Great Eagle is the US?

Hi, bernie! Welcome to the forum! I'm so glad you've joined us!

I've heard a number of people that believe the "place in the wilderness" is Petra in Jordan. Also, wings in the USAF are a units of aircraft. The army uses units terms like, battalions, brigades, and divisions. But the air force uses squadrons, groups, and "wings." So on the wings of a great eagle could be a number of aircraft from particular AF wing. Also the IAF uses a large number of aircraft that are american made. It's also not out of the realm of possibility that God could create an actual bird that large. Also a large aircraft today could have looked like an eagle to John.

There are a number of possibilities, but I suggest looking at Daniel 7 and the first beast, too.

In regards to the multiple places in the Bible where wings of the eagle are mentioned, I generally take this to refer to aircraft in general, or it can refer to the mother of aircraft, the USA--whose national symbol is the Eagle.

The term definitely has a figurative aspect to it, that goes along with the idiom in (older) English to refer to running away as "flying." For those familiar with the Lord of the Rings, you'll remember Gandalf's iconic line, "Fly, you fools!"

In the Bible the reference to flying, and eagle's wings, can certainly be seen as having an idiomatic application to fleeing away in great haste and managing to escape--or possibly having capabilities in warfare, etc. I think that's how the people of Old Testament times, and probably New Testament times would have viewed these verses--to add more is to speculate or discern that God may have intended something more literal (like airplanes) that the Bible-time people could not easily comprehend.

Those verses were so beautiful MissusMack! I can't believe how I used to think how boring the OT was, especially Deuteronomy and Exodus. Not boring at all, but amazing and so so beautiful. 

The following, just my thoughts, from my own pea brain that is not only very small but also full of sin. So receive it knowing that it is just the thoughts of a very sinful and fallen woman (though one who is saved by Grace through Yeshua ):

If one reads the article that sam linked, and then reads Matthew 24, the entire chapter. But here is Matthew 24:27-31:


27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (This is talking about the Rapture, not when Jesus comes to rule and reign on earth, but when He comes to get us.)

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (The carcase is the dead in Christ and then in Luke 17:37 talks about the body, those alive in Jesus at the time of the Rapture. There with us will the eagles be (angels that He has sent to gather us up with the four winds).

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  (I *think* "the tribulation of those days" refers to the end of the Church Age which is also the time in which all the seals have been opened already except for the 7th, and the 7th IS the Rapture, is the battle in heaven with Michael and the dragon, is when the dragon casts down the 1/3 stars. Also...  I don't know for sure...  but is it possible that "the dragon" is actually the sun; the one we look at everyday? Is it the sun, Lucifer, star of the morning, the ONLY daytime star and gives light to the entire earth and because satan was granted and had/has such an important role he became prideful, infatuated with himself and his own beauty and just let it all go to his head? And so all the stars that we see in the 2nd heaven including the sun will be cast down (also, this requires not believing NASA and what man has always taught us about outer space and the stars and they will not completely destroy the earth when they come down; obviously I would imagine they will do some damage though and EVERYONE will be aware of it. Probably a great earthquake upon the entire earth, floods, fires, and all kinds of catastrophe, but it is not going to kill everyone. Once they get to earth though they will say they are "aliens", "gods", "higher beings" sent to help the earth and fix the big mess we have made of it down here. People will fall for it hook, line, and sinker. So ends the "tribulation" of these days and the start of the actual Tribulation (trumpet and bowl judgements). ()

