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Post by watchman35 on Aug 29, 2017 19:43:58 GMT -6
I was walking early this morning listening to a few chapters from the Book of Revelation on an audio Bible from Bible Gateway (love that resource--very thankful for it and my cell phone that allows me to walk and listen to it). I was listening to chapters 19-22 in the Book of Revelation. As Max McClean, a British chap I believe  , got to 22:18-19, I was struck with a sobering awareness of the weight of what was being said: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man SHALL TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (emphasis mine). Wow!! God's not playing here!!! Now I am NOT saying that anyone who does not embrace the Revelation 12 sign is going to have their name removed from the Book of Life. Thank God for that. However, I am saying it seems to me to be a very undesirable and precarious position to be in to find oneself arguing vehemently against something that appears, upon a simple face value evaluation, to at the very least have a serious possibility of being part of the words of the Book of Revelation. Even if you have serious doubts and questions about the Revelation 12 sign's validity and significance, I would think wisdom and the fear of God based on Revelation 22:19 would be enough to cause you to be honest with God and silent regarding any accusations of falsehood. Is denying the sign of Revelation 12 potentially the equivalent of taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy? I do not feel like I can give any kind of definitive answer to that question myself, but I personally would want no part of being in that position. If a person can muster nothing more than this, I would think at the very least they would want to follow the principle set forth by Gamaliel, the Pharisee no less, as stated in Acts 5:38-39: 38 "And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.” |
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Post by mike on Aug 29, 2017 20:12:36 GMT -6
I was walking early this morning listening to a few chapters from the Book of Revelation on an audio Bible from Bible Gateway (love that resource--very thankful for it and my cell phone that allows me to walk and listen to it). I was listening to chapters 19-22 in the Book of Revelation. As Max McClean, a British chap I believe , got to 22:18-19, I was struck with a sobering awareness of the weight of what was being said: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man SHALL TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (emphasis mine). Wow!! God's not playing here!!! Now I am NOT saying that anyone who does not embrace the Revelation 12 sign is going to have their name removed from the Book of Life. Thank God for that. However, I am saying it seems to me to be a very undesirable and precarious position to be in to find oneself arguing vehemently against something that appears, upon a simple face value evaluation, to at the very least have a serious possibility of being part of the words of the Book of Revelation. Even if you have serious doubts and questions about the Revelation 12 sign's validity and significance, I would think wisdom and the fear of God based on Revelation 22:19 would be enough to cause you to be honest with God and silent regarding any accusations of falsehood. Is denying the sign of Revelation 12 potentially the equivalent of taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy? I do not feel like I can give any kind of definitive answer to that question myself, but I personally would want no part of being in that position. If a person can muster nothing more than this, I would think at the very least they would want to follow the principle set forth by Gamaliel, the Pharisee no less, as stated in Acts 5:38-39: 38 "And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.” I can see that point of view. I was talking to a (Christian) friend tonight who I've shared the basics with before, but there's not one indication hes considered it again. Not that he's arguing against it, but seems so caught up with life, hasn't given it the proper merit it deserves. But a thought came to mind similar to what you posted so I had to respond. I equate this friend to the view of "don't agree with the sign" cuz if he had, he'd be as consumed by it as I am. With that I ask from the other perspective: "aren't we 'adding to the book' by vehemently arguing for it"? I'm not saying either is the case but if you were one of those who believe this sign has happened 80 (something) times already, and that others were in fact "date setting" what would you say/how would you read that verse? Just so I'm clear...I believe the sign is a fulfillment of Rev 12:1-2, with perhaps (hopefully) 3,4,5 following closely behind it. It's just that I know Christians (you likely do too) who haven't investigated as in depth or may even be scared of what the possibility is that is coming. It could be like telling someone they are going to die on a certain date or maybe better put the fear of the 'unknown' so they ignore it. Common ground comes to mind: Christ crucified, died, buried, rose from the dead! EDIT - ^^^ not an accusation against you or anyone else, just thinking out loud. I want others to be as fired up as we are. OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH! always sounds better in the KJV |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 29, 2017 20:22:14 GMT -6
Salvation is by grace (unmerited favor) through faith alone in Christ alone. It is not talking about those who don't believe the rev. 12. sign; it's talking about people who try to, literally, eliminate parts of the book of Revelation.
