Post by servantofthelord on Jul 17, 2021 0:15:56 GMT -6
Ok, so this can get ugly quickly, so let's try to be adult. I suppose the question I'd like to know, before getting too far down the road, is if the church, (meaning the individual members of the body of Christ, as a group) not specific denominations or "churches", worshipped something other than God the creator, or placed their faith in other than Him as an overall rule. Or even lets say, had more faith in man than in God. Wouldn't that constitute an apostate state? Let's look at the definitions origins and meaning dating back to the 1800s ......
APOS'TATE, noun [Gr.]
One who has forsaken the church, sect or profession to which he before adhered. In its original sense, applied to one who has abandoned his religion; but correctly applied also to one who abandons a political or other party.
APOS'TATE, adjective False; traitorous.
For the sake of this post, considering the above definition, I'd say that is a definite yes. Now lets do a little common sense mental workshop, scriptural style, shall we? First let's remind ourselves of a thing or two.
(Mathew 7:17) "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
(Mathew 7:18) "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
(Mathew 12:33) "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
(Mathew 21:19) Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered.
Mark 11:13-14) Seeing at a distance a fig tree in leaf, He went to see if perhaps He would find anything on it; and when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" And His disciples were listening.
(Luke 3:9) "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
(Luke 6:44) "For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.
(John 15:2) "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
(John 15:4) "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless * it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
(Romans 7:5) For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
(James 3:18) And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
(Jude 1:12) These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
(Psalm 14:1) The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
(Proverbs 12:14) A man will be satisfied with good by the fruit of his words, And the deeds of a man's hands will return to him.
My apologies for quoting so many scriptures at one sitting, but I wanted us all to be clear one the fact that an atheist, or anyone who doesn't believe in God the Father, doesn't produce good fruit. So, by extension and obvious common sense, those who place their faith in the fruit of said people are lumped into the same category. You can't feed on rotten fruit and be healthy, to borrow a metaphor. I hope we all agree and know this. It is all through scripture in many ways and many teachings.
Now let me ask a simple and easy question. How many of the scientists that developed our wonderful modern technology, would you say, are Christians? I'll let you ponder that while we do a little word study.
Technology - a word meaning technical knowledge. Does technical knowledge come from God? Or from man? Now before you jump the rails, one step at a time here. I know your justifying all kinds of things already, I did too.
Lets's try another, Artificial intelligence - if it is by nature artificial, can it even come from God?
Alright let's examine the facts a bit. Technology is with almost no serious exceptions, developed and invented by atheists who don't bear God's fruit. They have worked for years to invent artificial intelligence, which is basically a machine without a soul that is able to at least mimic thoughts and actions of men. The fruit of this endeavor is what we are using right now. It is in your cell phones and televisions and literally connects the world. If we were to instantly erase all modern technology this instant, the world would go into the dark ages and people would be starving to death and killing one another.
Now I doubt at this point you are seriously denying that the world as a whole, including the church, relies on technology. putting your trust in something and relying so completely on it is nearly a textbook case of putting faith in something. We don't look at it this way, because it would mean to admit something ugly about the world and about the part we all play in it. But never the less, we can argue the fine points of justification, but the bare facts are not going to change.
I do however think that there is ways, like this site, to use an evil thing to do good work. But to lie to ourselves about where and how the vast majority of our technology comes from, is just a fools errand. Most of our medical, and other advances over the ages and today, are offshoots and bi-products of military experiments and war products. I've watched hundreds of documentaries explaining this going back for the last hundred years or more. Usually going back several hundred years. This is another consideration.
We are suppose to be in opposition to the evils in the powers and principalities. But we just love all the goodies they give us. Like smart politicians always have, they provide just enough good to hide all the bad. We all know it. It has been going on since the Romans. Christ was opposed to it and taught against it. The first Christians didn't want any of Romes perks and didn't accept them when offered. They just asked for fair treatment. We have gone far far beyond that, long ago.
