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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 17:07:03 GMT -6
Yes, sir, Yardstick. That's the only way I've ever understood it. He, the Anti-Christ - Jewish - has a covenant with many - the surrounding nations. I've never even heard any other scenario presented. ??.
But you mentioned we might have it backwards. The scenario I have always heard is that the AC who is from the Rome beast has the deal with Israel and other nations, namely the muslim ones. |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 17:09:49 GMT -6
Not saying this is the A/C, but there's a documentary about him already: I think the main problem is that he isn't Jewish - but a Muslim turned Christian: Nope, not the A/C. Spot on, Socalexile. ;-) O chance. Zero. Jews hate Muslims/ and they dislike Christians. There is Biblical Evidence from scripture and extra-Biblical evidence that the Antichrist will be Jewish. The Jews are so legalistic that the priests they are training for the 3rd Temple have to be from the tribe of Levi. ***In order for a red heifer to qualify, it can't even have two white or black hairs, - inspected by rabbis. ;-) And some people think that they will "accept" a Christian, former muslim as their Messiah??? That's why I always laugh when people claim Obama or the Pope will be the Anti-Christ.
Fact-check what he says against scripture. Also, 'by their fruits you shall know them' applies. |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 17:15:31 GMT -6
I know things get lost when written unless you write a book, but what do you mean by "right Jesus"? From what I've read in this thread (quoted by socalexile ) this person (Musab) believes in the Jesus who died for the sins of mankind, and rose from the dead. This was why I said He judges not us. Well, this is the thing. Like I said my best friend is Mormon. Not just a Mormon but a very good, strong practicing Mormon. We have had many discussions about Jesus, the bible, heaven, etc. She believes that we were all Spiritual beings in heaven before we can to the earth as humans. We came here to be tested. She does not believe nor is taught that Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are one. They are completely separate, each with different qualities. To her, we become equal to Jesus in heaven if we
do all that we should in this life. To my knowledge she doesn't pray to Jesus and believes that we are literal brothers and sisters of Jesus (not just spiritual). Jesus has not always existed but was born from union between Heavenly Father and Mary. "How do you know if you have done enough?" Because the above bolded statement pre-supposes that you knew everything that you had to do at the time of your birth. (works based --->> religion) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 17:15:32 GMT -6
yardstick "The scenario I have always heard is that the AC who is from the Rome beast has the deal with Israel and other nations, namely the muslim ones.
"
I agree with this view, although Joel Richardson makes a case that the antichrist must come out of the Middle East, and I find his explanation unconvincing. Rome destroyed the Temple, so Romans are the "people" of the prince who is to come. Rome represents Western power...therefore, I conclude the antichrist comes out of the West, not necessarily Rome itself. Joel Richardson contends that the Roman soldiers who destroyed the Temple were actually local recruits...therefore the "people" who destroyed the Temple were the forerunners of Muslims from the Middle East, therefore the "Assyrian" is a muslim of middle eastern origin......I am not convinced.
I think it is possible that the antichrist could be a westerner who is also muslim, maybe in name only....we will see, just my current thought at the moment!
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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 17:23:26 GMT -6
yardstick "The scenario I have always heard is that the AC who is from the Rome beast has the deal with Israel and other nations, namely the muslim ones. " I agree with this view, although Joel Richardson makes a case that the antichrist must come out of the Middle East, and I find his explanation unconvincing. Rome destroyed the Temple, so Romans are the "people" of the prince who is to come. Rome represents Western power...therefore, I conclude the antichrist comes out of the West, not necessarily Rome itself. Joel Richardson contends that the Roman soldiers who destroyed the Temple were actually local recruits...therefore the "people" who destroyed the Temple were the forerunners of Muslims from the Middle East, therefore the "Assyrian" is a muslim of middle eastern origin......I am not convinced. I think it is possible that the antichrist could be a westerner who is also muslim, maybe in name only....we will see, just my current thought at the moment! Hey sam, I just learned in the last couple years by watching Dr. Chuck Missler that the Rome power was split (two legs of Daniels multi-metal statue) into the Old Roman Empire and the (eventually called) Byzantine empire. There were two Roman Empires at one point! The Western Empire with capital at Rome, and the Eastern empire with capital at Constantinople! The old Roman empire is basically defunct (except that its still taught as the Rome beast - RCC?); but the Byzantine empire...well... that covers the area that used to be called Assyria... including Turkey and the northern part of Iraq. Specifically, the Mosul area... this, I have heard, is the area where Mr. Richardson is referring to, regarding the middle east... I do not know if it has been pointed out to you that the Roman empire split into two empires per Daniel's prophecy... This is how the prophetic references to Assyria could be tied to the AC and the Roman empire! |
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Post by cshaffer on Oct 1, 2017 17:23:26 GMT -6
Well, this is the thing. Like I said my best friend is Mormon. Not just a Mormon but a very good, strong practicing Mormon. We have had many discussions about Jesus, the bible, heaven, etc. She believes that we were all Spiritual beings in heaven before we can to the earth as humans. We came here to be tested. She does not believe nor is taught that Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are one. They are completely separate, each with different qualities. To her, we become equal to Jesus in heaven if we