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 29, 2017 22:12:37 GMT -6
Salvation is by grace (unmerited favor) through faith alone in Christ alone. It is not talking about those who don't believe the rev. 12. sign; it's talking about people who try to, literally, eliminate parts of the book of Revelation. Yea, I'm with socalexile here. The alignment is just that, an alignment. We don't know for certain that what we see is EXACTLY what John saw and wrote about. We weren't there to see it with him on the island of Patmos at around 90AD. But the fact that the alignment lands at the trailing edge of the Feast of Trumpets gives it much credit which we shouldn't ignore... I personally don't care if rich pastors ignore the alignment. People are smart enough to make the connection themselves. |
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Post by kjs on Aug 30, 2017 7:17:00 GMT -6
If I understand those two passages correctly -- it is talking about adding words to the revelation or removing words from the revelation. So Revelation 12:2 reads "She was pregnant and was crying out from her labor pains, the agony of giving birth."and someone took that verse and added "She was pregnant and was crying out from her labor pains, the agony of giving birth and screamed for a cup of water." That would be adding to the text..... Revelation 12:3-5 reads this way.... "3 Then another sign appeared in the sky: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept away one-third of the stars in the sky and knocked them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth so that it could devour her child when it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a boy, who is to rule all the nations with an iron scepter. But her child was snatched away and taken to God and to his throne."And I came along and said -- research shows verse 3 and 4 were added by a monk in the 8th century and the original text only contained this after verse 2 5 She gave birth to a son, a boy, who is to rule all the nations with an iron scepter. But her child was snatched away and taken to God and to his throne.The example above would be removing text from the revelation. Agreeing with an interpretation of the text (or disagreeing with interpretation) is NOT adding or subtracting |
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 30, 2017 11:00:10 GMT -6
It is pretty sobering. IMHO, it's probably a condemnation on the gnostics, who at that time (and now) loved to take copies of Holy scripture and cut, paste, and add their own demented doctrines with the purpose of obfuscating the Holy Writ or creating their own religion. Jesus was saying something along the lines of, don't you DARE screw with my words— my end-times church will need to know what I've told them. Ok, He probably wouldnt use the word, "screw..."
But I also think it literally means adding or subtracting words, not believing or disregarding certain interpretations. Like, is the flood the dragon spews out of his mouth water or an army? Does it matter, really, right now which it is? The people living and watching at the time it happens will recognize it and understand Jesus' words. But people who are literally changing what Revelation says are doing so for selfish (and demonically inspired) reasons. (What do you guys think in regards to translation bias? It probably depends on the intent of the heart making the translation, imo.)
But the church would've been safe-guarded from these false doctrines (and from a general ignorance of the book of Revelation) if we had heeded over the 2000 years Jesus' words in Rev 1:3: "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near." Churches for the most part don't read from it, don't teach from it, and in a lot of cases actually discourage the laity from reading it themselves. Bad bad bad. And this is the reason most people are not watching and not recognizing God's signs. Most people have been told that they can't understand the book of Revelation. So now that there is actually something that we can point to and say it looks exactly like something described in the book, they don't see it because they believe we can't know.
I think even if God put the sign up there with flashing neon lights, something totally supernatural, people still wouldn't believe. They'd believe it was faked somehow—Some sort of illusion or "natural" phenomena (just like the actual alignment), but not a sign from God. I also think the inundation of information, fake news, disinformation, and sensationalism is directly from Satan to cause this apathetic response. Nobody knows what to believe and when signs are everywhere, it becomes "too good to be true."
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, got to 22:18-19, I was struck with a sobering awareness of the weight of what was being said:
