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Post by kjs on Aug 10, 2017 15:05:15 GMT -6
Before people start raking me over the coals here, This is a bit of tongue in cheek. Of Course, I believe God knows the beginning from the end – therefore He had every detail planned well in advance. My point with this thread is to show – How “it” played out in history – kind of makes it appear that God was forced to bring about a “Plan B” in order to make His overall plan work out correctly.
God chose Abraham to be the Father of His chosen Nation. Likewise, God chose Isaac to be the chosen line. God chose Jacob to be the chosen line, even though Esau was first-born. The descendants from Jacob became known as the tribe of Israel.
This is the group of people God, chose above all others – as His People. Based on the Abrahamic Covenant – the gentile nations (anyone outside of the tribe of Israel) would ONLY be blessed through Abrahams descendants.
The Old Testament is the “story” of how Abrahams descendants became a great nation. It contains stories of their successes as well as stories of the failures. Maybe, that should be changed to – it contains stories of their failures, with a few success stories thrown in.
The point being made is that God has chosen to “deal” with the entire world (other nations) ONLY through His chosen People (Tribe of Israel). Israel while being PROUD of their chosen status; has continued to fall short of God’s standards – kind of think of it as always being the worst case example.
There are several Covenants and Promises MADE by God – specifically to Israel – His chosen People. Will not cover them within this essay, not because they are not important – but because every single one of them has been broken by Israel. The question then becomes will God continue to honor covenants with the group who broke their side? Or put another way, Is Israel still God’s chosen Nation?
One of the biggest promises of God to the nation of Israel; was that a Messiah (an anointed one) would come from the Line of David – who would rule the world – forever and ever. This forever King, would establish God’s Kingdom (or the Kingdom of God) with Israel being the primary nation.
When Jesus Christ arrived on this planet; He was willing and able to start the Kingdom of God at that time; however, God required that the nation of Israel needed to embrace Jesus as the Messiah. As we all know – with the 20/20 vision of hindsight – Israel did NOT accept Jesus as the Messiah – they in fact rejected Him and ended up Killing Him.
Luckily for us, Jesus did not remain dead. He was raised to life. However, Israel as a whole continued to reject Jesus Christ as being the Messiah.
It was at this point God started to enact “Plan B” – or looked at one way – God’s After-thought. God has decided to make a people – NOT of His chosen Nation – His people. Why are these new people going to become the “New Chosen Nation”? Are they going to REPLACE the nation of Israel?
NO, the sole purpose of these new people is to provoke Israel to jealousy. In the book of Romans; the apostle Paul outlines the entire NEW PLAN (please note it is a new plan – not a replacement plan).
Please note these new people – depicted as “wild Vines” – are graphed into the TRUE VINE. They become the adopted Sons and Daughters into God’s family. BUT please note – THEY are not replacing the original family (the nation of Israel) – they are simply coming in the Back-door so to speak.
Paul tells us clearly – this NEW PLAN – is only temporary. At a time known as the “FULNESS of the Gentiles” – the temporary blinders that have been placed upon Israel will be lifted. At that the Nation of Israel will return to God and Jesus Christ.
How do we know Paul – Got it right?
Because in Micah 5:3 – the prophet says “Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son…”
NOTICE – right now Israel has been Abandoned because of their UNBELIEF…..
Abandoned – NOT Replaced……….
GOD brought in a Plan B – to bring into fruition both Plan A and Plan B…….
