The seven thunders

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rt
Berean

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The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 9:48:57 GMT -6 watchmanjim, whatif, and 3 more like this

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Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 9:48:57 GMT -6

So finally have some time to post a short study on the seven thunders.

Revelation 10:1-11
1 I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire;
2 and he had in his hand a little book which was open. He placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land;
3 and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices.
4 When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them.”
5 Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven,
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer,
7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
8 Then the voice which I heard from heaven, I heard again speaking with me, and saying, “Go, take the book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the land.”
9 So I went to the angel, telling him to give me the little book. And he said to me, “Take it and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.”
10 I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and in my mouth it was sweet as honey; and when I had eaten it, my stomach was made bitter.
11 And they said to me, “You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”

John sees is another strong angel holding a little open book; this angel may be Christ Himself as the description is similar to those found earlier in the Revelation. In any case as this “angel” cries out the seven peals of thunder utter their voices to those on the earth. John is about to write what the seven peals of thunder say, but is told to refrain from doing so. What these thunderous voices speak is unknown to the reader; any interpretation of what they may have said in John’s hearing is purely speculative.

Thunder is associated with the throne of God and the voice of heavenly beings.

Revelation 4:5
5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;

Revelation 6:1
1 Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.”

John 12:28-30
28 “Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.”
29 So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.”
30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.

Job 37:2-5
2 “Listen closely to the thunder of His voice, And the rumbling that goes out from His mouth.
3 “Under the whole heaven He lets it loose, And His lightning to the ends of the earth.
4 “After it, a voice roars; He thunders with His majestic voice,
And He does not restrain the lightnings when His voice is heard.
5 “God thunders with His voice wondrously, Doing great things which we cannot comprehend.

Cont'd....

Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 9:57:11 GMT -6 by rt

rt
Berean

Posts: 537

The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 9:53:04 GMT -6 whatif, mike, and 2 more like this

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Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 9:53:04 GMT -6

cont'd...

The angel then declares that there will be delay no longer, in the days of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, at the voice of the seven thunders, then the mystery of God is finished as He preached to His prophets. To get a better handle on the words uttered in “thunder” we need to uncover what the “mystery of God” is. I believe the mystery is Christ Himself and His gospel of salvation in particular to the gentiles.

Romans 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,
26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.

Colossians 1:26-27
26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,
27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:2-3
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Ephesians 3:1-12
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you;
3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

The prophecy that is contained in the seven thunders pertains to the finishing of this mystery. What occurs here is the completion of the fullness of the gentiles:

Romans 11:13-27
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
27 “THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”

cont'd....

Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 10:01:07 GMT -6 by rt

rt
Berean

Posts: 537

The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 9:58:56 GMT -6 watchmanjim, whatif, and 1 more like this

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Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 9:58:56 GMT -6

cont'd...

With the “coming in” of the fullness of the gentiles, God’s attention will now be turned to re-grafting the nation of Israel into their own tree.

Zechariah 12:10
10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

The angel, who spoke previously to John then tells him to take the little book and eat it, the little book or scroll contains God’s prophetic words. We are not informed as to the content of the little scroll, perhaps they are words that will be known only to those remnant Jews. Or it may be the rest of the revelation that John goes on to reveal. There are similar instances regarding the eating of God’s words recorded in the following passages:

Jeremiah 15:16
16 Your words were found and I ate them,
And Your words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart;
For I have been called by Your name,
O LORD God of hosts.

Ezekiel 2:8
8 “Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you.”

Ezekiel 3:1-4
1 Then He said to me, “Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.”
2 So I opened my mouth, and He fed me this scroll.
3 He said to me, “Son of man, feed your stomach and fill your body with this scroll which I am giving you.” Then I ate it, and it was sweet as honey in my mouth.
4 Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them.

There you have it...

