mentally deranged and crazy. Whatever! Because I KNOW He is Real. I KNOW He NEVER and will NEVER give up on me. I KNOW I am His Forever! And I KNOW that I DO NOT deserve it. Most importantly, I KNOW HE IS REAL.
(All that wasn't meant for just you Sawdy. But your post touched me. And this is what I felt led to share, with everyone.)
Love you Sister, and I know exactly what you mean about feeling so ashamed over wasting so much time. Praise Yeshua that we are not those people anymore! We are born again in Jesus! And for ALL people, who are not, I pray for, and we will pray for together. Because He NEVER gave up on us. And so we, His Body, we will NEVER give up on those who do not yet know Him.
God Bless to All! *huge hugs*
Edit: In all my zeal to share I forgot that I wanted to ask you Sawdy, what is giving your Access Bars to someone?
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Post by yardstick on Oct 11, 2017 14:46:56 GMT -6
I just did a post count check. yardstick you have surpassed the number of posts that I have made more than three times over! In fact, you have posted enough since your "Rapture" post that you have actually posted more than I have in my entirety on the boards in just that short period of time. There is no way to catch up. Lol I am not sour about it, because we all have different personalities, perspectives, and philosophies. tiffanybw has a penchant for protracted pleonasm and myself, well, I've personally comes to terms with that the preponderance of the board posters are more percipient and perceptive than I. ... Merely jesting! I promise! |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 11, 2017 14:50:15 GMT -6
... As for the actual thread topic, I am personally praying for sooner than later. I spoke to my husband last night as we booked a Disneyland vacation for November (his and my kids insistence- I would rather spend the weekend at West Edmonton Mall and put the difference to buying new windows for our house). I have been trying to be excited about our trip but since I've "checked out" on my enjoyment of secular things, it has been hard. Our conversation last night was about trip insurance. I had intended to book it with my cousin's wife, as she booked our trip, but she lives in a different province and was unable to do so. I was asking him about what to get and he said "the full coverage because you don't know what's going to happen.". We don't talk about the rapture or anything to do with faith, so for him to start talking about the possibilities of disaster prior to our trip or during our trip took me aback. He actually mentioned earthquake, fire, nuclear attack, mass shooting and plane crash in the same sentence. So my take on this is that those family members around us, who are not really willing to look around and see what is happening aren't unaware of what is happening; they are just trying, in their own way, to cope with what is going on around them. And for men, that requires them to be the captain, to go down with their ship if necessary, to make sure that there family is provided for and taken care of. My husband is busy trying to hold peace and our financials stable as he is currently having to campaign for his job in local government. If he isn't reelected, we will face struggles. From that little conversation, I inferred alot. My husband doesn't want to stress me out talking about what is going on. He also has noticed a lot more than he is willing to talk about. But yet he carries on, for the sake of the crew, to keep calm in the midst of the impending storm, because the storm is out of our control. There isn't anything we can do to stop it. I am dealing with exactly these things myself. Just not interested in any secular things anymore. My window for planning is non-existent. I spend my extra money stocking things up for use for someone who is left behind, along with a letter explaining salvation, with the hopes that they will get saved; and while they wont be safe, they may be safer with the things I leave behind than otherwise. |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 11, 2017 15:13:46 GMT -6
Galen, this was very well written and logically thought out. I’ve heard a ton of watcher videos and the more sinister (to me) prophetic dream videos on various YouTube videos about Sep 23, Sep 30, Oct 5, Oct 13, Oct 21, Oct 31, Dec 21 and Dec 25 rapture dates. Once those all pass, I predict people will jump on the May 2018 bandwagon, and then after that they’ll wait for the 2018 feast days. After that, 2021, 2024, 2028, and last but not least 2068. I’m just curious, and please take this very hypothetically because I know that you guys believe very, very much that the Bible is God’s word and that you have the correct religion and that the rapture is going to happen soon (2000 years and counting)....