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Post by boraddict on Jun 29, 2021 17:59:11 GMT -6
I am going to address Chapter 8 because that is where I am at in reading this book. The introduction was concluded at Chapter 6, and following was Chapter 7 as the first chapter in the body text. Don't know for sure, but that is the way it seems to me. The way that I read scripture is to look at the number of verses in the chapter and in this case Chapter 8 has 22 verses. Then I find the chapter center and it is Verse 11. I do realize that the people who broke the Bible into chapters and verses may have gotten things off occasionally; but most of the time they have gotten it right. So I just accept that they got it right and go right to the center of the chapter. Please notice that Jer. 8:11 speaks about those saying peace, peace, when there is not peace. So, then I read Jer. 8:10, 12 to see what is going on. The Lord states that everyone is dealing falsely (v. 10), and that the are not ashamed (v. 12); and for that he is going to cast them down with those who fall among them; their attackers. Often I do not read any further into the chapter because from these few verses I can conclude that I know what the chapter is about. But here in Jeremiah I have been reading each verse, so on to Jer. 8:9, 13. The Lord asks what wisdom is in the wise men because they are taken; because, they have rejected the word of the Lord (v. 9). He states further that He will consume them (v. 13). The Lord continues that their claim to the law is vain (Jer. 8:8), and he has put them to silence (Jer. 8:14). Because, their leadership is full of lies as stated in Verse 11. Jer. 8:7, the people do not know the judgment of the Lord and this reminds me of Isa. 1. Also, they looked for peace but no good came (Jer. 8:15). Now the chapter is getting interesting IMO. Because we have the reference to the horse in both Verses 6 and 16. So this is the big message in the body of the chapter; or at least one of them. Jer. 8:6 shows that they have not repented of their wickedness; no man saying what have I done as the horse, that is the enemy, rushes into the battle. They are simply awe struck as the enemy attacks. Yet, at Verse 16 we see Dan with snorting horses. This verse is so amazing that only a chiasmus will do it justice, as follows: "The snorting of their horses is heard from Dan; at the sound of the neighing of their stallions the whole land quakes They come and devour the land and all that fills it, the city and those who dwell in it. The first ting that I noticed was that Dan, being one of the 12 tribes, is the good guys. So, from Verse 6 the enemy that is represented as the horse, and this of course is Rev. 6:1-8, attacks. Then here in Verse 16 we see the good guys represented as Dan, that is the tribe not in the list of twelve in Rev. 7:4-8 having stallions, not just horses mind you, but the big strong stallions and the whole land quakes at their coming. This is the 144,000 and they come to devour the land and those who fill it, along with the city and those who dwell in it. And, from Verse 6, who came to dwell in the land and city but the enemy as designated by the horse. So, whereas the enemy came to attack (v. 6) the Savior then does a counter attack (v. 16). I love this verse. The above verse shows that all twelve tribes are represented as Dan, and this is why that tribe is not listed in Rev. 7:4-8. Also, Dan was mentioned a couple of times in the preceding chapters 1-7. Now it is clear that when Dan is referenced in the Book of Jeremiah it is about the 144,000. At Jer. 8:5 the Lord states that Judah refuses to return and at Jer. 8:17, I read the verse and laughed. Wow! Talk about the metaphors.  Another beautiful verse that restates the previous verse. The Lord is saying that the 144,000 will be sent to the people and they will not be charmed, but will bite. In other words, they come to Judah and will not put up with any nonsense. I hope from this you can see that the 144,000 do not originate from Judah; they are Christians. Okay, Jer. 8:4, 18, the Lord is instructing Jeremiah to tell Judah that they will fall and then arise (v. 4), that the Lord feels sorrow (v. 18). I am getting tired and wanted to stop but then I looked at Jer. 8:19 that requires a chiasmus as follows: "Behold, the cry of the daughter of my people from the length and breadth of the land: "Is the LORD not in Zion? Is her King not in her?" "Why have they provoked me to anger with their carved images and with their foreign idols?" So Jer. 8:3 tells us that death is the chosen option for the people (v. 3) and this is followed by the people again bringing the Lord to anger (v. 19). So get this, the enemy has attacked (v. 6), and the Lord has provided a counter attack (v. 16). And now the people want to know where the Lord is. Like, he is with you. Wow! So then the people turn to carved images once again and other idols. Like a slap in the face. Lots of metaphors in Jer. 8:2 with the sun and moon representing the Christians engaged in battle for Judah. This is followed by Jer. 8:20 that the harvest is over. Lastly, Jer. 8:1 that references the resurrection and this corresponds to Jer. 8:21-22 that the Lord is astonished that the people will not turn to him. So He asks the rhetorical question pertaining to Verse 1; why have my people not recovered, not been resurrected? Because, they will not turn to him. Hope you like my analysis of Chapter 8. |
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Post by boraddict on Jun 30, 2021 7:42:39 GMT -6
Chapter 9 is relatively easy to read, and the central theme appears to be Jer. 9:13-14.
