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Post by matthew2423 on Feb 16, 2020 11:17:05 GMT -6
Hello all!
I haven’t posted on here in a while, but I’d thought I would reply to this. This study definitely helps me picture the New Jerusalem better, and it makes me more excited for this new eternal city. I will have to say though, I don’t agree with the belief that the eternal Hell aka the Lake of Fire is on the New Earth, as Mr. Daily says in this study. Personally, I think that the New Earth beyond the New Jerusalem is where glorified believers will live in homes other than their homes in the New Jerusalem. Isaiah 65:21 says, “People will build houses and live in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.” (HCSB). A lot of Christians today say that this verse describes the Millennium, but I think this describes both the Millennial Kingdom and the New Earth. According to Revelation, the glorified believers will form nations on the New Earth, and there will be literal kings who will rule over these literal nations on the literal New Earth. Revelation 21:24 says, “The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.” According to author Randy Alcorn, this could mean that the nations on the New Earth could give their cultural treasures to King Jesus in tribute to Him, or give cultural treasures to other believers of other nations. Regardless of the meaning, we will be living on a literal New Earth in literal nations.
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Post by venge on Feb 18, 2020 18:55:23 GMT -6
I agree boymaker - it's amazing to think about the New Jerusalem like this. This is one of the first things I read when I joined Unsealed, and I often think about it. Even the name makes me smile😊 However, I still find it very difficult to imagine a world without the ocean/sea. It just doesn't make any sense in my head... I guess it'll make sense when we see it for ourselves. Perhaps there is no more ocean....But, another way to think of it is like this: If the sea is not an ocean and it is actually kingdoms. The bride is new Jerusalem and as a great mountain, it will destroy the image of silver, brass, gold, iron and clay and cover the whole earth. This mountain is God's kingdom on earth. It will be the only everlasting kingdom and that is why there will be no more sea/kingdoms. The easiest example I will give you is in Matthew and Daniel. In Matthew, The sea beings kingdoms of the world where good and bad fish live. In Daniel, Daniel has 4 beasts that come out of the sea. These 4 beast's are also described as kingdoms.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 17:43:35 GMT -6
I was thinking of how, if land was a single mass before the flood, the oceans would have been the end of the world. There would have been no reason to cross them. Perhaps the return to perfection will unite the land masses and make oceans unnecessary?
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Post by matthew2423 on Feb 20, 2020 7:47:47 GMT -6
I was thinking of how, if land was a single mass before the flood, the oceans would have been the end of the world. There would have been no reason to cross them. Perhaps the return to perfection will unite the land masses and make oceans unnecessary? Boymaker and venge, I find it hard to believe that there won’t be literal nations or even a literal ocean on the New Earth. Revelation 21:24 says, “The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.” (HCSB). This verse seems to suggest that there will be literal nations on the New Earth and even literal kings of those nations. On the topic of oceans on the New Earth, author Randy Alcorn writes on his blog, “When we read about no more seas, we think of God’s doing away with the oceans that cover most of his beloved Earth. We think there will be no more surfing, tide pools, snorkeling, and fun on the beach, and there will be no more wonderful sea creatures. From Spurgeon’s viewpoint, and most of us would feel the same way, that sounds like bad news. While Spurgeon’s meditation from Morning and Evening is very brief, in tribute to him I’d like to further develop from Scripture the issue he raised, making a case I think he might have appreciated. When Revelation 21:1 says that “the sea was no more,” we must try to understand sea in exactly the way the writer and his readers of the book of Revelation would have understood it. To the great majority of them, the sea was devoid of the romantic properties many of us associate with it. Rather, the sea consisted of those vast, icy, treacherous, stormy waters that separated families, destroyed ships, and drowned loved ones. It posed a constant threat, with its great creatures that swallowed up seafarers and its salt waters that poisoned people on the open sea who craved freshwater. With that understanding, “no more sea” was a reassuring prospect! But let’s look at a larger picture. Of course, it was God who created the seas (Genesis 1:9-10). Like everything else he made, they were very good (Genesis 1:31). But the Curse had a devastating effect on creation, including the ocean waters. Even if Revelation 21:1 is a literal promise of ‘no more ocean,’ this doesn’t necessarily mean the absence of large bodies of water. Revelation tells us a great river flows right through the capital city (22:1-2). How much more water will there be outside the city? Flowing rivers go somewhere. Some of the world’s lakes are huge and sealike, so theoretically the New Earth could have even larger lakes. Huge lakes could, in effect, be freshwater oceans. Ezekiel 47 speaks of the water flowing from the Temple, which parallels the water flowing from the Messiah’s throne on the New Earth (Revelation 22). Ezekiel says, “I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river” (47:7, NIV). Then he is told, ‘This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live’ (Ezekiel 47:8-9, NIV). Ezekiel 47 goes on to say, ‘Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing’ (verse 12). This promise is applied directly to the New Earth in Revelation 22:2. Since this is clearly a New Earth passage, it appears that the reference to “no more sea” in Revelation 21 may simply mean ‘no more sea as we now know it.’” So, those are my thoughts as well as some thoughts from Scripture and a reputable Christian author. Sorry this is a long post, but I just wanted y’all to see that it is possible that there could be nations and an ocean on the New Earth.
