servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 13, 2021 20:01:59 GMT -6
Time is always a tricky thing when we try to use it in the bible, dates are hard to make match up in the earlier days, days are not always 24 hour periods, weeks are not always 7 days, etc. Time gets even more tricky when we try to reconcile our modern archeological findings with the bible.
It is the favorite target for the evolutionists to point to. It also trips us up trying to figure "end times" things as well. I was having an interesting conversation some time back, which started with Adam and Eve and got to trying to reconcile dating the earth, etc. Of course God was a big subject as he created time. That brought to memory an article I'd read somewhere with a guy hypothesizing about God and time. There have always been those that believe in predestination, and those who believe in free will as the determining factor, It always comes down to Gods knowing the beginning and ending both and at the same time. I honestly can't recall all the article, so I won't claim any of this as my insight, but I got to thinking about it recently, trying to picture God's ability to do this. I'm probably late to the party here, but I just never really tried to put this idea into a "picture" in my head that I could grasp. I just always accepted that He is all powerful and all knowing and thats that. To the point, let me propose a picture for you.
Since God created time, He doesn't adhere to it, he exists "outside" of it. The rules of time and space do not apply. So, I imagined God sort of existing in a dimension or plane or whatever word you wish to use. And since he is outside of time looking in, he can see the very beginning and the very ending in the same instant. Picture time as a series of pictures, overlapping. God can look through as deep or as shallow as He wants, and stop at any place in time and see anything with a thought. So, He can predetermine those who are going to be in the book of life and those that aren't. Not by any random means, but because He can see what choices we will and have made before we make them. To Him, today and the first day are the same as tomorrow and the last day.
Now, apply that in other ways, like prophecy. Revelations is difficult to understand and impossible to time, because John was shown a glimpse into this concept, visually. Can you imagine what that was like for the likes of Isiah? or any of the ancient prophets? John had the most pliable imagination, because in his time, theory and philosophy and the world had begun to grasp inanimate ideas better, but trying to describe and point to time, once shown through the spirit of the Lord, must have been both terrifying and amazing!
Now consider creation. what if 6 days is not 14 hour periods, since man wasn't created till the end? What if God's first days were a million years to us now? we could explain so much from just accepting the possibility. The earths age, geologically. And if Adam and Eves ages were in years other than we understand, or any of the time pre flood, when the "sons of God" came to the earth and committed evils with what ever they chose. This would explain dinosaurs and apemen and all the things that evolutionists point to to prove creation wrong. Since writings were handed down, and ages were known by those who wrote them, if the earlier man had a different concept of time, then it wouldn't translate always the same. which helps explain places where women are said to be married and having kids at 12 and the like.
Just putting it out there. Not a fast truth or even a certain one, but it does in some sense make alot of things make more sense. we have defined and kept time better with age. So now things are more certain. But past, present and future were perhaps not always measured by the same degrees.
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Post by mike on Jul 14, 2021 6:56:49 GMT -6
servantofthelord - question (although I think its just a typo) do you mean 24 hour? If not could you clarify. There are few good resources for this topic that I have found. Answers in Genesis is one of those, also "Is Genesis History" is another. In some of the AiG resources I have found that they postulate that we cant go back and measure things that were before. Since we dont have a written record outside the bible, we can only make assumptions. One of the major points of contention I have found is that science of today looks to apply the same standards as today to the distant past. For example the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second (or something like that), but we assume that light has always travelled at that speed. Since we've only been able to measure the speed of light for a few centuries, assuming the speed is or always has been constant is a "sticky wicket". I saw a video by Chuck Missler where he provided the analysis of those who have measure the speed over the last centuries and the results of the data showed that the speed was slowing down. Thats an interesting concept now isnt it? If the speed of light was faster in the distant past then it is today things would pan out quite differently. So it is possible the day was a 24 hour day but the 24 hour period is really not due to the speed of things occurring during that 24 hours. WHOA! Found the 8 min video - worth it 
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Post by mike on Jul 14, 2021 6:59:25 GMT -6
Another really good one on time. Clear your head and prepare for it to explode
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Post by stormyknight on Jul 14, 2021 8:54:11 GMT -6
servantofthelord , "I AM" Ex. 3:14 on your views of the age of the Earth, the YT channel that mike, listed called " Is Genesis History?" is great. It has some wonderful videos about how the age of the Earth being 6000 years old and how Noah's flood are all entirely possible and provable. Dr. Andy Woods has a whole series of sermons on video about Genesis that you might find interesting.
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 14, 2021 14:20:29 GMT -6
Thanks guys. mike,, it was a typo. LOL stormyknight,thanks for the info, but it really isn't my views, but rather a musing or thoughts I was having after a conversation. I don't view the bible as being mistaken, I just realize that possibilities for time not being constant are expressed throughout scripture, so I occasionally consider what that could mean in an overall, or in particular circumstances. Soon to Christ is far from what we would call soon. Days are not always days we measure by, etc. I'm just pondering whether time in scripture is as understood as we sometimes think. It was men that wrote it, though inspired, they obviously didn't have the complete knowledge of God and therefore could only write to the best of their understanding/capabilities. The laws of time are constant to us, we believe, or have proven as best a human can, but God keeps the only time that matters and He makes the rules, but is not controlled by them or even exists within them as we do. |
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andrew
Layman
Still here...till the end.