"And the LORD says: "Because they have forsaken my law that I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice or walked in accord with it, but have stubbornly followed their own hearts and have gone after the Baals, as their fathers taught them."
The chapter contains a large number of metaphors intertwined with the literal. A good example of this is Jer. 9:21 that states:
"For death has come up into our windows;
it has entered our palaces,
cutting off the children from the streets
and the young men from the squares."
The first part of the verse shows that death has not come to them through the door but through the windows. So while death has come to them and this is a literal statement, that death has entered our palaces; it has come as a thief in the night through the windows. As a result the children can no longer play in the streets and the young men can not hang out in the squares.
Chapter 9 is an easy read from the beginning at Verse 1 through to Verse 26.
Chapter 10 contrasts false gods to the real God. The center of the chapter is Jer. 10:13.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 2, 2021 10:49:09 GMT -6
So I was getting kind of bored with Jeremiah; sorry about that. However, I glanced through Chapter 11 just briefly and at Verse 10 the distinction between Israel and Judah is quite clear where it states: "the house of Israel and the house of Judah." I mention this because there seems to be some confusion about Israel and Judah. Israel is not Judah and Judah is not Israel. To me it is a matter of being scripturally accurate, and we as scholars, and that his how I see everyone here at Unsealed, should be above the grade. I do realize that in conversations with Christians, they for the most part do not know this technical distinction. But we study this stuff and should be better, and more accurate in our conversations with each other. Like, if I were a plumber I would know the language of a plumber and the same holds true for musicians, doctors and so forth. So if we as a group could simply state Judah when we mean Judah and Israel when we mean Israel, and not intermix the two, then we would be moving towards a more advance communication with each other. I do realize that the waters are muddied a little because many believe that modern day Judah is comprised of the entire house of Israel. So why not just say Israel? Say Judah if the tribe or house of Judah, but say Israel if all tribes are included or if the reference is to only Ephraim and his camp. At Jer. 11:10 the verse references Israel as Ephraim and his group. It is easier to understand scripture if we know what is being said. Another thing I have noticed in Jeremiah, is that he uses the word "Jerusalem" to mean Israel - the northern kingdom - Ephraim and his group of tribes. Using the word "Jerusalem" as metaphor was also done in Isaiah. I was not going to say anything about this; but when Jer. 11:9 has the metaphorical application of "Jerusalem" and the very next verse highlights "the house of Israel" and "the house of Judah," then it is quite obviously out in the open for everyone to see. I have to smile each time I read Isa. 1:1 where this is done and it is like a giant red metaphorical flag waving at me. Like he is saying to me, "don't forget the metaphors." However, Jeremiah is very clever about this metaphor (Jerusalem) and uses it to appear quite literal as in Jer. 11:6 where he says "in the streets of Jerusalem." Like, I ask, why do that? I kept seeing this word chapter after chapter and could not discern what he was doing. It looked so literal but it could be metaphor I thought. And, yes it is metaphor but wow it looks so literal. And now the dead giveaway at Jer. 11:9-10 and I thank him for that confirmation. So beautiful! He uses this metaphor so brilliantly. In conclusion, Jeremiah uses both Israel and Jerusalem to metaphorically represent Ephraim. Another thing caught my eye in Chapter 11, and that is the reference to the lamb and ox in Jer. 11:19. Both of these represent the Savior. This becomes important in understanding the use of the metaphor "ox" in Ex. 1:10 that John changes to calf in Rev. 4:7. Both ox and calf are metaphors for the Savior. |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
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Post by rondonmonson on Jul 2, 2021 13:18:03 GMT -6
So I was getting kind of bored with Jeremiah; sorry about that. However, I glanced through Chapter 11 just briefly and at Verse 10 the distinction between Israel and Judah is quite clear where it states: "the house of Israel and the house of Judah." I mention this because there seems to be some confusion about Israel and Judah. Israel is not Judah and Judah is not Israel. To me it is a matter of being scripturally accurate, and we as scholars, and that his how I see everyone here at Unsealed, should be above the grade. Jeremiah was born about 50 years before Daniel and Ezekiel, in Ezekiel God stated He made the TWO STICKS ONE. So, God never wanted a divided Israel, thus he brought them back together as one it doesn't matter what we call them, God calls them the Whole House of Israel upon his return. Those we knw today as the Jews are indeed ALL Israel. As per Jeremiah, try reading Jeremiah 30, that is what Daniel references in Daniel 9 where he says I was reading the books of Jeremiah and praying for Israel, and the Angel Gabriel appeared unto me and told him this........the 70 year judgment against Israel has been timed by 7, so now, because of Israel's continued DISOBEDIANCE, that judgment has become 70 x 7 or 490 years of judgment. Thus the Decree that Daniel gives of 70 x 7 was originally a decree given by Jeremiah of 70 years. Its in Jeremiah chapter 25, but Daniel was interested in Jeremiah 30, that where Jeremiah decrees God will bring Israel back into their land after a 70 year punishment. So, if anyone is interested in why Daniel referred to Jeremiah in Dan. chapter 9, its because he was reading the Jeremiah 30 passage, trying to intercede for Israel. Trying to get God to give Israel back their nation/Jerusalem. Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. 3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: So, Jeremiah 25 and 30 are both an interesting read. In Jeremiah 25 we see the original 70 year decree, in Jeremiah 30 we see Gods promise to bring Israel out of Babylon and back unto Jerusalem after 70 years (He did) and in Daniel 9 we see Daniel uses Jeremiah 30, praying and REMINDING God of His promise to deliver Israel after 70 years (LOL, go Daniel go, a praying man of faith avails much) and God sending Gabriel unto Daniel telling him Israel had not yet repented, they even loved Babylon and didn't want to leave, thus their judgment was now timed by 7 from 70 years to 490 years, even though God was going to keep His promise and bring them back into their homeland, as the prophet Jeremiah foretold He would. |
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Post by boraddict on Jul 2, 2021 13:54:02 GMT -6
Thank you rondonmonson , There are two camps with regard to the divided house of Israel; 1) those who believe they are not divided and 2) those who believe they are divided. You are of the former and I am of the latter. Can you provide the verse for the above statements?Yes there is a whole house of Israel but that does not mean that the two parts are joined as one. Like, one house may have two people living in it; two parts. Thank you for this information and I will check it out when I have time. As I recall, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel were all living at the time of the Babylonian invasion. While Daniel and Ezekiel went into Babylon as captives, Jeremiah was held in high regard and free go wherever he wished. And after a stay under Neb.s appointed king, he then ended up in Egypt where he was killed. I think his right hand man was Barack, but just going off memory. I will try and find scriptural support for that information. |
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
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Post by rondonmonson on Jul 2, 2021 17:47:03 GMT -6
Thank you rondonmonson , There are two camps with regard to the divided house of Israel; 1) those who believe they are not divided and 2) those who believe they are divided. You are of the former and I am of the latter. Can you provide the verse for the above statements?Yes there is a whole house of Israel but that does not mean that the two parts are joined as one. Like, one house may have two people living in it; two parts. Thank you for this information and I will check it out when I have time. As I recall, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel were all living at the time of the Babylonian invasion. While Daniel and Ezekiel went into Babylon as captives, Jeremiah was held in high regard and free go wherever he wished. And after a stay under Neb.s appointed king, he then ended up in Egypt where he was killed. I think his right hand man was Barack, but just going off memory. I will try and find scriptural support for that information. Yes, we have absolute proof that when the people were brought back into the land from all the rest of the world that they were brought back as THE CHILDREN OF Israel, ONE STICK. The Children of Israel, not as Judah. Ezekiel 37:15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. So, God states through Ezekiel the Prophet that when He brings back His people, He will bring back the Children of Israel, not the house of Judah, but ALL Israel is brought back from the Gentile nations. That started in 1948 and continues, but its not just Judah, God says its the whole house of Israel He brought back. As per Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezekiel: Jeremiah was born in like 650 BC and died in 570 BC. Daniel was born in 622 BC and died in 538 BC Ezekiel was born in 622 BC and died in 570. So, Jeremiah was almost 30 years older than Daniel and Ezekiel. They wre teenagers when they were carried off to Babylon, Jeremiah was close to 50 years old. |
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Post by Natalie on Jul 2, 2021 18:10:43 GMT -6
I once heard something interesting about the book of Ezekiel chapters 36 and 37. In the years before 1948 there was an increase in rainfall and the land started producing more vegetation. Also, as more people returned to the land of Israel, the rainfall increased to match the need. Just as Ezekiel 36:8-10 says: 8 “But you, O mountains of Israel, shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to my people Israel, for they will soon come home. 9 For behold, I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. 10 And I will multiply people on you, the whole house of Israel, all of it. The cities shall be inhabited and the waste places rebuilt."
In 36:24 " I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land." And a little later on - they will eventually recognize not only their sin, but all that He has done for them.
Then the Holocaust took place. Ezekiel 37:1-14
11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.
Then 37:15-23 is the joining of the two houses into one and the bringing back into the land. WWII made it possible for the creation of the state of Israel and for fulfilling the promises God made.
21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.
Eventually they will have their true King ruling over them. His sanctuary in their midst forever (37:26)
But first, Ezekiel 38 will take place. Then they, and everyone around, will know that He is the LORD.