*but*.....HYPOTHETICALLY if nothing at all has happened (no antichrist, no rapture, no tribulation, no stars falling to earth) by your worst case scenario date 2068, what does that mean to you? What would it mean to the Christian religion? Im young enough that I will probably live to see 2068 and I spend a lot of time wondering what it will mean for Christianity once that date passes. I know most visitors to this board are totally 100% sure that rapture will happen by then, but I’m not asking if you’re sure (I know you’re very sure, just like I’m very sure that we won’t be raptured...so clearly being sure does equal being right. One of us is wrong) Also in case you’re wondering no, I’m not some minion of Satan here to spread lies, I’m just a mom, a scientist, a wife, and a graduate of a private Christian school that went to Sunday school every Sunday of my life. I know the Bible very well, although so does Satan right  my point is I’m not here to throw a wrench in your game, I’m just curious as a non Christian what Christians will do if 2068 passes quietly. Last time I asked a question like this I got the standard “save yourself don’t end up in hell” response and that’s really not what I’m looking for here. One thing Christians don’t seem to understand about nonchristians is that threatening them will hell doesn’t work. It’s like if I threatened you with the Islamic version of hell, you just wouldn’t care because you don’t believe in it. Anyways that’s a side note, I’d just like to keep the responses about what it would mean for Christianity if rapture doesn’t happen in next 50 years, not about hellfire. Thank you for your sincere post. From one 'scientist' (type) to another: All things being equal, what's your risk? What is your risk if you are wrong, what is your reward if you are right? The risk of those on this board, and other places if we are wrong (and I currently hold the position that the harpazo/rapture is not dependent on a feast day, though its not precluded from occurring on one) is that we look foolish. Well, as you (I am certain) are aware, we already look foolish, just by being believers. So that would be little risk, wouldn't you say? So what is our reward? Eternal life via harpazo, rather than enduring those things which will occur during the Tribulation, right? Seems the Risk/Reward ratio is very low. That is, low risk, high reward. So what is the risk of not 'buying in'? Left behind when the harpazo occurs? Your familiarity with scriptures tells you what will occur during the Tribulation. I am confident the details will be much more horrifying than what is disclosed. I wonder, just hypothetically, would you take the mark? Or be a martyr? I am curious. What is your reward for being right? More of the same life, dealing with all the stuff you see on TV, mortgage, living expenses, terrorism, rising taxes and a government that overreaches until it takes your liberty completely away and leaves you in a communist state until you die of old age? A fully lived life can be rewarding. But afterward, the judgement (one type or the other), right? What is your risk/reward ratio? Seems high risk, with low (relative) reward to me. Being a believer (including in a potential feast date harpazo) does not require you (or anyone) to set aside your rationality. Sure, there are a lot of emotions that go with this. But there's a lot to be learned too. A lot to analyze with the time available. Maybe we can figure out the puzzle and leave the solution to those who remain. |
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Oct 11, 2017 15:51:25 GMT -6
sorrynotsorry, This is a variation of the same question you have asked plenty of times in this forum. Our faith is in Jesus Christ, our Lord. He commands us to watch, we see the signs like no other time in history and are speculating, because it is our blessed hope. He is indeed coming back. Now I understand you believe it is all poppycock, but you won't make us question our faith by scoffing or mocking. Or by asking the same question in different ways. Will we give up on Jesus or Christianity? No. Will we stop looking for His coming? No. But we will pray God softens your heart to His love.
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Post by sawdy on Oct 11, 2017 20:16:26 GMT -6
tiffanybwWow! Your story is amazing! To audibly hear God's voice is way cool. I laughed when you said it didn't really have an impact on you and you had continued on your self-driven path. Isn't that the case? Sometimes it takes a lot of prodding for us to give up driving and take the passenger seat. To answer your question about Access Bars, I highly disapprove of it. I wouldn't recommend it and if you have a secular friend who is talking about it, try to dissuade them from doing it. Access Consciousness (aka having your bars runs, access bars) is about touching various points on your scalp to awaken you inner abilities, that you can do anything you want to achieve. Even now, typing just this brief description, I am getting physically ill. When I experienced it, I felt like there was a flame colored light trying to enter my head and the white light that was coming from within, from my chest was trying to keep it out. But as she touched another spot on my head, it took all my effort to keep the white light from letting the red light from coming in. Eventually, I called the session to a stop amd went home and was physically sick for several days. The red light didn't make it in before I stopped the session, and since then I have given up the driver's seat to Jesus. Note to the mods- I am sorry for helping to derail the original intent of this thread becuase I have commented in a couple different directions on it. It is honestly very hard for me to work in only one direction as my brain doesn't function like that and carries on in multiple directions at the same time.