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  (As the stars are falling from heaven and all this chaos is happening, then shall appear the sign the Son of man...  Jesus. Maybe even AFTER the sun/dragon/satan has himself been cast down and so since no sun and no moon EVERYONE will see! He has come to get we who belong to Him. And we need to remember Lot's wife, and not run back into our house, or turn back for anything that is on or of the earth. And that is harder than it sounds because think if we want to go get our toddler, or our spouse, or someone we love. We can't. If we do we will end up like Lot's wife. We have to TRUST JESUS with EVERYTHING, including our children and our spouses. TRUST HIM. And go with Him. Those who do not know Jesus though, they will know it is Him, and also that they don't know Him and that is why they are not going up with Him and with us. IT WILL BE CRYSTAL CLEAR. And they will mourn and of course they will be scared out of their mind as the world seemingly is crashing down all around them. Thing is though...  they will know. And once the dragon realizes what has happened, gives up on the woman (maybe the 144,000 who are carried to a safe place by an angel; the wings of the eagle...  and not sure on the timing of that). The dragon establishes himself here on the earth and then people have a choice to make: Jesus and physical death (which is really LIFE ETERNAL). Or...  Satan/follow the dragon/the beast/all those that are Satan's and keep one's physical life for 7 more years at most but what they are choosing is DEATH. 

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  (We are the elect that are gathered.)



I don't know how it is all going to play out. I just know it is going to be so soon! And it is SO SO important we stay close to Jesus and trust Him with everyone and everything. 

Maybe, when all this catastrophe happens...  and there will be many that finally "wake up" (like we have been praying for them to). Unfortunately though, they will have woken up too late. Those who have empty lamps though...  better believe at that point their lamps are going to be filled with oil overflowing when they see all of this take place. They will right then "wake up". They unfortunately were foolish, and so they were not accounted worthy to escape Wrath. 

Luke 21:36

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

They will no longer be foolish though. And they will go through Tribulation fighting with us, just that they will still have mortal sinful bodies and be here on earth. 

There are still the 12 tribes of Israel though. And the 12,000 from each tribe who will definitely make it through Tribulation, will be carried away to their place by the wings of a great eagle, and God will nourish them for a time, times, and half a time. We all know that "Jews" are Judah. And Judah in the OT was the southern kingdom comprised of Judah and Benjamin. And so that will be 24,000. There are still 10 other tribes though, that I don't even think they know who they are (God scattered them upon the face of the entire earth; the ones who survived anyway). For all we know...  we ourselves could be of one of those tribes. 

We who believe though, along with all the Jews who believe...  will be gathered together and caught up to be with Jesus. Those who are still here on earth though, and I don't know who they are but God does, and after they "wake up" or after they realize the truth that is Jesus Christ...  they will, 144,000 of them, be gathered together and taken on the wings of a great eagle (angel) to their place, to the wilderness, maybe Petra...  wherever the place is that God has prepared for them to nourish them and keep them safe through Tribulation (the real one, His Wrath). They will be saved by Him, and they will be His Remnant here on earth still. 

There will be other's saved I am sure, who are not of the 12 tribes. For them, it is most likely they will lose their physical life at some point during the Tribulation. Doesn't matter though, because of Matthew 10:39 (other verses too):

He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Because those who choose the dragon, the beast, take the mark of the beast...    they are choosing death. 


(Not saying it will be exactly like this. Just what I'm thinking and I know much of it flies in the face of what we have been taught by man, that if we know Jesus no matter what we will be raptured. Lately though, just that I can't ignore how many, both "Big Names" and many others...  they scoff, are nasty, and completely dismiss all that is happening around us. Because they have "gone back into their house" and unfortunately they view their "house" as being on earth instead of in Heaven. They are choosing their pride, their sin, and that of this earth. Just like the Pharisees did. And there is still time for them to "wake up" and go with us when Jesus comes. Regardless, they will eventually be in Heaven because even though they are rolling in mud right now, they still are Children of the King. And He will fill their lamps when He comes to get the rest of us whose lamps are already full. I don't "know" that I'm right and maybe they will all go with us in the Rapture. So many verses though I can not discount. Even the one I posted in this my "book of the day" that says "watch and pray always that we may be accounted worthy to escape". It doesn't say...  "Everyone who belongs to Jesus will escape." It says WATCH! And PRAY! So many are not doing that right now.  