So, I ask you, knowing what the scriptures teach, and what the world, including the church, lives. Is the church apostate? Obviously there is a lot more we can add, like sexual tolerances and all manner of violence and other things that are looked away at as well as the way we immodestly dress and the fact we have so many forms of greed and etc. But I'd have to say, even in a generous thought, we are well into and have been apostate as a whole, for some time now.
APOS'TATE, noun [Gr.]
One who has forsaken the church, sect or profession to which he before adhered. In its original sense, applied to one who has abandoned his religion; but correctly applied also to one who abandons a political or other party.
APOS'TATE, adjective False; traitorous.
For the sake of this post, considering the above definition, I'd say that is a definite yes. Now lets do a little common sense mental workshop, scriptural style, shall we? First let's remind ourselves of a thing or two.
(Mathew 7:17) "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
(Mathew 7:18) "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
(Mathew 12:33) "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
(Mathew 21:19) Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered.
Mark 11:13-14) Seeing at a distance a fig tree in leaf, He went to see if perhaps He would find anything on it; and when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" And His disciples were listening.
(Luke 3:9) "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
(Luke 6:44) "For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.
(John 15:2) "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
(John 15:4) "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless * it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
(Romans 7:5) For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
(James 3:18) And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
(Jude 1:12) These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
(Psalm 14:1) The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
(Proverbs 12:14) A man will be satisfied with good by the fruit of his words, And the deeds of a man's hands will return to him.
My apologies for quoting so many scriptures at one sitting, but I wanted us all to be clear one the fact that an atheist, or anyone who doesn't believe in God the Father, doesn't produce good fruit. So, by extension and obvious common sense, those who place their faith in the fruit of said people are lumped into the same category. You can't feed on rotten fruit and be healthy, to borrow a metaphor. I hope we all agree and know this. It is all through scripture in many ways and many teachings.
Now let me ask a simple and easy question. How many of the scientists that developed our wonderful modern technology, would you say, are Christians? I'll let you ponder that while we do a little word study.
Technology - a word meaning technical knowledge. Does technical knowledge come from God? Or from man? Now before you jump the rails, one step at a time here. I know your justifying all kinds of things already, I did too.
Lets's try another, Artificial intelligence - if it is by nature artificial, can it even come from God?
Alright let's examine the facts a bit. Technology is with almost no serious exceptions, developed and invented by atheists who don't bear God's fruit. They have worked for years to invent artificial intelligence, which is basically a machine without a soul that is able to at least mimic thoughts and actions of men. The fruit of this endeavor is what we are using right now. It is in your cell phones and televisions and literally connects the world. If we were to instantly erase all modern technology this instant, the world would go into the dark ages and people would be starving to death and killing one another.
Now I doubt at this point you are seriously denying that the world as a whole, including the church, relies on technology. putting your trust in something and relying so completely on it is nearly a textbook case of putting faith in something. We don't look at it this way, because it would mean to admit something ugly about the world and about the part we all play in it. But never the less, we can argue the fine points of justification, but the bare facts are not going to change.
I do however think that there is ways, like this site, to use an evil thing to do good work. But to lie to ourselves about where and how the vast majority of our technology comes from, is just a fools errand. Most of our medical, and other advances over the ages and today, are offshoots and bi-products of military experiments and war products. I've watched hundreds of documentaries explaining this going back for the last hundred years or more. Usually going back several hundred years. This is another consideration.
We are suppose to be in opposition to the evils in the powers and principalities. But we just love all the goodies they give us. Like smart politicians always have, they provide just enough good to hide all the bad. We all know it. It has been going on since the Romans. Christ was opposed to it and taught against it. The first Christians didn't want any of Romes perks and didn't accept them when offered. They just asked for fair treatment. We have gone far far beyond that, long ago.
So, I ask you, knowing what the scriptures teach, and what the world, including the church, lives. Is the church apostate? Obviously there is a lot more we can add, like sexual tolerances and all manner of violence and other things that are looked away at as well as the way we immodestly dress and the fact we have so many forms of greed and etc. But I'd have to say, even in a generous thought, we are well into and have been apostate as a whole, for some time now.