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Post by mike on Oct 11, 2017 20:26:15 GMT -6
Sorry to get off topic further in addressing miss sorry as i had her in mind when i located this. However anyone wanting to be blessed by the greatest apologist of our time, watch this man speak about our God!
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Post by whatif on Oct 11, 2017 23:27:30 GMT -6
The only thing I can have absolute knowledge of is scripture. It tells me he is coming and gives signs that say "soon" just seems it can't be soon enough and doesn't tell me what "soon" means. Revelation 22:20 says "Behold I am coming quickly" 2000 years ago and counting. I pray, hope that I will see Him soon, maybe I need to focus on other things then I'll forget it and then it happens. He may be waiting for such a time as it's an element of surprise for everyone, which seems an unlikely prospect but He is definitely capable of providing a distraction for a few hours or days. I'm sure there are limits to how long I can keep on watch for. I’m just curious, and please take this very hypothetically because I know that you guys believe very, very much that the Bible is God’s word and that you have the correct religion and that the rapture is going to happen soon (2000 years and counting)....*but*.....HYPOTHETICALLY if nothing at all has happened (no antichrist, no rapture, no tribulation, no stars falling to earth) by your worst case scenario date 2068, what does that mean to you? What would it mean to the Christian religion? Im young enough that I will probably live to see 2068 and I spend a lot of time wondering what it will mean for Christianity once that date passes. Welcome back, sorrynotsorry! Yes, you are right--we do believe very, very much that the Bible is God's Word. And there's a reason for that... It's because we've come to be touched in very personal ways by the Living God. Through His touch, we've come to know Him. We've developed a relationship with Him that grows deeper and deeper with each passing day. We know He is real because He speaks with us through His Holy Spirit, and because we know Him, we know His Word is true and that we can put our trust in it. We have the experience of being in communication with Him at all hours of the day, because He gave His Spirit to live inside of us, and we continually find evidence of His presence within us as He works to mold our hearts into His likeness. All of the believers in Jesus here have beautiful stories to tell of how we've come to know the Lord is real and how He has been comforting us, guiding us, teaching us, speaking to us. It's our great joy to study His Word and to look forward to His return, whenever His return will happen to be.
If the rapture doesn't happen by 2068, that will not change the fact that we know Him personally and can continue to trust in His Word. Our trust in Him doesn't hinge upon what day we think He might return. That's just our hopes. Because we love Him so much, we desire to see Him face to face. If we must wait another hundred years, then He will give us the strength to do so, and He will continue to work in our lives, continue to speak with us, continue to do what He's been doing with each generation that follows us.
Now I will ask you a question... What if Jesus does return as soon as we are hoping? What will it mean for you?