If there is one thing I have been taught this past year by The Holy Spirit...  and I say this with 100% absolute certainty that 100% The Holy Spirit has told me this...  Do not subscribe to any theory that is of man. 

This includes my thoughts in my post above. They are thoughts, not facts. If I would have stated they were facts, then I would need to be cautioned. 

There is about a 99.9% chance my thoughts above are wrong. Maybe partially, maybe totally.

The other thing The Holy Spirit has taught me, also 100% certain this comes from The Holy Spirit...   "All men are wrong. This includes you Tiffany." That said, I have no problem in anyone disagreeing with what I've typed, and I'm not saying that I myself agree with it. 

Just as I don't trust any of my own theories, I don't trust Gary's either (sorry Gary, nothing personal, but as far as I know you are a human man). Scottie Clarke, Chuck Missler, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Vernon McGee (who I love by the way), the pre-trib theories ascribed to at the old forum I used to frequent Rapture Ready (and many pre-tribbers right now who completely are disregarding all that is happening because all of their "big name" teachers disagree with it, dismiss it, criticize it, don't allow it to even be discussed amongst their circles, some going so far as to say to shun and ridicule anyone who believes in the Revelation 12 Sign because they are false teachers and on their way to Hell because they believe in the Rev 12 sign which is "astrology" (not). There are a million names of a million men who hold to a million different "theories". I believe NONE of them. This includes my own "theories". 

I don't trust "me". And no one else would be very wise to trust me either. Not because I will intentionally lie or lead in the wrong direction. But because I am human and fallen and therefore...  I know nothing. Any man-made terms, ideas, rituals, traditions, theories, etc...  just that I don't ascribe to any of it or believe any of it 100%. There are bits and pieces that are thought of by "man", which are right. And then there are lots of big bits and pieces that are wrong. No man has all the "right" answers. Anyone who trusts, for example, in what "Gary" says or what (fill in the blank of the name of the man/woman) says...  just that I would say they need exercise caution.

The only thing I trust 100%, His Word. Other than that, I don't trust 100% anything or anyone. There are men out there that I have more respect for, such as Vernon McGee; also other men I have almost zero respect for such as Joel Osteen. But I won't find truth in any article written by man. I'll only find it in the Bible. 

I used to consider myself "pre-trib". Now...  I consider myself nothing more than a believer in Jesus Christ. The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, and His Word. The end. Even myself...  I don't trust me.

When I feel led by The Holy Spirit...  I am VERY careful NOT to say, "The Holy Spirit told me..." or any other such thing. Personally, I feel too many people do that, and are not careful enough about it, and then end up saying "The Holy Spirit told them"...  when in fact...  no...  The Holy Spirit didn't tell them. Sometimes, when I truly feel so, I will say that "I feel led". But even then, I won't say 100%... "The Holy Spirit told me that a means x,y,z." Or whatever other thing. Other than that, I'll do what I did above, say that I'm not saying I'm right but that here are my thoughts...  and then say them. That way I know that I'm not falsely ascribing anything to The Holy Spirit. That would make me a false teacher and I don't want to be that. 

If I were told direct by The Father, The Son, or The Holy Spirit something; was told out loud, literally, audibly, no mistaking it...  then yes, I would share it that "The Holy Spirit told me...". Or I suppose if the Lord revealed to me that I am a prophet, or I am whatever He would tell me I am...  if told literally by the Lord, who am I to argue? But so far...  nope...  hasn't happened. Don't really expect it to.

I'm sorry if you took it that way though, like I was saying "this is the way it is". I believe in exactly zero of man's theories. Actually, it's why I have so much respect for Scottie Clarke. Because he doesn't claim to know everything, and he doesn't say 100% this is what it means and this is the day and it is because I said so. Personally, I believe that the church since it's inception, has been doing way too much of believing in "man" instead of believing in God and in His Word. It's how we got into the mess we are today with so many different denominations, so many different man made terms, so many different theories. All of leads to SO MUCH DISAGREEMENT. And it divides the Body of Christ. I am so done with theories, terms, man man rituals, setting any man no matter who it is on a pedestal. For me, it is only God who sits up there.

