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America
Jul 19, 2017 8:04:32 GMT -6
Post by kjs on Jul 19, 2017 8:04:32 GMT -6
Hi Mike I think you are missing my point ….
I am pointing out the USA is missing being NAMED in the Bible NOT because of some lack of recognition. As you point out many other countries are missing being named as well. Yes, the primary focus of the Bible when it comes to naming countries is the country of Israel – God’s People!
My point is right now (and the case for several decades now) the USA is a Super Power Country.
Other Countries get “BUY IN” from the USA before doing something (usually) – they also have second thoughts about going to war – without learning the possible reaction to the USA.
The World’s Economy survives on PETRO DOLLARS -- or the USA currency (one reason we have been able to have such a LARGE DEBT – though that might be coming to an end)
How many of the latest skirmishes have the USA military not taken part of?
You would think – if USA remains a Super Power – that any of Israel’s upcoming wars – would either have USA sanding with Israel (or possibly against her).
I suspect – that SOON (and very soon) – the USA is no longer going to a be a Super Power.
My overall point is the STATUS Quo of the USA being a Super Power --- is soon going away.
Does it mean USA will no longer exist? Does it mean something reduces us to a third world country?
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Deleted
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America
Jul 19, 2017 8:10:01 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 8:10:01 GMT -6
While I don't have a fault with people asking, and kicking around their ideas...my heart is with yours Mike. I know KJS is just talking out loud about some ideas. He's been consistently good member and balanced. But I don't see America anywhere in the Bible either other then the similarities of its behaviors and blessings as indicated in the Bible under cursings and blessings. I go with God wherever that takes me!
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Post by mike on Jul 19, 2017 8:24:18 GMT -6
KJS - Probably...I think I understand the theme you are getting at as the US does influence the majority of the (if not whole) world in some way shape or form. Whereas a country like Trinidad/Tobago, not so much. Therefore with the vast influence, we will likely no longer have that same affect on the world in months/years ahead, what is the fate of the USA? That is a good question...(if i got it that time)... I do believe that as Israel is Gods focus, any major calamity could in fact land (pun intended) here in the US. Whether that is Yellowstone, fallout from Nibiru or North Korea the end is coming an the entire world will be a different place, USA not exempt. Perhaps Nibiru is in a fact a major player in the end times. God protecting Isreal, wouldnt any Wormwood, meteor, asteroid or other falling celestial body fall in a place far enough from there to not devastate? Food for thought.
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Post by mike on Jul 19, 2017 8:31:08 GMT -6
Unfortunately we certainly do deserve God's judgement. We are close to becoming Sodom if we're not already. Notwithstanding the LGBT agenda (which represents about 3-4% of the population) Children being led to be "genderless" or "trans", what have we become? GOD FORGIVE US!! Luke 17:2 "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
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Post by delo63 on Jul 19, 2017 8:47:14 GMT -6
Hello Mike,
I do agree with it seems like most of Daniel 11 was fulfilled by Alexander and Antipas. However, I believe that Daniel 11 was a sealed prophecy for the end times. Daniel 11 specifically shows the uprising of the antichrist and how he will obtain his power. The roots of the kingdom where the antichrist will arise is what is explained in Daniel 11:1-20. However in Daniel 21 the antichrist takes charge and it explains his exploits. As we are aware that the antichrist will not gain power by wars, but by deception in the political field. He will arise to power from negotiations and the like, not by military means. I will explain below
This is what Daniel 11:20 says, His successor will send out a tax collector to maintain the royal splendor. In a few years, however, he will be destroyed, yet not in anger or in battle.
then Daniel 11:21, He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty. He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue.
If we see in Daniel 11:21 the story changes to instead of talking about multiples different kings, it instead talks about only one. What points out immediately that this is the antichrist is 11:21, he will invade the kingdom through intrigue, not by military might. Sounds like a treaty? or a political arrangement?
In Daniel 11:22-23, Then an overwhelming army will be swept away before him; both it and a prince of the covenant will be destroyed. 23 After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power.
As we see this is still talking about the same person, he will barter a treaty or agreement, most likely the one we come to know that starts the tribulation. He will destroy an overwhelming army, my speculation it will be destroyed without a battle. His rise of power starts with this treaty not before. That is why I don't believe we know the true antichrist as he is hidden.
in Daniel 11:24 When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time.
Again this is still referring to the same person, I believe the one he will invade Israel or possibly the untied states in these 2 verses. Again this is speculation as I don't know the exacts, but what I do know that these verses are describing the antichrist.
in Daniel 11:25-30, With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of the South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him. 26 Those who eat from the king’s provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle. 27 The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed time. 28 The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country. “At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.