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Post by tiffanybw on Oct 12, 2017 3:56:33 GMT -6
tiffanybw Wow! Your story is amazing! To audibly hear God's voice is way cool. I laughed when you said it didn't really have an impact on you and you had continued on your self-driven path. Isn't that the case? Sometimes it takes a lot of prodding for us to give up driving and take the passenger seat. To answer your question about Access Bars, I highly disapprove of it. I wouldn't recommend it and if you have a secular friend who is talking about it, try to dissuade them from doing it. Access Consciousness (aka having your bars runs, access bars) is about touching various points on your scalp to awaken you inner abilities, that you can do anything you want to achieve. Even now, typing just this brief description, I am getting physically ill. When I experienced it, I felt like there was a flame colored light trying to enter my head and the white light that was coming from within, from my chest was trying to keep it out. But as she touched another spot on my head, it took all my effort to keep the white light from letting the red light from coming in. Eventually, I called the session to a stop amd went home and was physically sick for several days. The red light didn't make it in before I stopped the session, and since then I have given up the driver's seat to Jesus. Note to the mods- I am sorry for helping to derail the original intent of this thread becuase I have commented in a couple different directions on it. It is honestly very hard for me to work in only one direction as my brain doesn't function like that and carries on in multiple directions at the same time. Hi Sawdy! After that accident, I started getting panic attacks and was eventually diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, and depression. For pretty much my entire life, I bought into all the "psychological stuff". My parents started sending me and my sister to various psychologists in our early teens. We had a pretty dysfunctional childhood that had nothing to do with "us", but more to do with them. I didn't get it as bad as my sister because I used to be way more secretive than she was. But Tamara, she used to keep diaries and things like that. Every time, mom would find them. And also would ransack our bedrooms. I knew better than to keep diaries! Also, I was way more mild mannered than my sister. I rebelled, but in front of them I would pretend to listen. Tamara though, she let them know she wasn't going to listen to them and not in a nice way either lol. And so, off to the shrink with both of us. And for my sister, off to several different in patient hospitals. They sent her all the way to California (we are in MD) once, then to Virginia once. It wasn't like today, where they would only keep a person for a few days. She was gone for months and months. Each time, it turned out my mom would eventually pull her out; because after a boatload of individual therapy, family therapy, and all that intensive stuff (I think she even got hypnotized once)... just that the doctors told my parents that there was not anything wrong with me and my sister and that the problem was them. And so my mom would pull her out, send her somewhere else, and eventually she declared all of the mental health field "crazy and none of them know what they are talking about". Because even the "Christian" mental health places, they said the same thing as the secular worldly places. I do believe in psychological problems. But not like the majority of the world of psychology does. IMO, they over diagnose (meaning if a patient walks in experiencing issues and that patient wants to leave with a "solution"; and so to appease that the doctor will dx and give them a prescription for something). Many don't really treat the actual cause of the problems; and that is because when most people do have problems, it is very complex. Also, I believe at least 50% of it, is demonic attack and oppression. I think that is what happened to you when you got your access bars read. I think probably you got sick because you belong to Jesus (even if you were not following Him at that time); and so because your Spirit is His Forever once given... just that things like that will cause you to get literally sick; also could cause demonic vivid dreams, visions, and things like that. Because doing things like that, it opens a person up for demonic oppression (if Christ resides in a person). For people who do not have Jesus, there is nothing in them to fight it, and so they get completely possessed and taken over. Most things that are psychological, have a spiritual root. But since the world doesn't want to believe in God, we have the modern field of psychology which refuses to address the root of the problem... sin. And this is why there are so many people out there with so many different disorders. I'm not saying the problems are not genuine, but the treatment for the most part is not. God cured me of what years of shrinks and therapists could not. And it is very rare that I ever get a panic attack anymore. And the depression completely gone. I have good moods and bad moods like everyone else. But no depression. All because I decided to do things God's Way! Who would have known the cure was so easy? As at the time, I would have done anything to stop those anxiety attacks. They were awful. I had never heard of "access bars", but I've heard of a million other things. All of it, in my opinion, it is of the new ageism that is so prevalent in the world. And all of it, just that it is like painting a big red target on oneself that says "open for business" to all that is demonic and of Satan. And since Satan and the spiritual has grown so heavy upon the earth, this is why we see so much of the violence, mass shootings, and all the rest of the horrible things we see in the world. All of that though, off topic. Like every other post almost, in this entire thread. I don't think very many are to do with that Oct 13 Youtube video. And so, I am sorry also mods. My mind also, it does not work like that. I guess there are many who can neatly separate and compartmentalize... life. I wish I could be like that. But for me, life isn't so neat and orderly. There are so many things that do not fit into any specific "category". That said, I sincerely do not want to violate forum rules. And so, if what we talk about is only allowed to be related to the exact topic... just that I think 90% of what is here posted on this forum would need to be deleted. There aren't many threads I see that stay on topic. If that is the rules though, I am sorry for violating them to all the leadership here. Because my mind doesn't work that way though, most likely I won't post as much anymore. I'll still come to read, as long as it is spiritually edifying. But just that I won't be able to post as it is impossible for me to stay on topic!  