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Post by watchman35 on Aug 29, 2017 17:59:57 GMT -6
I have been thinking about and trying to get a sense of the anticipated timing of the Feast of Trumpets coming up in September of 2017. The "new moon", if defined as the moon when it is in conjunction with the sun such that no light is visible, is supposed to happen on Wednesday, September 20th. So on the night of the 20th, when the 21st begins from a Hebrew perspective, there should be no chance to visibly perceive the first crescent. One night later would be Thursday night, September 21, which would be the start of the 22nd from a Hebrew perspective. There is a chance this could be the night, although it seems like it may be more likely that the first crescent is seen on Friday night 9/22 (the start of 9/23 from a Hebrew perspective), which would put the Feast of Trumpets right on the same day as the great sign of Revelation 12!!!
I still have not been able to find any sort of definitive explanation on what time of day the Tekia Hagadol (the 100th and last trump of Yom Teruah) is traditionally actually blown. For it to line up with the twinkling of an eye idiom as some have spoken of, it would need to be at twilight just as the day ends. However, most of the feedback I have seen so far seems to indicate the trumpets are blown in the daytime. And some say that when the Feast of Trumpets lands on a Sabbath, like it would this year for it to be on 9/23, they don't blow the trumpets at all?!? This has me very perplexed. Not at all sure how this comports with the implications of Scottie Clark's latest video in terms of the possibility of pinning down the potential of a very precise moment (moment, hour, day, month, year) that might be the rapture. Depending on whose definition of twilight you use (astronomical, nautical, or civil), the sun is supposed to go down in Jerusalem on 9/23 between 6:58PM and 7:55PM. I must confess I am more than a bit perplexed based on my inability to confirm that the last trump gets blown at twilight, not to mention the apparent Sabbath contradiction. Thoughts anyone?
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Post by whatif on Aug 29, 2017 18:16:57 GMT -6
Great questions, watchman35! I'll look forward to reading any answers posted here!
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 29, 2017 18:36:40 GMT -6
So I don't have any new information other than on the chabad website that said the shofar could be blown up until sunset but that its traditionally done in the morning.
However, I was thinking about it and reminded that I had read somewhere an exposition on the book of Revelation showing the parallels of what is happening in Heaven with the final fall feasts. For example, when the Lord goes into the temple and no one is allowed to enter, that is the Feast of Atonement. I'll try to find that article so I can cite it better and not butcher it from my memory. But anyway, the purpose of thinking this was that: God celebrates the feasts in heaven during the book of Revelation. What is happening in heaven is happening on the earth during the tribulation period. So... the reference Paul makes of the Last Trump at the Twinkling of an Eye may be what is happening in heaven not on earth. We know he was caught up into heaven when he received the revelation about the rapture. I know this isn't necessarily helpful in determining what exact time the Last Trump is blown from an earthly perspective, but if Jerusalem is where God centers the earth's days and nights, I would think that the Last Trump will sound at the twinkling of an eye. If twinkling of an eye means that moment the sun itself is no longer visible on the horizon (the sun body, not the light from it), then I would think that's when it would be.
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bc23
New Member
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Post by bc23 on Aug 29, 2017 18:41:42 GMT -6
I've followed Mark Biltz at El Shaddai for several years now and they blow the shofars on Yom Teruah during their normal daytime service. Have not heard about trumpets not being blown when it falls on the Sabbath. I think this is one of those areas that actually confirms scripture because of all the meaning packed into this from Lev. 23. I believe it will be based on Jerusalem time so as the sun is setting there on that Saturday there will be numerous synagogues here in the midst of conducting their services. Some other reasons to like that Saturday are 726 minutes of daylight (Harpazo in Strongs) in Jerusalem and that day is also Fall equinox where the sun rises 90 degrees due East and sets 270 degrees due west. Pure conjecture when you get to this level of detail but encouraging to ponder. Also believe that while God is never late He is seldom early so almost expect it to be at the last possible moment. Here's a link to a study on the significance of Feast of Trumpets you may find of value and solar data from Jerusalem next month. www.betemunah.org/teruah.html www.timeanddate.com/sun/israel/jerusalem?month=9&year=2017 |
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Post by katmak on Aug 29, 2017 20:00:58 GMT -6
Found this on Wiki:
"Although the Jewish calendar is based on the lunar cycle, so that the first day of each month originally began with the first sighting of a new moon, since the fourth century it has been arranged so that Rosh Hashanah never falls on a Sunday, Wednesday, or Friday.[18][18]
The Torah defines Rosh Hashanah as a one-day celebration, and since days in the Hebrew calendar begin at sundown, the beginning of Rosh Hashanah is at sundown at the end of 29 Elul. The rules of the Hebrew calendar are designed such that the first day of Rosh Hashanah will never occur on the first, fourth, or sixth day of the Jewish week[19] (i.e., Sunday, Wednesday, or Friday). Since the time of the destruction of the Second Temple of Jerusalem in 70 CE and the time of Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai, normative Jewish law appears to be that Rosh Hashanah is to be celebrated for two days, because of the difficulty of determining the date of the new moon.[2] Nonetheless, there is some evidence that Rosh Hashanah was celebrated on a single day in Israel as late as the thirteenth century CE.[20] Orthodox and Conservative Judaism now generally observe Rosh Hashanah for the first two days of Tishrei, even in Israel where all other Jewish holidays dated from the new moon last only one day. The two days of Rosh Hashanah are said to constitute "Yoma Arichtah" (Aramaic: "one long day"). In Reform Judaism, some communities observe only the first day of Rosh Hashanah, while others observe two days. Karaite Jews, who do not recognize Rabbinic Jewish oral law and rely on their own understanding of the Torah, observe only one day on the first of Tishrei, since the second day is not mentioned in the Written Torah."