do all that we should in this life. To my knowledge she doesn't pray to Jesus and believes that we are literal brothers and sisters of Jesus (not just spiritual). Jesus has not always existed but was born from union between Heavenly Father and Mary. "How do you know if you have done enough?" Because the above bolded statement pre-supposes that you knew everything that you had to do at the time of your birth. (works based --->> religion) Yes, I know. It is a wacky religion. I once asked her what if the book of Mormon and the bible contradict which do you believe, she said they wont. She gave me the book of Mormon and I started reading it. It contradicts itself. I pray for her. I told my husband, it is like they put the Bible in a blender and spit out the book of Mormon. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 17:45:45 GMT -6
Yes yardstick, it is possible! At the time of Daniel's prophecy, the split hadn't happened yet....so it was just "Romans" at the time. While I concede Joel could be correct, on the preponderance of the facts at the time, I still favor Rome representing the West, and the AC comes out of the "West". Now, could it be the AC comes out of the Eastern portion of the West? Yes, that is plausible! Pergamon is the seat of Satan.....and Pergamon was ruled at the time by Lysimachus of Thrace, not Seleucid, Ptolemy, Antigonus, or Cassander.....Thrace included Pergamom as well as modern day Bulgaria and southern Ukraine....therefore it is not out of the question that the AC might arise from the region ruled by Lysimachus
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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 17:48:10 GMT -6
Yes yardstick, it is possible! At the time of Daniel's prophecy, the split hadn't happened yet....so it was just Romans at the time. While I concede Joel could be correct, on the preponderance of the facts at the time, I still favor Rome representing the West, and the AC comes out of the "West". Now, could that be the AC comes out of the Eastern portion of the West? Yes, that is plausible! Pergamon is the seat of Satan.....and Pergamon was is the area of Lysimachus of Thrace, not Seleucid, Ptolemy, Antigonus, or Cassander.....Thrace included Pergamom as well as modern day Bulgaria and southern Ukraine....therefore it is not out of the question that the AC might arise from the region ruled by Lysimachus Can you share where you got 'west' from? I dont recall hearing this before. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 17:52:06 GMT -6
Rome was the west.......extending it's rule to the western limits of the known world......Rome was then a "western" power, and still is considered part of the "west".....Egypt is "south" from Daniel, and Assyria/Turkey "north", and the sons of the east are defined elsewhere. Greece arose as the goat out of the "west", and Rome not only conquered the Greeks, but is even further west.
I suppose that in the minds of the Mediterranean world, Rome, Kittim, Tarsus, Javan, Greece were of the West...just my thinking!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 18:04:20 GMT -6
I also suppose based on Daniel 8, the AC comes out of the west......even Joel would agree from his futurist view of Daniel 8, although the little horn would be from Javan, and the eastern portion of the west, possibly even Turkey according to Joel
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Post by kjs on Oct 1, 2017 18:23:28 GMT -6
I also suppose based on Daniel 8, the AC comes out of the west......even Joel would agree from his futurist view of Daniel 8, although the little horn would be from Javan, and the eastern portion of the west, possibly even Turkey according to Joel Chuck Missler has several good studies out, so really should check out some of them. Interesting to note that the legions that were under the command of the son whose father became the next Ceaser ( i.e. The people who actually fought) were the eastern branch - one of Chuck's studies list them - not sure of them other wise would state them. But one group was the Assyrians and one of the prophets mention the leader to come is The Assyrian. Think strong possibility that AC will come from Assyria ..... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 18:36:25 GMT -6
Good point kjs! The book of Daniel states the "little horn" arises from one of the four horns....to me it implies Seleucid (after defeating Antigonus at the Battle of Ipsus), Lysimachus, Ptolemy, or Cassander......it's interesting to me that Pergamon, the seat of Satan, is in western Turkey, but was part of the northern division of Lysimachus, which included Bulgaria, southern Ukraine.....
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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 18:37:42 GMT -6
I also suppose based on Daniel 8, the AC comes out of the west......even Joel would agree from his futurist view of Daniel 8, although the little horn would be from Javan, and the eastern portion of the west, possibly even Turkey according to Joel Sam, Have you heard the theory about Daniel 8 referring to Alexander the Great - Greece - (west goat), Persia (two horned Ram) and the 4 horns from the goat's one horn that broke off (Alexander died and his 4 generals divided his kingdom)? EDIT: After reading your post right above this one, I see you know who the 4 generals are. Can you post the Joel reference please? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 18:41:18 GMT -6
Yes, I subscribe to the division of 4 as do most....although Joel denies there were 4 clear divisions....I disagree with him on that, but it is a complicated discussion. Here is a link to Joel's "free" resources: joelstrumpet.com/resources/I think Joel is well meaning, and pre-wrath, but I do not agree with him on several of his teaching points |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 1, 2017 19:07:23 GMT -6
Yes, I subscribe to the division of 4 as do most....although Joel denies there were 4 clear divisions....I disagree with him on that, but it is a complicated discussion. Here is a link to Joel's "free" resources: joelstrumpet.com/resources/I think Joel is well meaning, and pre-wrath, but I do not agree with him on several of his teaching points FWIW, i see he has the halal symbol in the upper left of his front page. You may wish to check out the thread called December 25, 2017..Rapture? for some potentially relevant discussion related to halal. After reading one of the PDFs i agree with you about disagreeing with him. |
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