Because Israel rejected the original Plan A ………
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 10, 2017 23:21:08 GMT -6
Yes, good post. And the "Behold, it was Leah!" thread is a good one to look at, too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 10:21:51 GMT -6
Abandoned – NOT Replaced……….GOD brought in a Plan B – to bring into fruition both Plan A and Plan B……. Because Israel rejected the original Plan A ……… It leads me to even more and more worship, to see that god's "Plan B" is not what we humans call "Plan B". It's simply a perfection in itself. We are unable to grasp this beauty of salvation (at least for now).... |
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Post by mike on Aug 11, 2017 10:42:24 GMT -6
Has anyone ever tossed around the thought of "why'd God choose the Jews"? I realize this cannot be adequately explained, but I think about it from time to time. For example had he chosen the Edomites (came from Esau right?) I'd be asking the same question. But when I read through the OT I think about it when I read of their complaining, doubt, idol worship and other sins...But I realize that any other people would likely have yielded the same result. I know that if I were there following Moses or lived in the days of Noah, I might not have made it (saved). Just the way I ponder things sometimes. I know I was born in this age and not that one for good reason  |
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Post by kjs on Aug 11, 2017 11:32:54 GMT -6
Has anyone ever tossed around the thought of "why'd God choose the Jews"? I realize this cannot be adequately explained, but I think about it from time to time. For example had he chosen the Edomites (came from Esau right?) I'd be asking the same question. But when I read through the OT I think about it when I read of their complaining, doubt, idol worship and other sins...But I realize that any other people would likely have yielded the same result. I know that if I were there following Moses or lived in the days of Noah, I might not have made it (saved). Just the way I ponder things sometimes. I know I was born in this age and not that one for good reason Not sure we will really know this side of heaven .... But I kind of agree with your thought -- It did not really matter which group was chosen -- they would have "screwed up" just as much (if not more) then Israel. This thread is mainly to reemphasize that Israel is NOT FORGOTTEN -- simply in a "time-out" (so to speak). Many of those who hold views other than Pre-Trib. -- Fail to account for Daniel's 70th week (also known as Jacobs trouble).... This time period is set aside specifically for Israel. Now God is God -- and He can do anything He wants -- including focusing on Israel and the Body of Christ -- AT THE SAME TIME...... HOWEVER, it appears God has chosen to deal with ONLY one Group at a Time -- therefore the last week (7 years) will be Israels time -- and not the Body of Christ...... THIS is also why Micah 5:3 – the prophet says “Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son…”MEANS so much to me -- because it clearly states WHEN that abandonment will end ....... Problem is there how many daily BIRTHS -- so how do we know which women in Labor......... Then BOOM -- we discover (re-discover) the Heavenly Birth in Rev 12 -- and we suddenly have a very good idea on who that woman is.......... |
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Post by mike on Aug 11, 2017 11:42:11 GMT -6
I totally get your concept. we know there was no plan B, but (for me) from an outside looking in, it would/could appear that way. OR From a perspective of someone who has not understood the Lords ways (yet) it might seem as if God made a mistake choosing the Jews. I know that I have to remind myself at times that the Lord is not caught off guard or surprised by anything that happens. I posted in another thread (u may have even responded) that when Moses came down from the Sinai with the 10 commandments God told him he should start over with Moses. God was not surprised by this treasonous act of idol worship, yet showed Moses how angry He was. Likewise He wasnt caught off guard, when Adam & Eve fell, The flood, etc. etc. etc. but we are left to search and find out what happened that made it seem like God changed His mind or had to alter His plan cuz of us. We know His plan is perfect and following precisely as He designed and sometimes I know I have to step back and look at the big picture.
Funny thing I was literally just on the phone with my mother then came back on here to see that you quoted me. While on the phone she says "Mike listen to this...Micah 5:3" then read the verse and said "Wow there it is confirmation of the sign even more..." God is good
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Post by kjs on Aug 11, 2017 14:57:17 GMT -6
Funny thing I was literally just on the phone with my mother then came back on here to see that you quoted me. While on the phone she says "Mike listen to this...Micah 5:3" then read the verse and said "Wow there it is confirmation of the sign even more..." God is good I'm glad to hear that verse spreading ..... I really think it is the KEY to the Rev 12 sign........... |
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Post by whatif on Aug 13, 2017 19:19:06 GMT -6
Funny thing I was literally just on the phone with my mother then came back on here to see that you quoted me. While on the phone she says "Mike listen to this...Micah 5:3" then read the verse and said "Wow there it is confirmation of the sign even more..." God is good I'm glad to hear that verse spreading ..... I really think it is the KEY to the Rev 12 sign........... I agree, kjs! It seems very much to me to be the key to the Revelation 12 sign! |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 14, 2017 10:47:59 GMT -6
And Micah 5:3 is really involving the return of Israel to the land, I do believe. (About the time of the Great Sign of Rev. 12. So let's be watching that situation, too!)
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Post by kjs on Aug 25, 2017 14:53:09 GMT -6
Micah 5:3 – the prophet says “Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son…”
Deuteronomy 32:21 They have made me jealous with what is no god; they have provoked me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are no people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Romans 11:11 And so I ask, “They have not stumbled so as to fall, have they?” Of course not! On the contrary, because of their stumbling, salvation has come to the gentiles to make the Jews jealous. 12 Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their fall means riches for the gentiles, how much more will their full participation mean!
Romans 11: 25 For I want to let you know about this secret, brothers, so that you will not claim to be wiser than you are: Stubbornness has come to part of Israel until the full number of the gentiles comes to faith.
There is coming a time when God will return His focus on Israel -- I am not foolish enough to say that at that moment in time God will give up entirely on the gentiles -- but one must recognize that is a possibility.
I only entered a few verses, but this concept has shown up in the Bible over and over again. At some moment in time (this year?)....God's focus will return to Israel -- the question then becomes -- what about the church -- the Body of Christ?
Most believe they (he?) will be removed from this earth.... rapture anyone?
