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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 7, 2017 9:26:34 GMT -6
Yes, the "New Covenant" is the most important. I think there could be additional ones as well, that are not nearly as important, but are more on the order of the Palestinian Covenant found in Deuteronomy.
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 7, 2017 9:41:09 GMT -6
I'll have to research the "Palestinian" covenant. Never heard of it. I'm mostly interested in any covenant that has to do with Christ's blood sacrifice for forgiveness of sins. Jeremiah 31 is one of them, Hosea 2 is another (indirectly). I'm taking lots of notes on Hosea at the moment. I know there are more I need to find. So much reading, so little time.
And with Rev12Daily's article on the linking of all the places with "women in labor", there is just so much to discover. I feel our time is short.
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Post by Gary on Aug 7, 2017 10:47:07 GMT -6
Well if you look back through Scripture, not every covenant speaks to salvation directly. I would say that the salvation covenant of the cross will never be removed, upgraded, enhanced, downgraded, etc. But other covenants could be made regarding the way things operate during the Tribulation, and then again, a new way of doing things during the MK. Yes, this I agree with! Also, there is a ton of Scripture that makes clear and/or infers that Christ's sacrifice was the only thing that saved sinners in the OT. I can't imagine that changing in the Trib or Millennium. I'm a dispensationalist, but I have to disagree with hyper-dispensationalism, which teaches a sort of returning to the law after the rapture. Everyone who has ever been saved was saved through faith and that includes pre-Mosaic law (Abel, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc) and post-Mosaic law (David, Rahab, Moses, etc). My understanding of Scripture is that the Third Temple is allowed, but not sanctioned by God. Isaiah 66 shows God's displeasure with building a Temple and offering animal sacrifices. The 144,000 sealed Israelites will not be aboard the Third Temple train. The next sanctioned Temple is Ezekiel's Millennial Temple. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 7, 2017 22:55:00 GMT -6
That's exactly how I see it, Gary. There were MANY covenants in the Old Testament books. Some include:
Creation Covenant
Marriage Covenant
Adamic Covenant
Noaich COvenant
Abrahamic Covenant
Mosaic Covenant
Palestinian Covenant
Davidic Covenant
Jonathanic/Davidic Covenant
New Covenant
And possibly a few others.
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Post by whatif on Aug 7, 2017 23:35:11 GMT -6
There is to be a covenant with animals, according to Hosea 2:18... In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the creatures that move along the ground.
I suspect the covenant has to do with Isaiah 11:6-9... The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 7, 2017 23:52:40 GMT -6
I forgot about that one!
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 8, 2017 6:15:59 GMT -6
That's exactly how I see it, Gary. There were MANY covenants in the Old Testament books. Some include: Creation Covenant Marriage Covenant Adamic Covenant Noaich COvenant Abrahamic Covenant Mosaic Covenant Palestinian Covenant Davidic Covenant Jonathanic/Davidic Covenant New Covenant And possibly a few others. Thanks watchmanjim. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 8, 2017 9:50:17 GMT -6
The covenant between David and Jonathan is a very interesting one, as it is primarily between two men and their households forever. David personally upheld his end of the covenant long after Jonathan was dead, by sheltering and caring for Jonathan's offspring, notably Mephibosheth, who was lame.
Whether it's related or not, it could also have to do with the interesting fact that the tribe of Benjamin (of which, Jonathan was a member) stayed with the tribe of Judah after the split.