It's not my intention to come across as argumentative. But I do disagree with being directed to go read the doctrine of a human man, especially when I never said "this is the way it is", but merely "these are my thoughts and I am just a fallen woman. It's why I said it, because I do not trust myself. I do appreciate your word of caution. No worries though, as I believe in no doctrine of man, at all. It's only His Word for me! 

God Bless you Sister!

It is absolutely ok and no need to apologize, though I do appreciate it. *BIG HUGS*

I agree with you, that as brothers and sisters who all follow Jesus and are all a part of His Body, that we should caution each other. It's just that when we do, instead of directing to something written by man, we should direct towards actual scripture, chapter, verse and like you just did above!

If there is one thing I dislike lately, it is labels, and also, actually especially, "theories". It'd be ok if we humans treated theories as per the definition of the word "theory": www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory

Most of us though, we don't. What most people tend to do, is once they find a theory they like; they think this is it and I have the answer! Well, no. What one has is a "theory". By definition, not an answer, not a fact. It's why so many get disappointed and then fall away from Christ and end up blaming Him...  for example...  when some person's "theory" (such as Harold Camping and NOT saying anyone here ever ascribed to that and just example)...   doesn't come to pass...    people who ascribed to said theory and believe in it the same as they believe in God's Word...   they then put the same importance in their mind and make it equal with The Bible. Then it fails them because it is not God's Word and is 100% of man. But since in people's minds they have placed it as equal with, equated it with God's Word...  they get mad...  they get upset...  disappointed...   shake their fist at God and ask God why did He lie...   and many even end up falling away. 

See, the problem with that, is that of course putting words of men equal with words of God is not a good thing. (Whether they give a disclaimer or not before they say the words, a person should automatically think: HUMAN; then categorize under the "human" category in their mind, or the actual "theory" category.) The category that is highest, that is separate from all others: The Bible, The Infallible Word of God and Perfection category). What happens...  people who start out with intentions that are good and true (use the Rapture Ready forum as example), somewhere along the line they start either making equal to the Word of God or sometimes even trust MORE than God's word...  the man, the doctrine, the theory. 

Now, it is not for me to judge any other person's heart, and I am SO GLAD it is not! Not talking about you here, or anyone...  but in this example the forum Rapture Ready. The people who are members over there, they have to follow a LONG set of rules. Most of those rules are not God's Rules (His is like this forum, short and sweet). Most of the rules over there are man's rules. 

Guarantee it is how each and every "religion" or "denomination" was started. Take a piece of truth, or even the entire truth (The Bible). Add on a million things "man says", and before you know it, it is not even "of God" anymore. It's of man. Then whatever man who starts whatever denomination, power takes over, corruption...  and they state...  "Ok all human beings: Either you believe like our denomination does...  or it means you do not know Jesus as Lord and Savior...  and ya know what that means people...  HELL". 

I say with much caution (because not my role or any of our role to judge), but I believe that the man who started "that denomination" or "that church", that man is the one headed for Hell. Because he doesn't truly know Jesus. He is so sure "he" is "right" and so he himself and then he brings one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, or even more (think the Catholic church); brings all of them along for the ride. And all I can say...  I wouldn't want to be that one man when he has to stand before God one day. Even though this man is so sure in his heart that he knows Jesus, that he is living his entire life and giving his everything for the purpose of Jesus...  Jesus is going to look at that man....  and He is going to say: "Depart from me. I never knew you." 