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Post by mike on Aug 25, 2017 17:48:49 GMT -6
Micah 5:3 – the prophet says “Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son…”Deuteronomy 32:21 They have made me jealous with what is no god; they have provoked me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are no people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.Romans 11:11 And so I ask, “They have not stumbled so as to fall, have they?” Of course not! On the contrary, because of their stumbling, salvation has come to the gentiles to make the Jews jealous. 12 Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their fall means riches for the gentiles, how much more will their full participation mean!Romans 11: 25 For I want to let you know about this secret, brothers, so that you will not claim to be wiser than you are: Stubbornness has come to part of Israel until the full number of the gentiles comes to faith.
There is coming a time when God will return His focus on Israel -- I am not foolish enough to say that at that moment in time God will give up entirely on the gentiles -- but one must recognize that is a possibility. I only entered a few verses, but this concept has shown up in the Bible over and over again. At some moment in time (this year?)....God's focus will return to Israel -- the question then becomes -- what about the church -- the Body of Christ? Most believe they (he?) will be removed from this earth.... rapture anyone? I like the idea but just suppose He doesn't? Or at least doesn't immediately? |
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Post by jeff1954 on Aug 25, 2017 21:18:59 GMT -6
Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
After Solomon, the Hebrew kingdom divided into the northern 10 tribe kingdom and the southern kingdom of Judah and Benjamin with Levites in both kingdoms. The southern kingdom were made up the people we now know as Jews. All Jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrews are Jews.
Joseph's sons Ephraim and Manasseh were given a blessing by Jacob (Israel) and were part of the northern kingdom that was scattered before Judah and Benjamin in the southern kingdom. They have not returned, as the Jews have, to the land of Israel.
God keeps his promises, so somewhere in this world those promises have been kept to Ephraim and Manasseh. There is controversy surrounding this so I won't get into it and let you draw your own conclusions.
Hosea speaks to both kingdoms. Please read for yourself because I'm going to paraphrase. In the 1st chapter concerning the house of Israel (northern kingdom)a daughter is born named "Loruhamah": for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. Then a son is born named "Loammi": for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Then comes verses 10 & 11-Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel. Please read all of Hosea and then look to Ezekiel 37:16-28.
As for a plan B, there has been one from the beginning. My computer skills are poor so I'll ask you to draw an equilateral triangle and write "God" at the top. Then at the bottom left hand point write "Freewill" and at the right hand point write "Predestination". I believe that we can only describe God as "All Powerful". That any other definition limits Him. I believe that He gives more choice to some than others. For example He, at the Freewill end of the line allowed Thomas to doubt and Adam and Eve access to all of the Garden. He had a backup plan in case they ate of the Tree of Life. At the other end He didn't allow Paul to doubt. He knocked Paul off his donkey, blinded him and then had a stranger tell him his life story. He believed and the scales were lifted from his eyes. Likewise Jonah, he tried to rebel and we know what happened there. We all have more or less choice according to God's will.
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Post by whatif on Aug 25, 2017 21:45:40 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, jeff1954! It's a pleasure to meet you!
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Post by kjs on Aug 26, 2017 0:22:44 GMT -6
Welcome Jeff1954!
There has been speculation for years on whether there are 10 lost tribes. I have done a lot of research on it and by no means call myself an expert.
During my research, I kept running into statements in the new testament that suggest there is Not any Lost tribes. For example Your quote of Mathew shows when he sent out the disciples He expected them to find them and witness for Him. Several of the New Tesament books like James, are written specifically to them (all twelve). Members in two of the supposedly lost tribes are written about in New Testament (one was Ashr) cannot think of the other off hand.
Chuck Mizzler, I man I highly respect - also sides with there being no lost tribes.
As things stand now, I do not believe there are any lost tribes.
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Post by kjs on Aug 26, 2017 0:39:09 GMT -6
Micah 5:3 – the prophet says “Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son…” I like the idea but just suppose He doesn't? Or at least doesn't immediately? I could supply a snarky answer here - but that really would not give you a fair response! As of yet (and have been praying for 100% confirmation almost nightly) - I have heard or seen nothing that suggest the rapture will definitely happen in the next couple of weeks. The guy who runs Heavenly Sign 2017 YouTube site (also same guy that has an actual timeline from rapture through the seven years). Made an interesting comment in one of his recent videos..... Basically, he was addressing emails he has received - many which like your question starts off with "what if...." His response was that - Faith is still required..... Will God and specifically Jesus keep His promise to return? I am sure you are like me --- yes, Jesus will return for His church .... And that could be in another ten, twenty, or even one hundred years..... OR. It could be in the next couple of weeks...... I know Jesus will be returning, I am hoping it is this year. |
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