As shown above I believe this to be world war 3 that is coming soon. However we still note it is still referring that person that was introduced in Daniel 11:21.
in Daniel 11:31-35, “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered. 34 When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them. 35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
As we see now the AOD and it is still referring to the same person. I believe that Daniel 11:21-31 represents the first half of the tribulation with detailed explanations of what the antichrist will be accomplishing.
in Daniel 11:36-40, “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. 38 Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his ancestors he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.[d]
As we see now in the above passages the antichrist now reveals himself to be above God and goes on the attack. And notice he will be successful until the time of wrath. What wrath is this? Jacobs! Then we see him distributing the lands, possibly to the 10 kings creating the 10 kingdoms after the 3rd world war.
In Daniel 11:40-45, we see the leading up to the great war of God and Magog and we see his final destruction by Jesus!
Again I don't know the exact specifics but I can tell you with 100% certainty that in Daniel 11:21-45 it clearly describes one person and that person is the antichrist, think of this as a summary of what he will be up to during the tribulation. Daniel also breaks it up from the first half of the tribulation to the final half.
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America
Jul 19, 2017 10:25:33 GMT -6
Post by mike on Jul 19, 2017 10:25:33 GMT -6
delo63, very possible in your assessment. Not saying youre wrong, but please consider the history behind this in that Antiochus fulfilled what you refer to (if you havent already). Antiochus is clearly an Anti-Christ type and perhaps a foreshadow of things to come.
One thing I have learned (recently). I'll make a very general statement too, so please realize this is not exclusive or comprehensive. The vast majority of OT prophecies refer to the OT leading up to and include the birth, life, death & resurrection of our Lord. There are only a small amount of those which have yet to be fulfilled. Therefore when studying Daniel, most of the prophetic verses have been completed, most. Notwithstanding, we have our types/anti-types showing us things to come, but fulfillments have mostly already happened.
Again, not a comprehensive listing but a general theme.
Mike
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America
Jul 19, 2017 13:17:54 GMT -6
Post by delo63 on Jul 19, 2017 13:17:54 GMT -6
Hello Mike,
I do agree that Antiochus did fulfill some of these prophecies and people write off Daniel 11 as mostly fulfilled. I believe the reason that this is this way is because simply at that time it seemed like a perfect fit. There is a reason the book of Daniel was sealed until the end. If you look at Daniel 10 and 12 along with 11 they all speak of the same events, it is showing us the events that must take place and who will orchestrate those events.
However after careful reading and listening it is clear to see that the abomination of desolation has not happened to date. If it did the world would of ended thousands of years ago. The fact that the abomination of desolation is discussed here and the narrative never changes it is always the same "he" that is referred to all the way back from verse 21, that shows us that this is a future prophecy.
Wouldn't it make sense for the devil to want us to think that Daniel 11 was already fulfilled, so that when he does fulfill it the masses will be fooled to call him god. just a thought.
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America
Jul 19, 2017 14:22:14 GMT -6
Post by watchmanjim on Jul 19, 2017 14:22:14 GMT -6
Valid questions, Mike.
Regarding whether it's important to find the US in the Bible, I'll just say that since certain Bible passages, especially in Revelation, do seem to present a picture of global, rather than local-only events, we who live in the (seemingly) most powerful and influential country in the world today would think it strange if we, as a nation were not mentioned in these passages.
Regarding most of Daniel's prophecies having taken place already in the past, please understand that there is not a consensus in the prophecy-studying world about that topic. Some see it as you do, mostly already fulfilled, and others see it as some various ratio of already-fulfilled : not-yet-fulfilled. We have a lot of older threads on this board delving into various issues, especially one about Daniel 7, where we look at that in great depth.
The concept of multi-fulfillment prophecy is one that I finally began to wrap my head around two or three years ago, realizing that some passages in the Bible have more than one meaning to the same statement, and that there are certain repeating patterns that can occur as history unfolds.
As for Bible authors writing about lands they never heard of--they would not do so, unless God inspired them to do so--and that is definitely possible. China does seem to be mentioned by (ancient) name once in the Bible, and was probably known to the Middle East ancients. But remember that the Bible--all of it--is the inspired Word of God, and God is fully capable of inspiring His authors to write of things they had no prior knowledge of, and even things that they still did not understand even after they wrote it. In fact, there seem to be multiple occasions of this type of thing happening.
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America
Jul 19, 2017 14:27:47 GMT -6
Post by mike on Jul 19, 2017 14:27:47 GMT -6
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America
Jul 19, 2017 14:53:51 GMT -6
Post by delo63 on Jul 19, 2017 14:53:51 GMT -6
hey mike,
I checked out his website and I agree with some things he says but I don't agree with his interpretation of the events that he thinks mirrors the events in Daniel 21-31. I know that the antichrist would have to do the peace treaty and then be revealed and that has not happened yet. However, he does have so decent thoughts, but then again I won tknow for sure until it happens.
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