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Post by venge on Feb 20, 2020 8:59:41 GMT -6
matthew2423The only kingdom needed will be God’s kingdom. That’s why in Rev 11 it says the kingdom’s of this world will be Christ and he will reign. I don’t believe it’s suggesting removal of all current nation boundaries. The way I see it is, nations rule their own today under their own rules. Each does what each thinks is right in their own head much like individuals do. Possibly, the removal of kingdoms is that they do what God wants placing Christ as King. This allows nations to exist “under God”, but ruled by his way - not our own way. This would be the removal of kingdoms (plural) allowing 1 kingdom to prosper and insomuch, be a new earth where the things of today no longer exist. Perhaps that clarifies your concern?
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Post by matthew2423 on Feb 20, 2020 15:42:13 GMT -6
matthew2423The only kingdom needed will be God’s kingdom. That’s why in Rev 11 it says the kingdom’s of this world will be Christ and he will reign. I don’t believe it’s suggesting removal of all current nation boundaries. The way I see it is, nations rule their own today under their own rules. Each does what each thinks is right in their own head much like individuals do. Possibly, the removal of kingdoms is that they do what God wants placing Christ as King. This allows nations to exist “under God”, but ruled by his way - not our own way. This would be the removal of kingdoms (plural) allowing 1 kingdom to prosper and insomuch, be a new earth where the things of today no longer exist. Perhaps that clarifies your concern? It kind of does, venge, but I kind of think that kingdoms are the same as nations. I’m guessing that is just a mistake on my part, thinking that kingdoms are the same as nations.
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Post by venge on Feb 21, 2020 5:49:59 GMT -6
Well, I suppose there is some comparisons. Perhaps it’s semantics. Take a look at Daniel 2 referencing the 4th beast of the sea.
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
So God’s kingdom covers all the current kingdoms that make up the statue of gold, silver etc. and breaks them like chaff. We also have other passages in the minor prophets that talk about nations will go up and worship. This is why I think there could be national boundaries with its peoples, tongues, tribes etc just as Israel had allotment in its own land for each tribe. The tribes of the earth do the same thing. But as I said earlier, these nations are not God centered. I think when you see the nations of the world God centered, truly there will be only 1 kingdom and Christ reigns over the world where nations do his laws, his judgements and follow his instruction in righteousness.
People are constantly compared to water in scripture. And a sea is a giant body of water. But it’s salted and not fresh. It’s polluted and made up of many types of fish. It’s waves roar and it’s floods drown. Simply put, I believe there will always be an ocean. But the waves will no longer roar when the lion and sheep lay down together. The floods will be removed when taught by living water. There will be no more foaming of the water for all will know the Lord.
It’s a beautiful description of peace on earth.
