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Post by mike on Aug 19, 2018 8:57:18 GMT -6
Was Mohammed the false prophet? Did the Lord break the seals releasing the four horsemen 1400 years ago?
As I approach most of the study and learning of historical facts when applying them to prophecy I consider but don't dive in head first as these are not fundamental to faith. However when consduering these my faith is encouraged to want to know Him more and to share His truth with others.
Take this in and consider the possibility. I know there are other thoughts on this topic and I respect those. Thought I would share this one for all interested.
Have a blessed Sunday
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Post by mike on Aug 19, 2018 9:44:47 GMT -6
So now I'm watching other videos on this channel and this video is quite interesting and challenging. Please watch and think about a few things that we may be pre programmed to. As we read Daniel most understand Alexander the Great and his role at the time Daniel was written. When reviewing this video apply the same reasoning. How does someone in history past fulfill prophecy, but we can discount the historical application and try to see another?
I am not saying this is 100% accurate as I am not certain but it certainly makes me want to understand more
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 11:37:26 GMT -6
My first reaction after watching some videos from this guy was, woooah what a stretch.... But as mike said, we are often enough preprogrammed in our views. Still studying this teachings with the bible opened.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 2:43:34 GMT -6
After digging deeper and deeper I would like to encourage you to check this on your own. There is also a website with lots more and written information. Bottom line is that this guy says that lots of biblical prophecy is yet fulfilled and not future. Especially in regard to the seals of revelation and Islam. Have you ever noticed, that the colors of the 4 horsemen from revelation often are the same colors of muslim countries? The "palestine" flag i.e. comprises of white, red, black and green. The 4th horseman in revelation is dwscribed as pale, in greek chloros which should be better translated as green. I know that this may sound strange for someone being raised in a complete different endtime view. But it may help us in understanding whats going on and connecting the dots.
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2018 8:18:39 GMT -6
Thanks @stephan me too. I have heard about the colors of the many flags in the middle East being Red, White, Black & Green. In fact they line up with those from Ezekiel who will attack Israel. What really had me thinking about this more and more is history. Why is it that we try to cram the entire book of Revelation into a 3.5 or 7 year time frame? The book of Daniel (along with others) is often used in concert with Rev to gain understanding, but why? Why isn't it wasn't most of Daniel written for pre-messiah time? Is it necessary to apply the majority of the prophetic from Daniel to our time? Back to my point earlier, it is widely held that Alexander the Great was the kingdom that fell and divided. Why can't certain new testament prophecies be applied to the last 2000 yrs? There are many NT scriptures that day we are in the last days. The last days are the last 2000 years collectively
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 10:25:06 GMT -6
The view of the seals being yet opened reminds me partially of rt's bible study which I received from her and have read some months ago. Maybe the interpretation of the riders is different, but the seals are also yet opened and since several hundred of years. This could indeed result in a BIG surprise for many (xxxx-trib) believers when the really (!) missing events are starting to play out... Just as a deceased bible teacher once said: We are living in exciting times The revelation-now guy (don't really know who this is) evinces IMO a very humble and also gospel-like attitude: Spread the good message (especially to muslims) NOW while we still have time. And he is pretty well focussed on Israel. This is a plus in my eyes. I'm not fully sold on his endtimes-math mainly (but not always) equating a day with a year, but maybe I have to do further study to find a valid explanation for this on his site.
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Post by rt on Aug 21, 2018 10:44:22 GMT -6
Okay So this video implies that the 70th week has been fulfilled in the past and thus may be preteristic in view, though to be fair I haven't researched it enough to know this for certain.
One major flaw is that the interpretation is based on what I believe is a faulty foundation:
"Much bible prophecy is about the warning of the false doctrine of Islam"
I disagree with this view.
Also Umar did not fulfill Daniel 11 :37- a piont the author did not address, where it says that the reason he shows no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women or any other god is because he will magnify himself above them all. In other words he will see himself as God. Umar saw Allah as God he didn't magnify himself to be greater than allah.
Just my opinion but I would steer clear of this man's teachings.