"But Lord...  I did c, d, e, f, g, h, i ...  all in Your Name Lord." And maybe Jesus will say something like...  "And...  Was f, g, h, and i...  Was that in The Holy Book I gave you, and that I gave ALL of humanity?" And the man might say, "Well...   I mean...  erm....     you got me there Lord. But c, d, e IS in Your Word Lord. So see?" And Jesus: "No. I don't see. Because you added to My Word. And because of it not only you, but so many others never truly knew ME. I made it so simple for all of you but still most of you...  you wanted to make it complicated...  put your own dot on every i and your own cross on every t. I'm sorry, I do love you but I do not know you. You must depart."

All that...  obviously NOT in the Bible, the exact words I've typed. But I think it is where "man" has gotten most people who claim to be "Christian". Most unfortunately, are not Christian at all. There is even a big chunk of people out there, who really think they know Jesus...  but they don't. Because they think that one has to believe in pre-trib, or partial trib (I'm not even sure what that is as I've never researched it lol). Or they put something else there, in the same category as God's Word. When all God says,

JOHN 3:16:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Or EPHESIANS 2:8-9:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Salvation is: Belief in God and He sent Jesus who was 100% God and 100% human, the only perfect and not corrupt human to have ever walked the earth. He died for us, His perfect, infallible Blood covering the sin of ALL man, ALL who accept it that is. All we have to do...  accept it. And realize that we are 100% wrong and 100% corrupt. We are 100% human and 0% God. He...  100% Perfect and 100% human AND God! Accepting His Sacrifice of His 100% human and 100% Godly and divine Blood...  makes us also just like He is...  which is nothing to do with us because we are 0% God. Accepting Him though makes us 100% human and 100% Him, Divine, God, Perfect. Only He can do this for us and it is 100% His Choice (humans are His Choice and saving us His Choice), and His Gift. Us choosing Him back means we have accepted His Gift. Nothing of ourselves, 0%. Everything of Him, 100%! He covers our "corrupt" and our "wrong" with His "infallible" and His "right". He is amazing and He is EVERYTHING! 

With man, we try...  but we are so, so WRONG. And for whatever reason...  that is 99.9% of the time "the sin" that "gets" us. Not sex. Not alcohol. But pride. People don't realize it, but by all of their "theories" that they then don't treat as theory but as fact and equal to God's Word...  by doing that they are relying upon THEMSELVES instead of relying upon JESUS for Salvation. And unless they "wake up", unless they go to get oil for their lamp and SOON...  they are a goner. And it truly breaks my heart. Because we aren't talking about people who have knowingly sold their soul to Satan, who flaunt their unrighteousness and their sin all over the place and call it "good". We are talking about people who *truly think* that they know Jesus. But see, they are so foolish. Because they don't. 

Maybe that is what the parable is about. People who have given their hearts...  they think they have given them to Jesus...  but really, they haven't. They have given their hearts instead to the brick and mortar church they go to, or to some human who dictates to them what does/does not make them saved. They really do think they know Jesus! But they don't and they have no oil. 

Jesus loves them though. He can see they are trying, that they are seeking. And so when He comes, He will fill their lamps to overflowing with oil. (This part, the filling of their lamps, socalexile a while back posted something here linking the parable of the 10 virgins and then Song of Solomon 3 (describes the wise virgin) and Song of Solomon 5 (describes the foolish virgin but read it and see how the bridegroom leaves for her so much oil that it is everywhere and her hands drip with it). 

I love you MissusMack! All that wasn't meant for you, but hopefully many will read, and many will wake up, and turn to Jesus and who He truly Is, and will TRULY find Him. It's probably way easier than what they are doing now, trying to live by so many rule, or believing they can lose salvation, or having to go confess to some priest or pastor every week. All of that, isn't only un-neccessary; but also...  just...  that is NOT who Jesus is. It is relying upon self/works. And that is NOT what Salvation is.

This part is for you MissusMack: I think me and you are the same in many ways. I think we both have been gifted when it comes to that which is spiritual, both very sensitive as to what is happening in the spiritual realm. From reading here and things you have posted...  just that many of our experiences are similar. And so...  BIG HUGS SISTER!