Posts: 99 
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Post by andrew on Jul 15, 2021 9:48:08 GMT -6
You should also consider that every major 'scientific' fraud, especially evolution, has made it a point to specifically undermine the Word of God.
Why would science make a point to be in opposition to the truth, even to the point of fabricating evidence and just outright lying, if men were honestly seeking the truth?
Remember, Satan is god of this age.
He is the father of lies.
He hates the fact that the Bible is true and works tirelessly to make sure you don't believe it.
Always start with the assumption that man is in error and the Bible will make alot more sense.
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Post by mike on Jul 15, 2021 10:50:58 GMT -6
Just a gentle reminder as this topic can veer off course. Backing up what andrew touches on the forum rule is above. Its okay to discuss the topic of evolution or other falsities in light of scripture, but not to use the falsity to try to disprove the biblical text or insert something that it doesnt say. |
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 15, 2021 11:45:39 GMT -6
Just a gentle reminder as this topic can veer off course. Backing up what andrew touches on the forum rule is above. Its okay to discuss the topic of evolution or other falsities in light of scripture, but not to use the falsity to try to disprove the biblical text or insert something that it doesnt say. Okay, didn't intend this to come close to actually questioning the validity or truth of scripture. Historically, the scriptures listed "days" which were then thought to be 24 hr. periods till later in scripture some of those days were explained to be much larger periods of time. What people previously understood in scripture, has changed with scripture. I'm not pointing out anything "wrong" or "erring" in scripture, or at least I'm not stating a fact that is not borne out in the scriptures themselves. I hope that is clear. I'm only trying to point out that what we understand time to represent was even misunderstood at times by those in the era it was written. Jesus himself pointed this out about other established truths believed by the Jews. Daniels 70 weeks as I understand, is no longer believed to be actual weeks, but years. But if discussing this topic is somehow forbidden by the "understanding" of what is literal and what is historically interpreted, I'm confused at where we stand when the two don't align. But it is not worth causing problems about. There are plenty of other topics to address. I'd like to very respectfully point out that this topic aside, interpretation is not universal in nature, and has grown historically. flexibility within the "understanding" is necessary, provided you do not directly contradict or veer off from scriptural truth. ( such as Paul himself says the oxen law was not actually for oxen, but for man, though it directly says it is for oxen.) If literal and historical is the absolute line, where does that leave room spiritual interpretation? If this question too is beyond bounds, I apologize in advance, but is an honest question. As to this topic specifically, I'll happily drop it in the interest of peace and unity. |
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Post by mike on Jul 15, 2021 11:54:03 GMT -6
servantofthelord - the reminder was not directed at you at all. Please dont take it that way. I just want to ensure that we tread lightly on this topic while still being able to discuss possibilities of how, when, why (we know the WHO). Personally I enjoy discussing this as it is not ever taught in school, promoted on-line or in MSM and only the false religion of evolution is. I believe that as a Christian we should be able to defend our faith using science to support what the Word says.
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 15, 2021 12:39:36 GMT -6
servantofthelord - the reminder was not directed at you at all. Please dont take it that way. I just want to ensure that we tread lightly on this topic while still being able to discuss possibilities of how, when, why (we know the WHO). Personally I enjoy discussing this as it is not ever taught in school, promoted on-line or in MSM and only the false religion of evolution is. I believe that as a Christian we should be able to defend our faith using science to support what the Word says. No worries, I began the topic and assumed it applied to me, since only three of us commented and one you listed by name, indicating they were following rules, I thought. The remainder is only you and another moderator, I thought. In any event, though you all have been kind enough not to point out that I was formerly here as lionofgod, and it was a difficult period for me, when I zealously made a lot of scriptural error, which I'm ashamed of. I'm a bit sensitive to the topic of rule breaking. I have no desire to repeat my blunders and have no excuse for being misled the first time into the garbage I allowed myself to get sucked into. I'm just grateful to be allowed to participate and fellowship here again, so forgive my assumptions. I'm sure you can see why I made them. |
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andrew
Layman
Still here...till the end.
Posts: 99
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Post by andrew on Jul 19, 2021 19:15:16 GMT -6
Limiting discussion is PRECISELY what has led Christianity to its current weak state.
Limiting debate is the exact tactic Satan has used to create this problem.
If scripture cannot withstand open assault, no amount of censorship will do the job.
The enemy has an open forum in all places.
We do not.
If one does not agree with the current traditions of men, they are threatened with excommunication.
If my faith was so weak that I refused to defend it on my own territory, I would be ashamed.
In the real world, and the few uncensored platforms that still exist on the internet, you will have to defend all these things, " One self-existent God, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the virgin birth, the full deity of Christ, the substitutionary atonement, the literal and physical resurrection of Christ, salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, a literal and future bodily resurrection of the dead, and a historical-grammatical interpretation of Scripture. Premillennialism, a literal rapture of the Church to Heaven, and a literal/historical interpretation of Genesis 1-11 are also considered core doctrines."