And my mind absolutely does not work that way! |
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Post by kjs on Oct 12, 2017 9:11:41 GMT -6
(I know you’re very sure, just like I’m very sure that we won’t be raptured...so clearly being sure does equal being right. One of us is wrong) Also in case you’re wondering no, I’m not some minion of Satan here to spread lies, I’m just a mom, a scientist, a wife, and a graduate of a private Christian school that went to Sunday school every Sunday of my life. I know the Bible very well, although so does Satan right my point is I’m not here to throw a wrench in your game, I’m just curious as a non Christian what Christians will do if 2068 passes quietly. Last time I asked a question like this I got the standard “save yourself don’t end up in hell” response and that’s really not what I’m looking for here. One thing Christians don’t seem to understand about nonchristians is that threatening them will hell doesn’t work. It’s like if I threatened you with the Islamic version of hell, you just wouldn’t care because you don’t believe in it. Anyways that’s a side note, I’d just like to keep the responses about what it would mean for Christianity if rapture doesn’t happen in next 50 years, not about hellfire. sorrynotsorry: While I admit you are raising some very valid arguments when it comes to “date setting”; I believe you have a logical flaw. The flaw is that not all Christian denominations believe exactly the same thing. At a very high level you have denominations that are Premillennialism and denominations that are Amillennialism. They all have the Christian name so both groups are what is known as Christianity. The Amillennialism (Greek: a- "no" + millennialism), in Christian eschatology, involves the rejection of the belief that Jesus will have a literal, thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The Premillennialism is often used to refer specifically to those who adhere to the beliefs in an earthly millennial reign of Christ. Each of these Groups can be further divided into additional camps as well. For example: under the Premillennialism one has the dispensational side which believes in a rapture of the faithful coming before Great Tribulation. But there is another side known as historic side which has the rapture happening after the Great Tribulation. So your query of “what Christians will do if 2068 passes quietly. “ – would be that the Amillennialist and Historic side would probably gloat and say “we were right” – since neither of these Groups believe there will be a rapture before. One group believes there will never be a rapture and the other group believes it will happen after the GT. So your theory of Christianity slowly going away or becoming “dead” just because a certain date passes is flawed. Only one group (or the side this website represents) even discusses dates. The other sides of “the date” debate – basically could care less about the date. Amillennialism is also common among Protestant denominations such as the Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, many Messianic Jews, and Methodist Churches. Premillennialism continues to be popular among Evangelical, Fundamentalist Christian, and Living Church of God communities. Hope that satisfies your query --- basically if said date passes -- it only proves (possibly) that this website and it stance was flawed.... There are other parts of Christianity that would not be affected in any way. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Oct 12, 2017 10:22:21 GMT -6
SNS, you are always welcome to come here and explore. I appreciate having you here to keep us sharp. We need people to look for the holes and blind spots in our beliefs so we can grow and change as necessary. Everyone on this board comes here with a somewhat different perspective from each other. If we all agreed and all knew, believed, and understood exactly the same things, there would be no debate or confusion. But we don't all know, believe, or understand exactly the same things. So we learn. I appreciate your contribution here, SNS, and I hope you will continue with us however long we're here.  |
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Post by truthseeker on Oct 12, 2017 11:54:05 GMT -6
Sorrynotsorry -
I look like I'm new to the discussion board - but I took a hiatus, so please don't judge me by a 'few' posts status. Everyone is totally on their own to believe what they want. As I see it, even in to the 1000 year Millennium, spoken of in the bible, people will be able to believe as they desire. But an interesting question was posed to me once from a pastor who was showing me his 'evangelism tool' for getting a conversation started and it said "If what you believe is wrong, would you want to know?". It really got me thinking. Some people it really bothers and they want the Truth and others...it doesn't matter. I don't 'wonder' about the creator, because He tells me the truth. I've had too many conversations with Him over the years and I have heard his clear directions on too many accounts to 'wonder'. Do you not desire to know for certain... "truth", whatever it may be?