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2018 11:11:01 GMT -6
Okay So this video implies that the 70th week has been fulfilled in the past and thus may be preteristic in view, though to be fair I haven't researched it enough to know this for certain. One major flaw is that the interpretation is based on what I believe is a faulty foundation: "Much bible prophecy is about the warning of the false doctrine of Islam" I disagree with this view. Also Umar did not fulfill Daniel 11 :37- a piont the author did not address, where it says that the reason he shows no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women or any other god is because he will magnify himself above them all. In other words he will see himself as God. Umar saw Allah as God he didn't magnify himself to be greater than allah. Just my opinion but I would steer clear of this man's teachings. But RT how can we discredit this mans teaching in entirety because he applied Umar to something he may not have been? Many people believe the catholic church is the harlot and the pope the false prophet. Is that 100% accurate? Just because someone may see an application doesnt mean stay away from everything they say. Someone could say that of your end time teaching (which I enjoyed). I think he has many valid points and my main thought sharing his information here was to cause others to consider other options that are very possible/plausible. I dont think that we should ignore the last 2000 years of history and try to fit everything in Revelation into a 7 year time frame. Could all of Rev fit, perhaps. Could it have been that the first 4-5 seals have been opened since the ascension? Very possible
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Post by Natalie on Aug 21, 2018 11:12:37 GMT -6
Sorry, I deleted my post...I am having trouble quoting and editing. I will try back later.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 11:28:08 GMT -6
Thank you for your clear statement rt. I am in no way suggesting, you are supporting his theological view or your views depend on his writings....sorry if I came across that way. I don't think this guy is a preterist. If you are willing to dig a bit deeper, his writings on his website are in no way supporting this (also in my eyes) false doctrine. The false doctrine of Islam has but admittedly far-reaching influence, about 25-30% of todays world population are muslims. I think, that the bible surely does address this point, though bible prophecy points in my eyes mainly to Jesus Christ and his kingdom. And to say it again, I am sure that no one (here or elsewhere) has everything 100% correct. Maybe he is focussing too much on Islam, just as some other guys are focussing too much on the U.S. It all depends on the background you have....
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Post by rt on Aug 21, 2018 12:30:28 GMT -6
Okay So this video implies that the 70th week has been fulfilled in the past and thus may be preteristic in view, though to be fair I haven't researched it enough to know this for certain. One major flaw is that the interpretation is based on what I believe is a faulty foundation: "Much bible prophecy is about the warning of the false doctrine of Islam" I disagree with this view. Also Umar did not fulfill Daniel 11 :37- a piont the author did not address, where it says that the reason he shows no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women or any other god is because he will magnify himself above them all. In other words he will see himself as God. Umar saw Allah as God he didn't magnify himself to be greater than allah. Just my opinion but I would steer clear of this man's teachings. But RT how can we discredit this mans teaching in entirety because he applied Umar to something he may not have been? Many people believe the catholic church is the harlot and the pope the false prophet. Is that 100% accurate? Just because someone may see an application doesnt mean stay away from everything they say. Someone could say that of your end time teaching (which I enjoyed). I think he has many valid points and my main thought sharing his information here was to cause others to consider other options that are very possible/plausible. I dont think that we should ignore the last 2000 years of history and try to fit everything in Revelation into a 7 year time frame. Could all of Rev fit, perhaps. Could it have been that the first 4-5 seals have been opened since the ascension? Very possible Hi Mike, to be clear I did say I had not done enough research to know for certain about this guy, but when someone says things that aren't true and tries to fit a historical event into the prophetic glove, in my mind the rest of what he thinks about prophecy is suspect. Yes I could be wrong about what I say too, and you are free to debate the merits of my speculation. But what he claims happened, didn't actually happen, Umar did not fulfill all the prophecies in Daniel as he says he did, he also did not fulfill the prophecies in the revelation about the beast. He claims that Mecca and the Kaaba are the image of the beast, if the image of the beast has been set up for centuries then why haven't we seen the rest of the prophecies fulfilled that relate to it? He also says in the other video (I didn't watch it all) that the four horses of the seals are the four Islamic caliphates. Sure Islam may factor into end times prophecy, it may even be a vehicle used to fulfill the seals, but the caliphates were mere men, I do not believe that the riders of the horses are men but spiritual beings, in Zechariah 1 and 6 we see other colored horses and riders and the scripture tells us what they are: These spirit beings affect geopolitical events on earth. Just like in Daniel, there were "princes" that ruled over certain areas, (Dan 10:20). Since scripture records other colored horses and riders who patrol the earth, it is a reasonable assumption that these seal horses and riders are also spiritual in nature and not actual men on earth. We see a similar affect in Ezekiel 9:1-11. here Ezekiel describes six men that draw near to Jerusalem with weapons in their hands and one with a writing case. The one with the writing case was to go through the city and mark all the foreheads of those who mourned over the abominations that were happening so that they would survive the onslaught of those with the weapons. Were these actual men on earth- no, but they did influence events on earth. We know that the weapon they used was the Babylonian army. At any given point in history these spiritual forces influence forces on earth. Right now I would agree that they may be influencing geopolitics through Islamic forces on earth. Along with other forces as well. Those who follow Islam may have been used in the past as well to accomplish God's will on earth. Aren't we told in scripture that we don't wrestle against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities? I think it is dangerous to build an entire foundation of interpretation on mere speculation. When you draw a conclusion that Islam is the foundation to understanding, then you build a teaching on that foundation which may be flawed. I am not saying that Islam or the catholic church or the pope or any other system or person might not be what is used to fulfill prophecy, I do not know. I try to keep my speculations about things to a scriptural basis, looking to God's word to shed light on the gray areas while avoiding speculating outside of what scripture says. Yes I have done so, but am always clear to say that I am speculating and may be wrong.
