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Post by biblefaq247 on Aug 16, 2017 16:41:07 GMT -6
The Tribulation period has nothing to do with the Church Age Saints. The "Time of the Gentiles" will soon be fulfilled at the rapture of the Church and the Age of Grace will be over. The seven (7) year tribulation period, also referred to as the Time of Jacob's Troubles, will be centered on the Nation of Israel and the Jews.
The Bible clearly teaches that the Church Age saints will be raptured BEFORE the 7 Year Tribulation period. Matthew Chapter 24 must be rightly divided. Here, the Lord Jesus Christ is speaking to Jews about future events that will involve the Nation of Israel. Importantly, the tribulation period (Daniel’s 70th Week), is also referred to as the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble,” since it deals with the Nation of Israel and the Jews. It is important to distinguish between the “RAPTURE” and the “SECOND COMING.”
In the Rapture, Our Lord Jesus Christ will come before the tribulation to receive His Bride. The “blood washed” saints will receive their “glorified bodies,” be “married” to the bridegroom and appear before the “Bema Judgment Seat” to receive our “rewards.” The rapture is primarily described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 and John 14:2-3. On the other hand, in the event known as the “Second Coming,” Jesus will return during the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation period. The Church will accompany Him in their new glorified bodies. Christ will destroy the enemies and nations that oppose Israel and the Gospel. Jesus Christ will reign for 1000 years in His Millennial Kingdom.
At the rapture, the “times of the Gentiles” will be fulfilled, God’s focus will return to the Nation of Israel. Revelation Chapter 4:1-5 reveals powerful clues that indicate a pre-Tribulation rapture or catching away of the Church. It is worthy to note that the word “church” appears nineteen times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but, significantly, the word is not used again until chapter 19. In other words, in the entire lengthy description of the Tribulation in Revelation, the word church is noticeably absent. In fact, the Bible never uses the word "church" in a passage relating to the Tribulation. Perhaps, the reason is that Revelation Chapter 4 reveals the end of the Church age and the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation period or the 70th week of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9: 24-27).
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Post by whatif on Aug 17, 2017 14:22:05 GMT -6
It is worthy to note that the word “church” appears nineteen times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but, significantly, the word is not used again until chapter 19. In other words, in the entire lengthy description of the Tribulation in Revelation, the word church is noticeably absent. In fact, the Bible never uses the word "church" in a passage relating to the Tribulation. Perhaps, the reason is that Revelation Chapter 4 reveals the end of the Church age and the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation period or the 70th week of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9: 24-27). Fascinating, biblefaq247! Thank you for sharing that information! |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Aug 18, 2017 7:27:37 GMT -6
Clear, precise, summary!
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Post by mike on Aug 18, 2017 8:23:00 GMT -6
The Tribulation period has nothing to do with the Church Age Saints. The "Time of the Gentiles" will soon be fulfilled at the rapture of the Church and the Age of Grace will be over. The seven (7) year tribulation period, also referred to as the Time of Jacob's Troubles, will be centered on the Nation of Israel and the Jews. The Bible clearly teaches that the Church Age saints will be raptured BEFORE the 7 Year Tribulation period. Matthew Chapter 24 must be rightly divided. Here, the Lord Jesus Christ is speaking to Jews about future events that will involve the Nation of Israel. Importantly, the tribulation period (Daniel’s 70th Week), is also referred to as the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble,” since it deals with the Nation of Israel and the Jews. It is important to distinguish between the “RAPTURE” and the “SECOND COMING.” In the Rapture, Our Lord Jesus Christ will come before the tribulation to receive His Bride. The “blood washed” saints will receive their “glorified bodies,” be “married” to the bridegroom and appear before the “Bema Judgment Seat” to receive our “rewards.” The rapture is primarily described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 and John 14:2-3. On the other hand, in the event known as the “Second Coming,” Jesus will return during the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation period. The Church will accompany Him in their new glorified bodies. Christ will destroy the enemies and nations that oppose Israel and the Gospel. Jesus Christ will reign for 1000 years in His Millennial Kingdom. At the rapture, the “times of the Gentiles” will be fulfilled, God’s focus will return to the Nation of Israel. Revelation Chapter 4:1-5 reveals powerful clues that indicate a pre-Tribulation rapture or catching away of the Church. It is worthy to note that the word “church” appears nineteen times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but, significantly, the word is not used again until chapter 19. In other words, in the entire lengthy description of the Tribulation in Revelation, the word church is noticeably absent. In fact, the Bible never uses the word "church" in a passage relating to the Tribulation. Perhaps, the reason is that Revelation Chapter 4 reveals the end of the Church age and the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation period or the 70th week of Daniel (Daniel Chapter 9: 24-27). I do agree with the Pre-Trib view and agree with most of what you've said, however I do want to point out and disagree with the section I've change to blue. Although the statement is correct the assessment/assumption is not. If I may assume the entirety of this website is centered around Rev12 (mostly 1&2) where all indications seemingly point to the child in verse 2 being the church. So while you are correct saying the word church is not present from 4-19, it is not entirely accurate to assume the wntirety of the book was written chronologically. The chiastic (sp?) theme was discussed in another thread. |
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Post by danielle on Aug 18, 2017 14:30:00 GMT -6
It is my understanding that the last trumpet can not sound off and happen until the prior trumpets sound off. The trumpets are key: in understanding the order of events. We are only at the First. The Lord always give messages to His people as to what next, through signs, whether in the heavens or on the earth. What sign is there of the 1st Trumpet? Keep in mind a trumpet heralds in something. 1st trumpet rev.8:6-7 Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them. The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood., and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. How do we Know this trumpet has sounded? I believe Trumps election here in America, The superpower above other superpowers and the American Eclipse, followed by the Rev. 12 sign. Which is significant to the Elect and Israel. The Rapture happens when the last trumpet sounds off. To whomever: what say you?