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Oct 12, 2017 12:10:15 GMT -6
Thank you for your sincere post. From one 'scientist' (type) to another: All things being equal, what's your risk? What is your risk if you are wrong, what is your reward if you are right? The risk of those on this board, and other places if we are wrong (and I currently hold the position that the harpazo/rapture is not dependent on a feast day, though its not precluded from occurring on one) is that we look foolish. Well, as you (I am certain) are aware, we already look foolish, just by being believers. So that would be little risk, wouldn't you say? So what is our reward? Eternal life via harpazo, rather than enduring those things which will occur during the Tribulation, right? Seems the Risk/Reward ratio is very low. That is, low risk, high reward. So what is the risk of not 'buying in'? Left behind when the harpazo occurs? Your familiarity with scriptures tells you what will occur during the Tribulation. I am confident the details will be much more horrifying than what is disclosed. I wonder, just hypothetically, would you take the mark? Or be a martyr? I am curious. What is your reward for being right? More of the same life, dealing with all the stuff you see on TV, mortgage, living expenses, terrorism, rising taxes and a government that overreaches until it takes your liberty completely away and leaves you in a communist state until you die of old age? A fully lived life can be rewarding. But afterward, the judgement (one type or the other), right? What is your risk/reward ratio? Seems high risk, with low (relative) reward to me. Being a believer (including in a potential feast date harpazo) does not require you (or anyone) to set aside your rationality. Sure, there are a lot of emotions that go with this. But there's a lot to be learned too. A lot to analyze with the time available. Maybe we can figure out the puzzle and leave the solution to those who remain. Oh yes, I am very familiar with Pascal’s wager! However, this is a logical fallacy and can be applied to all religions. Example: should I be Muslim because the Koran threatens non believers too, or a Buddhist because I don’t want to come back as a toadstool? Anyways you get my drift. Besides, I’ve never responded well to threats People never believe me but even though I don’t know what happens after death, I’m 100% not afraid of it. If anything, I’m excited! I love nature and the birth/death cycle is such an integral part of everything. Dying doesn’t scare me one bit, and although I’ve been told by many family and friends that I will be tortured in hell for eternity...in my brain, heart, and gut I am totally at peace with dying. If there is a creator, I would assume it understands why my brain, heart and gut have all led me to think/feel/believe like I do. I saw in another response you're explanation for being here. I too find other religions interesting, some mythologies fascinating, but you seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time, and seem to be rather invested in something you believe to be foolishness. Maybe you're here for a reason you don't realize, or for a reason you're not admitting to yourself. It can sometimes be difficult to determine tone in written word, but please understand I'm saying this with love. You've been coming back for a while now, and part me of thinks you want to be convinced. You're familiar with the Bible, so you'll know that no one truly seeks God, He seeks us first. You had said "if God exists." If you will allow me the conceit that He indeed does, what does mean for you? You've come here and received the same message from so many. If God exists, that means you are special to Him, He is seeking you out, He wants you. I know you're natural reaction may be to dismiss the idea, please don't. Just give it some thought. You dont even have to tell anyone. You can reply and tell me Im nuts. If there is even the slightest possibility that the creator of literally everything is seeking you, that deserves at least some thought. You've intimated that you're open to the possibility of God existing. Maybe just throw up a "Are you there God? It's me, sorrynotsorry." Then go from there. It's not going to hurt. I will keep you in my prayers. |
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my point is I’m not here to throw a wrench in your game, I’m just curious as a non Christian what Christians will do if 2068 passes quietly. Last time I asked a question like this I got the standard “save yourself don’t end up in hell” response and that’s really not what I’m looking for here. One thing Christians don’t seem to understand about nonchristians is that threatening them will hell doesn’t work. It’s like if I threatened you with the Islamic version of hell, you just wouldn’t care because you don’t believe in it. Anyways that’s a side note, I’d just like to keep the responses about what it would mean for Christianity if rapture doesn’t happen in next 50 years, not about hellfire.
And my mind absolutely does not work that way!