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Post by boraddict on Jul 2, 2021 19:22:05 GMT -6
rondonmonson , that is a beautiful argument and much better than I expected; however, don't you hate it when an argument that is so good, is rebutted with a however. However, Ezek. 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones. Ezek. 37:2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. Ezek. 37:3 And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord GOD, you know.” Ezek. 37:4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Ezek. 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. Ezek. 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD.” Ezek. 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. Ezek. 37:8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. Ezek. 37:9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” Ezek. 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. Ezek. 37:11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and sour hope is lost; we are indeed cut off. Ezek. 37:12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. Ezek. 37:13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. Ezek. 37:14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.” I Will Be Their God; They Shall Be My People Ezek. 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me: Ezek. 37:16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’ Ezek. 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become gone in your hand. Ezek. 37:18 And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ Ezek. 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. Ezek. 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, Ezek. 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. Ezek. 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. Ezek. 37:24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. Ezek. 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. Ezek. 37:26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. Ezek. 37:27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Ezek. 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” I set the chapter to a chiasmus to make it easier to look at. The central theme (vv. 14-15) is that Israel, both houses Judah and Ephraim, will be in their homeland and that Jesus will be their God (one King over them, v. 22) and they his people. Naturally, since Jesus is not the God in the homeland of Israel then this chapter is not yet fulfilled. Secondly, the time for this prophecy to be fulfilled is at the resurrection (vv. 1-13). Side Note: Joseph represents Ephraim (vv. 16, 19) and this supports my conclusion that Joseph is Ephraim in Rev. 7:8. Another point is that they will not defile themselves with idols and detestable things or with transgressions (v. 23). Since the people of the nation state of Israel are yet sinners and worship other gods, then this prophecy is yet to be fulfilled. Side Note: The false prophet Denver Snuffer claims to be this David (v. 24) although he uses the verses in Isaiah to support his claim. However, the word David is metaphor for the Savior IMO. Please notice in Verse 26 that Jesus is the sanctuary that is with them (Rev. 21:22). This is restated in the next verse (27). He restates that he as the sanctuary that is with them forever (v. 28). I think the verses you quoted from Ezekiel 37 did not include that the time of the prophecy's fulfillment is at the resurrection. So while your argument is exceptionally good it does not dissuade me from my position that the two houses of Israel are yet divided.
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
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Post by rondonmonson on Jul 2, 2021 20:06:58 GMT -6
rondonmonson , that is a beautiful argument and much better than I expected; however, don't you hate it when an argument that is so good, is rebutted with a however. However, Ezek. 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones. Ezek. 37:2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. Ezek. 37:3 And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord GOD, you know.” Ezek. 37:4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Ezek. 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. Ezek. 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD.” Ezek. 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. Ezek. 37:8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. Ezek. 37:9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” Ezek. 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. Ezek. 37:11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and sour hope is lost; we are indeed cut off. Ezek. 37:12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. Ezek. 37:13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. Ezek. 37:14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.” I Will Be Their God; They Shall Be My People Ezek. 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me: Ezek. 37:16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’ Ezek. 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become gone in your hand. Ezek. 37:18 And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ Ezek. 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. Ezek. 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, Ezek. 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. Ezek. 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. Ezek. 37:24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. Ezek. 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. Ezek. 37:26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. Ezek. 37:27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Ezek. 