Limiting debate on the rapture essentially excommunicates the majority of people who DO trust in the shed blood of Jesus for their salvation. The literal interpretation of Genesis would immediately put Space in the crosshairs. Is everyone here ready to renounce NASA as the antichrist organization it was founded as?
No.
Therefore, it is a very hypocritical policy.
You will never convert a Muslim if you cannot defend the Trinity, Incarnation, deity of Christ, ...basically ANY of the things that could get you banned from this site.
Is it essential that everyone be a biblical scholar to post here?
People have doubts.
People have false beliefs.
If we do not address them, who will?
I know you mean well, Mike, sorry to unload on you, but the hour is getting quite late and this is a publicly available site that people come to to learn about the second coming. Their baggage will inevitably come with them.
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Post by mike on Jul 20, 2021 4:40:42 GMT -6
andrew - the site is not owned by me, I am following the establsihed rules. Following order is something our world today has a problem with. When someone doesnt like the rules they challenge them and try to defeat them. Without some form of order we have to accept everything. While debate can be healthy and productive, there has to be a guideline for that or any discussion to happen otherwise its just people typing away. Sorry you dont agree. Go ahead and have the conversation, youre welcome to it. But the guidelines for posting on this site include Gen 1-11 as historical facts. If you cannot adhere to that in the dialogue, take the conversation off board into email.
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Post by Gary on Jul 20, 2021 8:42:53 GMT -6
Limiting discussion is PRECISELY what has led Christianity to its current weak state. Limiting debate is the exact tactic Satan has used to create this problem. If scripture cannot withstand open assault, no amount of censorship will do the job. The enemy has an open forum in all places. We do not. If one does not agree with the current traditions of men, they are threatened with excommunication. If my faith was so weak that I refused to defend it on my own territory, I would be ashamed. In the real world, and the few uncensored platforms that still exist on the internet, you will have to defend all these things, " One self-existent God, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the virgin birth, the full deity of Christ, the substitutionary atonement, the literal and physical resurrection of Christ, salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, a literal and future bodily resurrection of the dead, and a historical-grammatical interpretation of Scripture. Premillennialism, a literal rapture of the Church to Heaven, and a literal/historical interpretation of Genesis 1-11 are also considered core doctrines." Limiting debate on the rapture essentially excommunicates the majority of people who DO trust in the shed blood of Jesus for their salvation. The literal interpretation of Genesis would immediately put Space in the crosshairs. Is everyone here ready to renounce NASA as the antichrist organization it was founded as? No. Therefore, it is a very hypocritical policy. You will never convert a Muslim if you cannot defend the Trinity, Incarnation, deity of Christ, ...basically ANY of the things that could get you banned from this site. Is it essential that everyone be a biblical scholar to post here? People have doubts. People have false beliefs. If we do not address them, who will? I know you mean well, Mike, sorry to unload on you, but the hour is getting quite late and this is a publicly available site that people come to to learn about the second coming. Their baggage will inevitably come with them. Hey brother, we've discussed all these things at great length: the Trinity, deity of Christ, etc. The rules explicitly say that is ok. Questions are welcome. Unbelievers are welcome. But we have three basic rules, so that this can be a welcoming place for FELLOWSHIP, which is far more important than debate. When we first started we had no rules at all and it was a free-for-all. It was very difficult to moderate. I researched other Christian forums and found virtually all of them had some rules. Most had many rules. Having only three rules is an attempt to keep some order and fellowship, but also allow for lots of discussion. But to be clear, this discussion board is intended to be more about fellowship as we see the Day approaching. Rules #2 and #3 are about treating one another in a Christlike way. Rule #1 is set up to say what we, as a body of believers, believe and have agreed to. These are things that can definitely be discussed, but are not up for debate here. Blessings. |
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Post by Red Sky at Morning on Jul 20, 2021 11:52:53 GMT -6
I found this discussion between Barry Setterfield and Chuck Missler very interesting….
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servantofthelord
Truth Seeker
Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.
Posts: 164
Favorite Verse: Anything from John
Favorite Song: Feelin Good!- Nina Simone
Favorite Animal: Blue, my mini schnauzer
Favorite Food: potatoes
Dream Vacation: To actually go on one, never been
Profession: Artist/Poet/Carpenter/Servant
Denomination: Servant of all
I'm From: All over
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Post by servantofthelord on Jul 20, 2021 19:01:25 GMT -6
The literal interpretation of Genesis would immediately put Space in the crosshairs. Is everyone here ready to renounce NASA as the antichrist organization it was founded as? No. Not everyone here is brother, but I have no problem with it. The vast majority of people have no clue where the tech they use comes from, or who developed it and why. Anyone who does a serious study into the conception of NASA, where the science and scientists came from, what else they were involved in, and how they got there free tickets to prosperity, would not be so keen on our entire "space program" or what came from the fruit of that tree. Funny that the same people that hate the NAZIs, love the things they provide. Our country gave a free pas to anyone that had technical knowhow, regardless of what they did before. It was more important to be first than be right. The American way! |
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