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Post by rt on Aug 21, 2018 12:44:19 GMT -6
Thank you for your clear statement rt . I am in no way suggesting, you are supporting his theological view or your views depend on his writings....sorry if I came across that way. I don't think this guy is a preterist. If you are willing to dig a bit deeper, his writings on his website are in no way supporting this (also in my eyes) false doctrine. The false doctrine of Islam has but admittedly far-reaching influence, about 25-30% of todays world population are muslims. I think, that the bible surely does address this point, though bible prophecy points in my eyes mainly to Jesus Christ and his kingdom. And to say it again, I am sure that no one (here or elsewhere) has everything 100% correct. Maybe he is focussing too much on Islam, just as some other guys are focussing too much on the U.S. It all depends on the background you have.... Hi @stephan, I didn't think that is what you meant, no harm done. I agree that Islam is very destructive and deceptive and it's influence in the world is growing dramatically. Scripture certainly does have a lot to say about false prophets and doctrine. As I said above, it may even factor into end times fulfillment of prophecy. But how we interpret scripture matters. It shouldn't matter what our "background" is, it matters what the words actually say, not what we think they say, or what seems to fit in our minds. Or what popular consensus says. What clues can we glean from scripture itself that help us to shed light on those gray areas (as I said)? Now I am not saying we should throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water, there is much to learn from the study of others. But if we are not studied up ourselves we can easily fall for what may be false understanding. You can find all kinds of ideas out there that try to explain prophecy. There are hundreds of thousands maybe millions of videos online, a myriad of books and sermons galore on the subject. How does one weed through it all and come to know who is on the right track and who isn't? Well one thing I do is see if what they say lines up with what scripture says, if it doesn't then move on. There are plenty of other fish in that sea. What this person claims doesn't add up to what scripture says.
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2018 13:15:13 GMT -6
RT - I understand and simply didnt want others or you to dismiss what this person was holding out for us to learn from. All 15-16 of his videos are about Islam being the false religion. He makes A LOT of very good points in the two I watched. As you acknowledge we are all prone to making errors and hopefully (for this person) he can acknowledge that. If he does not, we should pray he can/does and other discern his teaching.
I looked a little further at the Daniel 11 prophecy:
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
as the video explained Umar did meet all of these except perhaps magnifying himself above all. But I offer a look at my understanding of how the information was presented. Maybe i gleaned it from the second video too, cant recall. Umar was in control of everything he possibly could be. Pride filled this mans being (sound familiar). He certainly exalted himself above the false gods and our God. Verse 37 is inclusive of our God not his (allah). That was how I took it, perhaps how he meant it. Point being I didnt want to toss it out with the bathwater.
Again I'm not 100% sold on this idea, especially the 4 horsemen. Could they be a type - certainly! are they the actual horsemen, probably not but what I am starting to see throughout history and prophecy is the anti-christ spirit permeates in all things. Whether you apply this teaching to that principle or a 7 year timeline of the horsemen etc. or the catholic church or whatever, the fallen nature of the sinful man combined with the work of the enemy and his minions, we see a repeat of things over and over.
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Post by kjs on Sept 2, 2018 9:20:21 GMT -6
Thanks @stephan me too. I have heard about the colors of the many flags in the middle East being Red, White, Black & Green. In fact they line up with those from Ezekiel who will attack Israel. What really had me thinking about this more and more is history. Why is it that we try to cram the entire book of Revelation into a 3.5 or 7 year time frame? The book of Daniel (along with others) is often used in concert with Rev to gain understanding, but why? Why isn't it wasn't most of Daniel written for pre-messiah time? Is it necessary to apply the majority of the prophetic from Daniel to our time? Back to my point earlier, it is widely held that Alexander the Great was the kingdom that fell and divided. Why can't certain new testament prophecies be applied to the last 2000 yrs? There are many NT scriptures that day we are in the last days. The last days are the last 2000 years collectively I am no expert (nor do I play one on TV...) But when one reads Daniel 12 .... It appears to align very well with the time period spoken of in Revelation about the man of lawlessness (or 666 himself) ..... So it does appear several of Daniel's prophecies do align with the last days (which have not occurred yet .... So appear to be future events) so I do think Daniel 9 last portion of it speaks to our time period, with 12 speaking primarily of the time of Tribulation.... of course all the above is my opinion......
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Post by yardstick on Sept 3, 2018 11:03:57 GMT -6
This discussion seems to tie nicely into the point Chuck Missler made about how Satan always has to have a guy waiting in the wings, because he doesn't know when the Harpazo will occur. Therefore, it could certainly be possible that Umar was a 'type' of AC. If we consider that the 'types' are 'flawed' AC's in the sense that they may not fulfill ALL prophecy that has been made, but only some of it. The "last" may be the only AC that fufills ALL the relevant prophecies... unsealed.boards.net/thread/1598/missler-insights
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