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” I set the chapter to a chiasmus to make it easier to look at. The central theme (vv. 14-15) is that Israel, both houses Judah and Ephraim, will be in their homeland and that Jesus will be their God (one King over them, v. 22) and they his people. Naturally, since Jesus is not the God in the homeland of Israel then this chapter is not yet fulfilled. Secondly, the time for this prophecy to be fulfilled is at the resurrection (vv. 1-13). Side Note: Joseph represents Ephraim (vv. 16, 19) and this supports my conclusion that Joseph is Ephraim in Rev. 7:8. Another point is that they will not defile themselves with idols and detestable things or with transgressions (v. 23). Since the people of the nation state of Israel are yet sinners and worship other gods, then this prophecy is yet to be fulfilled. Side Note: The false prophet Denver Snuffer claims to be this David (v. 24) although he uses the verses in Isaiah to support his claim. However, the word David is metaphor for the Savior IMO. Please notice in Verse 26 that Jesus is the sanctuary that is with them (Rev. 21:22). This is restated in the next verse (27). He restates that he as the sanctuary that is with them forever (v. 28). I think the verses you quoted from Ezekiel 37 did not include that the time of the prophecy's fulfillment is at the resurrection. So while your argument is exceptionally good it does not dissuade me from my position that the two houses of Israel are yet divided. Again, read the text. When God brought them back (verb) he did so as the Children of Israel. Not when He started ruling as King of Kings over them. And I think that happens a soon as they are brought back, they have one king in every situation since 1948, be that a President, Prime Minister etc. etc. etc. Israel is now one nation, the people who were toted off in the Diaspora were one nation also, there were never any lost tribes of Israel, God says so, he says he has saved 7000 men, that 7 (COMPLETENESS) x 10 or 1000 to emphasize MEGA 7 (Completeness) x 10 (COMPLETENESS) = ALL Israel whom I speak of via all the tribes. God can't (He could) come out and say there will be 4 million 422,321 people, He just says 7000 which means the complete number thereof that need not be quoted, the actual number doesn't have to be exact, its not germane to the point, plus God probably doesn't want to let Satan know how many it will be. here are other places that show God brings back the whole nation of Israel. God Bless, gotta run to the store, have a blessed night sister. |
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Post by boraddict on Jul 2, 2021 23:51:11 GMT -6
rondonmonson , I understand what you are saying but the text clearly states "Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel" (Ezek. 37:12). There is no ambiguity there and no need for interpretation. Israel that is Judah and Ephraim are brought to the land of Israel after the resurrection. This means that any gathering prior to the resurrection is not the fulfillment of this prophecy. Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. The text is about one King and that is Jesus and as the above verse shows it is after the resurrection. But like I said, there are two different perspectives on the two houses of Israel; those who believe the two are already brought together and those who do not. The following are the verses in context: Ezek. 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me: Ezek. 37:16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’ Ezek. 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. Ezek. 37:18 And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ Ezek. 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. Ezek. 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, Ezek. 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. Ezek. 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. The questions that should be answered are: 1) Is Jesus the God of the two houses, Judah and Ephraim, today. The answer is no. (v. 23) 2) Is one king over the two houses of Judah and Ephraim today. The answer is no. (v. 22) 3) Have the two houses Judah and Ephraim stopped defiling themselves with idols, detestable things, and transgressions today. The answer is no. (v. 23) 4) The phrase "in which they have sinned" (v. 23) means the two houses Judah and Ephraim have stopped sinning. Have they stopped sinning, and the answer is no. 5) Therefore, have the two houses, Judah and Ephraim been brought back together (v. 21), and I say no. Because, not only does the evidence (1-4) support that they have not been brought back together, but the chapter is about the time of the resurrection in which the two houses, Judah and Ephraim, are brought back together. IMO Check this out, a few years ago in my research into the LDS church they claimed that the two sticks were about the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I don't think so. However, they were right about one thing IMO. The two sticks pertain to writings (v. 16) that are about Judah and Ephraim in which the OT highlights the house of Judah after the split and the NT represents the house of Ephraim after the split. So let me tell you my analysis from years ago that the two sticks are the OT and NT and when Judah and Ephraim are brought together as Christians (v. 17), and the two sticks are in the hand (the Bible) then these verses are is fulfilled. So I do acknowledge that the OT and NT are the two sticks and they are brought together as the Bible in the hand. However, the other stuff of the chapter pertains to the resurrection of which is yet future IMO. Although, an argument can be made that since the OT and NT are in the hand (Bible) as the two sticks; and Jesus was resurrected as were others (some believe this), then the Chapter 37 prophecies were fulfill at the time of the Savior on the cross. That argument is much more credible than the claim that the tribes were brought back together at or after the Babylonian invasion which argument IMO is not as strong. And I have stated before that the house of Ephraim is the Christians. Therefore the NT is the stick of Ephraim in the hand of Jesus (Ezekiel, v. 16-19) and has been for 2,000 years. When Judah accepts Jesus at the time of his return and are converted, then the prophecy of the two sticks being brought together under Christ, represented in the chapter as Ezekiel, will have been fulfilled IMO. Post Script: I have just noticed that the "Son of Man" that Jesus often calls Ezekiel is in fact Jesus as the Son of Man (v. 16) and this supports my previous assertion that Ezekiel metaphorically represents the Savior in the above verses and chapter IMO. 1) the two sticks are in the Savior's hand before our eyes as one Bible; OT & NT (Ezek. 37:20). I do not know when the OT and NT were joined together. 2) then the gathering of the two houses can take place (Ezek. 37:21) 3) the gathering to the land of Israel began for Judah in 1948 4) the gathering to the land of Israel for the Christians may have also began 5) the two houses are not united into one with one God and this can only happen when the Savior returns IMO.