How would a restriction of the Feast of Trumpets be altered to fill the requirements of when the actual day would be designated, if indeed NOT on a Sunday, Wednesday or a Friday (Shabbat)?
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Post by socalexile on Aug 29, 2017 20:28:28 GMT -6
I'm still of the opinion that the "last trump" may be a reference to the last shofar blown in the fall feasts, which happens in the evening of Yom Kippur, which marks the beginning of the 8th day after the child is born on 23 September.
Remember in Leviticus 12, a male child is unclean until circumcision is performed on the 8th day. Circumcision is a picture of the cutting away of sin from Adam, as realized in Christ.
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Post by peeputt on Aug 30, 2017 7:12:10 GMT -6
I'm still of the opinion that the "last trump" may be a reference to the last shofar blown in the fall feasts, which happens in the evening of Yom Kippur, which marks the beginning of the 8th day after the child is born on 23 September. Remember in Leviticus 12, a male child is unclean until circumcision is performed on the 8th day. Circumcision is a picture of the cutting away of sin from Adam, as realized in Christ. If we (the male child) are caught up to heaven at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation, then we will come back to earth with Jesus on the beginning of the 8th day (of years). Just something to ponder  |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 30, 2017 12:02:17 GMT -6
Actually, peeputt, we will come back at the beginning of the 7th day of years. 6 days (6,000 years) are drawing to a close, and so when Jesus comes back to establish His kingdom (with us), that will begin the 7th 1,000 years, or 7th day of years.  |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 30, 2017 12:09:25 GMT -6
I'm still of the opinion that the "last trump" may be a reference to the last shofar blown in the fall feasts, which happens in the evening of Yom Kippur, which marks the beginning of the 8th day after the child is born on 23 September. Remember in Leviticus 12, a male child is unclean until circumcision is performed on the 8th day. Circumcision is a picture of the cutting away of sin from Adam, as realized in Christ. If we (the male child) are caught up to heaven at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation, then we will come back to earth with Jesus on the beginning of the 8th day (of years). Just something to ponder Well, the beginning of the 7th day/millennia or year 6000 since creation (give or take). The new heavens & earth will be on the beginning of the 8th day/millennia since creation. |
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Post by peeputt on Aug 30, 2017 13:05:00 GMT -6
Actually, peeputt, we will come back at the beginning of the 7th day of years. 6 days (6,000 years) are drawing to a close, and so when Jesus comes back to establish His kingdom (with us), that will begin the 7th 1,000 years, or 7th day of years. Oh poop! Yes, you are right. I am not the best at math...LOL #facepalm  |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 30, 2017 13:29:48 GMT -6
No problem, peeputt, it gets a little tricky sometimes. |
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Post by Natalie on Sept 2, 2017 17:11:35 GMT -6
I found a couple of interesting things that I thought I'd add to this thread. Here is a link to "Determining the Hebrew Month" from TorahCalendar.com It shows a diagram of the New Moon on Sept 21st. torahcalendar.com/MOON.asp?JDN=2458018&TDAY=1 Adam at Parable of the Vineyard has a video talking about the New Moon. Most of our calendars call the blacked out moon the New Moon, when it is actually the small sliver that is the New Moon. |
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Post by whatif on Sept 2, 2017 17:42:08 GMT -6
Fascinating information, Natalie! Thank you for posting it!
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Post by watchman35 on Sept 2, 2017 19:32:19 GMT -6
I found a couple of interesting things that I thought I'd add to this thread. Here is a link to "Determining the Hebrew Month" from TorahCalendar.com It shows a diagram of the New Moon on Sept 21st. torahcalendar.com/MOON.asp?JDN=2458018&TDAY=1 Adam at Parable of the Vineyard has a video talking about the New Moon. Most of our calendars call the blacked out moon the New Moon, when it is actually the small sliver that is the New Moon. I listened to Adam's video yesterday. Very helpful, although I am still struggling to find an authoritative, definitive explanation of the timing of the last trump (Tekia Hagadol). |
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Post by Natalie on Sept 2, 2017 19:57:35 GMT -6
I haven't found an answer for that either.
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