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Post by EmilyJean on Jul 23, 2017 20:22:44 GMT -6
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord -1 Thess 4:16.
Does anyone believe that there will be a significant amount of time between the rising of the dead and the "we which are alive and remain" Christians before we meet the Lord in the air? And if so, do you believe there is a possibility that
we will see the dead rise as they did when Jesus died on the cross in Matthew 27:52 & 53. So what do you think about this, please share your opinion.
Matthew 27:52 -At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart,
and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.
They left the cemetery after Jesus’ resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people.
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 23, 2017 21:55:12 GMT -6
Excellent question, Emily! I have wondered about this myself. Strictly speaking, I don't know the answer. However, from the context of I Thess 4:16 which you quoted, I see the possibility of at least a brief pause between the two, such that we will actually see the dead rise first (if we're in a location to do so), and then we will go up shortly after. Yes, I think it's possible, though I could also see it being so sudden that there isn't enough time to react.
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Post by whatif on Jul 24, 2017 0:15:10 GMT -6
It's an exciting thing to think about, EmilyJean! I can't wait to find out!
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Post by mike on Jul 24, 2017 7:07:06 GMT -6
I had never thought of these verses in that manner. I had always put the two consecutively without a pause. I mean since it all is said to happen in the twinkling of an eye, i just assumed it was the dead rise first, then we which are alive and remain...How long will we remain? I must digress a tad...Saturday I passed the cemetary where my brother was laid to rest 6 months ago. I thought to myself "wouldnt it be "cool" if I could see him rise? I keep thinking to myself it would really amazing if we heard the trumpet and had like a couple minutes to actually realize it was about to happen. How our earthly bodies and minds would actually react or feel!? As I realize more and more that we are rapidly approaching the possibility of the Harpazo! I think about these things from a practical standpoint. I know I participated in another thread where we discussed the amount of people that will be missing in an instant. What I dont think we touched on was the amount of grave that MAY be opened. If the rapture is follows the same pattern as Matthew 27:52 then there will be millions of grave opened and unearthed. I'm off topic now
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 24, 2017 7:15:50 GMT -6
Yes, Mike! Wonderful thoughts. I am going to move this thread to the Rapture section simply for tidy housekeeping. If you look back in the Rapture section a while ago, you will find an earlier thread where we discussed the possibility of the graves being forcibly opened, or whether the bodies will rise in a more mystical or particulate fashion. unsealed.boards.net/thread/183/rapture-forcible-ethereal
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Post by yardstick on Jul 24, 2017 8:22:34 GMT -6
How cool would it be for there to be enough time between the raising of the dead and the harpazo of the living to see the dead walking about and interacting with the living before being taken up?
Talk about a 'zombie apocalypse'! haha
Not to mention what a witness that would be!
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Post by kjs on Jul 24, 2017 9:01:23 GMT -6
The majority of Rapture Movies I have seen; have had those raptured disappearing. Most movies showed clothes, glasses, and tooth fillings being left behind. If that scenario is correct, I assume knee replacements and hip replacements would be left behind as well.
One rapture movie had all those raptured as appearing to die – meaning the body being left behind as well. I was surprised by this particular movie (since it did not keep the traditional view of disappearing).
We do have verses like this….
1 Corinth 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality …
1 Corinth 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly "house" [i.e., our physical body] which is like a tent, is torn down, we have [the promise of] a building from God, a never ending "house" in heaven that is not made by human hands.
It sure sounds like our current bodies – are not actually used in the new bodies ….
Maybe, the director of the rapture movie I saw – that the old bodies are left – is actually onto something.
So what will happen to this OLD Body?
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 24, 2017 11:16:26 GMT -6
Well I can't be dogmatic on this, but it appears that God uses the actual molecules from our old body to make our new body--that we are transformed, as it were. His body was clearly missing from the tomb at His own resurrection, so I think that is the pattern we will see with the great resurrection--the actual body will be used.
So the question comes up, what about people who have their bodies cremated and sprinkled in the sea? What about people who die in horrific explosions and there are simply no remains to be found? What about those who are eaten by wild beasts, crabs, sharks, etc.?
I think that is part of what God addresses through Paul in II Cor. 5:1, which you have quoted there. No matter how bad it is, if a body isn't available intact, God will one way or another compensate for it. If the original molecules are so distributed throughout the world as to be untraceable--either God will trace them down wherever they happen to be--possibly resulting in some sharks that die from sudden internal injuries from having too many molecules ripped out of their cells-- or, God will compensate by constructing the body anew. He know the blueprint for each one of us, after all--He designed each one of our DNA, and He won't have too much trouble bringing it about.
I must say, speaking of DNA, I believe we will all still have our own DNA when we are resurrected, but our DNA, like our bodies, will likely be perfected. We will have a physical body, but it will transcend the normal laws of nature as we understand them now. Either our new body will do so by its very nature, or else we will be able to over-ride the laws of nature, as Christ did on multiple occasions even before He had His glorified body (walking on the water, etc.).
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Post by whatif on Jul 24, 2017 13:52:51 GMT -6
I was thinking about DNA, as well, watchmanjim! The Lord knows the number of hairs on our head and has named all the stars, so I have no doubt He also knows the DNA code for each person who's ever lived. Maybe that is part of the Book of Life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 15:29:12 GMT -6
The problem is, DNA varies across the body. The reproduction of cells causes small mutations in DNA, which eventually causes aging over time. Also, which molecules? Humans are like waves; we constantly change molecules, but we have the same form. Our skeletons are completely replaced after seven years. Which molecules would he use? Also, remember, once Jesus ascended, he was transformed into the form seen in Revelation. We might have bodies that use new, better ways to hold information than DNA. After all, we won't reproduce anyome, so God will have to change some things.
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 24, 2017 23:13:36 GMT -6
Good thoughts, Beloved, and again, we'll have to see!
But my suspicions (or hunch) is that DNA is important long-term, and that we will have perfected DNA at our glorifying at the resurrection.
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Post by yardstick on Jul 24, 2017 23:20:51 GMT -6
Does RNA change? I never was a biology guy...
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 24, 2017 23:39:39 GMT -6
Does RNA change? I never was a biology guy... Ha. Ok. Full disclosure time. I----never really was a biology guy either. I just play one on TV and internet forums.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 3:07:49 GMT -6
RNA is created from DNA, I think by a process called transcription (not 100% sure that's the name). That RNA is then used by ribosomes to manufacture proteins for the cell. So, if DNA changes, the RNA that is newly created is also changed.
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Post by kjs on Jul 25, 2017 7:00:07 GMT -6
RNA is created from DNA, I think by a process called transcription (not 100% sure that's the name). That RNA is then used by ribosomes to manufacture proteins for the cell. So, if DNA changes, the RNA that is newly created is also changed. Though by no means an expert, that is my understanding about RNA as well. In computer terms, DNA is the source code and RNA is the process code -- meaning RNA uses DNA to copy itself from (like reading into memory) and then RNA does whatever process it was designed to do.
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