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Jul 3, 2021 19:06:20 GMT -6
rondonmonson , I understand what you are saying but the text clearly states "Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel" (Ezek. 37:12). There is no ambiguity there and no need for interpretation. Israel that is Judah and Ephraim are brought to the land of Israel after the resurrection. This means that any gathering prior to the resurrection is not the fulfillment of this prophecy. Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. The text is about one King and that is Jesus and as the above verse shows it is after the resurrection. But like I said, there are two different perspectives on the two houses of Israel; those who believe the two are already brought together and those who do not. The following are the verses in context: Ezek. 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me: Ezek. 37:16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’ Ezek. 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. Ezek. 37:18 And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ Ezek. 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. Ezek. 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, Ezek. 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. Ezek. 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. The questions that should be answered are: 1) Is Jesus the God of the two houses, Judah and Ephraim, today. The answer is no. (v. 23) 2) Is one king over the two houses of Judah and Ephraim today. The answer is no. (v. 22) 3) Have the two houses Judah and Ephraim stopped defiling themselves with idols, detestable things, and transgressions today. The answer is no. (v. 23) 4) The phrase "in which they have sinned" (v. 23) means the two houses Judah and Ephraim have stopped sinning. Have they stopped sinning, and the answer is no. 5) Therefore, have the two houses, Judah and Ephraim been brought back together (v. 21), and I say no. Because, not only does the evidence (1-4) support that they have not been brought back together, but the chapter is about the time of the resurrection in which the two houses, Judah and Ephraim, are brought back together. IMO Check this out, a few years ago in my research into the LDS church they claimed that the two sticks were about the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I don't think so. However, they were right about one thing IMO. The two sticks pertain to writings (v. 16) that are about Judah and Ephraim in which the OT highlights the house of Judah after the split and the NT represents the house of Ephraim after the split. So let me tell you my analysis from years ago that the two sticks are the OT and NT and when Judah and Ephraim are brought together as Christians (v. 17), and the two sticks are in the hand (the Bible) then these verses are is fulfilled. So I do acknowledge that the OT and NT are the two sticks and they are brought together as the Bible in the hand. However, the other stuff of the chapter pertains to the resurrection of which is yet future IMO. Although, an argument can be made that since the OT and NT are in the hand (Bible) as the two sticks; and Jesus was resurrected as were others (some believe this), then the Chapter 37 prophecies were fulfill at the time of the Savior on the cross. That argument is much more credible than the claim that the tribes were brought back together at or after the Babylonian invasion which argument IMO is not as strong. And I have stated before that the house of Ephraim is the Christians. Therefore the NT is the stick of Ephraim in the hand of Jesus (Ezekiel, v. 16-19) and has been for 2,000 years. When Judah accepts Jesus at the time of his return and are converted, then the prophecy of the two sticks being brought together under Christ, represented in the chapter as Ezekiel, will have been fulfilled IMO. Post Script: I have just noticed that the "Son of Man" that Jesus often calls Ezekiel is in fact Jesus as the Son of Man (v. 16) and this supports my previous assertion that Ezekiel metaphorically represents the Savior in the above verses and chapter IMO. 1) the two sticks are in the Savior's hand before our eyes as one Bible; OT & NT (Ezek. 37:20). I do not know when the OT and NT were joined together. 2) then the gathering of the two houses can take place (Ezek. 37:21) 3) the gathering to the land of Israel began for Judah in 1948 4) the gathering to the land of Israel for the Christians may have also began 5) the two houses are not united into one with one God and this can only happen when the Savior returns IMO. Christendom is not Ephraim. Israel is brought back as the whole house of Israel THEN.........THEN they repent or are Breathed on by God. There has been one nation in Israel long before the Diaspora. I don't know where this comes from, but a survey pointed out that up to 30 percent of todays pastors do not even understand that those living in Israel today are God's chosen people. As pastors, that frightens me tbh, they should know better. All one has to do is read the scriptures and its self evident that those in Israel now are the whole house of Israel. God even states that He was gong to bring them back for His names sake (not theirs) and THEN he was going to lead them back unto him. The Son of Man always refers to anyone born from a human. Angels refer to us as Son of Man when giving direction, Jesus is also known as Son of Man, but others besides Ezekiel were called Son of Man, its more like an idiom in the way its used. Ezekiel 36:16 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. So, God brings Israel back into their own land because of HIS Holy name, not for their sakes, of course its by His GRACE that were are delivered also in reality. So, God specifically states He brings the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel out of ALL the Nations...........THEN..........THEN, He cleanses them. Israel can't repent as a nation if they are spread all around the world, they have to be brought back to do anything as a collective unit. THEN God sprinkles them with water. We should know this by reading Zechariah 13:8-9, God cleanses Israel and the very next verse tells us in Zechariah 14:1 that the Day of the Lord has arrived, and that is in the middle of the 70th week. Ezekiel 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Israel are REBORN but the Breath (Spirit of God comes LATER).