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Post by matthew2423 on Feb 21, 2020 10:37:54 GMT -6
Well, I suppose there is some comparisons. Perhaps it’s semantics. Take a look at Daniel 2 referencing the 4th beast of the sea. 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. So God’s kingdom covers all the current kingdoms that make up the statue of gold, silver etc. and breaks them like chaff. We also have other passages in the minor prophets that talk about nations will go up and worship. This is why I think there could be national boundaries with its peoples, tongues, tribes etc just as Israel had allotment in its own land for each tribe. The tribes of the earth do the same thing. But as I said earlier, these nations are not God centered. I think when you see the nations of the world God centered, truly there will be only 1 kingdom and Christ reigns over the world where nations do his laws, his judgements and follow his instruction in righteousness. People are constantly compared to water in scripture. And a sea is a giant body of water. But it’s salted and not fresh. It’s polluted and made up of many types of fish. It’s waves roar and it’s floods drown. Simply put, I believe there will always be an ocean. But the waves will no longer roar when the lion and sheep lay down together. The floods will be removed when taught by living water. There will be no more foaming of the water for all will know the Lord. It’s a beautiful description of peace on earth. Gotcha. Like I mentioned in the Alcorn quote, it’s possible that the “oceans” on the New Earth could be large freshwater lakes. Also, the nations are going to bring their glory into the New Jerusalem. It’s possible that they could bring their cultural treasures into the New Jerusalem as either tribute to King Jesus or as gifts to people of other nations. Honestly, I can’t wait to live in the New Jerusalem on the New Earth. I know it’ll come soon enough, but with just the utter darkness and craziness of the world, my patience for the New Earth coming gets smaller and smaller. I just have to trust God’s promise that it will come soon enough.
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Post by venge on Feb 21, 2020 11:05:48 GMT -6
Well, I think we all are excited and wanting to be there. But many of us can see the darkness growing today. It is obvious it’ll get worse before it gets better. Hard times are coming, but he who endures unto the end -the same shall be saved.
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Post by matthew2423 on Feb 21, 2020 12:31:38 GMT -6
Well, I think we all are excited and wanting to be there. But many of us can see the darkness growing today. It is obvious it’ll get worse before it gets better. Hard times are coming, but he who endures unto the end -the same shall be saved. I know, but as a young man with special needs, and being 18 years old and being in a generation that what I feel like is an abomination to God, I can’t wait until the New Earth. I hope that the Lord considers my life to be faithful and enduring to the end, despite my many sins. I just hope that my Lord and Savior considers me worthy to help in His Kingdom or be a king in His Kingdom of a nation. Not to be selfish, but I hope that I get some sort of a leadership position in His Kingdom according to my faithfulness to Him.
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Post by venge on Feb 21, 2020 14:16:22 GMT -6
Well, I think we all are excited and wanting to be there. But many of us can see the darkness growing today. It is obvious it’ll get worse before it gets better. Hard times are coming, but he who endures unto the end -the same shall be saved. I know, but as a young man with special needs, and being 18 years old and being in a generation that what I feel like is an abomination to God, I can’t wait until the New Earth. I hope that the Lord considers my life to be faithful and enduring to the end, despite my many sins. I just hope that my Lord and Savior considers me worthy to help in His Kingdom or be a king in His Kingdom of a nation. Not to be selfish, but I hope that I get some sort of a leadership position in His Kingdom according to my faithfulness to Him. Haha. I understand. Even Paul had commented that he did more then all others before him to win Christ and that he’s running a race. So we all run and God will judge at the finish line. I think the hardest part is not knowing everything. It’s as if I need him to specifically tell me or others: Do X, Y and Z. And don’t do A, B and C. Then I need him to say here is a list of idols in your time; so I know what to avoid. We all want to please him and I think sometimes it’s feels hard distinguishing good from evil. As odd as that sounds, it takes time. Much patience with the HS guiding and a lot of study. I used to watch R movies and be a Christian. I thought I could handle it because I wasn’t saying the words. Then I read how if our eye is darkened, the whole body is darkened. I was allowing things contrary to Holiness in my house and my eye. Once I understood, I stopped it. We all grow at different times, but you should always be growing continually by watering yourself with the word (study), bathing in the sunlight (photosynthesis) of God for food, branching outwards towards others (evangelize), brining forth fruit (righteous deeds through newness of spirit), and protecting yourself from disease/bugs by carefully digesting sound doctrine, not just anyone’s meat. The whole process brings a fruitful tree whose top the beasts of the field want to gather under for shade. - I love OT poetry!!!!! There is no doubt in my mind, he will come. In my life or death, we will all stand before him one day.
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