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Post by disciple4life on Sept 19, 2017 2:26:17 GMT -6
Spoiler alert. - Yes it was intentional, and yes, I was hoping people would catch the significance in the Title. 5 points if you get the first one, 20 points and free upload of Homemade Chicken Tortilla Soup, if you get both. Is the Millennium Immanent. Categorically no - but this Thread is not about that. ;-)
I love this Forum, and how others' views challenge my own, and cause me to constantly consider and remember that while some have studied more, and have walked with God more, etc, we all 'see through a glass dimly'. We all only have parts of the puzzle. We have strong feelings about some things, but we won't know fully until we are all in heaven. While I don't believe the Sept 12 alignment is the Rev 12 sign, (that's not the point of this thread) I have learned so much from you, my fellow watchmen. ;-) I've learned more about Daniel and Rev, and different ideas and interacting with fellow watchmen with grace.
The biggest thing I've learned in this last year related to end times. ;-) 1. I'd rather be in a group of watchmen with one who thinks Obama is the Anti-Christ, and one who thinks the Tribulation has already happened, or a Planet X person, than to be in a group of frozen chosen who endlessly parrot 'No One Knows Day.' Icon for head exploding. 2. The church is asleep, and apathetic, and is more obsessed with Sports and Cat memes on FB than studying End Times. 3. While there are many different caveats on Pre-Trib, Mid-Tribulation rapture, Pre-Wrath and Amillennialism, the view of imminent rapture and the Feasts being inseparably linked to Christ are mutually exclusive. - There are lots of theological views that are opposed, but overlap, such as Calvinism vs Arminianism. Love of God vs Justice of God, with these two there is no overlap. I'm using the meaning of 'imminent' to mean - 'At any moment. Could be any day'. ** Not the sense that it could be in our lifetime.
Which view do you hold to and why? Lets look at both. Imminent (two subgroups) and Feasts are Moadim - Set, Times and Inseparably linked to Messiah.
- The rapture is imminent - at any moment, could be any day. **It's important to note that within this camp, there are two groups -those who say that while it could be any day, - (that is the 2nd of Feb, or 3rd of March or next Wednesday, or Halloween, or Christmas) there are still signs that we know it's coming. Think of contractions of a pregnant woman. It won't be a surprise.! We will know the season by signs, but it could be on Thursday afternoon, or Sunday morning.
- Then, there are many in this 'Imminent group' who say it is imminent - could be any day and we just can't know. - no signal, - totally random and no way to know. (This is the view of many if not most Evangelical Churches,) This is the "No one can know the day or hour -so just ignore it" crowd. Surprise!!
- Feasts are Shadows of Things to Come. This group believes that the Feasts not only point to Christ, they are inseparably linked. This group would say that Christ fulfilled the Feasts in Perfect order and in perfect precision. The Feasts, are 'moadim' -appointed times, and are set by God. As such, the Feast of Passover could not have been fulfilled on some day in the Spring, or Fall, and the Feast of Unleavened bread could not be fulfilled on any other day -except the appointed time set by God, 15th of Nissan. This is precisely why the Feast of Trumpets is a huge watch time for watchmen and prophecy teachers.
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 19, 2017 3:49:48 GMT -6
If you're following this thread, by now, you've probably noticed two key things about the title. ;-) Did you see them? - For what it's worth -I am decidedly in the second group. -Feasts are inseparably linked to Christ. I was raised in a very strict, legalistic denomination that taught the Imminent rapture - Pre-Tribulation "Surprise" rapture. The only ones more surprised by the rapture than the Christians will be the world, but they won't know what it was.
- As I have studied, read, research and learn from fellow watchmen, I've come to realize that this Imminent/Surprise is unscriptural, and largely based on two or three verses taken out of context. In the Parable of the Ten Virgins/Bridesmaids, To whom did Christ say, Be Alert for you did not know the day or the hour??
Also, many people quote 1 Thes 5, The Day of the Lord will be like a thief in the night, but they always skip, ignore the next 2 verses. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-6 (NASB)
Paul said in Colossians 2:16-17, that the Feasts and new moons are a shadow of things to come. The whole point of a sign is that it points to something ahead. It warns or announces. [Silentknight] rightly pointed out that they can also show things here, or at hand, or a current event. They are not for nothing. Who puts a stop sign in the middle of a forest?
We know that Feast of Booths/ Sukkot will be fulfilled perfectly at the end of the age, and that it's for all nations - Jews and Gentiles alike. This only leaves two Feasts. Feast of Trumpets and Day of Atonement.
One other huge thing that seems to be missing, (maybe overlooked) is how Paul said that the Gospel was given to the Gentiles to provoke the Jews to Jealousy. Jews will be provoked to jealousy when the resurrection happens - [Jews believe the resurrection will occur on Feast of Trumpets]and Christians are resurrected on their Feast. Jews will be provoked to jealousy when the Bridegroom comes with a shout - [See the story of the 10 Bridesmaids/virgins] and the Bridegroom comes to take his bride to the chuppah for 7 days (wedding chamber) and He takes a Gentile Bride. Maranatha.
3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and )sober.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 8:22:12 GMT -6
I support the feasts model. But I also accept that God can do things outside of the feasts. I also see the feasts as not having only one "fulfillment". Please see: unsealed.boards.net/post/8947 for an explanation. So a feast is not thrown out of the running just because it has a different fulfillment. God is efficient with his appointed times and uses them for multiple, layered fulfillments. It certainly appears that the Feast of Trumpets will be the appointed time for the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ. But it does not necessarily follow that this also has to be the time of the rapture. There are other Feast based patterns that could work as well. See: unsealed.boards.net/post/10070 and unsealed.boards.net/post/10281I would like to point out something that might be useful. disciple4life has consistently and correctly pointed out that something needs to provoke the jews to jealousy. he continues to say that the alignment in the stars won't do that. But I think what some others are saying is, of course not, but that does not mean the sign is not of God and not a pointer to Rev 12. Example: if the dead rise on the Feast of Trumpets the jews will be provoked to jealousy and looking for answers - then the sign will be an explanation that leads to Rev 12 and an understanding of "what" - this will open much more study which will lead to "why." Signs do not need to be before an event or even during an event. They can be left to explain an event as well - We have many historical markers around this country. Each pointing to something that has happened and is noteworthy. One of my favorite signs stood before an open field where once a deep ditch had been. The ditch had been slowly filled over many months as people dumped dirt and other stuff into the ditch. The land owner was trying to fill the ditch. Eventually, the sign read, "The Hole is Full." There was no hole anymore, but the sign was still there to explain what had happened. Also, the star alignment in itself is not intended to provoke jealousy - it is simply to draw our attention to the time and place of Rev 12. Please see: unsealed.boards.net/post/10550 for a better explanation. |
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