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord. So, God clearly does this for His own names sake, and THEN (AFTERWARDS) Israel will know that He is the Lord God of old. (the one many still do not believe in to this day). Israel has religious peoples, but they are the same types who rejected Jesus for the most part. Most Israelis are probably secular atheists tbh. But God will reach them via the Two-witnesses He sends back at the 1335, just before the 1290 AoD. (at least 1/3 repent, that's 3-5 million people) Ezekiel 20:14-35 also shows God brought the Whole House of Israel back into the land for His own names sake. We already know from history that God doesn't require repentance first. God brought Israel out of Babylon yet Israel never repented, yet the 490 years of punishment carried on because, of course, they never repented. If they had repented, the 490 years of judgment would have been nullified. So, clearly God brings Israel back into the land before they repent. Moses didn't get to see the promised land, nor did many of his generation, they had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years, as a peoples they never repented but were still brought into the holy land. |
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Post by boraddict on Jul 3, 2021 21:12:44 GMT -6
Thank you rondonmonson , and ones belief is a very powerful thing. So while we disagree on these points of doctrine I am okay with that and I hope you are as well. I think your belief is more in line with traditional church doctrines and my belief is not. I believe that the house of Judah and the house of Ephraim are not yet joined together, that Christians are adopted into the house of Ephraim, and so forth. The interesting point of our discussion is to highlight these technical differences. I did not know that Ezek. 37 spoke about the resurrection and that the house of Israel (Judah and Ephraim) was to be gathered to the land of Israel after the resurrection. But that makes sense because we know the Lord comes to the earth and that the new city Jerusalem does as well (Rev. 21:2). It seems that the rapture is like Noah's ark lifting upon the waters. The people are taken up, the world cleansed, and the people are returned; something like that. It follows that the earth will have a capitol city; Jerusalem, and that the people will multiply for that 1,000 years. The earth will be populated with billions of saints. I do not know all the details but none of us do |
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Post by boraddict on Jul 5, 2021 6:22:24 GMT -6
One thing that I would like to mention about Ezek. 1, that contains the four living creatures, is that these are the four beasts of Rev. 4. And, since these four beasts are the four individuals that bring us the Book of Revelation, Rev. 1:1, then, the four living creatures (metaphor) are: God the Father, Jesus, the angel of the BofR, and John. It is all simply written in metaphor to represent these four individuals. This of course is my own personal opinion, but the point of the chapters is that these four are involved in the last days events. Another point of interest is that since Michael is involved in last days events, then it can be reasonably concluded that the angel involved in bringing us the BofR is Michael of Dan. 12. Please notice Rev. 10 that speaks about the angel coming to the earth. Just some interesting things that I see coming out of the Book of Ezekiel. Although, I tend to boycott that book because he changed the metaphors from what the other prophets are using. Not that it really matters, but that is why I did not know he had included the resurrection in Ezek. 37. Post Script: Another thing that I have been thinking about today is Ezek. 37, and Joseph Smith's linking of that chapter to the Book of Mormon. Sorry about saying those words on this site, but to me, Smith deserves credit for making the connection that Ezek. 37:15-20 is speaking about two texts. However, whereas Smith's position is that the two texts are the Bible and the Book of Mormon, my position is that the two texts are the OT and NT. A close examination of the verses will reveal that I have the most correct position in this debate. Ezek. 37:16 tells us that one stick is written upon for Judah, and the other stick is written upon for Joseph. Two books. Ezek. 37:17 tells us that they are to be joined together into one stick; as one in the hand. The OT and NT were joined together, like over a thousand years ago; and the LDS combined the Bible and Book of Mormon, like in the past one hundred years or so. Ezek. 37:18-19 restates the previous two verses. Ezek. 37:20 states that the two sticks will be one in the hand before the eyes of the people. The problem for the LDS is that Judah and his fellows do not accept the NT at this time. This means that Judah must first be converted prior to the remainder of the chapter. I win on that point alone. Because, the remainder of the chapter shows that Judah joins Ephraim at the time of the resurrection and not before. We know this is true because it is about Jesus coming to the last and final group of Judah. It is then that they convert and the dead are raised. Not before. That is, they convert and accept Jesus and then the resurrection begins. Thus, they accept the OT and then they accept the NT. For Ephraim as the tribe of adoption not only is the OT of Judah accepted, but also the NT; they are the Christians IMO. They have the two texts as one in the hand; the Bible. That is, in order for Smith to be correct then Judah must be converted to Christianity prior to the Savior coming; so that the Bible is counted as one book. However, we know that Judah does not convert until Jesus comes; and not prior to. You know, the seven thousand that convert at the time Christ comes to Jerusalem. So I win the argument because Judah is not converted to accept the Bible at this time; so, the Bible can not be counted as one book in the hand to Judah. That is, Judah as a tribe only accepts the OT. However, when they do accept the NT it will be time for the resurrection. Smith looses the argument because for Judah the OT is the one and only book of scripture. If Judah accepted the NT prior to this time then Smith would have won the argument. So not only does Judah not accept the NT but they certainly do not accept the Book of Mormon. Think about it, which of these two texts will Judah eventually accept 1) the NT that witnesses via apostles that Jesus is the Christ; or, the claim of the LDS that the Book of Mormon is the second witness of Jesus Christ. I mean, if Judah has not accepted the NT that is the first witness of Jesus Christ then how can they accept the second witness as put forth by the LDS? They can not. I win the argument that the two sticks in Ezek. 37 are the OT and NT. IMO. Also, this is all proved via the chiasmus that shows the center of the chapter is Ezek. 37:14 that is the resurrection. The chapter is all about the resurrection and not before, meaning, that the two sticks come together at the time of the resurrection. You see, Smith wins the argument if the book in the hand of Judah is the Bible. Meaning, that the book for Ephraim is the LDS Book of Mormon. However, if it is understood that the chapter is all about the resurrection then the application of the two sticks is at that time; and this is the key to understanding the chapter. When does Judah accept the NT? If it is at the time of the early church then Smith wins the argument. However, if it is at the time of the resurrection then I win the argument. The chiasmus proves that I am right. Smith was brilliant to argue from this chapter. Post Script: It was thirty years ago or more and I was visiting friends in the north visitors center on temple square in Salt Lake City. We were discussing that the arms of this large statue had been broken off months before and they could not understand why anyone would do such a thing. The statue was based upon a sculpture that had been made in Denmark as I recall. And, the then LDS false prophet said that it was the most accurate depiction of Jesus; a European with long hair. That makes me laugh; because, Jesus was not European and he did not have long hair. It's just that the art work down through the years have depicted Jesus with long hair to show that he was in rebellion to the traditions of the Jews. However, his hair in reality was no longer than anyone else's hair of that period. Then about twenty years ago the push of the LDS was to sell and make money from the little Christos idol. It stands about one foot tall and is an exact replica of the idol in the north visitors center. The LDS also have a standard print (painting) that they claim or tend to think Jesus looks like. To me it is very spooky to go into someone's home and see little idols and pictures on the wall supposedly of Jesus. In my home there are no idols of any type. I do have on one wall the ten commandments to look at, but no idols of any type in my home. Smith's argument is that Judah has accepted Christ at the time of the atonement and that the Bible is the one stick written on for Judah. I mean, his argument is that a second book other than the Bible must exist for Ephraim; right? So please consider my second point, as I referenced above, to again disprove Smith's argument. Setting the chapter to a chiasmus as follows: |
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Post by boraddict on Jul 6, 2021 19:02:58 GMT -6
Ezek. 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones.
