A Barna Group 2016 survey

The statistics about "good works" are interesting, kjs, as are the statistics about whether Christians should be evangelizing.

If only 1 million people were alive at Noah's time, it would be .00008

And with Gideon... as high as 1.36

still low numbers in my opinion, but God - in history-likes low numbers as a rule to demonstrate his power. I wonder if the rapture is another way he will use low numbers to be glorified(?). Narrow is the gate, He said .....

Ok, let us say 30% of those in the USA – have no clue what it means to be a believer in Jesus Christ. According to the survey 27% were other faiths or no faith, so add an additional 3% who grew up with a family which went to church – but have not been back is not a stretch.

Here is the kicker if you take that 30% who has no clue (and therefore somewhat understandable that they imagine “good deeds” earn your way in) That still leave 25% -- who claim to be Christian – who also believe one can earn their way into heaven.

Now if we assume that the 42% who say you cannot earn your way into heaven are closer to the truth and therefore are potentially true believers. So we have the potential of 42%, or put another way a Maximum of 42% that could go in the rapture.

Now, I know some felt my 20% figure was too high of an estimate – but I am old school and believe NONE of those called will be left behind.

Romans 8: 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that the Son[ might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God's Grace is greater than we can imagine -- once called HE will never let Go...

SO, yes I do think that someone who called out to Jesus Christ to be saved at the age of ten and then preceded to live the most immoral life from then on – will still be saved – though through fire. God’s love and Grace cannot be “out done”.

I am reminded of Paul said to the Corinthians – when discussing the man who was having sexual relations with his Stepmother … “5 turn this man over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.”

It appears -- Paul felt that God will allow such a one to die too soon -- but the individual was still part of the Body.

Once saved always saved. Howevee, I highly doubt a truly saved person would become an atheist or Muslim; God works too powerfully through your life.

By their fruits ye shall know them. If an individual does not bring forth fruits indicative of salvation, they do not truly know the Lord, and never did. There are many false confessions of faith--those that are done by the "fearful and [/or] unbelieving." I have two sisters and a brother in this category--they made a profession of faith at a young age, but have totally renounced Christ, God, and the Bible since then. I believe their confessions of faith were false confessions--they did not truly put their faith in Christ for salvation. Instead, they did it out of fear, peer pressure, desire to please their parents, etc.

Sometimes a "salvation experience" like I described can grow into a true salvation.

I believe the parable in Luke 13 has at least two meanings. One regards the nation of Israel and its unbelief at the time of Christ. The other, I believe applies to the individual:

Luk 13:6  He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 
Luk 13:7  Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 
Luk 13:8  And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 
Luk 13:9  And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. 

This also goes along with the parable of the sower. I believe that out of the four soils, only the one, the "good" soil, describes people who truly are saved. The thorny and stony ground seeds spring up (have a "salvation experience" and claim to be believers in Christ) but the test of time shows that they bear no fruit, therefore, they don't count for eternity--they aren't saved and never were. Only the ones that bear fruit will be gathered into the barn of the Lord.

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Doing the will of the Father is twofold-- to accept the salvation offered by Christ, and then to bear fruit.
Bearing fruit does NOT save a person. No, not at all. It is the evidence that the person is saved.



This is how I understand it.

I believe you are right, Whatif--in fact I have seen that too. A true believer can stray, but if they're truly saved already, God will either bring them back to Him, or take them early.

In many cases we really can not tell for sure. But as a general thing, "by their fruits ye shall know them."

Galatians 5:22-23 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.

There is Spiritual Fruit, not Fruits – the way I understand it, the Holy Spirit (who indwells all believers) helps direct a believer through life. If allowed, the Spirit will be producing fruit through the Believer. Said Fruit may or may not be observable to others. It appears it is even possible the Believer themselves will be unaware of some fruit that was produced. Such as when Jesus described people feeding and clothing the least of these, represented feeding and clothing God himself.

Review the list again – how many of those are actual “see-able”?

How do you see LOVE? You do not, you might see it demonstrated through a particular event – but the LOVE itself is invisible. Same with all the rest, you might see them demonstrated, but you would not see them on their own.

But even seeing something demonstrated – does not prove the existence of a Fruit.

For example – take Self-Control ……

I personally never learned to like the taste of alcohol, even though I did drink some in College – it was never my thing to do. Later when I became sick and one of the medicines I am required to take – forbids using alcohol, I did not bat an eye. So I have not consumed any alcohol in over ten years. Even my sister-in-law; asked one time – how do I stand it not consuming any alcohol. But to me it is not a big deal – for I never like it to begin with. Someone, who does not know me – simply observing – might think I have great Self-Control.

Whereas, I have an old friend – who loves the taste of alcohol. When he was instructed to cut back on consumption of alcohol – he literally had a hard time doing so – and that was only to cut back.

So comparing the two of us – which of us is actually have Self-Control?

This is one reason why I am very leery of stating someone is or is not a Christian (a True Believer) – based on a few observation points I may have of them.

If someone says they have believed upon the finished work of Jesus Christ – than I will conclude they are a true Believer.

Maybe that makes me naive -- but I try to think the best of people.  (though I do not always succeed)