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Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2017 14:47:10 GMT -6
Hmm. I have a different take on that. I don't see any connection between the "last trump" that Paul describes and the seventh trumpet in Revelation. The only connection I can see is that it is the last trumpet of seven. On the other hand, there are many trumpets mentioned in Scripture. Paul calls the last trump the "trump of God" whereas the seven trumpets in Revelation are blown by angels. There are many similarities and patterns in Scripture, but that doesn't mean they are all the same thing. For example, Joshua was a "type" of Christ, but that doesn't mean he is Christ. Same with the trumpets. Trumpets are blown on various festivals and new moons. A trumpet was blown on Mt. Sinai. Trumpets were blown at Jericho. Trumpets were blown in various battles. This is a pretty decent article that explains why the seventh trumpet in Revelation and the "last trump" are not the same: www.gotquestions.org/last-trumpet.htmlHope that makes sense. |
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Post by delo63 on Aug 18, 2017 14:56:58 GMT -6
Hello Danielle,
In order for us to be in the first trumpet, we would have already experienced the wrath of the lamb. Which is the 6th seal. I can safely say that has not happened yet.
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Post by disciple4life on Aug 31, 2017 5:56:46 GMT -6
It is my understanding that the last trumpet can not sound off and happen until the prior trumpets sound off. The trumpets are key: in understanding the order of events. We are only at the First. The Lord always give messages to His people as to what next, through signs, whether in the heavens or on the earth. What sign is there of the 1st Trumpet? Keep in mind a trumpet heralds in something. 1st trumpet rev.8:6-7 Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them. The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood., and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. How do we Know this trumpet has sounded? I believe Trumps election here in America, The superpower above other superpowers and the American Eclipse, followed by the Rev. 12 sign. Which is significant to the Elect and Israel. The Rapture happens when the last trumpet sounds off. To whomever: what say you? Hmm, I respectfully disagree, Danielle, and here's why. ;-) - The two passages are very very different and it's very clear how and why. The passage you mention in Revel is 7 trumpets blown by 7 different angels and it's judgement. Horrible things -1/3 of all the sea creatures die, 1/3 of all the grass and trees are burned up, 1/3 of all people are killed. The passage explicitly states these are blown by seven different angels. - Secondly, the passage in 1 Thes. that Paul talks about is the "Last Trumpet" a clear and unmistakable reference to Rapture, Harpazo, we are caught up to meet Christ in the air, and God blows this trumpet. In Feast of Trumpets, there are 99 blasts of the shofar, series of short and long blasts. The 100th trumpet is "the Last Trumpet" and there is even a special name for this last blast, in Hebrew. This refers only to the Feast of Trumpets no other festival, and no other holy day. - Thirdly, Paul's letter to the Corinthians [ 1 Cor 15:51-52] was approx. 40 years before Revelation was written by John. Paul could not be referring to something that had not yet been revealed.
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 31, 2017 11:08:56 GMT -6
I basically agree with you, D4L, but I disagree with the idea that Paul could refer to something that had not yet been revealed. I believe it is entirely possible that he could, because of the work of the Holy Spirit.
WOULD the Holy Spirit choose to refer to something that had not been written yet? I don't know if He would, but I would not rule it out. I believe very firmly that God intended for the entire body of Scripture to be understood together, and this is an ageless concept that was only temporarily complicated by the sequence of the various books being written.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 12:09:22 GMT -6
Also, we need to keep in mind that much was said in person between Paul and the church bodies. So many times he refers, in his letters, to something the audience is already familiar with, but we may not be, accept through alternative revelation.
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