Ezek. 37:2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry.
Ezek. 37:3 And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord GOD, you know.”
Ezek. 37:4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Ezek. 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
Ezek. 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD.”
Ezek. 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
Ezek. 37:8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.
Ezek. 37:9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”
Ezek. 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
Ezek. 37:11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and sour hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.
Ezek. 37:12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.
Ezek. 37:13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.
Ezek. 37:14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.” I Will Be Their God; They Shall Be My People
Ezek. 37:15-16 The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
Ezek. 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
Ezek. 37:18 And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’
Ezek. 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand.
Ezek. 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes,
Ezek. 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.
Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.
Ezek. 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Ezek. 37:24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes.
Ezek. 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.
Ezek. 37:26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.
Ezek. 37:27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Ezek. 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.
Another thing that I have noticed about this chapter is that the chiasmic structure appears to be A, B, A, B. I have encountered this type before and the verses link to together as follows: 1 to 15-16, 2 to 17, 3 to 18, 4 to 19, 5 to 20, 6 to 21, 7 to 22, 8 to 23, 9 to 24, 10 to 25, 11 to 26, 12 to 27, 13 to 28
Ezek. 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones.
Ezek. 37:15-16 The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
Ezek. 37:2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry.
Ezek. 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.
Ezek. 37:3 And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord GOD, you know.”
Ezek. 37:18 And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’
Ezek. 37:4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Ezek. 37:19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand.
Ezek. 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
Ezek. 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes,
Ezek. 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD.”
Ezek. 37:21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.
Ezek. 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
Ezek. 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.
Ezek. 37:8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.
Ezek. 37:23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Ezek. 37:9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”
Ezek. 37:24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes.
Ezek. 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
Ezek. 37:25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.
Ezek. 37:11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and sour hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.
Ezek. 37:26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.
Ezek. 37:12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.
Ezek. 37:27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people
Ezek. 37:13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.
Ezek. 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.
Ezek. 37:14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.” I Will Be Their God; They Shall Be My People
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Post by boraddict on Jul 10, 2021 19:13:07 GMT -6
I have been thinking about Ezekiel 37 for the past week or so, and it seems that this chapter is entirely about the resurrection. The sign that we are given in his chapter with regard to the resurrection is a type wherein one stick is written on for Judah and one stick is written on for Ephraim, and together they become one stick. This dynamic is easy to see because the OT was written and brought to us by the Jews (Judah). So although Ezekiel is himself holding the stick after it was written on for Judah, we in fact have that stick as a book in our hands. And along with the book from Judah, we also have the book from the Christians. These two books, the OT and NT are in our hands today. Thus, the sign for us as a type is not only the sticks in the hand of Ezekiel, but also the Bible that is in our hands today.
So the shadow for the above type that is the joining of the NT to the OT is the joining of Judah to Ephraim (the Christians). In other words, when Judah as a people becomes Christian then the resurrection begins; I think that is when Jesus stands upon Mt. Olivet. I am of the understanding that this occurs at the end of the 7 years and is not to be included with the rapture event. Because, the rapture is where the living are taken up, and the resurrection is where our deceased ancestors are taken from the earth. These two events may overlap, but do not necessarily begin or end at the same time. In other words, Ezekiel 37 is not the rapture.
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Another beautiful verse that restates the previous verse. The Lord is saying that the 144,000 will be sent to the people and they will not be charmed, but will bite. In other words, they come to Judah and will not put up with any nonsense. I hope from this you can see that the 144,000 do not originate from Judah; they are Christians.