Last Edit: Sept 14, 2017 10:00:16 GMT -6 by rt

rt
Berean

Posts: 537

The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 10:10:23 GMT -6 watchmanjim, whatif, and 2 more like this

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Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 10:10:23 GMT -6

Just a note... the fullness of the gentiles, should not be confused with the "times" of the gentiles.
The "fullness" speaks to the salvation of gentiles and refers to the righteous, while the "times" of the gentiles refers to the nations that will rule on earth, and generally speaks concerning the wicked as in this passage here:

Luke 21:23–24
23 “Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

There are two distinct fulfillments for these different events.

mike Lamplighter In essentials unity, in non-essentials diversity, in all things charity. Posts: 3,643	The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 10:30:49 GMT -6 watchmanjim, whatif, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mike on Sept 14, 2017 10:30:49 GMT -6 Good stuff but you were supposed to tell us what the seven thunders said
	John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

rt Berean Posts: 537	The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 10:34:52 GMT -6 watchmanjim, whatif, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by rt on Sept 14, 2017 10:34:52 GMT -6 Sept 14, 2017 10:30:49 GMT -6 mike said: Good stuff but you were supposed to tell us what the seven thunders said Ha ha!!!! Sorry can't do!

watchmanjim
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Being more than a conqueror through Him who loved us.

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The seven thunders Sept 14, 2017 22:24:02 GMT -6 whatif and MissusMack08 like this

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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 14, 2017 22:24:02 GMT -6

Good, I'm glad to see you have continued expounding the study of Revelation, rt!

Can you clarify your understanding of the timeline for the passage you outlined above? In comparison to the seven seals, seven trumpets, and/or the rapture, signing of the covenant, abomination of desoltion, etc.?

I John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

rt
Berean

Posts: 537

The seven thunders Sept 15, 2017 7:13:58 GMT -6 watchmanjim, whatif, and 1 more like this

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Post by rt on Sept 15, 2017 7:13:58 GMT -6

Sept 14, 2017 22:24:02 GMT -6 watchmanjim said:

Scripture tells us that the seven thunders utter their voices just before the 7th trumpet sounds,

Revelation 10:7 (NASB95)

7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

so the timeline would be as such (IMO):

seals 1-4 (already opened)
seals 5 & 6- imminent (resurrection/rapture)
seal 7 (about the first half of the 70th week)
Trumpets 1-6
Seven thunders
Trumpet 7
Bowls 1-7
Return of Christ

The fullness of the gentiles then, IMO, will be completed between the 6th and 7th trumpets. After this no more gentiles will be saved (during the 70th week), these go on to become the tribulation saints. And God's attention is now turned toward the restoration of Israel.

It is interesting that John is told the following after he "eats" the little book:

Revelation 10:11 (NASB95)
11 And they said to me, “You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”

The book he ate was sweet in his mouth but bitter in his stomach. This is a clue as to what kind of prophecy this is.

What John experienced was not unlike what the prophet Ezekiel experienced:

Ezekiel 3:1–3 (NASB95)
1 Then He said to me, “Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.”
2 So I opened my mouth, and He fed me this scroll.
3 He said to me, “Son of man, feed your stomach and fill your body with this scroll which I am giving you.” Then I ate it, and it was sweet as honey in my mouth.

What was written on the scroll Ezekiel was told to eat?:

Ezekiel 2:7–10 (NASB95)
7 “But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious.
8 “Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you.”
9 Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it.
10 When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe.

Here again we see a 2 sided scroll full of lamentations, mourning and woe. (Perhaps the same scroll John is witness to)

Ezekiel was experiencing the throne of God vision, he was lifted up by the Spirit and taken away (Ezekiel 3: 14) to the exiles at Tel-abib. and he says this:

Ezekiel 3:14 (NASB95)
14 So the Spirit lifted me up and took me away; and I went embittered in the rage of my spirit, and the hand of the LORD was strong on me.

So the scroll he ate was sweet like honey in his mouth but left him embittered. Not unlike John.

So Ezekiel was sent to speak to the nation of Israel to speak to them about the consequences of their rebellion and to witness to them about their future. He was commissioned to warn them.

I cannot be dogmatic, but it seems that John's scroll is written to the rest of the gentiles, those not part of the fullness, those who do not come to Christ, as a warning to what is coming upon them; God's wrath, which he then goes on to speak of and is why it left his stomach bitter:

Revelation 10:11 (NASB95)
11 And they said to me, “You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”

We don't know exactly what the seven thunders say, because John is told to seal it up, to not write it down. I think that the "angel" may actually be Christ Himself, though I cannot be certain of that. But I believe what he says has to do with those who will come to faith in Christ during the 70th week. Perhaps this will be revealed to them during that time somehow.

Last Edit: Sept 15, 2017 7:23:32 GMT -6 by rt

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