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Post by yardstick on Aug 8, 2017 11:13:23 GMT -6
Well. Let's see. Both are describing an Army. Both are saying the army has the likeness of horses. Both are the only books in the entire Bible that contain "pillars" and "smoke" together. Both contain imagery of the army "Over mountaintops they leap" vs "Leaping upon the mountains"... Both are the only books in the entire Bible that contain "leap" and "mountain" together. Both contain imagery of darkness: What part of SoS are you reading? the part you quoted says nothing of horses, or leaping over mountaintops. The 60 men being an army is debatable. Both do mention night. You are incorrect about pillars and smoke, that's a reference to Exodus, where the children of Israel followed a pillar of smoke by day to the promised land (another picture of Christ). The Parable of the Ten Virgins is ultimately about those Jews who missed their Messiah. It is not necessarily an end-time parable about Christians who aren't Christian enough, like many preachers like to scare their congregations with. If you want to find the rapture in SoS, look at SoS 2:8-13 - which is one of the main reasons i don't like saying that Sept. 21-23 is the rapture, because those verses may indicate late April-early May. This passage looks like what Christ would say to his Bride, around May-August 2024... Assuming the Church is the Body of Christ and Israel is the Bride? |
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 8, 2017 11:46:29 GMT -6
LOL Found this for most of the main Bible Covenants: www.gotquestions.org/Bible-covenants.htmlThat will help... I noticed that this site also agrees that the New Covenant is inclusive of Jeremiah 31:31-34 which is GREAT! I'll have to see where that site stands on the Hosea 2 covenant. I believe Isaiah 11 and Hosea 2 are describing the exact same covenant, and Peter quoted Hosea 2 when describing the Church (Jews and Gentile believers in Christ). |
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 8, 2017 11:57:42 GMT -6
socalexile Just a clarification on ("pillars" vs "pillar") of smoke: Yes a (singular) "pillar of smoke" is in Judges 20:40 But (PLURAL) "pillars of smoke" is only found in Song of Solomon 3:6 and Joel 2:30. Exodus has a (singular) "pillar of fire". Numbers has (singular) "day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night" Nehemiah has (singular) "in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire" Very cool! The pillars of smoke is (plural) only in SoS and Joel 2...! Revelations 10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire" (PLURAL) "pillars of fire"...! Interesting!
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Post by socalexile on Aug 8, 2017 19:37:33 GMT -6
socalexile Just a clarification on ("pillars" vs "pillar") of smoke: Yes a (singular) "pillar of smoke" is in Judges 20:40 But (PLURAL) "pillars of smoke" is only found in Song of Solomon 3:6 and Joel 2:30. Exodus has a (singular) "pillar of fire". Numbers has (singular) "day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night" Nehemiah has (singular) "in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire" Very cool! The pillars of smoke is (plural) only in SoS and Joel 2...! Revelations 10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire" (PLURAL) "pillars of fire"...! Interesting! The contexts of SoS and Joel are still the issue with making these two passages talk about the same thing. |
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 9, 2017 9:21:01 GMT -6
Hmm. Something else interesting about (John 11) related to (Ezra 3 and Nehemiah 7-8) Edit: also (Hosea 1):
1) I find it fascinating that Caiaphas, the high priest, made this prophecy about Jesus...also the same guy that planned Christ's death... Interesting!
2) Very similar wording to Ezra 3 and Nehemiah 7-8
3) Very curious wording "in one" vs "as one man"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New Testament
John 11
49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all,
50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.”
51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,
52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Old Testament
Ezra 3
1 And when the seventh month had come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered together as one man to Jerusalem.
-----------------------------------
Nehemiah 7
73 ... When the seventh month came, the children of Israel were in their cities.
Nehemiah 8
1 Now all the people gathered together as one man in the open square that was in front of the Water Gate;.... on the first day of the seventh month
----------------------------------- (edit: found another potential one!!!)
Hosea 1
11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head; And they shall come up out of the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel!
------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Thoughts:
LOL ... "they shall come up out of the land"....I bet they shall..!!! Right up out of the ground! HAHA!
Now lets remember that the 1st and 2nd Temples on earth are a "shadow" or "copy" of the heavenly one created by God!
Hebrews 8
4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;
5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”
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Post by uscgvet on Aug 12, 2017 7:52:19 GMT -6
Another one:
Ephesians 1
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
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